TAT expects tourism industry to grow next year

[fasteddie]

Somebody doesn't think it will grow next year.

Find out why

[fasteddie]

And I hope it does grow.

For the good of Thailand, for the good of Thai people and the good of foreigners living in this country.

Stop being negative, people, you want as much as I do, this country to prosper.

Not me! Why on earth would I want growth for Thailand?

[fasteddie]

The anathema to any restricted society as such in the movie Game of Thrones is unrestricted contact with people from outside that society. While there may be language and cultural barriers between citizens and different nationalities, the ideas, behaviors, and culture of foreign tourists will germinate changes within the restrictive society as a natural consequence. That North Korea place such emphasis on cultural and educational isolation to keep its society closed.

Even the rigidly ruled China has now a daily and growing confrontation with ideals of participatory democracy and personal independence. For while it carefully controls foreign visitors into the nation, it cannot insulate its people from exposure to noncommunist ideology when they visit other countries with far greater freedoms such as Japan, Taiwan, Europe, and North America.

So I hope that Thailand tourism explodes next year, not from the Chinese who would be culturally the blind leadly the blind, but from the open and free societies of Western and Oceanic countries. Not for the sake of expanding the Thailand economy but for the sake of expanding the Thai mentality to a more free and vigorous society capable of controlling its own destiny.

All vry well, but Thais from top to bottom do not give a rats for the attitude of foreigners.

[sambum]

The anathema to any restricted society as such in the movie Game of Thrones is unrestricted contact with people from outside that society. While there may be language and cultural barriers between citizens and different nationalities, the ideas, behaviors, and culture of foreign tourists will germinate changes within the restrictive society as a natural consequence. That North Korea place such emphasis on cultural and educational isolation to keep its society closed.

Even the rigidly ruled China has now a daily and growing confrontation with ideals of participatory democracy and personal independence. For while it carefully controls foreign visitors into the nation, it cannot insulate its people from exposure to noncommunist ideology when they visit other countries with far greater freedoms such as Japan, Taiwan, Europe, and North America.

So I hope that Thailand tourism explodes next year, not from the Chinese who would be culturally the blind leadly the blind, but from the open and free societies of Western and Oceanic countries. Not for the sake of expanding the Thailand economy but for the sake of expanding the Thai mentality to a more free and vigorous society capable of controlling its own destiny.

All vry well, but Thais from top to bottom do not give a rats for the attitude of foreigners.

Excerpt from Post #60 (above) "I fear that Thailand will always be a 3rd World Country,"

[John1thru10]

The negative remarks of the farangs you read here are the result of cynicism.

I think most expats living here for a while develop some form of cynicism -

probably because Thailand doesn't move in the direction they would like it to move and because of the new-reports that are mostly just delusional.

But that doesn't mean, that we all don't wish the best for Thailand.

I know only to well the problems foreigners facing within Thailand when married to a Thai because I am married to one. But cynicism that turns everything into a negative perspective as far as the Thai population is concerned doesn’t help.

Point the finger at what is wrong like property rights, visa problems and other issues that don’t exist in other countries. I have lived and worked in the UK for over 20 years and gained dual nationality, so why foreigners with family in this country should not be entitled to the same status is the question?

Whenever I speak with people here in Thailand, be it politicians or business people I have never avoided the subject and been open about it, stating that I find it wrong how we treat foreigners that have family links in the country and contribute towards our society.

Anyway, I wish you a Merry Christmas (I am Buddhist but got used to the custom during my time in Europe).

ThaiUser, first of all, a very happy Christmas and New Year to you.

Personally, I love Thailand very dearly. Not just because it is a beautiful landscape, or because of parties. I love Thailand because over the years some of the closest friends I've ever had, are Thai people. As you know more than I, there is a spirit in most Thai people which is unique in the world, and a culture which is nourishing to the heart. I hope this is always preserved, because I think it is a positive example to the world. Not just words, I really feel this way.

I was never a supporter of the Thaksin governments, myself. It is not really my business, either.

There are some things I feel disturbed by, over the last 6 months. Not for 'political' reasons - I am no activist - but simply because I imagine myself to be in the position of the Thai people who I love. One thing, I feel they should not have had their right to vote taken away from them, as citizens. That doesn't mean I agree with their votes, either. I feel that the human right to have some say in a person's own government, in their own country, is not about whether I approve of them or not. I feel a lot of western posters here say things, which sound almost like they imagine themselves to be 'daddy'. I think of the people I see working hard, and doing their best each day in my little neighborhood, and I want them to have the self respect which comes with feeling like grown, adult people.

To go along with that, the crackdown on free-media, I feel, is a very negative development. Again, it's not because I personally agree with everything people would want to say. But, Thai people deserve a voice that way. It is their country, as much as it is the country of the current leaders. That also doesn't mean I disagree with everything the leaders would say, either. But Thailand needs a free press, because that is the most respectful demonstration that Thai people are valued. I am often amazed here, at how posters pretend those simple rights don't 'really matter' for Thai people. Again, those voices are like 'daddy', who feels superior to Thai people.

Finally, it is a different world now, than 2006. Social media is more advanced now, and people learn of things around the world much faster and more directly. That's not going to change. A dear friend of mine runs the Crisis Group for the UN. And, even though they are not an authority over Thailand, she did mention some months back that they are very concerned about human rights sites having been blocked, foreign journalists being threatened for reporting, and things like that. Put that together with a lot of reports (which are not 'delusional' as the fellow above says) about tourists being randomly stopped, searched, harassed and extorted, in Bangkok. Those reports have gone international, and while it has always happened in Thailand, it does seem to have increased.

Put on top of all that, the term 'martial law' - which is not a positive term in the world's view - and immigration becoming extremely aggressive (angry sounding) and rather xenophobic - many statements calling westerners words like criminal, or using words like that throughout a statement - is very negative in the worlds view.

I sincerely hope that Thailand's leaders see the wisdom in becoming more open, instead of more closed, in the months ahead.

John1thru10, thank you for your seasons wishes.

I haven’t voted for Thaksin because I was living in Scotland and could not be bothered to go to my consul or embassy to cast my vote. I didn’t take a lot of interest in Thai politics as I was living Europe.

Not only feel I disturbed by things that have happened over the last 6 month but over the years since I have returned home in 2006 and not only in Thailand believe me. I have not been in support of the coups the military staged during my return to Thailand nor have I supported the unrest and demonstrations caused by red or yellow. None of it did help Thailand and how she is viewed from abroad.

I also believe that free people should have a say in the way they are governed and that voting for or against a government is a fundamental right and not a privilege. That also includes countries with strong links to the US and UK (Middle East) where these rights are not exercised without causing too much concern for the governments of the UK and US.

Social media is a two edged sword even if it is more advanced now as it has been 10 years ago. Often it is used to push one agenda and not too much emphasis is placed on the truth. The blocking of human rights sites is not an invention that has its roots in Thailand but is exercised more or less in many countries around this globe. I also have a friend, a medical doctor that is working for the UN Help the Children Fond and she agrees with me that changes within a system have to come via the education of children, because they will be the next in line to govern a country. Unfortunately education on a global stage has become a secondary issue (not if you listen to politicians but when you look at the resources made available).

The lot of reports about tourists being randomly stopped, searched, harassed and extorted in Bangkok has to be seen in context too (certainly something has to be done about it). Out of over 20.000.000 tourists to Thailand, how many can say they have been randomly stopped or suffered any of the other mentioned injuries? My guess is that it will be far below 1% which doesn’t make it a nation wide problem for tourists.

A few months back I read in the Spiegel (German magazine) and Le Monde (French paper) about tourists from their countries being killed in one case, and being attacked in South America in the other case whilst on holidays (might come to a blow for the ‘daddies’ that feel superior to Thai people that some Thai can read, write and speak foreign languages). It didn’t cause that kind of media outcry as it seems when it comes to Thailand. I put it down to the fact that these countries don’t have a close nit community of expats that via emails or comments influence the free media. I have followed Thai events in the foreign papers and how they are reported. The British media I found is quite open to suggestions from sources out of Thailand that in same cases have been based on fiction but not on facts.

Martial law is never a positive thing and neither are curfews (which are similar to martial law) that have been placed on US communities where rioting and violence has occurred – it is very negative in the worlds view too. But what is the alternative? Lift martial law and curfews and let the people fight it out, or try to get something in place and once it is lifted people can argue it out without resorting to violence?

I don't believe it's right to excuse human rights abuses, by simply saying that there are worse places in the world, or citing small examples from somewhere else. And people do it on this forum all the time. It sets the bar extremely low for responsibility, and is actually a very cynical approach to the world. It sounds a little bit like, 'I didn't hit you so hard, to stop complaining. I could hit you harder.' That is the excuse of an abuser.

Comparing Thailand's martial law to the US is also not accurate. The US recently imposed a curfew for a few nights, during rioting. And, there were nation wide protests about that curfew, to follow. Such protests would not be allowed in Thailand, to begin with. And, as I said, it was a curfew for a few nights. Thailand has been under martial law for 6 months now, and plans to continue without stop. Those 2 examples are not actually comparable at alll.

While it's true about education being very important, I believe it is extremely irresponsible to simply say, 'Well, maybe in 20 years something good will happen when the next generation comes', as that implies that people today don't matter so much. Again, very cynical.

While police harassment and intimidation/extortion may not be considered a 'national crisis' by Thailand, this is a thread about tourism. And, tourists do not like that news. If that intimidation and corruption continue as they have the last months, it will make it worse. It is happening enough now that there are several facebook pages devoted to the subject (as of this last month), and numerous threads here, as well as articles which have been followed internationally. That, plus foreigners being considered guilty until proven innocent by immigration is hurting the economy greatly.

Edited December 26, 2014 by John1thru10

[ThaiUser]

# 65

First of all I don’t excuse human rights abuses but should be permitted to point out that it is not a singularity specific to Thailand but is done on a global scale. Only in Thailand’s case it seems to be more publicised against similar abuses in western countries.

I don’t compare our martial law to the US curfews only state that both are bad when looking at them from the outside. I am not fond of them but ask the question what are the options? Martial law, curfew or public rioting and fighting? By the way the UK (not Scotland) has a law that allows police to bail people to attend demonstrations. That law (yesterday’s news in the UK) is under review since the police in Britain have used it to ensure that innocent people couldn’t participate in lawful demonstrations. They have been banned from entering universities or meetings that exceeded a certain amount of people. Sounds familiar? How would it be if Thailand had laws that actually would allow to target specific groups and ban them from demonstrations for months or even years without judicial review?

Education is important and I haven’t said that we have to wait 20 years before we change our system in Thailand. Certainly we require change now, but that has to be done by people that don’t really believe in democracy (that is my feeling and I point the finger here at all parties involved) and we have to have mechanism installed that prevent them from moving the process off the rails again. But in 20 years time the people that have gone through the education system and have been taught what democracy actually means don’t require these mechanism anymore because democracy will be something that comes natural.

Police harassment and intimidation/extortion is a subject that should be dealt with as I have made quite clear. However the amount of tourists that visit the country and the incidents that occur don’t make it a subject that is as great as being placed on the face book pages or websites you mention. Here I agree with you that social media are more advanced today and that they make problems like these more known to a global audience. I have friends in Europe that have experienced the opposite, cases where the police helped tourists not only to get their property back but in other difficult situations. Unfortunately these actions in most cases doesn’t find an entry on a face book page or on a blog.