Thai PM: CIA’s interrogations in Thailand, an internal USA matter

[oneday]

The real question they are avoiding is "did the Thai government know about this detention center and more to the point did they cooperate with the US". I'm sure that is what people want to know. The answer to these questions is NOT an internal US matter. Until they answer these questions I'm sure this will continue to be a controversial subject.

What the new PM will never seem to understand is that there will always be tough questions to answer to the public and he cannot just duck the questions for the sake of a "peaceful country". He's living in a dream world if he thinks the public will accept these kinds of answers.

[GerdT]

I don't understand why some of you people are 'getting your nose out of joint' at what may or may not have happened to scumbags that would have slit your throat or blown your brains out given half a chance if they thought it would further their cause.

Because not all of them have been ‘scumbags’ and in some cases even were children when treated like ‘scumbags’. Torture and violations of human rights should never be permissible because it puts one onto the same level as the people which are alleged to be terrorists.

[keskeseksa]

I must agree with Daffy Duck, most of the posters seem to blame the new PM.

They're barking the wrong tree.

Isn't this event about the US? and when it happened in Thailand, who was in charge?

PM Prayut is right. We have more peace now than in the last 10 years, and it should stay on until reforms are put in place.

[jdlancaster]

Did the thai government know about the detention center? Of course. .... they gave them the land. When foreigners are abused, trafficked, and in modern day slavery here... why would you make a fuss with the people giving you large amounts of military aid and training. Also, how are the islamic extremists in the south treated? I don't think the government here would find such a facility here that much of an issue. ... they just don't see it that way. For comparison ask yourself where did Pol Pot used to live when the vietnamese pushed the khmer rouge to a sliver in the west of Cambodia? He had a nice villa in thailand and was used as a buffer state against the Vietnam controlled cambodian government. This despite the millions he killed.... a detention center.... is.... nothing in comparison.

[GuestHouse]

Thailand renting out space to foreign governments in which the foreign nation's security forces can move other nationals in and out of Thailand in order to torture them in facilities within Thailand.

And the government say this has nothing to do with Thailand but is an internal US issue.

What's happened to all that proud nationalism and inviable sovereignty all of a sudden?

[keskeseksa]

Who said the Thai government allowed the torture facilities?

Maybe just one man in power did it, in exchange for other favours.

[asdecas]

I don't understand why some of you people are 'getting your nose out of joint' at what may or may not have happened to scumbags that would have slit your throat or blown your brains out given half a chance if they thought it would further their cause.

The reason you don't understand is that you cannot grasp what it may mean for civilisation when the long-established and nurtured norms of society are routinely, cynically and callously trampled upon by self-serving, powerful people.

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing" John Stuart Mill (possibly after Edmund Burke)

Edited December 14, 2014 by asdecas

[MW72]

I think you will find that the Dear Leader is correct, I understand that a spokesperson for the Thai Ministry of Disinformation will confirm, later today, that somebody else said that these individuals " arrived by teleportation direct to a US diplomatic site, which is US Sovereign territory and left via the same route. Therefore they technically never entered Thailand".

So I guess it is an internal US issue.

Whilst embassies and the like are considered to be the sovereign territory of the country occupying them, I don't believe that the host nation should accept that illegal activities can be carried out and they can do nothing about it or should even care about it. The question then becomes, was this activity illegal? By the looks of it there are not many who consider it to be legal save for the CIA.

[sojourner007]

The real question they are avoiding is "did the Thai government know about this detention center and more to the point did they cooperate with the US". I'm sure that is what people want to know. The answer to these questions is NOT an internal US matter. Until they answer these questions I'm sure this will continue to be a controversial subject.

What the new PM will never seem to understand is that there will always be tough questions to answer to the public and he cannot just duck the questions for the sake of a "peaceful country". He's living in a dream world if he thinks the public will accept these kinds of answers.

"The public"...Foreigners are a tiny minority in Thailand and as far as Thai people is concerned I suspect 99% of them don't give a sh#t about this issue. To the majority of the locals the past is irrelevant, the future is uncertain, and the only time frame that is worth thinking about is today and tonight:).

[Broeno]

This means the Thai gouvernement is unscrupulous. You just can wait for it untill it comes back to them, or better say to the Thai people. The Germans after the second worldwar have hidden behind " wir haben es nicht gewust". The Thai gouvernement didn't learn anything of thei behaviour to cooporate with the Japanese.

For me this is schoking unbelievable.

[Suffinator]

I thought taking drugs in Thailand was illegal ... whatever the General's on I'd like some ... maybe he's been nipping at Charlem's ear medication.

This guy is so far out of his depth it's unreal.

[Thai at Heart]

He does understand the meaning of the word "internal".

Unless thailand became a satellite state of the USA and no one told anyone.

[wandasloan]

So everything a foreign country does in Thailand soil is non of business of Thai government

This should be new TAT tourism slogan

I gather you didn't read the report. Either Prayut or his minders did, however. There is not ONE WORD in it which connects Thailand to the CIA interrogations. There is not a single assertion there was any US facility in Thailand to do this. Prayut is actually quite correct, that this report is a US political matter, since it does not even once connect Thailand to the abuses it reports. In the several hundreds of pages reporting or alleging harsh and/or illegal treatment of detainees, you will not find the word "Thailand".

You are free to read between the lines, and me too. However, Prayut is exactly, scrupulously correct. It's called "plausible denial" and he has loads and loads of it.

.

[BigBadGeordie]

So everything a foreign country does in Thailand soil is non of business of Thai government

This should be new TAT tourism slogan

I gather you didn't read the report. Either Prayut or his minders did, however. There is not ONE WORD in it which connects Thailand to the CIA interrogations. There is not a single assertion there was any US facility in Thailand to do this. Prayut is actually quite correct, that this report is a US political matter, since it does not even once connect Thailand to the abuses it reports. In the several hundreds of pages reporting or alleging harsh and/or illegal treatment of detainees, you will not find the word "Thailand".

You are free to read between the lines, and me too. However, Prayut is exactly, scrupulously correct. It's called "plausible denial" and he has loads and loads of it.

.

I beg to differ

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/12/thailand-denies-secret-prison-torture-senate-cia

Various leaked reports over the years have suggested the site was either just outside of Bangkok or in the northern province of Udon Thani. But Thai officials have denied the existence of secret detention facilities, despite the CIAconfirming in 2009 that it had destroyed 92 tapes of interviews with terror suspects that had been safeguarded somewhere in Thailand.The Senate’s report, of which a heavily redacted 525-page summary was published on Tuesday, mentions Thailand just a few times and always in reference to the capture of Hambali – one of the suspects in the 2002 Bali bombings – with crucial details of the relationship between the US and Thailand either blacked out or omitted.

[wandasloan]

I beg to differ

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/12/thailand-denies-secret-prison-torture-senate-cia

You needn't beg.

You did not read the report from the Democratic Party senators, and you did not read the Guardian's correct summary of it. AT NO POINT does the senators' report so much as mention the word "Thailand" in connection with a secret site, harsh interrogation, etc. Not once. AT NO POINT does the Guardian claim it does.

You also are free to read between the lines, as is everyone - as the Guardian's staff have done. But the fact is the senators' report does not name Thailand (in the context of detaining, treating and allegedly mistreating detainees). Not once.

You could confirm that, you know. It's not hard. It's not secret.

And by the way, just to add emphasis to Prayut's statement, this is not a "US Senate report" as many say. It is a report by the Democratic senators who are members of the intelligence committee of the Senate. Neither the senate nor even the committee has endorsed it. Many have criticised it or worse.

As Prayut says from his deep, impregnable pit of plausible deniability - it's all just US politics, nothing to do with us.

.

Edited December 14, 2014 by wandasloan

[mikehock]

The real question they are avoiding is "did the Thai government know about this detention center and more to the point did they cooperate with the US". I'm sure that is what people want to know. The answer to these questions is NOT an internal US matter. Until they answer these questions I'm sure this will continue to be a controversial subject.

What the new PM will never seem to understand is that there will always be tough questions to answer to the public and he cannot just duck the questions for the sake of a "peaceful country". He's living in a dream world if he thinks the public will accept these kinds of answers.

The real question.????.....what is important here is that the USGovernment at the time endorsed the activities of the CIA.

Lets not try to shift responsibilty to 3rd party countries that as friends of the USA cooperated with the then US Government.

Thr Thai PM is correct....this is an internal US matter...don't try to drag the current Thai government into this mess..

Edited December 14, 2014 by mikehock

[micmichd]

I don't understand why some of you people are 'getting your nose out of joint' at what may or may not have happened to scumbags that would have slit your throat or blown your brains out given half a chance if they thought it would further their cause.

It takes a brain to get it blown out.

[Netzero]

For those with short memories - back when the 'black prisons' were disclosed, one of whcih being in Thailand and Hambai was arrested in Thailand at the behest of the USA, there was no comment from the Thais...except to admit that they arrested Hambali. But of course that was all an internal US matter on Thai soil.

[BigBadGeordie]

So everything a foreign country does in Thailand soil is non of business of Thai government

This should be new TAT tourism slogan

I gather you didn't read the report. Either Prayut or his minders did, however. There is not ONE WORD in it which connects Thailand to the CIA interrogations. There is not a single assertion there was any US facility in Thailand to do this. Prayut is actually quite correct, that this report is a US political matter, since it does not even once connect Thailand to the abuses it reports. In the several hundreds of pages reporting or alleging harsh and/or illegal treatment of detainees, you will not find the word "Thailand".

You are free to read between the lines, and me too. However, Prayut is exactly, scrupulously correct. It's called "plausible denial" and he has loads and loads of it.

.

Pages 464 to 473 specifically refer to Detention Site Green, which I acknowledge is not, within the report, identified a Thailand.

However it has been reported elsewhere many times that this site is in Thailand.

[SinCityGr8One]

The real question they are avoiding is "did the Thai government know about this detention center and more to the point did they cooperate with the US". I'm sure that is what people want to know. The answer to these questions is NOT an internal US matter. Until they answer these questions I'm sure this will continue to be a controversial subject.

What the new PM will never seem to understand is that there will always be tough questions to answer to the public and he cannot just duck the questions for the sake of a "peaceful country". He's living in a dream world if he thinks the public will accept these kinds of answers.

"The public"...Foreigners are a tiny minority in Thailand and as far as Thai people is concerned I suspect 99% of them don't give a sh#t about this issue. To the majority of the locals the past is irrelevant, the future is uncertain, and the only time frame that is worth thinking about is today and tonight:).

Exactly, my thoughts. What Thai people want to know? I'm not aware of any Thai that gives a rat's ass about this or, is even aware of it. So I'll even increase that 99% to 99.999%. They are just not interested. Period.

[davehowden]

Might be easier to enumerate the countries which DID NOT cooperate with the CIA in the rendition exercises?

As most Thais are not interested in what happens beyond the end of their soi anyway I think the General is right, "move along, nothing to see here".

[BritTim]

The Prime Minister also asked all sides not to demand involvement from Thailand as the current situation in the country is peaceful.

What on Earth has "the country is peaceful" got to do with demanding involvement from the government in investigating torture on its soil? Does the PM have any idea about what he has said?

A bizarre statement indeed!

This is what I think he is saying. If Thailand admits to have participated, even to the extent of agreeing to look the other way, certain violent groups may well become ill-disposed towards the country. The effect could be destabilizing violence. There may, indeed, be something to worry about here, but he is sure choosing a strange way of trying to defuse the situation.

[jpeg]

Of course there are going to be official denials from the current regime - just as there were from Thaksin Shinawatra when he was giving the nod to rendition as Thailand's PM. The evidence that Thailand is and has been complicit in torture and use of so-called "advanced interrogation" techniques against "terrorists" fingered by the US is overwhelming, as a Google search will quickly reveal.

Try this link as an eye opening starter from that well-known bunch of conspiracy theorists called the BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30401100

I'm as surprised that this is 'news' as I am that *gasp* torture, sorry, 'enhanced interrogation techniques' was widely used by the CIA to support their bogus claims these people were guilty/complicit in 9/11. And reported as 'news' to the US public just this week. How stupid are some people, seriously.

[wandasloan]

For those with short memories - back when the 'black prisons' were disclosed, one of whcih being in Thailand and Hambai was arrested in Thailand at the behest of the USA, there was no comment from the Thais...except to admit that they arrested Hambali. But of course that was all an internal US matter on Thai soil.

You should not rely on your memory. Yours is quite faulty here, I believe. By the time (August 2003) that Hambali was tracked to and captured in Ayutthaya, the CIA safe house was long shuttered and gone, the tapes were destroyed, the prisoners were elsewhere.

The two stories of the interrogation centre and the Hambali capture are unrelated. The report from the Democratic Party's senators make that clear - quite correctly and, for once, without "redacting" or other self-censorship.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Finally this guy lost all common sense.

[kaydee412]

I gather you didn't read the report. Either Prayut or his minders did, however. There is not ONE WORD in it which connects Thailand to the CIA interrogations. There is not a single assertion there was any US facility in Thailand to do this. Prayut is actually quite correct, that this report is a US political matter, since it does not even once connect Thailand to the abuses it reports. In the several hundreds of pages reporting or alleging harsh and/or illegal treatment of detainees, you will not find the word "Thailand".

You are free to read between the lines, and me too. However, Prayut is exactly, scrupulously correct. It's called "plausible denial" and he has loads and loads of it.

The report uses code names for the foreign entity sites. The Washington Post has decoded them: http://postgraphics.tumblr.com/post/104767206743/map-cia-black-sites-map-decoded-read-more.

The report mentions Thailand many times. US intelligence has previously identified Thailand as a foreign entity hosting this type of site. You can claim "plausible deniability" all you want, but it's not plausible by any standard except in the intelligence sense. Is it spelled out in the report? No. Would doing that hurt future relations and be unwise? You bet.

Also, just for the record, the report was produced by United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Select_Committee_on_Intelligence#Members.2C_113th_Congress.

Edited December 14, 2014 by kaydee412

[tingtong]

What is the punishment for interrogation without proper work permit?

[Alwyn]

The American government torturing third parties on Thai soil is an "internal USA matter."

Of course it is.

It wasnt done on Thai soil, get a little knowledge about overseas missions status.. Get my point. Look no future than CM!!!!!

If the tortures took place within the USA embassy then that's quite true but if (and very likely) they were using safe houses to torture (as the Thai police did on Koh Tao with the B2) that are rented or bought then they are/were on Thai soil

[SinCityGr8One]

Let me get this right. Some Forum Board members are totally against "enhanced interrogation" techniques such as sleep deprivation, water boarding, electro shocking of the genitals, etc. All this because it violates the "Human Rights" of known or suspected terrorists whose only goal right now is to kill innocent civilians through acts of terror. The same ones who will chop your head off while praising "Allah". I am totally against those techniques my self, due to time constraints utilizing them. Hours, perhaps days wasted to gather necessary Intel to prevent an upcoming slaughter of innocents. What about the basic "Human Right" to Life for the intended victims of a Terror Attack?. Reading most of these Posts, they're mostly regarding the CIA, interrogation facilities, sovereignty of Thailand and the usual bashing of America, and really nothing about saving lives or preventing terror attacks. My solution is simple and quick. I'll gather up five suspected terrorists, who I am 100% sure they know something about to happen. I'll cuff them and blindfold them and place them in a chopper. My crew will fly out over the Sea at about 1500 meters in elevation. I'll open the chopper door and ask the one who I think is the toughest of the bunch of them, questions on what He knows. If He refuses to talk or spits in my face, I'll thrown him out the open door with the others watching. I guarantee you, the others will sing like canaries and valuable Intel will be gathered to prevent an upcoming terror attack. Fly back to base for debriefing. Mission Accomplished. I don't believe that anyone who is willing to kill innocent Men, Women, Children and Babies has any rights to be called "Human" in the first place. They lost that, along with any compassion or sympathy from me. Who has a quicker or better Intel gathering technique than mine? Let me know.

[wandasloan]

The report uses code names for the foreign entity sites. The Washington Post has decoded them: http://postgraphics.tumblr.com/post/104767206743/map-cia-black-sites-map-decoded-read-more.

As I have said several times, the report last week AT NO POINT mentioned Thailand in relation to rendition, safe house, interrogation, etc. You, me, the Washington Post... we are free to conclude what we want. But the one thing we are NOT free to do is to quote this report on how Thailand was a site for CIA interrogation. That is why Gen Prayut said, very carefully, what he said.

The report mentions Thailand many times. US intelligence has previously identified Thailand as a foreign entity hosting this type of site. You can claim "plausible deniability" all you want, but it's not plausible by any standard except in the intelligence sense. Is it spelled out in the report? No. Would doing that hurt future relations and be unwise? You bet.

The report has the word "Thailand" many times. However, not one of those times is on, about, in relation to or connected with the CIA interrogation. The rendition of Hambali FROM Thailand was/is/will be clear public knowledge, something everyone involved was proud of. Part of the censorship process by the authors made that point. The reason was to provide plausible deniability. Americans are quite good at that smarmy stuff.

Also, just for the record, the report was produced by United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. You can read more about it

here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Select_Committee_on_Intelligence#Members.2C_113th_Congress.

The dangers of quoting Wikipedia. magnified by your posting.

No sir, what was released to the public last week was NOT produced by that committee. It is a summary of a 6,700-page report that WAS produced by the committee, but which common folks can't see.

The report released last wee was a summary of the main report. It was produced by some of the Democratic Party members of that committee. The committee, the Republican members of it, the Democratic members of it and the Senate as a whole - NONE of them is responsible for that summary report and none of them has claimed credit/blame for it.

The senators who produced the report are members of that committee, which funded and published the study, as it would for any member or group of members. That does not mean "the committee" has any responsibility for what was published. Indeed, all Republicans and some Democrats specifically separated themselves from, and opposed release of, that report.

In that sense, Gen Prayut not only has a point, he is right on target. It *is* a huge US political dispute, one that will ebb and flow for quite some time, certainly for the next two years.

.

Edited December 14, 2014 by wandasloan