Why is Thailand such a success compared to the Philippines?

[dbrenn]

Because Manila is such a dump.

[EmptyHead]

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Geography is a big part of it.

Thailand is the perfect base for Asean travel.

Flipland is a bunch of islands well into the sea!

Bali is an island and does well

Does well in what?

The Balinese (and Indonesians in general) have a much lower standard of living than Thais, even Isaan Thais.

Bali is tourist island does a lot better than any other Non Thai islands in SEA.

That Bali is overpopulated because there religion demands a lot children is another problem not related to the popularity (actually it makes it less popular).

Non-Thai island?....This thread is about Thailand!

Bali doesn't even beat most other Indonesian islands http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indonesian_provinces_by_GRP_per_capita

I don't understand the rest of the waffle.

[Zlabermacht]

Of course it is not only one determining factor, as some people like to suppose, but rather a combination of many historical, cultural, social, economical, geographical and geopolitical factors.
Some of these factors are probably more crucial than others, but I think that it is, in the end, a matter of personal opinion to determine what these factors are.
It depends on the cultural background of the observer: an economist would probably disagree with a sociologist, an historian would still have another opinion and an anthropologist would perhaps call them all wrong.
Being the curious ignorant that I am, I personally think it has not to be undervalued the incidence of the Chinese migration in Thai society. The Thai elite, both in the private and the public sector, is mostly made by people of Chinese descent. In the last century there was, and there's still today, a huge economical force in Thai economy coming from China, both in terms of wealth and in terms of leadership. To give you a measure of it, 1 Thai over 7 is ethnically Chinese, or mixed with Chinese, and the majority of them reside in the urban and economical centers.
Even the largely famous, capillary Thai manufacturing sector, the small commerce, the familial and small businesses network, is mostly run by the Chinese-Thais, just like, say, the farming and the industrial workforce is mostly Thai.
Culturally and economically speaking, the leading head of the Thai emerging middle class have an important component of China in it. Government offices, Universities, multinational companies' high ranks, are full of wealthy and well educated Chinese-Thais.
I don't know very much of the Philippines, but I know in South East Asia only Malaysia (which is by the way another relatively successful economy) have a "Chinese factor" which is comparable to the Thai one (excluding countries which are basically China's satellites, such as Singapore and Hong Kong).
In the Philippines, only 1 person over 100 has a Chinese origin.
I'm not necessarily implying that the Chinese people have some sort of 'magic touch' for business, or that they are smarter, or so... but migration can be a very strong input for development and growth: Thailand had it, the Philippines didn't.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Zlabermacht

[bonobo]

Ask again in 5 years.

Huh? In 5 years, there will be an even bigger gap. I can cite a number of reasons including overpopulation, chronic corruption, crime, etc. But if there was one thing that is preventing the Filipinos from prospering...I'd say it is the Catholic church. Sorry to say, but it seems that in every country in the world (outside of Italy) with a dominant Catholic religion, that country is mired in poverty and corruption. Even Italy has problems.

Like Luxembourg, France, Poland, Austria, Monaco, Andorra, Chile, Portugal, Malta. etc.?

[DeaconJohn]

Thailand is lucky.

No, it's more than that.

Recent history doesn't explain it either.

Work ethic - as already mentioned - and the fact that the average Thai is more intelligent [especially the women] than the average Filipino.

[RichardThailand]

Because Manila is such a dump.

I'm really thinking more of the past and trying to wondering what people think went wrong. Fifty years ago Manila and the Philippines was I believe considered the jewel of Asia.

http://mypandacan.com/archives/2317

I agree it is a dump now and I'm sure that factors in the way things will work out in the future.

[Pacificperson]

I think one reason is safety for foreign investors. Thailand is fairly gun free and safe. For a long time, potential Taiwanese and Japanese investors were being kidnapped in the P.R. After mainland China opened-up, there was no need to take the risks - physical and financial - involved in investing in the P.R.

[Crazy chef 1]

because PH don't have TAT...

[swissie]

I'll be interested to see where Thailand is in ten or fifteen years. As HeijoshinCool said, they got a big bump from the Vietnam war. The US poured money and technology into the country as Thailand allowed the US to use air bases. Later it brought in a lot of manufacturing. Thailand and the US have been friends and allies since just after WWII right up until about NOW.

The US isn't going to put up with this China alliance and has already pulled a lot of income away from Thailand since the coup. I don't expect Japan to put up with the China alliance either and the US and Japan are close.

If the US and Japan pull significant manufacturing out of Thailand and move it to Burma, Thailand will be hurting. The US and Japan already bought huge tracts of land in Yangon, and Japan promised to build a deep water port there. This was over Yingluck's behavior. Imagine what they think of the current government's moves.

Thailand has had it's Marcos. Thaksin and Yingluck robbed the country blind and left it deeply in debt and not just over the rice scheme. They at least temporarily destroyed the rice export business.

Thailand is slipping. It's stupidity, greed and corruption is catching up with its economy from rice to tourism. Next if it loses the US and Japan as Cambodia, Vietnam and Burma take business, it could slip a long way down. I'm not predicting anything, I just see the possibility.

As usual, in agreement. EXEPT: While Thaksin and sister "plundered the country", during the "plundering-process" , the poorest of the poor felt for the first time in their lives, that during the "Plundering-Phase" by Thaksin, some crumbs were falling off the table of corruption in their favor. Infrastructure: Roads were built, electrification of isolated villages. etc. etc. Unheard of before.

The impoverished Thai's (the red-shirts) have understood, that they will be ruled by some sort of Elite for the next 2 generations. But they will certainly prefer to be ruled by a corrupt Elite, that allows for some "crumbs" to fall off the table in their favor. They also know that there will be no "crumbs" falling off the table, as long as "the General" and his yellow-shirt- entourage sits at the table exclusively and with the sole purpose to cement the Feudalistic- Power-Structure that they prefer to call "Thainess".

Interesting times ahead. Cheers.

[Robby nz]

I'll be interested to see where Thailand is in ten or fifteen years. As HeijoshinCool said, they got a big bump from the Vietnam war. The US poured money and technology into the country as Thailand allowed the US to use air bases. Later it brought in a lot of manufacturing. Thailand and the US have been friends and allies since just after WWII right up until about NOW.

The US isn't going to put up with this China alliance and has already pulled a lot of income away from Thailand since the coup. I don't expect Japan to put up with the China alliance either and the US and Japan are close.

If the US and Japan pull significant manufacturing out of Thailand and move it to Burma, Thailand will be hurting. The US and Japan already bought huge tracts of land in Yangon, and Japan promised to build a deep water port there. This was over Yingluck's behavior. Imagine what they think of the current government's moves.

Thailand has had it's Marcos. Thaksin and Yingluck robbed the country blind and left it deeply in debt and not just over the rice scheme. They at least temporarily destroyed the rice export business.

Thailand is slipping. It's stupidity, greed and corruption is catching up with its economy from rice to tourism. Next if it loses the US and Japan as Cambodia, Vietnam and Burma take business, it could slip a long way down. I'm not predicting anything, I just see the possibility.

As usual, in agreement. EXEPT: While Thaksin and sister "plundered the country", during the "plundering-process" , the poorest of the poor felt for the first time in their lives, that during the "Plundering-Phase" by Thaksin, some crumbs were falling off the table of corruption in their favor. Infrastructure: Roads were built, electrification of isolated villages. etc. etc. Unheard of before.

The impoverished Thai's (the red-shirts) have understood, that they will be ruled by some sort of Elite for the next 2 generations. But they will certainly prefer to be ruled by a corrupt Elite, that allows for some "crumbs" to fall off the table in their favor. They also know that there will be no "crumbs" falling off the table, as long as "the General" and his yellow-shirt- entourage sits at the table exclusively and with the sole purpose to cement the Feudalistic- Power-Structure that they prefer to call "Thainess".

Interesting times ahead. Cheers.

So you've managed to bring junta bashing into this topic.

But shows a lot of ignorance to what is going on, ask the farmers who have now been paid for their rice or the people of Issan who will benefit from the proposed rail link.

You might like to tell us about the "Crumbs" that the poor got from the Yingluck administration that have left them deeper in debt than ever before.

[princessazuma]

It's the Pinoy mentality that's putting the Philippines down. They generally prefer to be employees than become entrepreneurs. They usually don't like to take risks. Filipinos are good social beings... singers, dancers, English language speakers. Thai people are generally good in math, have better business acumen, and are not afraid to invest in business.

[RichardThailand]

It's the Pinoy mentality that's putting the Philippines down. They generally prefer to be employees than become entrepreneurs. They usually don't like to take risks. Filipinos are good social beings... singers, dancers, English language speakers. Thai people are generally good in math, have better business acumen, and are not afraid to invest in business.

99% of the ones I have met unfortunately did not have enough money to even start to dream of being an entrepreneurs. When you are employed in a minimum wage job wich keeps you poor and unable to find enough money for food it's hard to think about starting a business.

[losgrad]

Corruption and greed exist in every country, but the Philippines top % are more greedy with more corruption.

[mitsubishi]

-snip-

Flipland is a bunch of islands well into the sea!

So is Japan.

Japan has Japanese living in it though

They also modernized a lot quicker than Thailand did and looted a lot of plunder after WW2, giving them a leg-up over other countries.

[mitsubishi]

Of course it is not only one determining factor, as some people like to suppose, but rather a combination of many historical, cultural, social, economical, geographical and geopolitical factors.

Some of these factors are probably more crucial than others, but I think that it is, in the end, a matter of personal opinion to determine what these factors are.

It depends on the cultural background of the observer: an economist would probably disagree with a sociologist, an historian would still have another opinion and an anthropologist would perhaps call them all wrong.

Being the curious ignorant that I am, I personally think it has not to be undervalued the incidence of the Chinese migration in Thai society. The Thai elite, both in the private and the public sector, is mostly made by people of Chinese descent. In the last century there was, and there's still today, a huge economical force in Thai economy coming from China, both in terms of wealth and in terms of leadership. To give you a measure of it, 1 Thai over 7 is ethnically Chinese, or mixed with Chinese, and the majority of them reside in the urban and economical centers.

Even the largely famous, capillary Thai manufacturing sector, the small commerce, the familial and small businesses network, is mostly run by the Chinese-Thais, just like, say, the farming and the industrial workforce is mostly Thai.

Culturally and economically speaking, the leading head of the Thai emerging middle class have an important component of China in it. Government offices, Universities, multinational companies' high ranks, are full of wealthy and well educated Chinese-Thais.

I don't know very much of the Philippines, but I know in South East Asia only Malaysia (which is by the way another relatively successful economy) have a "Chinese factor" which is comparable to the Thai one (excluding countries which are basically China's satellites, such as Singapore and Hong Kong).

In the Philippines, only 1 person over 100 has a Chinese origin.

I'm not necessarily implying that the Chinese people have some sort of 'magic touch' for business, or that they are smarter, or so... but migration can be a very strong input for development and growth: Thailand had it, the Philippines didn't.

The Thai people were from Chinese lands in the south of China from the start. The later waves of Chinese immigration augmented the Thai stock so to speak. The homogenous effects it produced were a good catalyst for the future of Thailand.

However the migration to The Philippines was a different tale. You had a European force of mostly male men that migrated to an archipelago with an entirely foreign population racially. Over the centuries as this went on this wasn't a strong input for success and competing against the other Asian powers. So I'd add that the mingling of the blood didn't produce any 'hybrid-vigor' much beloved by cultural marxists, but in fact sowed the seeds of confusion, apathy and docility. The Catholic religion, another stranger to these people is something very remote and distant. It isn't as tangible than the Asian blend of Buddhism of Jainism etc.

In Argentina for example it's a different story. They are probably on course to be one of the great successes of the southern hemisphere, yet that is also Catholic...

[beechguy]

Vietnam war.

Yes, but the PI had Subic and Clark AFB, etc. Maybe the distribution of the bases in Thailand that made a difference.

[Smithwick]

Flip isles: raped by Spain and renamed their country after King Phillip, took away their surnames and replaced by Spanish ones.

Thailand: Never been conquered and has a written language.

Or maybe Flips focus too much on dancing and not enough on education and intellectual pursuits.

[321Rich]

My two cents on this subject:

The Philippines is clearly and forever locked into the “Third World Country” mindset for many reason. In my humble opinion the root cause for this is Over Population (hardly no one works and the Catholic Church encourages everyone to breed like rabbits.) The primary food source of the Philippines is eating rice three times a day. Thailand and Vietnam provided about 90% of the rice consumed in the Philippines. Even I can see something wrong with that picture.

—

The Philippines loves to brag about being 7,000 Tropical “Paradise” islands. That is both an asset and a flat-out curse.

--- How screwed up do you think Thailand would be if you chopped it into thousands of pieces and moved each new island many kilometers apart? Forget the Philippines’s 7,000 islands (most of them are just volcanic rocks sticking out of the water at high tide. Of the Philippines' 7,107 islands, only 1,190 are inhabited. with most of the people crowded onto perhaps 20 islands). So for this little mental exercise, chop Thailand into say 50 islands and separate each island by many kilometers of ocean. Presto — you have the Philippines 2.0. Forget the roads, trains, electrical power lines, even telephone lines, and now you get a clearer picture of problems facing the Philippines. Add to that equation the fact that the Philippines ranks third on the list of most disaster prone countries in the world.

[balo]

It's all to do with the mentality of the people and IMHO nothing to do with the US.

Flippers don't have the work ethic of Thais. Considering most Flippers speak English you would think this was an advantage but it isn't.

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

Even China has problems competing with Thailand in certain industries.

However Thailand has reached a plateau at the moment but once the politics are sorted out I see no reason for it not to move forward.

I know many Filipinos that will disagree with you , the people I know work really hard , one of the best people you can hire as crew on ships , the Filipino teachers I know working in Bangkok are not more lazy than the Thai teachers, thats for sure.

Yes they do have the work ethics in Phills , but they also struggle with poverty and corruption everywhere.

Edited December 26, 2014 by balo

[slipperylobster]

Vietnam war.

Yes, but the PI had Subic and Clark AFB, etc. Maybe the distribution of the bases in Thailand that made a difference.

Previously to that, the Japanese had bases (for a while) in both countries as well. The Philippines being more victimized, but put up a good Guerilla Warfare resistance. Unlike Thailand. There are many decendants (grandmother to my son) from that era.

Allied forces, as we know, were all over Burma, Malaysia, Philippines, and the South Pacific. There were positive benefits to these regions. Like the fact that they do not speak Japanese so well, nor pay homage to the Japanese Emperor. Not to mention the trade advantages/alliances and treaties that pretty much led to the Westernization of these regions.

As far as the Vietnam War....the bases in the Philippines were in direct support, and were just as active in their missions as the bases in Thailand. Also served as Rest and Recuperation area...same like here.

Edited December 26, 2014 by slipperylobster

[slipperylobster]

It's all to do with the mentality of the people and IMHO nothing to do with the US.

Flippers don't have the work ethic of Thais. Considering most Flippers speak English you would think this was an advantage but it isn't.

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

Even China has problems competing with Thailand in certain industries.

However Thailand has reached a plateau at the moment but once the politics are sorted out I see no reason for it not to move forward.

I know many Filipinos that will disagree with you , the people I know work really hard , one of the best people you can hire as crew on ships , the Filipino teachers I know working in Bangkok are not more lazy than the Thai teachers, thats for sure.

Yes they do have the work ethics in Phills , but they also struggle with poverty and corruption everywhere.

A great number of Filipinos/Filipinas serve in The US military (mainly the Navy). I was amazed at the number of Navy Corpsmen who were Filipino. Navy Corpsmen serve as Medics for the US Marines. They are the ones saving the lives of the Marines in Combat. Not such a lazy job.

[ATF]

It's all to do with the mentality of the people and IMHO nothing to do with the US.

Flippers don't have the work ethic of Thais. Considering most Flippers speak English you would think this was an advantage but it isn't.

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

Even China has problems competing with Thailand in certain industries.

However Thailand has reached a plateau at the moment but once the politics are sorted out I see no reason for it not to move forward.

I know many Filipinos that will disagree with you , the people I know work really hard , one of the best people you can hire as crew on ships , the Filipino teachers I know working in Bangkok are not more lazy than the Thai teachers, thats for sure.

Yes they do have the work ethics in Phills , but they also struggle with poverty and corruption everywhere.

Most companies in Thailand are Chinese owned and as others have said the Chinese know how to do business.

One my visits I've found them to be a lazy bunch that are mostly only suitable as employees.

They are like poor people the World over. Instead of ramping up their game they cut back and eat recycled garbage called Pak Pak. Google it and puke.

How many Filipino multinationals are there - San Miguel?

Water used to be more expensive than Coke and Coke was more expensive than beer.

Why does every convenience store have guards with shotguns or automatic weapons. It's a cesspit.

[Berkshire]

Ask again in 5 years.

Huh? In 5 years, there will be an even bigger gap. I can cite a number of reasons including overpopulation, chronic corruption, crime, etc. But if there was one thing that is preventing the Filipinos from prospering...I'd say it is the Catholic church. Sorry to say, but it seems that in every country in the world (outside of Italy) with a dominant Catholic religion, that country is mired in poverty and corruption. Even Italy has problems.

Like Luxembourg, France, Poland, Austria, Monaco, Andorra, Chile, Portugal, Malta. etc.?

I was thinking more along the lines of Mexico, Brazil, Columbia, Honduras, Venezuela....i.e., all of Latin America. Perhaps I should rephrase to say non-Anglo countries with a dominant Roman Catholic religion. Or do you think the PI and these other countries has prospered under the Vatican?

[chris2004]

It's all to do with the mentality of the people and IMHO nothing to do with the US.

Flippers don't have the work ethic of Thais. Considering most Flippers speak English you would think this was an advantage but it isn't.

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

Even China has problems competing with Thailand in certain industries.

However Thailand has reached a plateau at the moment but once the politics are sorted out I see no reason for it not to move forward.

"the work ethic of thais' that's a good one.

[samran]

If you think power and wealth in Thailand is controlled by an elite, the Philippines take it to another level. Thailand is practically a meritocratic nirvana in comparison.

Add to the fact that their biggest export seems to be their human capital, then the country doesn't get to benefit from the productivity gains that come from an indigenous workforce taking the economy to the next level.

Structurally Thailand benefited from some enlightened policy making especially in the 80s and 90s. Policies that gave Thailand the Eastern sea board, an export led economy, a first rate energy grid, and SE Asia's most substantial OG sector after Singapore.

Thailand biggest challenge is to make productivity gains in the next two decades. This will primarily come from the on going albeit slow reform of the sclerotic SOE sector, ensuring energy diversity, and better implantation of competition law.

Edited December 27, 2014 by samran

[Ulysses G.]

I haven't visited PI in more than 20 years, but it was very dangerous back then and Thailand was/is not. I would have never even considered living in the Philippines and as soon as I got to Thailand, I knew this is where I wanted to stay.

[NeverSure]

I think one reason is safety for foreign investors. Thailand is fairly gun free and safe. For a long time, potential Taiwanese and Japanese investors were being kidnapped in the P.R. After mainland China opened-up, there was no need to take the risks - physical and financial - involved in investing in the P.R.

Thailand has the third highest gun murder rate per capita in the world. 2.5X that of The Philippines. LINK

[IMA_FARANG]

That's actually a silly question.

The fact is they are not.

In Thailand the data ......what they like to call "the economic indicators", are manipulated by an elite that are trying to control those indicators for their own interests.

Newspaper in Thailand print what this elite money group wants them to.

The business news in Thai news papers id full of "good news" to give a biased picture of how healthy the "Thai economy" is.

It's mostly BS they print, especially for the foreigners to read.

In Thailand, (as in other countries also) you need to keep the 80% rule in mind.

Note: The 80% rule is:

80% of everything you see. hear, or read is B------t.

[Assurancetourix]

Flip isles: raped by Spain and renamed their country after King Phillip, took away their surnames and replaced by Spanish ones.

Thailand: Never been conquered and has a written language.

Or maybe Flips focus too much on dancing and not enough on education and intellectual pursuits.

It's time for you to stop reading historical books made in Thailand ;

They were always colonised ; by Khmer - explain me why there are so many Khmer castles in Issan ? - , by burma, by lao people ; and after in the centuries by portuguese, english and french Royal Navies ..

Always they have, they must sign treaty of alliance or peace treaty ...

For the thai government the naval Koh_Chang battle ( 1941 ) is a thai victory ... greta distorsion with the real facts...

and in the new books about history of Thailand all about Thaksin and his family doesn't exists....

About it's written language it's coming from sanscrit ( India ) and before that it was chinese language that only a very few people can read and write.

[bonobo]

Ask again in 5 years.

Huh? In 5 years, there will be an even bigger gap. I can cite a number of reasons including overpopulation, chronic corruption, crime, etc. But if there was one thing that is preventing the Filipinos from prospering...I'd say it is the Catholic church. Sorry to say, but it seems that in every country in the world (outside of Italy) with a dominant Catholic religion, that country is mired in poverty and corruption. Even Italy has problems.

Like Luxembourg, France, Poland, Austria, Monaco, Andorra, Chile, Portugal, Malta. etc.?

I was thinking more along the lines of Mexico, Brazil, Columbia, Honduras, Venezuela....i.e., all of Latin America. Perhaps I should rephrase to say non-Anglo countries with a dominant Roman Catholic religion. Or do you think the PI and these other countries has prospered under the Vatican?

No, I just don't think the Vatican has that much impact on the economy. There are plenty of non-Roman Catholic-majority countries in the world that are not particularly well-off. Blaming the Roman Catholic Church for the situation in the Philippines is specious, in my opinion.

The country was mostly Roman Catholic before Marcos when the Philippines was the third largest economy in East Asia (and 19th in the world). Their religion didn't seem to get in the way of their development then.