Daughter's fight to bring father back to UK after devastating Thailand bike crash

[dabhand]

The NHS does not normally provide free hospital treatment for people who do not reside in the UK even if they are UK nationals

• If you have lived outside the UK for more than 3 months (6 months for some pensioners) in the last year you can be charged

• You will be exempt from charges if you can produce evidence that you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK continuously for at least 10 years at some point

Hasn't that been, or about to be changed? I thought I read where now, if you are a UK national, treatment will be free providing you paid more than so many years NHI - 10 or 11 I think?

Anyone know?

I don't think that is correct. I think you are getting confused with pensions, where you need to have a minimum number of years contributions to get the basic State pension.

From the Wikipedia site on NHS England - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)#Free_services_and_contributory_services

'Eligibility for free NHS services is based on having "permanent residence status" (a birthright for some or granted by the Home Office for those who have immigrated). The person must be registered with a general practitioner and have an NHS card and number.'

'Those who are not "ordinarily resident" who do not fall into the above category (including British citizens who may have paid National Insurance contributions in the past) are liable to charges for services.'

My emphasis.

Also see - http://www.permanentresident.co.uk/ and http://www.ukpermits.com/visa-types/permanent-residence

From the latter - To keep your permanent residence you should not spend longer than two years outside the UK. You should maintain ties to the UK and should consider the UK as your home.

And from www.gov.uk/living-in-thailand -

Healthcare

Your entitlement to free NHS treatment depends on the length and purpose of your residence in the UK, not your nationality. You must be able to show UK residency to be eligible for free treatment, even if you are a British citizen. The Citizens’ Advice Bureau or NHS can provide further information.

So, basically, he is not likely to be be eligible for FREE NHS treatment if he returns, BUT I have heard of cases when people come back with life-threatening injuries and the rules are ignored.

Good luck to him, but I think he's got a good chance of having to pay ...

Luckily, I am still registered with a UK address and an NHS GP and whenever I go over, I always get a load of blood tests etc done free, but then I have been friends with the practice nurse for years.

Finally, try here for more information on the 'habitual residence test' (which I would fail) -

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/benefits_w/benefits_coming_from_abroad_and_claiming_benefits_hrt/benefits_the_habitual_residence_test_introduction/what_is_the_habitual_residence_test.htm

I believe this is what the poster was referring to:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/10303008/Brits-abroad-could-have-rights-to-free-NHS-treatment-restored.html

It seems to indicate that having a minimum of seven years NIC contributions would entitle a person to free NHS treatment. However it was a measure that had completed it's consultation period in 2013 with implementation expected in 2014. Can't find anything that states this indeed happened.

There is a separate indication that pensioners, who had previously lived continuously in the UK for ten years are entitled to 'some' cover - no details of the extent this cover.

[Mister Fixit]

I believe this is what the poster was referring to:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/10303008/Brits-abroad-could-have-rights-to-free-NHS-treatment-restored.html

It seems to indicate that having a minimum of seven years NIC contributions would entitle a person to free NHS treatment. However it was a measure that had completed it's consultation period in 2013 with implementation expected in 2014. Can't find anything that states this indeed happened.

There is a separate indication that pensioners, who had previously lived continuously in the UK for ten years are entitled to 'some' cover - no details of the extent this cover.

I've reached my free article limit on the Torygraph so can't read it at home, and the mobile site doesn't seem to have a 'health' section to browse. I'll have to wait until Monday to read it at work.

Unless you could cut and paste the relevant sections here ...?

[dabhand]

I believe this is what the poster was referring to:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/10303008/Brits-abroad-could-have-rights-to-free-NHS-treatment-restored.html

It seems to indicate that having a minimum of seven years NIC contributions would entitle a person to free NHS treatment. However it was a measure that had completed it's consultation period in 2013 with implementation expected in 2014. Can't find anything that states this indeed happened.

There is a separate indication that pensioners, who had previously lived continuously in the UK for ten years are entitled to 'some' cover - no details of the extent this cover.

I've reached my free article limit on the Torygraph so can't read it at home, and the mobile site doesn't seem to have a 'health' section to browse. I'll have to wait until Monday to read it at work.

Unless you could cut and paste the relevant sections here ...?

From an article dated 12Sep13, this is the relevant part of the section related to the eligibility after seven years of contributions:

Britions who live overseas for more than three months of the year currently lose their right to free health care at home, unless they have a medical emergency during a visit.

However, the government recently carried out a huge consultation into the NHS, suggesting that access to free treatment should be given to those who have made a fair contribution.

A fair contribution would constitute at least seven years of National Insurance contributions, under the proposals.

The current qualifying test for free treatment is whether a person is ordinarily resident. This is deemed to be unfair, as it is satisfied almost immediately by many new and temporary migrants, who may have contributed nothing.

The consultation period has now ended, and implementation of the outcome is expected in 2014.

The final para noted:

The consultation period has now ended, and implementation of the outcome is expected in 2014.

As I mentioned, no idea if this is still in the works or not as it doesn't appear to have been implemented, as yet.

[Mister Fixit]

Many thanks. Most useful to know. I might want to get my dickey knee seen to in the (hopefully distant) future ...

However, this seems to just be a consultation document so obviously not in force at the moment, which brings me back to the original point I made - it's quite likely the poor chap won't get free treatment on his return to the UK. However, with an Army and police pension, he should have enough to sort himself out, especially if he hasn't blown the lump sums.

Shame really, as he was from Kidderminster. a nice little town where my vicar uncle had his first church, and only 15 miles from where I spent 37 years of my life.

BTW, was he wearing a helmet at the time of the motorbike accident? I do hope, as a former copper, he had the sense to ...

Edit - His daughter said 'He was a police officer for more than 20 years and emigrated to Thailand two years ago.'

So, he HAD actually left the UK permanently and therefore is unlikely to be eligible for free NHS treatment if he ever gets back.

Further, his daughter has been in touch with a number of various military charities and with luck he'll get something there, although so far, they've only raised £4,000 towards the £50,000 needed. His ex-colleagues at his old police station raised all of £320 for him (a whole 16,000 baht ...)

Edited December 21, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[ffaarraanngg]

Be nice to see the British government step in and take some money from the pot to help this guy.

This guy will have a pension from the military and police. And the fact he cn retire in his early 50s shows he must have some wealth thus the family should use their own money to bail him out for being stupid enough to drive a motorcycle in Thailand and then to drive it with no insurance.

People seem to think the British taxpayer must fund everyone on planet earth.

[moobie]

As stated in an earlier Post of mine : Expats see page 10 within :- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/329789/NHS_Implentatation_Plan_Phase_3.PDF

Incidentally, most police I know in the UK have tended to retire in their early fifties once they have "done their years." One of my current drinking circle being one of them. He received a handsome lump sum (10's of thousands GBP) and a decent pension to boot. (Similarly, those working within council positions seem to retire around the age of 55, again once they have attained the years to provide for a pension.) There is a very good chance that this fellow's military years were added to his police service to allow him to retire at such an age to attain a pension.

[ffaarraanngg]

As stated in an earlier Post of mine : Expats see page 10 within :- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/329789/NHS_Implentatation_Plan_Phase_3.PDF

Incidentally, most police I know in the UK have tended to retire in their early fifties once they have "done their years." One of my current drinking circle being one of them. He received a handsome lump sum (10's of thousands GBP) and a decent pension to boot. (Similarly, those working within council positions seem to retire around the age of 55, again once they have attained the years to provide for a pension.) There is a very good chance that this fellow's military years were added to his police service to allow him to retire at such an age to attain a pension.

Exactly, the police, fire service and mid to upper echelons of the public sector make sure they line their own pockets at the tax payers expense.

If you can afford to retire early 50s you should spend your own money when things go wrong, it seems they don't want to spend their rainy day money instead wanting others to.

I do donate to individual cases where kids need urgent medical help, but once you get past a certain age you should be fully responsible for your own actions.

Edited December 21, 2014 by ffaarraanngg

[steve187]

military service is not added to police service, to get a full uk police pension without any element of ill heath you had to do either 25years for a half pension and 30 years for a 2/3rds pension, the optimum age being 55 ( now 60 I believe) years old, if you leave the police force before this amount of years the pension is not received until age 60,( now 65 i believe) he would be able to receive his pension now if he was not before, as he is now unfit to work as a police officer ( due to his injury)

local government pension is i believed worked out on an 80 year rule, if your age and length of service add up to 80, a pension is payable, but i believe that has now been changed.

armed service pensions are a different ball game and it used to be 22 years service = pension.

[ffaarraanngg]

military service is not added to police service, to get a full uk police pension without any element of ill heath you had to do either 25years for a half pension and 30 years for a 2/3rds pension, the optimum age being 55 ( now 60 I believe) years old, if you leave the police force before this amount of years the pension is not received until age 60,( now 65 i believe) he would be able to receive his pension now if he was not before, as he is now unfit to work as a police officer ( due to his injury)

local government pension is i believed worked out on an 80 year rule, if your age and length of service add up to 80, a pension is payable, but i believe that has now been changed.

armed service pensions are a different ball game and it used to be 22 years service = pension.

Not sure anyone works for 80 years.

But this link shows you are incorrect and police will be getting pensions from 50 should enough service have been done.

http://www.policebenefits.co.uk/pension_scheme/pension/pps_guide.html

Very large sums of free money dished out, yet they don't wish to spend their own money.

[Baerboxer]

The NHS does not normally provide free hospital treatment for people who do not reside in the UK even if they are UK nationals

• If you have lived outside the UK for more than 3 months (6 months for some pensioners) in the last year you can be charged

• You will be exempt from charges if you can produce evidence that you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK continuously for at least 10 years at some point

Hasn't that been, or about to be changed? I thought I read where now, if you are a UK national, treatment will be free providing you paid more than so many years NHI - 10 or 11 I think?

Anyone know?

I don't think that is correct. I think you are getting confused with pensions, where you need to have a minimum number of years contributions to get the basic State pension.

From the Wikipedia site on NHS England - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)#Free_services_and_contributory_services

'Eligibility for free NHS services is based on having "permanent residence status" (a birthright for some or granted by the Home Office for those who have immigrated). The person must be registered with a general practitioner and have an NHS card and number.'

'Those who are not "ordinarily resident" who do not fall into the above category (including British citizens who may have paid National Insurance contributions in the past) are liable to charges for services.'

My emphasis.

Also see - http://www.permanentresident.co.uk/ and http://www.ukpermits.com/visa-types/permanent-residence

From the latter - To keep your permanent residence you should not spend longer than two years outside the UK. You should maintain ties to the UK and should consider the UK as your home.

And from www.gov.uk/living-in-thailand -

Healthcare

Your entitlement to free NHS treatment depends on the length and purpose of your residence in the UK, not your nationality. You must be able to show UK residency to be eligible for free treatment, even if you are a British citizen. The Citizens’ Advice Bureau or NHS can provide further information.

So, basically, he is not likely to be be eligible for FREE NHS treatment if he returns, BUT I have heard of cases when people come back with life-threatening injuries and the rules are ignored.

Good luck to him, but I think he's got a good chance of having to pay ...

Luckily, I am still registered with a UK address and an NHS GP and whenever I go over, I always get a load of blood tests etc done free, but then I have been friends with the practice nurse for years.

Finally, try here for more information on the 'habitual residence test' (which I would fail) -

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/benefits_w/benefits_coming_from_abroad_and_claiming_benefits_hrt/benefits_the_habitual_residence_test_introduction/what_is_the_habitual_residence_test.htm

Thanks for that. There are a lot of changes going on at the moment regarding how the UK treats expats.

I'm sure I read that one of the changes was regarding the right to free NHI treatment, and that the change was that providing you had paid NHI for so many qualifying years you would always be eligible regardless residency for British citizens. When I've got some spare time I'll see if I can dig it out and PM you the details.

[Vejo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The NHS does not normally provide free hospital treatment for people who do not reside in the UK even if they are UK nationals

• If you have lived outside the UK for more than 3 months (6 months for some pensioners) in the last year you can be charged

• You will be exempt from charges if you can produce evidence that you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK continuously for at least 10 years at some point

Hasn't that been, or about to be changed? I thought I read where now, if you are a UK national, treatment will be free providing you paid more than so many years NHI - 10 or 11 I think?

Anyone know?

I don't think that is correct. I think you are getting confused with pensions, where you need to have a minimum number of years contributions to get the basic State pension.

From the Wikipedia site on NHS England - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)#Free_services_and_contributory_services

'Eligibility for free NHS services is based on having "permanent residence status" (a birthright for some or granted by the Home Office for those who have immigrated). The person must be registered with a general practitioner and have an NHS card and number.'

'Those who are not "ordinarily resident" who do not fall into the above category (including British citizens who may have paid National Insurance contributions in the past) are liable to charges for services.'

My emphasis.

Also see - http://www.permanentresident.co.uk/ and http://www.ukpermits.com/visa-types/permanent-residence

From the latter - To keep your permanent residence you should not spend longer than two years outside the UK. You should maintain ties to the UK and should consider the UK as your home.

And from www.gov.uk/living-in-thailand -

Healthcare

Your entitlement to free NHS treatment depends on the length and purpose of your residence in the UK, not your nationality. You must be able to show UK residency to be eligible for free treatment, even if you are a British citizen. The Citizens’ Advice Bureau or NHS can provide further information.

So, basically, he is not likely to be be eligible for FREE NHS treatment if he returns, BUT I have heard of cases when people come back with life-threatening injuries and the rules are ignored.

Good luck to him, but I think he's got a good chance of having to pay ...

Luckily, I am still registered with a UK address and an NHS GP and whenever I go over, I always get a load of blood tests etc done free, but then I have been friends with the practice nurse for years.

Finally, try here for more information on the 'habitual residence test' (which I would fail) -

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/benefits_w/benefits_coming_from_abroad_and_claiming_benefits_hrt/benefits_the_habitual_residence_test_introduction/what_is_the_habitual_residence_test.htm

Thanks for that. There are a lot of changes going on at the moment regarding how the UK treats expats.

I'm sure I read that one of the changes was regarding the right to free NHI treatment, and that the change was that providing you had paid NHI for so many qualifying years you would always be eligible regardless residency for British citizens. When I've got some spare time I'll see if I can dig it out and PM you the details.

I believe anybody born in the U.K. with a N.I. number and any form of employment history will get free national health care regardless of time spent outside of the country. Any guidelines indicating differently were probably drawn up to dissuade non EU residents coming to the UK on medical holidays. This chap would get free medical care and it would be political or professional suicide for any politician or hospital trust to exercise any effort to try and charge him. If he requires long term nursing or residential care whilst receiving a forces/police pension he could in theory have to contribute but would be eligible for full Disability Living Allowance to cover those costs.

[fey]

can he stand up with assistance?

wheel him through the airport and carry/guide him to a first class seat. pretend hes tired and cold and lie him down and start the ventilator. could even get one of those first class capsules on some carriers for privacy.

[Vejo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

can he stand up with assistance?

wheel him through the airport and carry/guide him to a first class seat. pretend hes tired and cold and lie him down and start the ventilator. could even get one of those first class capsules on some carriers for privacy.

The report uses the word paralysed and with the neck being broken and the need for a ventilator to help breathing, it hints at the spinal cord being broken, causng profound loss of sensation and movement of limbs from the neck down. Hopefully but sadly very unlikely the cord is just compressed, sadly it is far more likely the cord is severed and disability permanent as in Christopher Reeves case. Extremely unwise to remove him any distance from full medical assistance,

[3NUMBAS]

another fool rides to his death with no insurance and doubtless no helmet . i just dont have any sympathy

[moobie]

Vejo, in your Post No. 131 you fail to appreciate the view in the UK about expats. Politely speaking it is at best termed, "You made your bed, now lie in it."

There will be very little sympathy for this fellow if he is returned and the element of "political suicide" rests on giving him treatment rather than its denial.

(Try and listen to any debate in the UK (be it radio or TV) about benefits leaving the UK for those abroad and you will find the vast majority would easily deny you folk the winter heating allowance, etc. )

Sorry if the above digresses a tad from the actual subject matter at hand but the UK population in the midst of its austerity drive is often not a happy or forgiving place and the subject of the NHS is a key battleground to be exploited by the body politic.

[keebone]

Wonder what his thoughts would of been upon stopping someone on a motorcycle in UK without insurance and possibly no crash helmet whilst in his previous role as a Police Officer. My thoughts go out to his family but if anyone should of known better!