If Thai woman has a farang hubbie, does she get derided by other Thais?

[catmaninoz]

Race/nationality are the same thing.

They are absolutely not the same thing

They are when they are used for discriminatory purposes.

Saying "i prefer whites over blacks" is exactly the same as "i prefer europeans over africans".

There is no difference.

Its racism.

Deal with it.

Edited December 31, 2014 by catmaninoz

[Mossfinn]

Race/nationality are the same thing.

They are absolutely not the same thing

They are when they are used for discriminatory purposes.

Saying "i prefer whites over blacks" is exactly the same as "i prefer europeans over africans".

There is no difference.

Its racism.

Deal with it.

I was going to ask you to go into more detail, but I see you have edited it, so I will deal with your post.

But later, I have to deal with the kids, which is slightly more important.

[Mossfinn]

Just quickly...

Whites over blacks is racist, but is not a nationality

Europeans over Africans, is slightly more confusing, which is racist and obviously Nationality based, but who on Earth would say it, both groupings are made up of all sub sections.

It would be a very strange thing to say.

[catmaninoz]

Pick any euro and any african country and replace the continents. A simple way to generalise went straight over your head.

Twisting and turning does not make it not racism.

Discriminating against any nation is racist.

Edited December 31, 2014 by catmaninoz

[zeichen]

Of course race and nationality are not the same thing. However racism is defined as comments regarding one's race, nationality, ethnicity, or culture. All comments/action/attitude that focus/separate on anyone of those areas is a form of racism.

Some of the attitudes that women face for marrying outside of their culture/ethnic background/nationality/race can be subtle but still prejudicial. For example my wife who is a very articulate woman and diligent in her academics often gets comments like "well of course you are good at English, your husband is a native speaker". or "Well not all of us have the luxury of a foreign husband to do our work for us."

A lot of these comments are used to make themselves feel better for their own inadequacies but they are still hurtful. It really pisses my wife off when she works very hard to do her job and others that are not as good dismiss her ability because her husband is a foreigner.

The same can be said for those that study abroad. I had a colleague once who spent 1 year in Australia and when I commented on her excellent academic ability and writing other Thais said "of course she lived in Australia"

To be frank though most people will not judge a woman or think that she comes from "the bar world" even if she marries a foreigner unless she acts like it. Most Thais can tell someone's education, social class and nature just by the way they speak. Not unlike most of us could tell a redneck from a metrosexual.

[catmaninoz]

Your second sentence contradicts your first.

[zeichen]

Read deeper. There is no contradiction at all. Racism covers all even though individually they are all slightly different. Get it now?

[Mossfinn]

Pick any euro and any african country and replace the continents. A simple way to generalise went straight over your head.

Twisting and turning does not make it not racism.

Discriminating against any nation is racist.

Went straight over my head!

Oh dear, I think I will leave you to it.

To paraphrase Rachel from 'Friends', banging your head against something hard, is only worth it when it's a head board.

[catmaninoz]

That was my point.

[catmaninoz]

Pick any euro and any african country and replace the continents. A simple way to generalise went straight over your head.

Twisting and turning does not make it not racism.

Discriminating against any nation is racist.

Went straight over my head!

Oh dear, I think I will leave you to it.

To paraphrase Rachel from 'Friends', banging your head against something hard, is only worth it when it's a head board.

What does this even mean?

You give up?

[Mossfinn]

Has it gone over your head?

If you really want to believe that Race and Nationality are the same carry on.

[sdanielmcev]

For all those discussing and debating the qualities of Thai women of various social classes, I am sure many here would give a vital organ in order to spend time with these class acts from the United States.

britney_spears_red_lips3.jpgparis.jpgrs_634x1024-140201174058-634.Kim-Kardashian-New-Brunette-hair.jl.020114.jpg

Nope. I don't do skanks.

[catmaninoz]

Has it gone over your head?

If you really want to believe that Race and Nationality are the same carry on.

When it comes to racism, if it discriminates against any race or nationality, it is defined as racism.

Same with ethnicity.

Its all social constructs to help you discriminate.

Can you see the forrest for all the trees yet?

If you discriminate, on race or nationality, you are being racist. By definition.

Deal with it.

[Mossfinn]

Carry On..............

[catmaninoz]

There is nothing else to say. I will try to make it simpler for yourself.

When it comes to racism, race and nationality are interchangeable labels so are the same.

Its the discrimination that ties it together.

You gonna hate based on where someone comes from you are racist.

Deal with it.

[Mossfinn]

Carry On..........

[catmaninoz]

Are you all there upstairs?

Or is that a pop culture reference from the 60s you archaic bigot.

[Thaiberius]

Any Thai woman who gets seriously involved with a foreigner has some explaining to do.

To whom, and exactly what the nature of this explanation involves depends almost entirely upon her family's position or their perceived position in the food chain.

The Thai hierarchical system is the key here.

The higher her family's position, the daughter of a doctor or a prominent businessman, the more explaining she will have to do.

The lower her family's position, the daughter of a sam lor driver or a sharecropper, the less explaining she will have to do.

This should be evident to all parties from the outset.

If it is not evident, or if the need for explanation is blurred and obscured primarily by physical attraction and emotion there will be blowback in direct proportion to the woman's family's social standing.

I have heard of Thai fathers and heads of family actually begging and imploring a foreigner to consider abandoning marriage plans.

After a nice lunch another father invited his daughter's boyfriend back to his office.

Over coffee he pulled file folders of three years credit card receipts from his desk drawer, placed them squarely in front of the prospective groom.

He then asked him point blank if he was prepared to take over and support his daughter's shopping habits in addition to the normal responsibilities of raising a family. He added that although he hadn't spoiled his daughters he had always approved of their spending habits as a protection against inappropriate matrimonial choices.

At the other end of the scale we have all heard of entire villages in Thailand's agricultural hinterlands celebrating the good fortune that comes from their daughter landing a farang tuna.

Kind of works like that.

and i have friends married into wealthy families where the heads of the thai families came to them and suggested the connection!

I'm guessing you don't know many at all who have been propositioned in this way. Maybe even none?

[LuckyLew]

Your Thai partner should not give a toss what others think

I have a much younger Thai GF and we have a daughter together.

Those that she cares about the most know she is happy and that is all that matters

Sure we get funny looks at times but neither us cares, their opinions and thoughts are not important to us

[micmichd]

Derision by other Thais would be a direct function of the wealth of the farang hubby.

Up to a certain threshold this might be true. This threshold is usually fixed as dowry.

Beyond this threshold the Farang would be suspect to be a butterfly (mess around with other women) Material wealth can be over very fast if waisted.

I guess the key to it all is reliability that provides some social security, like a good pension.

[Bangkokhatter]

Just wasted an hour on this. Asked the wife what she thought....her answer....some people darling.

I think thats about right.

[Donnie Brasco]

Any Thai woman who gets seriously involved with a foreigner has some explaining to do.

To whom, and exactly what the nature of this explanation involves depends almost entirely upon her family's position or their perceived position in the food chain.

The Thai hierarchical system is the key here.

The higher her family's position, the daughter of a doctor or a prominent businessman, the more explaining she will have to do.

The lower her family's position, the daughter of a sam lor driver or a sharecropper, the less explaining she will have to do.

This should be evident to all parties from the outset.

If it is not evident, or if the need for explanation is blurred and obscured primarily by physical attraction and emotion there will be blowback in direct proportion to the woman's family's social standing.

I have heard of Thai fathers and heads of family actually begging and imploring a foreigner to consider abandoning marriage plans.

After a nice lunch another father invited his daughter's boyfriend back to his office.

Over coffee he pulled file folders of three years credit card receipts from his desk drawer, placed them squarely in front of the prospective groom.

He then asked him point blank if he was prepared to take over and support his daughter's shopping habits in addition to the normal responsibilities of raising a family. He added that although he hadn't spoiled his daughters he had always approved of their spending habits as a protection against inappropriate matrimonial choices.

At the other end of the scale we have all heard of entire villages in Thailand's agricultural hinterlands celebrating the good fortune that comes from their daughter landing a farang tuna.

Kind of works like that.

and i have friends married into wealthy families where the heads of the thai families came to them and suggested the connection!

I'm guessing you don't know many at all who have been propositioned in this way. Maybe even none?

I was not the author

[Donnie Brasco]

Yep, some people.

I'm guessing you don't know many at all who have been propositioned in this way. Maybe even none?

Are you talking to me ?

I was not the author of that unattributed last line regarding the commenter's unattributed claim to having his unattributed friend(S) propositioned in this way. (One gets used to this type of self-congratulatory "truthiness" on TV.)

I do know of one gal whose previous "whirlwind pregnancy" by an unsuitable THAI boyfriend led to this kind of proposition from her mother who after a long conversation in English cited the difference in cultures as a positive thing. My friend was wise to decline her mother's kind offer. It was a perfectly sane decent proposal; genuine sincere heartfelt offer from a Thai mother who likely knew how cruel things can get.

Bangkok chat rooms were full of this sort of thing fifteen years ago when not everybody could afford a computer and so, perforce, it was left to adventurous middle class to affluent young things to experiment with their English or French or Spanish or whatever.

I know of other young women whose experimental stage had been piqued by "Internet surfing" in the late nineties.

This stuff was happening all over the globosphere and middle class Thailand was no exception.

The Langsuan Starbucks was a favourite meeting place.

Although these rendez-vous were more often than not innocent giggle-fests, some were not.

In many cases parents were scandalized.

[micmichd]

Donnie:

Do you mean the Thai father left this woman after she became pregnant?

Things like this seem to happen quite often in Thailand, in fact that happened to my gf, and we're just trying to find a way out.

[AYJAYDEE]

Any Thai woman who gets seriously involved with a foreigner has some explaining to do.

To whom, and exactly what the nature of this explanation involves depends almost entirely upon her family's position or their perceived position in the food chain.

The Thai hierarchical system is the key here.

The higher her family's position, the daughter of a doctor or a prominent businessman, the more explaining she will have to do.

The lower her family's position, the daughter of a sam lor driver or a sharecropper, the less explaining she will have to do.

This should be evident to all parties from the outset.

If it is not evident, or if the need for explanation is blurred and obscured primarily by physical attraction and emotion there will be blowback in direct proportion to the woman's family's social standing.

I have heard of Thai fathers and heads of family actually begging and imploring a foreigner to consider abandoning marriage plans.

After a nice lunch another father invited his daughter's boyfriend back to his office.

Over coffee he pulled file folders of three years credit card receipts from his desk drawer, placed them squarely in front of the prospective groom.

He then asked him point blank if he was prepared to take over and support his daughter's shopping habits in addition to the normal responsibilities of raising a family. He added that although he hadn't spoiled his daughters he had always approved of their spending habits as a protection against inappropriate matrimonial choices.

At the other end of the scale we have all heard of entire villages in Thailand's agricultural hinterlands celebrating the good fortune that comes from their daughter landing a farang tuna.

Kind of works like that.

and i have friends married into wealthy families where the heads of the thai families came to them and suggested the connection!

I'm guessing you don't know many at all who have been propositioned in this way. Maybe even none?

did i say many?

[Donnie Brasco]

Do thais discriminate against a thai woman with a farang boyfriend/husband?

Yes and they sometimes openly comment about it also (but this is rare). However if you are in her home village it won't be too bad, you'd probably just be seen as a patron-farang.

Typically Thais in mainstream circles tend to consider a women who marries a foreigner to be of low-status or even a prostitute. It won't be derogatory though it will be just matter-of-fact to them.

For the last sixty years or so people of the quaint riverine village of krungthepmahanakhornetcetcetc have been doing just that.

Well-travelled, well-read, well-heeled, urbane, sophisticated, cosmopolitan, critically-thinking Thais would disagree with you.

There are (at last "count") millions of them.

Millions

Edited January 1, 2015 by Donnie Brasco

[Kenny202]

I haven't experienced any of these things even though I expected to after much reading and others experiences. Maybe I've been lucky. Don't send money to family, have a great fun relationship with the missus and don't feel like a stupid tag along buffalo with the family. My wife isn't a money grubber and I just about have to force her to buy something when we're out. She has no access to my real money and knows she never will and I have also told her will never get a registered marriage so she's not motivated by money. Most of the good Isaan people I meet seem surprised that I give them the time of day which humbles me. I seem to be afforded respect everywhere I go even though I haven't earned it. There seems to be some sort of "celebrity" attached to knowing a farang in my part of the world any way (Isaan, not too many foreigners here). It makes me feel uncomfortable when someone that works 14 hours a day to get a pittance and take care of their family bows down to me when I've had a reasonably easy life. I don't know how some of them do it yet remain happy and contented. Generally I have been overwhelmed by their genuine friendliness.

Having said that met a few grubs too and funnily enough in my limited experience generally if some of the family members are grubs thats seems to be the theme of the whole family. Its not just us farang who get shafted by some of these families too. My wife's cousin had an engagement party yesterday. Nice guy, young teacher trying to improve his lot in the world. The girls family (with no particular great wealth or standing) demanded he pay 300k baht and 5 baht gold, just for the engagement. Then a further 200k baht when they marry. That means they'll be starting their life with a massive debt (he borrowed the money). His family tried to dissuade him from the decision but he made the choice to do it. What gets me is they've been living together for 2 years anyway? It was clearly a case of extortion by the girls family taking advantage of a good hearted young man. The family and parents were literally salivating when the money was handed over and counted. Then there was a hurried cheap lunch (which I think the poor groom also paid out of his pocket) and back home. Was a nice enough gathering until we went to go home. Old bstard who had been sucking up to me all afternoon attempted to pick pocket my reading glasses. I know he'd took them and tracked him down and surprise surprise they were in his coat pocket. Then an old lady told me and my missus she liked us so much she wanted us to go to her home to give us a present. Turns out the present was a scarf she then tried to sell to the wife for 100 baht old btch. Left a pretty sour taste in my mouth. The other thing I am struggling with is being the centre of attention everywhere I go. Was cute and flattering at first but sticking my head out my front door to have some Lao Kao swilling deadbeat spitting out farang, farang every time I go out the door is starting to pss me off. As well as young blokes laying about the front of the home across the road watching your every move. Like living in a fish bowl sometimes. Any event we go to seems to include some drunkard opportunist trying to be my best buddy and tell me his life story (in Thai). It does get old. And seems impossible to go to any sort of home party or anything where theres drink without it turning into some sort of fight. Decided now will give these "functions" a miss. Was only thinking this morning how some of you guys get jaded and end up cynical and keeping to yourselves. On the most part I'm lucky my wife's family are mainly teachers and non drinkers and the nicest people you can meet.

[MJP]

The old woman used to get derided by others. Friends and relatives mostly. They said to the old woman, "You fat. You lazy. You spend too much money. How you have farang?"

[Gecko123]

I haven't experienced any of these things even though I expected to after much reading and others experiences. Maybe I've been lucky. Don't send money to family, have a great fun relationship with the missus and don't feel like a stupid tag along buffalo with the family. My wife isn't a money grubber and I just about have to force her to buy something when we're out. She has no access to my real money and knows she never will and I have also told her will never get a registered marriage so she's not motivated by money. Most of the good Isaan people I meet seem surprised that I give them the time of day which humbles me. I seem to be afforded respect everywhere I go even though I haven't earned it. There seems to be some sort of "celebrity" attached to knowing a farang in my part of the world any way (Isaan, not too many foreigners here). It makes me feel uncomfortable when someone that works 14 hours a day to get a pittance and take care of their family bows down to me when I've had a reasonably easy life. I don't know how some of them do it yet remain happy and contented. Generally I have been overwhelmed by their genuine friendliness.

Having said that met a few grubs too and funnily enough in my limited experience generally if some of the family members are grubs thats seems to be the theme of the whole family. Its not just us farang who get shafted by some of these families too. My wife's cousin had an engagement party yesterday. Nice guy, young teacher trying to improve his lot in the world. The girls family (with no particular great wealth or standing) demanded he pay 300k baht and 5 baht gold, just for the engagement. Then a further 200k baht when they marry. That means they'll be starting their life with a massive debt (he borrowed the money). His family tried to dissuade him from the decision but he made the choice to do it. What gets me is they've been living together for 2 years anyway? It was clearly a case of extortion by the girls family taking advantage of a good hearted young man. The family and parents were literally salivating when the money was handed over and counted. Then there was a hurried cheap lunch (which I think the poor groom also paid out of his pocket) and back home. Was a nice enough gathering until we went to go home. Old bstard who had been sucking up to me all afternoon attempted to pick pocket my reading glasses. I know he'd took them and tracked him down and surprise surprise they were in his coat pocket. Then an old lady told me and my missus she liked us so much she wanted us to go to her home to give us a present. Turns out the present was a scarf she then tried to sell to the wife for 100 baht old btch. Left a pretty sour taste in my mouth. The other thing I am struggling with is being the centre of attention everywhere I go. Was cute and flattering at first but sticking my head out my front door to have some Lao Kao swilling deadbeat spitting out farang, farang every time I go out the door is starting to pss me off. As well as young blokes laying about the front of the home across the road watching your every move. Like living in a fish bowl sometimes. Any event we go to seems to include some drunkard opportunist trying to be my best buddy and tell me his life story (in Thai). It does get old. And seems impossible to go to any sort of home party or anything where theres drink without it turning into some sort of fight. Decided now will give these "functions" a miss. Was only thinking this morning how some of you guys get jaded and end up cynical and keeping to yourselves. On the most part I'm lucky my wife's family are mainly teachers and non drinkers and the nicest people you can meet.

Thank you for sharing your well-written, well-organized and perceptive observations. We could use a lot more posters like this around here.

[CharlieH]

2 bickering posts removed.