Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[loonodingle]

... but, for now, the real killers are on hiatus awaiting the all-clear sign from the Big Boss before it's OK to strike again.

Mocking those 2 people's deaths is the lowest for of wit. Not the first Time is it Crab with you and your curt and snide remarks.

[JLCrab]

... but, for now, the real killers are on hiatus awaiting the all-clear sign from the Big Boss before it's OK to strike again.

Mocking those 2 people's deaths is the lowest for of wit. Not the first Time is it Crab with you and your curt and snide remarks.

I am not mocking those two unfortunate victims nor the 2 that are in custody -- only those who post on here with their ominous prognostications about who is next.

[catsanddogs]

Well known journalist (not allowed to mention probably - initials AD) who has been living and working in Thailand for 25 years is leaving as he fears for the safety of himself and his family.

http://www.samuitimes.com/journalist-andrew-drummond-leaving-thailand-after-25-years-of-exposing-foreign-criminals/

'What I have done has been clearly in the public interest. But apparently not according to judges in Koh Samui who are now handling the Koh Tao murder cases.'

My well being has been threatened as have those of my children. This is not of course the first time, but the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

Edited January 18, 2015 by catsanddogs

[stephen terry]

Well known journalist (not allowed to mention probably - initials AD) who has been living and working in Thailand for 25 years is leaving as he fears for the safety of himself and his family.

http://www.samuitimes.com/journalist-andrew-drummond-leaving-thailand-after-25-years-of-exposing-foreign-criminals/

'What I have done has been clearly in the public interest. But apparently not according to judges in Koh Samui who are now handling the Koh Tao murder cases.'

My well being has been threatened as have those of my children. This is not of course the first time, but the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

Enlightening article - thanks.

While you have picked out two statements it is important to clarify (after reading the complete article) that these are not necessarily connected, as Andrew has conducted journalist investigations into activities of FOREIGN criminals. It is speculation to assume the 'group of people' are residents on Koh Tao, although the statement re the Koh Samui judges seems to indicate that criminals have been shielded by the RTP, and (possibly if they have that mindset) to release the Burmese 2 would not be in the public interest.

[AleG]

Your evidence is that the accused have denied the crime. Well, that's convincing... not.

"How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste."

There has not been any credible evidence pointing at anyone else, there is DNA evidence, possessions of the victims linked to the suspects and circumstantial evidence (like being close to the scene of the crime at the time of the crime) in the trial that evidence will be contested by the defense. If you are worried that would be a long time for now you should air your grievances with the defense team since it was them who requested a postponement.

Now I see it clearly where you stand and you base everything on rtp words. Again you are set already in your mind who is guilty. Without considering any thing else not coming from rtp. Yes, I will stand behind these two before I will ever stand behind most of these corrupt RTP. You have your allegiance to rtp script. I am not that that easily convince that rtp have the investigation correct. Given the record of corruption in the police force, your logic is to believe the cops more than the two. Credibility. I don't think you know that word.

Yes the trial is necessary. But you like using your invalidated rtp report to rebut people's statement and then ask them to provide proof. While you want people to provide proof, it's only fair that you provide proof that the rtp report is truthful.

But the big question is about how the investigation was handled. It was far from a proper investigation. To me the trial is designed to waste even more time for the murderer to walk free. Garbage in garbage out. What a shame that people would stoop so low to protect these killers. They will strike again and it will hurt yet another family.

"Now I see it clearly where you stand and you base everything on rtp words. Again you are set already in your mind who is guilty."

I guess the twenty or so times I said that I'll wait to see how the evidence stands up at court to make a definitive judgement didn't catch your clear sight.

"Yes the trial is necessary. But you like using your invalidated rtp report to rebut people's statement and then ask them to provide proof. While you want people to provide proof, it's only fair that you provide proof that the rtp report is truthful."

I suppose the first part is you still holding a grudge because you couldn't substantiate the claim that the police "planted" a pair of bloody trousers in Chris Ware's luggage, correct?

As for the second part, that's what the trial is for, the police made the arrests based on the evidence they gathered, that evidence is what supports their claims the two Burmese men are the perpetrators and it will be presented and contested at the trial. That's the way things work in the real world.

You, on the other hand, made a claim and not only offered no evidence to support it, you are so... how should I put this mildly, unfamiliar with the bare basics of logical thought that you wanted me to prove your claim was not true.

In case that made you confused here you go:

"The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove."

"To me the trial is designed to waste even more time for the murderer to walk free."

A claim for which you, again, have no evidence whatsoever to support; in any case, are you accusing the defense of being complicit in the alleged cover-up/scapegoating? Because it was them who requested the postponement.

"What a shame that people would stoop so low to protect these killers. They will strike again and it will hurt yet another family."

What killers? The ones that are out there because you know so based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever?

As for credibility, do you know what it means? A credible person is someone that can substantiate his views, with facts and proper logic, try it some day, it'll help you.

[catsanddogs]

Well known journalist (not allowed to mention probably - initials AD) who has been living and working in Thailand for 25 years is leaving as he fears for the safety of himself and his family.

http://www.samuitimes.com/journalist-andrew-drummond-leaving-thailand-after-25-years-of-exposing-foreign-criminals/

'What I have done has been clearly in the public interest. But apparently not according to judges in Koh Samui who are now handling the Koh Tao murder cases.'

My well being has been threatened as have those of my children. This is not of course the first time, but the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

Enlightening article - thanks.

While you have picked out two statements it is important to clarify (after reading the complete article) that these are not necessarily connected, as Andrew has conducted journalist investigations into activities of FOREIGN criminals. It is speculation to assume the 'group of people' are residents on Koh Tao, although the statement re the Koh Samui judges seems to indicate that criminals have been shielded by the RTP, and (possibly if they have that mindset) to release the Burmese 2 would not be in the public interest.

I agree with what you write ST. But this is very big news and although the two statements may not be connected, I thought it important to highlight them in light of the sustained silence and possible fear of UK witnesses in the murder case.

[loonodingle]

Well known journalist (not allowed to mention probably - initials AD) who has been living and working in Thailand for 25 years is leaving as he fears for the safety of himself and his family.

http://www.samuitimes.com/journalist-andrew-drummond-leaving-thailand-after-25-years-of-exposing-foreign-criminals/

'What I have done has been clearly in the public interest. But apparently not according to judges in Koh Samui who are now handling the Koh Tao murder cases.'

My well being has been threatened as have those of my children. This is not of course the first time, but the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

Enlightening article - thanks.

While you have picked out two statements it is important to clarify (after reading the complete article) that these are not necessarily connected, as Andrew has conducted journalist investigations into activities of FOREIGN criminals. It is speculation to assume the 'group of people' are residents on Koh Tao, although the statement re the Koh Samui judges seems to indicate that criminals have been shielded by the RTP, and (possibly if they have that mindset) to release the Burmese 2 would not be in the public interest.

I agree with what you write ST. But this is very big news and although the two statements may not be connected, I thought it important to highlight them in light of the sustained silence and possible fear of UK witnesses in the murder case.

The fact he has added that into his sentence is definitely taking a swipe at the judges ability to differentiate between ruling in favour of justice or criminals. Why else pick this particular court??.

[stephen terry]

...the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

I am supporting my views by quoting from Andrew Drummond's statement (above) as to why he is leaving Thailand. I would reason the drug suppliers on Koh Tao (known fact) fall into the category as criminals, maybe large-scale criminals, and it wouldn't surprise me if the above statement could apply to the Koh Tao murders.

Hence I would question the credibility of the 'evidence' supplied by the RTP to support the charges against the Burmese 2. To not open up one's mind to the possibility that powerful people on Koh Tao are indeed above the law, and thus not to question the veracity of the RTP's case, will remain a closed mind.

If this is indeed the actuality on this island, then the Burmese 2 will never have a fair trial. I am hoping that whatever is stacked against them, the defence can win through. A cover-up, by its very nature is imperfect.

[loonodingle]

...the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

I am supporting my views by quoting from Andrew Drummond's statement (above) as to why he is leaving Thailand. I would reason the drug suppliers on Koh Tao (known fact) fall into the category as criminals, maybe large-scale criminals, and it wouldn't surprise me if the above statement could apply to the Koh Tao murders.

Hence I would question the credibility of the 'evidence' supplied by the RTP to support the charges against the Burmese 2. To not open up one's mind to the possibility that powerful people on Koh Tao are indeed above the law, and thus not to question the veracity of the RTP's case, will remain a closed mind.

If this is indeed the actuality on this island, then the Burmese 2 will never have a fair trial. I am hoping that whatever is stacked against them, the defence can win through. A cover-up, by its very nature is imperfect.

Stephen, without doubt the theirs a message there when he speaks out about killing people with impunity and police setting people up. In fact you could be reading the Koh Tao story so far hey.

Us conspiracy theorists hey!!!

Get ready for the barrage now of where is the evidence he was referring to blah blah..... when they get in from the Bars... lol

[boomerangutang]

The things I have posted, in the past few days, may not be the type of facts which pass muster for the likes of AleG, Crab and Balo. But I don't claim all t he items are facts. They may indeed prove to be facts, but relying on Thai or British experts to shed light on things re; the Ko Tao crime is frustrating at best. For their part, Thai officials were somewhat competent in the initial phases of their investigation, but then completely lost any vestige of credibility after the replacement head cop was instated from Bkk. As for British experts, thus far (16 weeks from the crime) they've been essentially worthless. They haven't put forth any findings at all. Perhaps Brit experts may come forth later with something useful, but let's not hold our breath.

There are those who seek truth and justice, and those who, by everything they write, seem to be desperately shielding the Headman's people from any scrutiny. One of those groups has a presence on the www, with hundreds of contributors and tens of thousands of viewers/supporters. The other, smaller group has no supporting web site, but they have the full weight of Thai officialdom behind them, so perhaps that suffices.

The social media sites, with hundreds of thousands of supporters, have photos and diagrams, some more useful than others. The RTP and their boosters have...... well, they don't have anything to show. All they can do is deny, deny, and deny some more, while labeling everyone seeking truth as 'conspiracy theorists.' But again, they have Thai officialdom in their corner, so the people they're shielding are safe.

[thailandchilli]

Well known journalist (not allowed to mention probably - initials AD) who has been living and working in Thailand for 25 years is leaving as he fears for the safety of himself and his family.

http://www.samuitimes.com/journalist-andrew-drummond-leaving-thailand-after-25-years-of-exposing-foreign-criminals/

'What I have done has been clearly in the public interest. But apparently not according to judges in Koh Samui who are now handling the Koh Tao murder cases.'

My well being has been threatened as have those of my children. This is not of course the first time, but the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

Enlightening article - thanks.

While you have picked out two statements it is important to clarify (after reading the complete article) that these are not necessarily connected, as Andrew has conducted journalist investigations into activities of FOREIGN criminals. It is speculation to assume the 'group of people' are residents on Koh Tao, although the statement re the Koh Samui judges seems to indicate that criminals have been shielded by the RTP, and (possibly if they have that mindset) to release the Burmese 2 would not be in the public interest.

I agree with what you write ST. But this is very big news and although the two statements may not be connected, I thought it important to highlight them in light of the sustained silence and possible fear of UK witnesses in the murder case.

The fact he has added that into his sentence is definitely taking a swipe at the judges ability to differentiate between ruling in favour of justice or criminals. Why else pick this particular court??.

Andrew has had a lot of dealing directly with the court and Judges in Koh Samui, more times than he cares to remember, he's a credible source on the workings of the RTP and judicial system in Samui.

He was also on Koh Tao the day after the murders covering the story and reported a lot of info that was only uncovered by him. A great investigative journalist who exposed foreign crooks as well as some serious corruption in the RTP. He had great support from Mark Kent the British Ambassador, the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand who's current president is Jonathan Head of the BBC and also some rights groups, but none of that matters when you are in fear of your life and have been threatened by people who have the capability to carry out those threats. A wise move to go back to the UK and I wish him and his children all the best. Thailand is a sadder place without him.

Just in case the mods come along and say this is off topic, here's the TV thread on AD http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/792709-shocker-andrew-drummond-leaving-thailand/

[Mooner]

Shocking that Samui courts are going ahead with a case against AD over defamation on a well known con artist.

Not much hope for the B2

[loonodingle]

Shocking that Samui courts are going ahead with a case against AD over defamation on a well known con artist.

Not much hope for the B2

Why Pick Samui courts is the question that leads to many answers I guess.

Edited January 18, 2015 by loonodingle

[JLCrab]

From post #1243: But I don't claim all the items are facts. They may indeed prove to be facts ...

From the screenplay for Seven Days in May (Kirk Douglas as Jiggs):

Colonel Martin "Jiggs" Casey: I'm not sure, Mr. President: just some possibilities, what we call, uh "capabilities" in military intelligence...

President Jordan Lyman: You got something against the English language?

Edited January 18, 2015 by JLCrab

[draftvader]

A post claiming to contain personal information, a comment on moderation, spelling police and replies have been removed. Basically completely off-topic and onto discussing members.

20) You will not post any member's personal information including emails, personal messages, photos or web site details.
Advertising, sponsors, user accounts

Please remember that claiming it is another member is enough. There is no way to prove otherwise.

[jdinasia]

It's more than likely the rtp is spinning the story. Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this, and then found the two Burmese as suspect. And was the DNA testing done by a forensic team? Or someone other than the police force.

One just don't make such a bold statement about the murder without even completing investigation. You are right too say that I have no proof and it's just pure speculation. Just as much speculation as you think the police have the right person. And that the investigation was done properly. Yea, the problem is that most people know the investigation was not done properly and that the real killer is out there still. But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody. And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth. Because that is the idea of the Thai police, to have people forget about this horrific crime so they can pin it on the two in order to protect someone high up in the island. But people like me will never allow out to happen.

Don't tell me that that the big guys in the island have high moral integrity. With so much drugs going around these full moon parties and the population so little, the police some how can't stop the drug sales. Right...credibility and reason for shielding the big guys is obviously there. Stakes are high on the island.

And I thank you for helping out bring to attention on how important this case is. Beside, without your comments, I would not have any comic relief from this serious matter.

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

Absolutely brilliant

[balo]

I just want to say I agree with AleG, he hit the nail this time, regarding the famous words "A Thai could never do this" . .

[rockingrobin]

I just want to say I agree with AleG, he hit the nail this time, regarding the famous words "A Thai could never do this" . .

But the quote shone a light on the RTP mindset,

[berybert]

From post #1243: But I don't claim all the items are facts. They may indeed prove to be facts ...

From the screenplay for Seven Days in May (Kirk Douglas as Jiggs):

Colonel Martin "Jiggs" Casey: I'm not sure, Mr. President: just some possibilities, what we call, uh "capabilities" in military intelligence...

President Jordan Lyman: You got something against the English language?

Yeah great comment. Yet another example of you using a film to prove guilt.

[berybert]

I just want to say I agree with AleG, he hit the nail this time, regarding the famous words "A Thai could never do this" . .

Don't just agree with him. Give us proof that a Thai could never have done it .

[catsanddogs]

I'm sorry to bring this up again but doesn't anyone else see what looks to possibly be a hoe in this man's left hand behind his back? And in the last picture the right hand is holding onto the end of it?

[greenchair]

A lot of people had thought that ? and ? but when you see the front view there is nothing.

[JLCrab]

From post #1243: But I don't claim all the items are facts. They may indeed prove to be facts ...

From the screenplay for Seven Days in May (Kirk Douglas as Jiggs):

Colonel Martin "Jiggs" Casey: I'm not sure, Mr. President: just some possibilities, what we call, uh "capabilities" in military intelligence...

President Jordan Lyman: You got something against the English language?

Yeah great comment. Yet another example of you using a film to prove guilt.

Nah -- if I wanted to use a film to prove guilt, ths one s much better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MPX5ZiZ9-bk#t=89

[greenchair]

It has always been said walking man is moa moa. But I don't think it is.

In the bar is David ,hoeman and this man that looks exactly like walking man.

[loonodingle]

It has always been said walking man is moa moa. But I don't think it is.

post-223227-0-23285100-1420519434.jpgpost-223227-0-23285100-1420519434-1.jpg

10560376_10152449452722274_3888438221108410521_o-3.jpg10560376_10152449452722274_3888438221108410521_o-1.jpg

In the bar is David ,hoeman and this man that looks exactly like walking man.

GC do u think that someone walking at 2am is relevant. Also as there has been mentioned many times that a disturbance at the AC bar took place and they possibly walked along the beach.

[draftvader]

Thanks guys for getting this back on-topic. Much appreciated.

[thailandchilli]

Mon has always been a person of special interest to me as soon as it was widely reported from credible sources that he had refused to give DNA. I know it was then reported that he subsequently had a test that proved negative but why refuse in the first place? For somebody who was one of the first on the crime scene and even then when the scene was roped off he took it upon himself to cross the line and head for what looks like some items on the sand. Then he becomes a suspect and refuses DNA? The following could shed some light.

Another poster notified me of an article on another thread yesterday before it got deleted, so I'm not going to copy the article and have the same thing happen but I will paraphrase it so you get the gist. If anyone wants the link to the website that published the article then you can pm me or email me if you have it. Its a French website (google translates it well) and low and behold is blocked in Thailand.

The article claims that the murder or at least rape of Hannah was carried out by another person that has not been mentioned in these threads or in the media that I have seen (I have his name but will not publish here). This person being the son of somebody, I will leave you to join the dots above, along with another unidentified person. According to the article the condom found on the beach with Hannah's DNA would have revealed the true killer if the suspects DNA inside had not been destroyed. (by influential people)

Its also interesting that Mon on his facebook page made a post on the 11th Oct that was quite interesting, complaining about a certain man on the Island named "Prasit" I have attached a screenshot of the post thats been translated by Google into English. I also asked my Thai wife what it said and she confirmed to me that it is a direct complaint to somebody called Prasit, almost a threat of some sort saying that he needs to make money on the Island and why is he doing so much damage to the Island, burning it.

Who is Prasit? Here's a little speculation, the only Prasit I could find in Koh Tao is this one:

In a media interview yesterday, Prasit Sukdam also accused the police of giving him a large sum of money in exchange for false testimony to frame the wrong people. He claimed the money was taken from the Bt700,000 offered as a reward by Koh Tao residents for information leading to the arrest of the killers. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-promised-cash-reward-to-buy-false-testimony-30244573.html

Another of Mons posts states that social media should stop defending the 2 Burmese killers

As another point of interest the article also claims they've had many emails from French and English people on the Island who want to remain anonymous due to being scared of any repercussions from influential people but they believe the article is accurate.

Anyway for those interested I can give you the link

Edited January 20, 2015 by thailandchilli

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 20 Jan 2015 - 02:55, said:

Mon has always been a person of special interest to me as soon as it was widely reported from credible sources that he had refused to give DNA. I know it was then reported that he subsequently had a test that proved negative but why refuse in the first place? For somebody who was one of the first on the crime scene and even then when the scene was roped off he took it upon himself to cross the line and head for what looks like some items on the sand. Then he becomes a suspect and refuses DNA? The following could shed some light.

Another poster notified me of an article on another thread yesterday before it got deleted, so I'm not going to copy the article and have the same thing happen but I will paraphrase it so you get the gist. If anyone wants the link to the website that published the article then you can pm me or email me if you have it. Its a French website (google translates it well) and low and behold is blocked in Thailand.

The article claims that the murder or at least rape of Hannah was carried out by another person that has not been mentioned in these threads or in the media that I have seen (I have his name but will not publish here). This person being the son of somebody, I will leave you to join the dots above, along with another unidentified person. According to the article the condom found on the beach with Hannah's DNA would have revealed the true killer if the suspects DNA inside had not been destroyed. (by influential people)

Its also interesting that Mon on his facebook page made a post on the 11th Oct that was quite interesting, complaining about a certain man on the Island named "Prasit" I have attached a screenshot of the post thats been translated by Google into English. I also asked my Thai wife what it said and she confirmed to me that it is a direct complaint to somebody called Prasit, almost a threat of some sort saying that he needs to make money on the Island and why is he doing so much damage to the Island, burning it.

Who is Prasit? Here's a little speculation, the only Prasit I could find in Koh Tao is this one:

In a media interview yesterday, Prasit Sukdam also accused the police of giving him a large sum of money in exchange for false testimony to frame the wrong people. He claimed the money was taken from the Bt700,000 offered as a reward by Koh Tao residents for information leading to the arrest of the killers. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-promised-cash-reward-to-buy-false-testimony-30244573.html

Another of Mons posts states that social media should stop defending the 2 Burmese killers

As another point of interest the article also claims they've had many emails from French and English people on the Island who want to remain anonymous due to being scared of any repercussions from influential people but they believe the article is accurate.

Anyway for those interested I can give you the link

@thailandchilli - Please can you send me the link to the French article? I did read a very revealing blog in French about the KT murders some time ago but this may be a different article.

[boomerangutang]

Jeezo, reading the Google translation of Thai slang is frustrating. It's bad enuf reading translations of regular Thai to English.

I have a website within which I translated 2 brief paragraphs into 10 major world languages, including Thai. Guess which language yielded the most most convoluted results? Yup, Thai. By far.

Mon is key in cracking this case. He and Nomsod should have been put in custody without bail, from Day 1.

Edited January 20, 2015 by boomerangutang

[thailandchilli]

Just noticed, Andrew Drummond in his latest article mentions that the Koh Tao murders was also one of the last straws for him in Thailand and that he is in no doubt that revelations will come about the investigation in the future