You can't do this. 45 baht tip on 8000 baht bill

[balo]

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Does anyone tip when there's a 10% service charge? I don't. Do the staff get this as an extra bonus or does the restaurant owner use it to pay their staff wages.

I'd really like to hear about this from someone in the business.

I have been in the hospitality business in the USA for 14 years and in Thailand for the last 22, and as I have been reading this topic I have read little that I did not expect. For me to try and explain my position as a career F & B worker to most of those who have posted here IMO would be as useless as most BMs here saying it is to tip a Thai. So I won't get too far into that.

To answer the question about who gets the 10% in Thailand I will say from my 22 years of experience in every type of venue from no star to 5 star, from BKK to Pats to Phuket, most hotel, restaurant and venue owners keep the better part of the 10% (if not all of it) and will pass on a few percentage to the staff (if any). So for those who think the staff are getting tipped too much because they see 10% on the bill as a service charge YOU ARE WRONG. FACT.

It is my concerted opinion that tipping is supposed to be an incentive for staff to work well, and IFO would prefer to not have the 10% automatically added to bill, and I would tip what I thought was commensurate with the level of service and quality of the rest of my meal (unlike so many who have posted to this topic). I tip between 10 and 20% dependent on many factors. If it is included and there is a large percentage of service charge related to having purchased some good bottles of wine then I will adjust my tip accordingly (lower) and keep in mind the level of overall service and food, rather than the total of the entire bill.

If I am in an upscale venue and they have already levied a 10% service charge, and I feel I got exemplary service, I will still add what I think would balance out to 15 or 20%. But I have to say that after being in the F & B business on 2 continents for a total of 36 years, most decent, hardworking staffs deserve to get paid a livable wage, deserve to get tipped when it’s commensurate with the level of service they have provided, and should be treated with respect.

But if they are lazy, unfriendly, poor servers, or request/demand to be tipped I do not and I will take the time to let them know why I have not. Many times I will tell management, leave comments on social media pages, or write to management about what I feel is deficient.

IFO thinks it’s all about having a balanced approach and i tip/comment accordingly.

Also keep in mind that in 99.99% of all TH F & B venues any tips/service charge, including those left on the table, will be shared by ALL the staff - front of the house, back of the house, parking/valet, bar, toilet, whatever. The only tip a worker may keep for themselves is the one placed directly into their hand, and most often they will still throw that into the general tip pool for all to share.

Further, to keep this all in perspective I do not tip when I eat on the street or in fast food places. But even in a typical TH shop house restaurant if the service was good I will leave a small tip relative to the cost of the meal, if there was a server, and the service was good/attentive. Being an expat of so many years I typically eat in the same places time and again, and like some BMs have stated, rational tipping goes a long way to getting consistnetly good service, food and beverages as time goes on.

If it’s a bar venue I tip the bartender so that they will remember what I like, how I like it, and so I get a fair pour each and every time. IFO think that those few baht go a long way for me to get what I want and to have a good time.

When I am at work training staff I spend a lot of time on trying to impress them with the fact that customers are not required to leave anything (10% included or not) and that the only way to encourage a customer to tip is to simply provide a high level of friendly professional service. But I also try to teach them not to expect that to yield results either (as shown by many posts on this thread) and to simply provide the best level of service that they can each and every time, and eventually that in and of itself should yield a reward for them.

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this board, having a service job and dealing with the public (and their high expectations and many times plantation attitude), and all the related stress that brings is most often not easy. People who do this work should be compensated accordingly like anyone else who wakes up each day and goes out to earn an honest wage.

And yes, I am an American, and that should have nothing to do with this discussion.

Tipping is not the norm in Thailand so your post doesn't make sense. Yes you'e American and still living like one. You must be a hi-so American expat not in touch with the average people in Thailand.

Edited December 13, 2014 by balo

[nithisa78]

correct. thank you.

[nithisa78]

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Does anyone tip when there's a 10% service charge? I don't. Do the staff get this as an extra bonus or does the restaurant owner use it to pay their staff wages.

I'd really like to hear about this from someone in the business.

I have been in the hospitality business in the USA for 14 years and in Thailand for the last 22, and as I have been reading this topic I have read little that I did not expect. For me to try and explain my position as a career F & B worker to most of those who have posted here IMO would be as useless as most BMs here saying it is to tip a Thai. So I won't get too far into that.

To answer the question about who gets the 10% in Thailand I will say from my 22 years of experience in every type of venue from no star to 5 star, from BKK to Pats to Phuket, most hotel, restaurant and venue owners keep the better part of the 10% (if not all of it) and will pass on a few percentage to the staff (if any). So for those who think the staff are getting tipped too much because they see 10% on the bill as a service charge YOU ARE WRONG. FACT.

It is my concerted opinion that tipping is supposed to be an incentive for staff to work well, and IFO would prefer to not have the 10% automatically added to bill, and I would tip what I thought was commensurate with the level of service and quality of the rest of my meal (unlike so many who have posted to this topic). I tip between 10 and 20% dependent on many factors. If it is included and there is a large percentage of service charge related to having purchased some good bottles of wine then I will adjust my tip accordingly (lower) and keep in mind the level of overall service and food, rather than the total of the entire bill.

If I am in an upscale venue and they have already levied a 10% service charge, and I feel I got exemplary service, I will still add what I think would balance out to 15 or 20%. But I have to say that after being in the F & B business on 2 continents for a total of 36 years, most decent, hardworking staffs deserve to get paid a livable wage, deserve to get tipped when it’s commensurate with the level of service they have provided, and should be treated with respect.

But if they are lazy, unfriendly, poor servers, or request/demand to be tipped I do not and I will take the time to let them know why I have not. Many times I will tell management, leave comments on social media pages, or write to management about what I feel is deficient.

IFO thinks it’s all about having a balanced approach and i tip/comment accordingly.

Also keep in mind that in 99.99% of all TH F & B venues any tips/service charge, including those left on the table, will be shared by ALL the staff - front of the house, back of the house, parking/valet, bar, toilet, whatever. The only tip a worker may keep for themselves is the one placed directly into their hand, and most often they will still throw that into the general tip pool for all to share.

Further, to keep this all in perspective I do not tip when I eat on the street or in fast food places. But even in a typical TH shop house restaurant if the service was good I will leave a small tip relative to the cost of the meal, if there was a server, and the service was good/attentive. Being an expat of so many years I typically eat in the same places time and again, and like some BMs have stated, rational tipping goes a long way to getting consistnetly good service, food and beverages as time goes on.

If it’s a bar venue I tip the bartender so that they will remember what I like, how I like it, and so I get a fair pour each and every time. IFO think that those few baht go a long way for me to get what I want and to have a good time.

When I am at work training staff I spend a lot of time on trying to impress them with the fact that customers are not required to leave anything (10% included or not) and that the only way to encourage a customer to tip is to simply provide a high level of friendly professional service. But I also try to teach them not to expect that to yield results either (as shown by many posts on this thread) and to simply provide the best level of service that they can each and every time, and eventually that in and of itself should yield a reward for them.

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this board, having a service job and dealing with the public (and their high expectations and many times plantation attitude), and all the related stress that brings is most often not easy. People who do this work should be compensated accordingly like anyone else who wakes up each day and goes out to earn an honest wage.

And yes, I am an American, and that should have nothing to do with this discussion.

Tipping is not the norm in Thailand so your post doesn't make sense. Yes you'e American and still living like one. You must be a hi-so American expat not in touch with the average people in Thailand.

Balo, with your over 3 million posts, I'm with you.

[mtnthai]

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Does anyone tip when there's a 10% service charge? I don't. Do the staff get this as an extra bonus or does the restaurant owner use it to pay their staff wages.

I'd really like to hear about this from someone in the business.

I have been in the hospitality business in the USA for 14 years and in Thailand for the last 22, and as I have been reading this topic I have read little that I did not expect. For me to try and explain my position as a career F & B worker to most of those who have posted here IMO would be as useless as most BMs here saying it is to tip a Thai. So I won't get too far into that.

To answer the question about who gets the 10% in Thailand I will say from my 22 years of experience in every type of venue from no star to 5 star, from BKK to Pats to Phuket, most hotel, restaurant and venue owners keep the better part of the 10% (if not all of it) and will pass on a few percentage to the staff (if any). So for those who think the staff are getting tipped too much because they see 10% on the bill as a service charge YOU ARE WRONG. FACT.

It is my concerted opinion that tipping is supposed to be an incentive for staff to work well, and IFO would prefer to not have the 10% automatically added to bill, and I would tip what I thought was commensurate with the level of service and quality of the rest of my meal (unlike so many who have posted to this topic). I tip between 10 and 20% dependent on many factors. If it is included and there is a large percentage of service charge related to having purchased some good bottles of wine then I will adjust my tip accordingly (lower) and keep in mind the level of overall service and food, rather than the total of the entire bill.

If I am in an upscale venue and they have already levied a 10% service charge, and I feel I got exemplary service, I will still add what I think would balance out to 15 or 20%. But I have to say that after being in the F & B business on 2 continents for a total of 36 years, most decent, hardworking staffs deserve to get paid a livable wage, deserve to get tipped when it’s commensurate with the level of service they have provided, and should be treated with respect.

But if they are lazy, unfriendly, poor servers, or request/demand to be tipped I do not and I will take the time to let them know why I have not. Many times I will tell management, leave comments on social media pages, or write to management about what I feel is deficient.

IFO thinks it’s all about having a balanced approach and i tip/comment accordingly.

Also keep in mind that in 99.99% of all TH F & B venues any tips/service charge, including those left on the table, will be shared by ALL the staff - front of the house, back of the house, parking/valet, bar, toilet, whatever. The only tip a worker may keep for themselves is the one placed directly into their hand, and most often they will still throw that into the general tip pool for all to share.

Further, to keep this all in perspective I do not tip when I eat on the street or in fast food places. But even in a typical TH shop house restaurant if the service was good I will leave a small tip relative to the cost of the meal, if there was a server, and the service was good/attentive. Being an expat of so many years I typically eat in the same places time and again, and like some BMs have stated, rational tipping goes a long way to getting consistnetly good service, food and beverages as time goes on.

If it’s a bar venue I tip the bartender so that they will remember what I like, how I like it, and so I get a fair pour each and every time. IFO think that those few baht go a long way for me to get what I want and to have a good time.

When I am at work training staff I spend a lot of time on trying to impress them with the fact that customers are not required to leave anything (10% included or not) and that the only way to encourage a customer to tip is to simply provide a high level of friendly professional service. But I also try to teach them not to expect that to yield results either (as shown by many posts on this thread) and to simply provide the best level of service that they can each and every time, and eventually that in and of itself should yield a reward for them.

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this board, having a service job and dealing with the public (and their high expectations and many times plantation attitude), and all the related stress that brings is most often not easy. People who do this work should be compensated accordingly like anyone else who wakes up each day and goes out to earn an honest wage.

And yes, I am an American, and that should have nothing to do with this discussion.

Tipping is not the norm in Thailand so your post doesn't make sense. Yes you'e American and still living like one. You must be a hi-so American expat not in touch with the average people in Thailand.

your assumptions about me (and tipping) are wrong. i have lived and worked here long enough (and paid my taxes) to have gotten my residency. i have been married to a Thai, and lived with Thais. i have worked with Thais in the hospitality business since 1992. i am not a wealthy man due to the fact that i have chosen to live in Thailand and work here for over 2 decades at a wage that is lower than i would have recieved back home. furhter, in no way have i ever been, nor do i aspire to be hi-so. on the contrary i am just an average guy with basic needs. i do however like to spend my hard earned money on a good meal with friends, and i have no problem tipping for good service.

some folks will spend a lot of money on football tickets, or aged whiskey, maybe clothes, or possibly a vehicle. to each his own, i prefer to spend my money on dining out becuase that is what makes me happy.

i do however come from the hospitality buisiness, i know how hard most Thais in the business work regardless of the level of venue, and i think they should be compensated for the work they do, and extra effort IMHO deserves a tip.

but these are just my opions, and you have yours, and i will leave what i choose in regard to a gratuity, and you can do the same, or not.

[a99az]

Isnt good service and nice food what you pay for anyway?. doesnt that ensure your return etc which is worth much more than any tip.

Personally, I find 8000 baht for a meal outrageous, but each to there own.

It would be if you where a Thai, the meal was 95B the other 7905B was foreigners tax (suckers tax) or ( you very rich tax )

[fey]

actually someplace serving expensive wine and bills like that most thais could never dream of spending is LESS deserving of a tip, not MORE deserving.

if you cant break the western habit give the tip to a homeless on the way home. they are nice to you too, does it matter why? they may not deserve it more but they need it more. whats with arguing about how much to tip a hiso redtaurant owner?

do you know how restaurants are run here snd employees treated? did you find a poor server? tips dont go jnto servers pockets here, does not work that way.

its about you tipping because you feel guilty sbout how much you just spent on one meal that equals five months rent to your server. poor natives.

dont sit there with a 300 baht glass of wine again you pompous ***!

Edited December 13, 2014 by fey

[losworld]

I really do have mixed feelings about tipping although I do it. One should really only tip if the service is good not out of necessity. I feel many owners of businesses rake in big profits from their meals then expect the patrons to hlep pay for their staff instead of them paying the staff a decent wage.

[canuckamuck]

And the higher the price of the meal, the tip goes up. That doesn't make sense either. I like Thailand where the tip is usually not dependant on the bill.

But like most things these days, regular Joes are paying for the excess of fools with more money than brains, trying to prove they got more sausage than the next guy.

[mtnthai]

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...
do you know how restaurants are run here snd employees treated? did you find a poor server? tips dont go jnto servers pockets here, does not work that way.

its about you tipping because you feel guilty sbout how much you just spent on one meal that equals five months rent to your server. poor natives.

dont sit there with a 300 baht glass of wine again you pompous ***!

I think that most people commenting on this topic are the ones who feel guilt, which is why they keep coming up with 101 reasons not to tip someone for good service. (tips and service charge are not the same).

my 2 decades+ of working in the f & b business in TH has shown me that the service charges rarely make it to the staff (or only a small amount) , but tips left after the fact most often do.

I have also found that no length of discussion will change a person’s mind on this topic. it like climate change denial or evolution Vs. intelligent design, it only becomes an exercise is name calling, slagging and posturing because everyone’s beliefs are set in stone and no amount of debate will change either side's views.

IMO there are 2 kinds of people when it comes to food and dining out, those who really appreciate it and will pay for good food, drink and service, and those who are simply going through the motions of consuming sustenance. Nothing wrong with that, we all have different priorities in life.

[WhamBam]

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...

do you know how restaurants are run here snd employees treated? did you find a poor server? tips dont go jnto servers pockets here, does not work that way.

its about you tipping because you feel guilty sbout how much you just spent on one meal that equals five months rent to your server. poor natives.

dont sit there with a 300 baht glass of wine again you pompous ***!

I think that most people commenting on this topic are the ones who feel guilt, which is why they keep coming up with 101 reasons not to tip someone for good service. (tips and service charge are not the same).

my 2 decades+ of working in the f & b business in TH has shown me that the service charges rarely make it to the staff (or only a small amount) , but tips left after the fact most often do.

I have also found that no length of discussion will change a person’s mind on this topic. it like climate change denial or evolution Vs. intelligent design, it only becomes an exercise is name calling, slagging and posturing because everyone’s beliefs are set in stone and no amount of debate will change either side's views.

IMO there are 2 kinds of people when it comes to food and dining out, those who really appreciate it and will pay for good food, drink and service, and those who are simply going through the motions of consuming sustenance. Nothing wrong with that, we all have different priorities in life.

At my favourite place when I first came to stay long term in Thailand, staff told me I was tipping too much and advised a maximum 40 Baht tip.

Most women I have taken out do the tipping. They tip an average of 20 Baht. Sometimes they will give 40 but 20 of that goes directly to the staff serving us.

That tells me it has nothing at all to do with guilt, but plenty to do with common sense.

[David48]

I think that most people commenting on this topic are the ones who feel guilt, which is why they keep coming up with 101 reasons not to tip someone for good service. (tips and service charge are not the same).

my 2 decades+ of working in the f & b business in TH has shown me that the service charges rarely make it to the staff (or only a small amount) , but tips left after the fact most often do.

I have also found that no length of discussion will change a person’s mind on this topic. it like climate change denial or evolution Vs. intelligent design, it only becomes an exercise is name calling, slagging and posturing because everyone’s beliefs are set in stone and no amount of debate will change either side's views.

IMO there are 2 kinds of people when it comes to food and dining out, those who really appreciate it and will pay for good food, drink and service, and those who are simply going through the motions of consuming sustenance. Nothing wrong with that, we all have different priorities in life.

I wrote this in the other tipping thread ... but here, it seems relevant also.

This is one take on it ... it's an observation, it's a generalisation, not a rule.

If you are from the USA, tipping is engrained in your mindset.

Indeed, your goodwill with your tip forms indirectly part of the wait service staff's salary.

The USA minimum wage is USD 7.25 an hour.

Service staff are reliant on tips to top up their wage.

So, when someone from the States travels ... they will tip ... it's their mindset.

Nothing wrong with that, they are doing what comes naturally.

Of course, not everyone is the same ... it's a generalisation, not a rule

Where, in Australia and many other countries, tipping is not part of the Culture.

The Aussie minimum wage is AUD 16.87 an hour.

So, the wait staff are much less reliant on the tips.

So, when someone from Australia travels ... they will either not tip or tip only for exceptional service ... it's their mindset.

Nothing wrong with that, they are doing what comes naturally.

Of course, not everyone is the same ... it's a generalisation, not a rule

But Cultures change depending on their influences and the USA (popular) Cultural Influence is strong.

Through Hollywood and Sit-coms etc

When it comes to tipping in Thailand, I try to notice what my Thai Partner does, what her friends tip.

How and when Thais tip.

I would curious to hear from someone who has lived in China to see, in the World's most popular Nation,

is tipping part of their Culture?

Also from members who have lived in India ... what is their tipping Culture?.

.

BTW ... as a contrast to the opening premise of your post above ... I feel no guilt at all.

Good service is expected ... that is what they are paid for as their job ... no tip should be required for them to do their job.

Mind you ... I don't expect them to give me a shoe shine while I peruse the Menu.

I suppose it comes down to expectations as to the level of service.

To date, I've rarely had a problem in Thailand ... but I also don't expect Thailand to be the same as the West.

.

Edited December 14, 2014 by David48

[tropo]

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Does anyone tip when there's a 10% service charge? I don't. Do the staff get this as an extra bonus or does the restaurant owner use it to pay their staff wages.

I'd really like to hear about this from someone in the business.

I have been in the hospitality business in the USA for 14 years and in Thailand for the last 22, and as I have been reading this topic I have read little that I did not expect. For me to try and explain my position as a career F & B worker to most of those who have posted here IMO would be as useless as most BMs here saying it is to tip a Thai. So I won't get too far into that.

To answer the question about who gets the 10% in Thailand I will say from my 22 years of experience in every type of venue from no star to 5 star, from BKK to Pats to Phuket, most hotel, restaurant and venue owners keep the better part of the 10% (if not all of it) and will pass on a few percentage to the staff (if any). So for those who think the staff are getting tipped too much because they see 10% on the bill as a service charge YOU ARE WRONG. FACT.

It is my concerted opinion that tipping is supposed to be an incentive for staff to work well, and IFO would prefer to not have the 10% automatically added to bill, and I would tip what I thought was commensurate with the level of service and quality of the rest of my meal (unlike so many who have posted to this topic). I tip between 10 and 20% dependent on many factors. If it is included and there is a large percentage of service charge related to having purchased some good bottles of wine then I will adjust my tip accordingly (lower) and keep in mind the level of overall service and food, rather than the total of the entire bill.

If I am in an upscale venue and they have already levied a 10% service charge, and I feel I got exemplary service, I will still add what I think would balance out to 15 or 20%. But I have to say that after being in the F & B business on 2 continents for a total of 36 years, most decent, hardworking staffs deserve to get paid a livable wage, deserve to get tipped when it’s commensurate with the level of service they have provided, and should be treated with respect.

But if they are lazy, unfriendly, poor servers, or request/demand to be tipped I do not and I will take the time to let them know why I have not. Many times I will tell management, leave comments on social media pages, or write to management about what I feel is deficient.

IFO thinks it’s all about having a balanced approach and i tip/comment accordingly.

Also keep in mind that in 99.99% of all TH F & B venues any tips/service charge, including those left on the table, will be shared by ALL the staff - front of the house, back of the house, parking/valet, bar, toilet, whatever. The only tip a worker may keep for themselves is the one placed directly into their hand, and most often they will still throw that into the general tip pool for all to share.

Further, to keep this all in perspective I do not tip when I eat on the street or in fast food places. But even in a typical TH shop house restaurant if the service was good I will leave a small tip relative to the cost of the meal, if there was a server, and the service was good/attentive. Being an expat of so many years I typically eat in the same places time and again, and like some BMs have stated, rational tipping goes a long way to getting consistnetly good service, food and beverages as time goes on.

If it’s a bar venue I tip the bartender so that they will remember what I like, how I like it, and so I get a fair pour each and every time. IFO think that those few baht go a long way for me to get what I want and to have a good time.

When I am at work training staff I spend a lot of time on trying to impress them with the fact that customers are not required to leave anything (10% included or not) and that the only way to encourage a customer to tip is to simply provide a high level of friendly professional service. But I also try to teach them not to expect that to yield results either (as shown by many posts on this thread) and to simply provide the best level of service that they can each and every time, and eventually that in and of itself should yield a reward for them.

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this board, having a service job and dealing with the public (and their high expectations and many times plantation attitude), and all the related stress that brings is most often not easy. People who do this work should be compensated accordingly like anyone else who wakes up each day and goes out to earn an honest wage.

And yes, I am an American, and that should have nothing to do with this discussion.

Thanks for the info on what you believe happens to the 10% service charge, but it's still a bit vague. Shall we take it that the service charge never reaches the staff?

IFO don't see any rationale for percentage tipping as is standard practice in the US.

Let's say 2 customers enter the same restaurant:

Customer A orders fried rice with a coke - total cost of 60 baht.

Customer B orders an imported steak with sides and a glass or wine - total cost 500 baht (example)

The wait staff walk the same distance and burn exactly the same number of calories in serving both customers.

Customer A based on 15% pays a tip of 9 baht

Customer B pays a tip of 75 baht.

Where's the logic in that?

(Some Japanese restaurants have steak worth over 1000 baht (Kobe) per serve, in which case the tip will be more than 170 baht for customer

In Australia tourists are encouraged not to tip through literature published by the Government Tourism Authority and distributed to tourists at ports of entry. They specifically do not want the tipping culture of the US to "taint" Australian ways. Of course Australian restaurant workers are paid a living wage, which to me is a better way to solve the problem.

Percentage tipping is not tipping - it's a surcharge.

[Tchooptip]

DON'T TIP, you just ruin the culture for everyone. How stupid is it to encourage people to actually do what they are paid to do by their employer. Think your a bigger man now? How about dropping the 300 Baht into a reputable donation location, that actually helps out someone without a job.

Oz

We in Europe tip since centuries, it is part of the culture. My Thai wife tips a lot if the service is good and she did it long before she knew me so it is also culture here.

''We in Europe tip since centuries'' (Pfff at least)...You could be a good lawyer

but you'r right some Thai tip too of course!

Edited December 14, 2014 by Tchooptip

[Tchooptip]

Very curious assertions from you and some others.

They are friends of 20+ years. We have been to dinner scores of times with them, they pay, we pay. Some banter between us about a tip is all part of our friendship.

Discussing a tip amongst friends is not some type of socal faux pas or taboo!

The only thing disturbing about the OP is that the guest demands the host pay more tips and when the host did not as is his custom and right, the guest decides to proceed with his own tip anyway.

Kind of insulting to the host, isn't it?

Beggars belief, that the OP had the audacity to even check what the payer is tipping, i would have asked him for 4000 baht back

Of course, some here have immoderate sick egos!

[sparkey]

Well my Tuppence's worth

Always been a 10% tipper anywhere in the world

Got thoroughly fed up with never receiving the bill at the end of a meal (always going to the Thai/s I'm dining with)

I now give my wallet to the missus and they generally get 20 BT

Result

I get an extra couple of meals out a month on the saving on my tipping, not peeved when I get my dinner when everyone is finishing theirs, not bothered when I'm completely ignored and no face loss as I'm not paying

Good result in my books

[EmptyHead]

Sorry, i am not sure if this has been clarified yet or not. Didn't notice it when i was skimming the thread, but was there a 10% service charge or not?

[Water Buffalo]

Why should staff rely on tips? Why can't the rich restaurant owner pay his staff enough? Why should the customer be responsible for that?

OK, if service is amazing and you feel generous, fine. But why should we feel obligated to tip because they depend on it? It's a joke. I am not their employer.

And being forced to pay a 10% service charge regardless of how bad the servce was, is a joke too.

If i was paying an 8k bill and there was no service charge already added, i would leave anything up to 400 baht (5%) max, depending on the kind of service revieved. If the service was awful, maybe 100 baht (just becuase i feel obligated to leave something).

Now, if a waiter or waitress gets 3 customers like that a day, they have made 1,200 baht. That's 24k a month on tips. Add that to their salary and they are making the same as me teaching English with a degree and teaching certificate. Sounds pretty good for them, actually.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Water Buffalo

[David48]

^^ Farang Restaurant Customer ... the new ATM?

.

[zierf1]

Nearly had a heart attack seeing 8,000. I could make that much money last for several months eating at food stalls.

[sparkey]

that's another thing

You can have the lousiest food but great service

.

Unless you put the tip in the waiter/ess hand it goes in bin and gets split

Leave your woman to sort out the bill

[mtnthai]

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Tipping is ridiculous. Lots of people work minimum wage jobs, but for some reason the west has made us feel guilty for not GIVING servers extra money for simply bringing food to the table. Do these people work any harder than the ones at Big C, Burger King, or the gas station? But for some reason we give extra money to waiters...... Strange custom if you ask me.
...

To add insult to injury, restaurant service is usually 100 times worse in Bangkok than in America (from my personal experience).

Well, in American, restaurants can pay waiters less than minimum wage. Jobs that recieve tips are not required to have the normal minimum wage. In some states you only have to pay a waiter $2.13 an hour, which is the minimum wage for tipped employees. Normal minimum wage is $7.25.

Yes, that is true and it is WRONG. Customers should not foot the bill for cheap employers.

By the way, it is not like this in every state either. In California, servers and waiters get the state mandated minimum wage just like everyone else.

i believe that you, like so many posters here, are missing the point IN REGARD TO THE USA and how wages are dealt with ... the entire impetus of that system is to encourage staff to have some incentive to work well, unlike cultures where the service charge is included (and customers erroneously think the staff get all of that) which IMO encourages staff to sit on their hands and not give a damn. after all, they are getting paid regardless of how they perform their responsibilities. having to work for the tip most often times encourages a better level of service, which is why the service in America is most often not too bad.

the other fact that many posters are missing here, in regard to Thailand, is that the profit margin in most establishments is nowhere as high as you may think, and the costs of running an establishment are numerous, and high. further, unlike other countries where there is a great network of F & B suppliers who offer wholesale prices on everything (including kitchen equipment), unbeknownst to so many of you that does not exist here in Thailand to the degree it does in other places. the cost of goods and equipment, the tax on wines and beer, etc create a situation where turning a profit for the average restaurant is not the same as in other countries.

further, to keep deluding yourselves that the 10% goes to staff is just that, a dellusion. they get a small portion of that if any. IMO you need to come up with a different rational for not tipping when the SC is on the bill already.

[attrayant]

Why should staff rely on tips? Why can't the rich restaurant owner pay his staff enough?

Because he's not rich. If you've ever tried to start up a restaurant business, you'd know that.

Why should the customer be responsible for that?

Yeah, the customer should actually pay for labor? What nerve!

I think I shouldn't have to pay for garage parking at fancy malls. The "rich" mall owner should include that cost in the rent he charges to all the shops.

OK, if service is amazing and you feel generous, fine.

Wait - with that statement you seem to have changed your tune. So is it okay to tip or not?

Now, if a waiter or waitress gets 3 customers like that a day, they have made 1,200 baht. That's 24k a month on tips. Add that to their salary and they are making the same as me teaching English with a degree and teaching certificate. Sounds pretty good for them, actually.

A few sentences ago you said you're not their employer, but now you're making all kinds of judgments on how much you feel they should be earning, and by what means. You sure sound like their employer.

[David48]

i believe that you, like so many posters here, are missing the point IN REGARD TO THE USA and how wages are dealt with ... the entire impetus of that system is to encourage staff to have some incentive to work well, unlike cultures where the service charge is included (and customers erroneously think the staff get all of that) which IMO encourages staff to sit on their hands and not give a damn. after all, they are getting paid regardless of how they perform their responsibilities. having to work for the tip most often times encourages a better level of service, which is why the service in America is most often not too bad.

No ... I think we get it ... just that we didn't grow up with that system, thus don't agree with it when it's transplanted into the Thai Culture.

This is one take on it ... it's an observation, it's a generalisation, not a rule.

If you are from the USA, tipping is engrained in your mindset.

Indeed, your goodwill with your tip forms indirectly part of the wait service staff's salary.

The USA minimum wage is USD 7.25 an hour.

Service staff are reliant on tips to top up their wage.

So, when someone from the States travels ... they will tip ... it's their mindset.

Nothing wrong with that, they are doing what comes naturally.

Of course, not everyone is the same ... it's a generalisation, not a rule

.

I, and maybe many others are used to a system when the employee is paid a living wage to do the job and, in turn, is expected to do that job.

No need to discuss if Bt 300 is a 'living wage' ... it is what it is set by the Thai Government.

So, we (or I) do understand ... we (or I) just don't agree with it ... irrelevant if it provides a higher customer service level ... or not.

.

[canuckamuck]

Mtnthai

What is the appropriate tip for a bad restaurant experience? In Thailand, and also in the US.

[mtnthai]

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Mtnthai

What is the appropriate tip for a bad restaurant experience? In Thailand, and also in the US.

as i clearly stated in one of my first posts if i get bad service i do not tip, i actually take the time to express my dissatisfaction to the waitstaff and most often the manager/owner, and in most cases i will post about it on social media, Facebook/Tripadvisor.

I find that when things are good, show it, and when things are bad, show it.

I take what I consider to be a very balanced approach to service and food quality (anywhere).

But I am coming from decades of hote/F & B work and I know my outlook on all of this is different from those who have different backgrounds, or take no interest in good food or service.

Another thought that comes to mind while reading this topic is I find myself wondering how many of the posters who are so adamant about not tipping, good service being an easy job, and thinking that restaurants make huge profits all the of time are also the same people I have observed over the years who think its ok to take a doggie bag home from a buffet.

[mtnthai]

@canuckamuck:

when i worked in the states i was in Vermont on the Canadian border. every ski season Canadians would come to VT to holiday and most did not tip. but if the argument here is that when in Rome do as the Romans do, why is that most Canadians do not do this when travelling in the states and they know full well what the system is and that service staff are on a limited hourly wage?

Edited December 14, 2014 by mtnthai

[Donutz]

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Well, in American, restaurants can pay waiters less than minimum wage. Jobs that recieve tips are not required to have the normal minimum wage. In some states you only have to pay a waiter $2.13 an hour, which is the minimum wage for tipped employees. Normal minimum wage is $7.25.

Yes, that is true and it is WRONG. Customers should not foot the bill for cheap employers.

By the way, it is not like this in every state either. In California, servers and waiters get the state mandated minimum wage just like everyone else.

i believe that you, like so many posters here, are missing the point IN REGARD TO THE USA and how wages are dealt with ... the entire impetus of that system is to encourage staff to have some incentive to work well, unlike cultures where the service charge is included (and customers erroneously think the staff get all of that) which IMO encourages staff to sit on their hands and not give a damn. after all, they are getting paid regardless of how they perform their responsibilities. having to work for the tip most often times encourages a better level of service, which is why the service in America is most often not too bad.

the other fact that many posters are missing here, in regard to Thailand, is that the profit margin in most establishments is nowhere as high as you may think, and the costs of running an establishment are numerous, and high. further, unlike other countries where there is a great network of F & B suppliers who offer wholesale prices on everything (including kitchen equipment), unbeknownst to so many of you that does not exist here in Thailand to the degree it does in other places. the cost of goods and equipment, the tax on wines and beer, etc create a situation where turning a profit for the average restaurant is not the same as in other countries.

further, to keep deluding yourselves that the 10% goes to staff is just that, a dellusion. they get a small portion of that if any. IMO you need to come up with a different rational for not tipping when the SC is on the bill already.

If SC rarely if at all reaches the staff that is even more reason why it shouldn't be on the bill. SC that goes to the owner? Then you could charge SC at the gasstation, supermarket, barber, hotel, grocery store, cloths shop, DIY, dentist etc. They all provide a service after all and the owner needs to make (more) money.

Or -which I prefer- try to avoid places with SC and tip as much or less (nothing?) to the staff. How much, well that is up to the customer. Who am I to say tipping 20% is any better or worse then 5% , leaving small change or no tips?

Do tips make staff provide better service? Perhaps to some extend. I waited tables and hoped for tips (usually a few euro's, around 5% or so being common) but I obviously knew and felt I never should expect a tip. For normal service those people already pay a fair price and I got a fair wage at or above minimum wage (wage below minimum for waiting staff, &lt;deleted&gt;?!). Now at times some customers would have all kinds of special requests, no easy customers for sure, then ofcourse I'd hope that our extra or exceptional service would be rewarded. Often it did but rarely with much extra or exceptional tips. Just as sometimes people were really greatfull with normal (good) service levels and made this known through words or tips. Infact some compliments I/we got were much more rewarding then large tips. It's not just tips that encourage service, it's also perceiving customers enjoying their visit. From somebody who waits tabels for a living rather then (high school and uni) students earning some cash I'd expect them to enjoy the job even more and gain lots of joy out of catering people. If tips are what makes you going and provide good service, then you ain't in the right line of work. Money hungry wolves are better of working at say a bank.

If staff relies on tips for a living:

- the owner is a total c*nt.

- something is wrong, tips should be an extra, optional, reward.

- proper or even exceptional service should be in the mind of any staff. If you enjoy your work you do not expect tips as a token of satisfaction but a happy customer is already a reward on it's own.

- If services deserves or even needs tipping we should be tipping all staff at all kinds of places. Not just waiters. So if tipping would work in getting good service, why not apply it to all lines of work. Tip your baker, cars salesman, bank employee and police officer.

[Tchooptip]

I have got (maybe) a good idea for you frollywolly,

You will try to go eating for 45 Baht not less not more,

and you will tip 8000 Baht not less not more !

Could hardly do anyting best for your Karma, and please do not believe all the excuses of the kienio old farts of TV any more!

[TheSpade]

To say "Thai's don't tip" as a blanket statement is wrong.

I know plenty of middle class Bangkokians who DO tip.

And more than 5-10B even when service hasn't been particularly good. I always debate with them if we should really be leaving a 100B tip when the staff were uninterested, we got the wrong food, and we had to wait an hour on food but they insist.

[GuestHouse]

What was stopping the OP, paying a tip?

I always tip good service in restaurants, even if I'm not paying the bill I'll make a point of saying 'if you're paying I'll tip'.

As for expats telling others not to tip, or indeed to tip.

My money, I'll do with it as I please.

If it pleases me to tip and ensure I get good service the next time I visit a restaurant, then my choice - enjoy waiting while I get served ahead of you.

That is, as they say, Up2U.