New Calf, no mother.

[Issangeorge]

We welcomed a new calf into the world today, unfortunately the mother died giving birth, so the calf has to be hand fed. Does anybody have any tips on the best way to raise the motherless calf, thanks?

[aussieruss]

Hi at sale yards in oz they give a raw egg to new bourns. But should have calostrum. From mum good luck rgds Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Issangeorge]

The colostrum part from the mum, is impossible, is there a substitute. The calf seems to be feeding fine from the bottle.

[Rinrada]

We have 5 new calves male ..all saved from the BBQ....

Being a farming community most are allowed only one day before the farmer does the business and everyone has hamburgers the next day....for a week.

Anyway as said from one day old just bottle fed milk,rub their ears and talk to them....very friendly.

Now all eating grass/hay and keeping the ants at bay...and with their own personalities....whats the future...mai pen rai...

[Rinrada]

We have 5 new calves male ..all saved from the BBQ....

Being a farming community most are allowed only one day before the farmer does the business and everyone has hamburgers the next day....for a week.

Anyway as said from one day old just bottle fed milk,rub their ears and talk to them....very friendly.

Now all eating grass/hay and keeping the ants at bay...and with their own personalities....whats the future...mai pen rai...

[farmerjo]

If you have other cows, try marrying the young one to one of them.

[kickstart]

If you have other cows, try marrying the young one to one of them.

A good idea,I use to work on a farm that use to rear all the dairy calves on a beef cow,the beef cow already had a calf,she would rear the 2 calves,for a week it was hard work ,the foster mother,took some persuading to accept the the new calf ,but we got there in the end.

.The OP does not say if the cow was a dairy or beef cow,if it was a dairy calf ,you could foster it on to another dairy cow say a cow that has mastitis,if it is a beef calf you would have almost no hope of fostering it on to a beef cow,the predominantly Brahman breed would not take another calf,they would kick and butt it the whole time.

The first thing I thought about the OP's post ,how the > deleted< did the cow die, cows do not just die after calving if it was a bad difficult calving,I could understand, and 9 times out of 10 the calf would be dead to,must have been a good reason. or someone with no knowledge just pulled at the calf as she was calving,and the cow had a prolapse?

Back to the problem,if you live in a dairy cow area if a farm that has a freshly calved cow,and get some colostrum off them ,calves need colostrum for the minimum of 4 days for the antibodies to have effect, after that buy a bag of milk powder replacment,about 1200 bart /bag,depending on make,and follow the instructions ,and use warm water, I have seen a lot of calves reared on milk powder and they do not grow well .feed it milk up to 8 weeks,then when it is eating calf concentrate well wean it off,,and you will not get any setbacks

Or better still if you have a dairy farm near by buy some milk from him ,at this time farm gate price is about 17 bart/kg.,feed no more than 2 kg /feed,if it is a small calf 1 1/2 kg /feed, too much milk the calf will scour.

As the calf is growing,at about 7 days old offer it some calf feed ,water and some rice straw, not grass ,calf's digestive system can not digest grass ,and you will get a pot bellied calf, straw helps to develop the rumen ,when it it is about 4 months old ,then it can eat and digest grass.

Something I still miss ,is rearing calves,did it for a good few years.

Yours Regs .

KS.

[Billmont]

Hi, My wife raised a calf from a few days old after a truck accident that killed the mother and another calf about a month old ran away and could not be found. The calf had a few day of mothers milk which probably helped but nobody wanted to raise the calf as they said they usually died. We bought powdered milk, bottles etc and my wife sterilized each time after use as one would do with a baby, water was always boiled and allowed to cool and well mixed with the milk powder. The calfs bottom was always clean, as the mother would do and when the calf got the runs we got medication from a vets and my wife injected. There was some worrying times like when it got bloated due to food getting to early into the wrong stomach and we had to drench and most information we got from the internet. After a few weeks the other calf was found and was extremely thin and weak and again offered to my wife so she took care of the two calves and were good company for each other. We also bought solid food and a salt lick and the two calves thrived but it was initially very time consuming feeding by bottle several times a day. After a few months the two claves were stunningly healthy and fat and were given grass and baby corn leaves in addition in solid cattle food. My wife received many offers and a very good price but refused to sell. After about one year she gave both to her parents who had helped with cutting grass etc. After about 18 months they were sold for the fine price of THB 76,000 and our investment of just over THB 30,000 in milk and food etc was returned which is all we wanted, actually her parents gave her THB 40,000 and her parents got the THB 36,000 and everybody was happy. Both were males and the younger one was becoming quite agressive which was the reason that were sold at that time. Recently MIL got a female calve which was orphaned and following what my wife did has reared her to another healthy young calf. Well worth doing and quite rewarding.

[Issangeorge]

Our problem is the calf never had the mother's milk so is missing out on the Colostrum milk, I have read that you can buy an artificial variety, I am now in the process of trying to find the Thai name for it, if anyone knows, please let me know. This calf is female, so if it survives, we will keep it and breed it.

[kickstart]

Our problem is the calf never had the mother's milk so is missing out on the Colostrum milk, I have read that you can buy an artificial variety, I am now in the process of trying to find the Thai name for it, if anyone knows, please let me know. This calf is female, so if it survives, we will keep it and breed it.

You did not say if it was a dairy or beef breed,at a guess I would say a beef ,if it is a brahman, or Brahman cross,they are one tough calf ,I would say if you keep everything clean ,missing out on its colostrum might not be too big problem.

We had Thai native heifer calf ,she would not let the calf suck ,we put it down to ,sore teats ,being a heifer I got some milk from a neighbour who had a cow calve,a few days before,and we bottle feed the calf for 3-4 days,then the mother would let the calf suckle ,before ,we put her in the crush ,tied her up ,but she would not let the calf suckle.

Now 6 months on we have one very healthy bull calf, which I think is going to be a hand full, in a few months time.

As for an artificial variety, some thing I have never come across ,try googling say, CP or Betagro,find a contact on their cattle feed side,and ask one of their reps.

[bina]

if its a male, then try not to use a bottle too long, try to move him to a pan/bowl/bucket for milk feeding. a friendly male is a danger later. u can get colustrum from another cow in the same are u live, even if is a day or so before your calf was born. the first four days are the important ones.after that, its a gamble on the calf's life.... (lack of immunity/lots of illness and a money eater)... for rumen, u can try to steal from another cow (when the calf is a bit older ) and 'implant' in the calf (give it to him to eat)... with goats its easier to 'steal ' cud...or u can buy rumen starter (thru internet, not sure if goes to thailand, but maybe some larger farm would have)... also, by letting the calf eat with other cows, might get some of the good bacterias just from the feeding area (like if u give pellet food)... to develop also the rumen as someone else mentioned, u can start earlier then most calves would wean , by placed some cow feed pellets/starter feed in the calf's mouth... but watch out for scours (the runs. comes from bottle feeding/bad sanitation from the bottle/poor immune system/digestive problems.)

again, not sure if there is calf dry milk formula but even that , when not given properly, can cause scours. read the directions well, and dont try to give more then is written causing scours, (or less, as then u will have a FAILURE TO THRIVE calf)

ahve fun.

[Issangeorge]

Thanks for the advise. The calf is a typical Thai calf, definitely not dairy, and there are no diaries in the area. As far as I can tell the calf came out feet first, and there was a lot of blood around, I think perhaps the stress and the lack of blood killed the mother. This is now day five, and the calf is still alive. Last night it looked pretty sick, but I now think that's how it sleeps. It had a fever in the morning yesterday, but the vet gave it a couple of shots, and that got rid of the fever, and the cow perked up. We are feeding her powdered milk made for calfs, but it isn't that interested in eating, it is a struggle to get her to feed. The calf does have a case of scours, but I guess the vet gave it a shot for that and was not too concerned. Could not find any colostrum anywhere, so have to just hope everything works out okay.

[kickstart]

Thanks for the advise. The calf is a typical Thai calf, definitely not dairy, and there are no diaries in the area. As far as I can tell the calf came out feet first, and there was a lot of blood around, I think perhaps the stress and the lack of blood killed the mother. This is now day five, and the calf is still alive. Last night it looked pretty sick, but I now think that's how it sleeps. It had a fever in the morning yesterday, but the vet gave it a couple of shots, and that got rid of the fever, and the cow perked up. We are feeding her powdered milk made for calfs, but it isn't that interested in eating, it is a struggle to get her to feed. The calf does have a case of scours, but I guess the vet gave it a shot for that and was not too concerned. Could not find any colostrum anywhere, so have to just hope everything works out okay.

Try giving it a feed of glucose the powder, or the re hydration sachets,use use 3 for a calf or about 4 spoons of glucose in about 1 1/2 liters of water, the glucose /rehydration therapy will give the calf some some energy,but do not use a bottle to feed the calf ,like you would a drench ,you can not control the feed rate, and some of the liquid will go into the lungs ,not good news ,if and a big if ,you can find a calf stomach tube,and some one to use one,would help a lot,I have got one ,it is the only one I have ever seen in Thailand, a bottle and teat would do.

,Makes me wonder if , when the calf was born it was slow in start breathing, and the brain was starved of oxygen,making it a bit lethargic, or ,more likely, the cow was well under fed ,and no mineral supplement, that would make the calf weak.

,Get your vet to give it a shot of vitamin E and Selenium,might have white muscle disease( unless he already has), due to the cow being in poor condition, that could make the calf lethargic, might give it a bit of get up and go.

Unusual for such a young calf to have the scours.

[Issangeorge]

I'm not really sure if he has the scours or not, her stool is loose and a yellow brown plop, but it is not all that watery, maybe she just has a lose stool. She sleeps a lot, but she does get up and walk around, yesterday she was even hopping around like a young deer, but she is reluctant to take the bottle, and won't drink water out of a bucket. Should I try out of a bottle?

[Issangeorge]

I hate to post a picture like this, but you guys are pretty knowledgeable, and I'm not. Is this the type of bowl movement a calf with scours would have, or is it normal? Thanks.

[slapout]

it may not be called scours by some, but if not, its close enough to be called on the way or very close. this is based on the watery appearance. some associate a bright yellow color with scours, but i always looked at liquid conteent of 50+ % as , start to treat time.

[Issangeorge]

Thanks, I figured that, got some medicine today, and some electrolyte, the problem is you mix the electrolyte in the water, and the calf doesn't like to drink water or milk. This is day 6 and she is still alive and doesn't seem all that sick, although she sleeps a lot, so who knows.

[slapout]

we used a old glass coke bottle to feed newborns and doctor sick calves who did not want to suck a nippled bottle, stick it in the side of their mouth right at where upper and lower are joined. use about 1/3 of a bottle for ease of inserting it properly, thus little spillage, and its not too much to force down and not choke them. good luck

[kickstart]

Looking at that photo I would say that the stool is about normal,a young calf has the same digestive system as us ,just the true stomach known as the abomasum, which will digest the milk ,as they is no solids food or fiber in the diet, the stool will be soft(,you try living on a liquid diet only and look at your stool).

As the calf grows at about 45 days to 60 days old the rumen will develop ,as it starts to eat some fiber ,and the calf will be seen to start cudding.

A yellow stool is the calf digesting a milk diet,not always associated with scours,when the stool is 80% water and white then the calf will have a bacterial scour, often it is not the bacteria that will kill a calf ,but dehydration,soon as it starts to scour ,off with the milk and feed only the re-hydration therapy satchels,with some glucose.

If the calf is sick feel the roof of its mouth with your finger,it should be warm ,body temperature, if the roof of the mouth is cold ,even in hot Thailand,then you have have got serious problems.

You said that she had a hopping around section, that is a good sign, as for not drinking the electrolyte, I have had that problem myself , use a teat on a bottle , you can buy teats for calves that fit on a bottle ,my problem is I am spoiled .living in a big dairy area we have most things,I have a feeling where you are, thing like this are not easy to find if you want PM me and I will send you one.

Try dipping your finger in milk and let the calf suck your finger,hold your hand up a bit like simulating a calf sucking a cow,then swap over to the electrolyte,that sometimes works,and use warm water.

Ps. Lets have a photo ,and the most important thing ,what are you going to call it.

Yours Regs

KS

[kickstart]

we used a old glass coke bottle to feed newborns and doctor sick calves who did not want to suck a nippled bottle, stick it in the side of their mouth right at where upper and lower are joined. use about 1/3 of a bottle for ease of inserting it properly, thus little spillage, and its not too much to force down and not choke them. good luck

You have had some experience of rearing cattle , someone who has not, useing a bottle, there's too much of a chace of the liquid going in to the lungs,especially with a sick calf,and that can go on and cause calf pneumonia,among other problems.

Even with a sick cow it is not recommended to use a bottle for a drench,for the same reason.

[Issangeorge]

Optimistic today, the calf seems pretty healthy, hopped over part of her stall fence as we were removing it. She was really drinking on the milk today. Everything I have read says she should drink about 4 litres of milk a day. The powder milk I have makes 10 litres a 1kg package, so that's 1 package for 2.5 days. Today is day 6 of drinking the milk and she has gone through 2.5 packages, so figuring in some spillage, she is probably drinking the amount she should, or close to it. Her name is NoMom, what else would we call her. Here is a picture of her with our two dogs. You will notice the bigger dog seems to be taking the place of her mom, by cleaning her ass.

[kickstart]

Optimistic today, the calf seems pretty healthy, hopped over part of her stall fence as we were removing it. She was really drinking on the milk today. Everything I have read says she should drink about 4 litres of milk a day. The powder milk I have makes 10 litres a 1kg package, so that's 1 package for 2.5 days. Today is day 6 of drinking the milk and she has gone through 2.5 packages, so figuring in some spillage, she is probably drinking the amount she should, or close to it. Her name is NoMom, what else would we call her. Here is a picture of her with our two dogs. You will notice the bigger dog seems to be taking the place of her mom, by cleaning her ass.

Thanks for the photo sounds if she is doing all right,

The breed is a Indo Brazil cross, long ears ,not the easiest of breeds to get going,an intensive breed will need some proper feeding as it grows, will not get fat like a Charolais, we have a cross breed Indo heifer that will calve next month, that one,and a few others I have come across seem very placid compared to other beef breeds , ie, some headbanging semi -wild Brahmans.

All the best ,and good luck.

[Issangeorge]

Thank you. All the families cows are the same, I once had a Charlie's sperm, injected into one of our cows, but it didn't take. I think I will try again.

[kickstart]

Thank you. All the families cows are the same, I once had a Charlie's sperm, injected into one of our cows, but it didn't take. I think I will try again.

I have a Charolais bull this year,a nice animal but it suffers from heat stress,,what it will be like in the heat of March/April I do not know,last year the Charolais mum had an Angus that was a nice animal ,no heat stress, easy to rear,we sold him for 48000 bart he was 15 months old,one of the problems we had was that a lot of potential buyers did not know the Angus breed, and where a bit weary of a "new breed", most only know Brahman. the Charolais semen come from my locl DLD office

But this year I have got some more Angus semen ,so far got 1 cow in calf with it , 2 more served,not yet checked to see if they are in calf,+ some cows more to serve.

Our Angus and Charolais seem fairly placid to,compared with the Brahman crosses.

Problem I think this year is going to be cattal prices,for the past ,allmost 2 years now,the prices have been high,a lot to do with dairy cattle ,buyers coming from Vietnam to buy Thai in calf heifers and some young stock,which has pushed the prices up,and beef cattle seemed to have followed the trend,dairy heifers price's seemed to have leveled out now ,when wil the price drop, I will pass on that one,watch this space.

[Issangeorge]

NoMom's mother was my BIL's cow. The day before she had NoMom, my BIL was offered ฿80,000 for her and turned it down. One reason we are trying so hard to keep NoMom alive, she is the ฿80,000 calf.

[bina]

Forgot to mention. ..scratch right above cakf's tail. .it will stimulate the nursing sucking refkex...every time u give her bottle feed... (bottle can be anything that u can attach ateat to. ..or do the open drench style bottle but let her nurse don't pour in like a drench...u can use electrolytes but not same time as a feed! It orevents proper absorption of the milk. Give between feeds. Make sure milk is cow temp. And not cold. Use rice water to stop scours as well. ..keep to small frequent feeds...use accurate measurements for milk powder. These are many of the culprits causing scours when hand feeding

[Issangeorge]

Thanks for all the tips. Unfortunately NoMom, died last night, I think she got pneumonia, and because she didn't have the colostrum from her mother she couldn't fight it off. I've learned a lot that will help in a similar situation. One thing I will be on the look out for is powdered colostrum, so I can keep it on hand if needed. We had some fairly mild nights, and then the last few were quite cold, and I think the stress was too much. We did have the stall surrounded by bamboo mats as a wind break, and covered her with a warm blanket, but I guess it wasn't enough.

[bina]

you can freeze colustrom : label each bottle (we stored in good quality baby bottles: label first day second day third day... thats all u need. we kept ours for about a year and farms in the surrounding area 'borrowed' from us when needed and kept so we could use whne needed. it has to be colustrom from the surrounding areas for all the antibodies to be useful... store in bottles per amount that is likely needed. do not defrost in microwave rather put in pot of water that has been boiled and is hot and let the colustrum warm up that way. do not refreeze. this is for goats, dogs, horses, humans cows. if u are worried about certain diseases like johhnes then i think the colustrom has to be pasteurized and not sure how to do that.

[kickstart]

you can freeze colustrom : label each bottle (we stored in good quality baby bottles: label first day second day third day... thats all u need. we kept ours for about a year and farms in the surrounding area 'borrowed' from us when needed and kept so we could use whne needed. it has to be colustrom from the surrounding areas for all the antibodies to be useful... store in bottles per amount that is likely needed. do not defrost in microwave rather put in pot of water that has been boiled and is hot and let the colustrum warm up that way. do not refreeze. this is for goats, dogs, horses, humans cows. if u are worried about certain diseases like johhnes then i think the colustrom has to be pasteurized and not sure how to do that.

I use to keep it in an old milk churn,yes it did go off, but colostrum,is not like ordinary milk, it has a higher fat and sugar content,keeps longer,in the milk churn the PH drops sugniffertly, which helped to keep it going,I use to scoop out 1 -2 lt's,add a small amount of hot water,stand the bucket in a another bucket of hot water,and feed it to the calf,often reluctantly, or use a stomach tube.

This got me out of a few problems,a calf needs a feed of colostrum 6 hours after being born,for the maximum effect of the colostrum,and cows being cows ,calving in the middle of the night in a field,then going down with milk fever, and it is raining, you end up with one hungry calf,that old milk churn would come in handy.

This was in the uk ,this time of year in Thailand it would work being cool,but in the hot season,not a good idea.

Jonhnes, I think if the farm already has the bacterium it would be a problem,the above farm I worked on had it ,use to lose a cow most years to it ,this was pre vaccin days. A Thai vet friend of mine, works for the DLD, says it is in Thailand,but he has not seen it for a long time.

Now, for your average farm,I would have thought it would not be a problem.