Army 'needs martial law to shield itself'

[peecee]

Thailand needs martial laws to stop alleged Thaksin's sponsored Red Shirts, from killing innocent Yellow Thai people.

I love these "tongue in cheek" posts, the trouble is the Thai anti democracy lobby just wont get it!

[heybruce]

Is there maybe hope that some of the RedShirt mouthpieces on this thread will listen to their master's command - probably hoping too much, there:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1420524700&section=11&typecate=06

Don't Oppose the Junta, Thaksin Instructs Redshirts

BANGKOK — Thaksin Shinawatra, the de facto leader of the Redshirt movement, has reportedly advised his supporters to refrain from interfering with the missions of the military junta

What redshirts? Do you assume that everyone who isn't an enthusiastic supporter of the junta is a redshirt supporter?

[peecee]

^ lovely to see this bit of ethnocentrist, elitist attitude from you. No surprise really.

Not everyone is a native English speaker - kinda like those Thais all around you. I guess they shouldn't criticize, or have opinions either... and it'd be just a small step until you'd deny them democracy for not speaking 'the master language', English. Right?

I guess we just got to see your true colors.

I have consistently defended democracy. What have you been doing?

Doesn't seem that way - considering you are consistently ignoring the issues brought up and pointed out to you, in the prior regime's abuse, manipulation, and subjugation of democracy ... like, having a criminal, hiding abroad, set up puppets and attempt to run the country via Skype while financing and supporting violence against Thai civilians.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/chief-investigator-says-mastermind-abroad-financed-violence-pdrc-protests?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=chief-investigator-says-mastermind-abroad-financed-violence-pdrc-protests

& the little buggers still got the popular vote! Stalin & Adolf loved their mothers; so they were alright heads of state, right? Quackers this democracy lark, aint it?

[heybruce]

Finding 13 replies on my posts and quickly scanning through them, I've decided that to reply on the replies is just a waste of time. When HeyBruce even managed to move the 2010 'unrest' into 2006 I even wondered what history learned some of us.

So, forget it.

Yours truly,

uncle rubl

Ok, I got a date messed up. Someone who writes "what history learned some of us." shouldn't criticize.

But you are denying the right of a non-native English speaker the right to criticize. Surely that in itself is not democratic. Hypocrite.

No, I was giving a quick reply to a poster who used a simple error in dates as an excuse to not defend foolish posts about Prayuth being elected by the NLA, Yingluck asking for but not receiving military assistance, and other indefensible nonsense.

As far as my demanding something, I demanded nothing. You seem to be one of those posters who like to exaggerate the trivial to ridiculous proportions.

Edited January 6, 2015 by heybruce

[heybruce]

I have consistently defended democracy. What have you been doing?

I've been wondering about long stories based on a functioning democracy and non-corrupt politicians. Somehow those don't seem to have much to do with topics here. Here we discuss Thailand.

Well if we're discussing Thailand at present we certainly aren't discussing any kind of democracy or non-corrupt leaders.

Well, if some constantly point to the past of Thailand, we're also not discussing democracy or lack of corruption.

Some are consistently pointing to the past to avoid discussing the present. The OP is all about the present and the future, yet the junta supporters can only discuss the past.

Thailand had a flawed democracy that could have evolved into something better. Every functioning democracy I am aware of started out as a flawed democracy that had to learn from experience to become a functioning democracy. No democracy that I am aware of originated in military rule, unless you count those countries that were so disgusted by military rule the people kicked the generals out in order to bring about democracy.

[sjaak327]

I've been wondering about long stories based on a functioning democracy and non-corrupt politicians. Somehow those don't seem to have much to do with topics here. Here we discuss Thailand.

I guess these folks aren't really familiar with Thailand, or maybe they are talking about some utopian place with the same name. They probably have never been there, is my guess.

Funny you should say that Daffy, I know you haven't got the slightest clue when it comes to Thailand, how else could you possibly believe the current junta is trying to stop corruption. These are people from the military, and no, they aren't this rich because they married a rich wife any more than they got money due to a land sale.

The military has always been one of the most corrupt organizations in Thailand, and they are currently ensuring this will continue for quite some time.

Oh by the way, nice try bringing Thaksin into this discussion, I don't care about him and I certainly don't care his remark about not criticizing the junta, one must believe the bloke cut a deal, which again wouldn't be a huge surprise considering the parties involved and the country concerned.

Edited January 6, 2015 by sjaak327

[lildragon]

sjaak327 nooooooooo. They are our sworn and upright protectors! They are 100% clean and have never taken part in any illicit activities. A quick look at Thai history and their actions in 1992 and 1976 show their honor. Ohh but I keep referencing THE PAST here. How predictable of me, like a certain duck.

[DaffyDuck]

I've been wondering about long stories based on a functioning democracy and non-corrupt politicians. Somehow those don't seem to have much to do with topics here. Here we discuss Thailand.

I guess these folks aren't really familiar with Thailand, or maybe they are talking about some utopian place with the same name. They probably have never been there, is my guess.

Funny you should say that Daffy, I know you haven't got the slightest clue when it comes to Thailand, how else could you possibly believe the current junta is trying to stop corruption. These are people from the military, and no, they aren't this rich because they married a rich wife any more than they got money due to a land sale.

The military has always been one of the most corrupt organizations in Thailand, and they are currently ensuring this will continue for quite some time.

None of which has anything to do with THE PRESENT, of course.

Yep, like I thought - he probably doesn't even know where Thailand is on a map. It's very similar to debating politics with libertarians.

[englishoak]

Paradoxicracy...... go watch it and learn all about your beloved coups,Thai freedom and elites BS games entwined with the military.

You don't need to listen to your GF or equally clueless average Thai, there are those outside of Thailand that have a far more balanced, non political bias and detailed understanding of things and papers or articles that can't be posted here. Go read something that isnt muzzled and censored, if you dont then you cannot have an understanding of the game being played.

But that would be too hard for some to grasp no doubt as it would lead to the simple obvious conclusion that the intention has never been to allow Thailand or its people a democratic choice of direction for long. Even one they may regret will never be allowed to really appreciate making a mistake because before the people are allowed to reject them at an election and learn, the option is taken away......

Morons you might think but thats the point, keep things stable enough to muddle along but unstable enough to get away with coup after coup... reset, rinse and repeat is all it'll ever be until a proper...............

Edited January 6, 2015 by englishoak

[DaffyDuck]

A quick look at Thai history and their actions in 1992 and 1976 show their honor.

Again, none of which has any relevance to PRESENT DAY events, unless you can show direct parallels to those events you allude to from 1992 and 1976, which the present government engages in actively. M' Kay?

[DaffyDuck]

Lovely tinfoil hat you're wearing, englishoak. The truth of the matter is far simpler, and has been laid out multiple times by others in this thread (and others) and doesn't involve some muzzled discussion subjects that can't be talked out. Of course, babbling on about invisible hand conspiracies makes for a better narrative and undoubtedly makes you (and the other tools) feel an importance you otherwise might not have.

[DaffyDuck]

Some are consistently pointing to the past to avoid discussing the present. The OP is all about the present and the future, yet the junta supporters can only discuss the past.

Is that why YOU and other anti-military folks keep consistently and repeatedly bringing up the Army's actions from the past, 1976, 1992, instead of acknowledging the actions and behavior of the present?

So far, myself, rubl and others keep attempting to focus you and others on the present, to which you and your red friends consistently deflect to the past. Every single time.

Projecting. It's what you do.

[DaffyDuck]

Someone who writes "what history learned some of us." shouldn't criticize.

No, I was giving a quick reply to a poster who used a simple error in dates as an excuse to not defend foolish posts about Prayuth being elected by the NLA, Yingluck asking for but not receiving military assistance, and other indefensible nonsense.

It's quite obvious that you were clearly admonishing someone for his 'crime' of not being a native English speaker, and essentially asserting that he doesn't have the right to participate in your debate if he doesn't speak English.

Your full quote (since you are so concerned about being quoted accurately): "Someone who writes "what history learned some of us." shouldn't criticize."

If the debate had been about English proficiency, you might have had a minor case, but as it wasn't, and seeing as how you forbade him to participate solely based on his English proficiency / mistake, you have no wiggle room.

Your attempt to backpedal and rationalize your statement is just sad. A simple "hey, sorry, I didn't mean this" would have been the appropriate, mature way to conclude this snafu.

[halloween]

Some are consistently pointing to the past to avoid discussing the present. The OP is all about the present and the future, yet the junta supporters can only discuss the past.

Thailand had a flawed democracy that could have evolved into something better. Every functioning democracy I am aware of started out as a flawed democracy that had to learn from experience to become a functioning democracy. No democracy that I am aware of originated in military rule, unless you count those countries that were so disgusted by military rule the people kicked the generals out in order to bring about democracy.

Yes Bruce, it COULD have evolved into something better, but all the signs were there that is was heading downhill fast. When your elected criminals get a bit too blatant, it is time to try a different path.

The claim that being elected gives them the right to pervert justice and steal until satisfied, and they never are, right up to their last day of term, and then escape prosecution because they gave themselves an amnesty, is rubbish. How does that lead to a better democracy?

When they eliminate or starve the anti-corruption agencies and buy off the police, how does that lead to a better democracy?

When they use part of the proceeds of crime to buy enough votes, or propose utterly ruinous populism, to return to office, how does that lead to a better democracy?

[DaffyDuck]

When they throw grenades into crowds of demonstrators and kill innocent civilians - how does that lead to better democracy?

[DaffyDuck]

I'm sure Sondhi appreciates the route to better democracy amidst the hail of bullets.

Remember this:

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2009/05/04/the-sondhi-limthongkul-assassination-effort/

Was this part of the road to better democracy?

Edited January 6, 2015 by DaffyDuck

[englishoak]

Lovely tinfoil hat you're wearing, englishoak. The truth of the matter is far simpler, and has been laid out multiple times by others in this thread (and others) and doesn't involve some muzzled discussion subjects that can't be talked out. Of course, babbling on about invisible hand conspiracies makes for a better narrative and undoubtedly makes you (and the other tools) feel an importance you otherwise might not have.

So post insults like a petulant child, mmkayy

Dont play the tinfoil hat tag with me son. That'll be your truth and not free speech and opinions of many Thai academics or political historians and experts that can discuss things in full then yes ?

Ive watched you appear and spam the pro junta line on numerous threads, I get that your a fascist shill and like to quack away to yourself but really spamming a thread with multiple posts makes you look more turkey than duck or should I say ostrich because your head is firmly in the sand or up someplace else.

At some point you will go and crawl back under your rock and disappear like most spam trolls do.

Until then dont talk to me, you dont have the breeding im afraid.

Edited January 6, 2015 by englishoak

[DaffyDuck]

Until then dont talk to me, you dont have the breeding im afraid.

"Breeding" ?? "son" ??- kinda cute coming from someone that struggles with the English language like you do. (Hint: apostrophes are a good idea. So is sentence structure).

Edited January 6, 2015 by DaffyDuck

[sjaak327]

I've been wondering about long stories based on a functioning democracy and non-corrupt politicians. Somehow those don't seem to have much to do with topics here. Here we discuss Thailand.

I guess these folks aren't really familiar with Thailand, or maybe they are talking about some utopian place with the same name. They probably have never been there, is my guess.

Funny you should say that Daffy, I know you haven't got the slightest clue when it comes to Thailand, how else could you possibly believe the current junta is trying to stop corruption. These are people from the military, and no, they aren't this rich because they married a rich wife any more than they got money due to a land sale.

The military has always been one of the most corrupt organizations in Thailand, and they are currently ensuring this will continue for quite some time.

None of which has anything to do with THE PRESENT, of course.

Yep, like I thought - he probably doesn't even know where Thailand is on a map. It's very similar to debating politics with libertarians.

Are you sure about that Daffy ? Are you convinced members of the NCPO aren't lining their pockets right now ? How about members of the government that refuse to give up their army position, it can't be for the pay, as that isn't anything special.

You lost me on the last sentence.

[DaffyDuck]

Provide sources for your claims.

Unsubstantiated allegations are invalid. I could easily disprove them with the exact same approach - in fact, claiming the NCPO to be clean and saintly is even easier, since there is no evidence to contradict such a claim (until, that is, you show actual evidence).

Bogeyman hypothetical insinuation arguments are invalid.

Of course, actual facts aren't really your forté, now.

Edited January 6, 2015 by DaffyDuck

[sjaak327]

Provide sources for your claims.

Unsubstantiated allegations are invalid. I could easily disprove them with the exact same approach - in fact, claiming the NCPO to be clean and saintly is even easier, since there is no evidence to contradict such a claim (until, that is, you show actual evidence).

Bogeyman hypothetical insinuation arguments are invalid.

Of course, actual facts aren't really your forté, now.

How could the NCPO be clean, they broke the law and are criminals. They abolished the constitution to seize power. There is nothing clean about it.

There is nothing saintly about the continued unnecessary state of Martial Law which deprives the Thai citizens from quite a few basic rights that were secured in various Thai constitutions.

Maybe re-read the OP again as to why Martial Law is still deemed necessary, it would be hilarious except for the fact that the Thai citizens have to carry the burden.

Your forte seems to be ignoring facts that are inconvenient to your continued praise for these criminals.

[DaffyDuck]

Provide sources for your claims.

It's kinda funny that with your diatribe, providing sources is to ONLY point you blatantly ignored, while monologuing irrelevantly about issues you raised yourself. Strawmen, anyone?

Edited January 6, 2015 by DaffyDuck

[sjaak327]

Provide sources for your claims.

It's kinda funny that with your diatribe, providing sources is to ONLY point you blatantly ignored, while monologuing irrelevantly about issues you raised yourself. Strawmen, anyone?

Are you seriously asking me to provide a source for the two claims I made ? Yes they abolished the constitution and replaced it with the current interim constitution and Martial Law is still among us, as witnessed by this very thread.

These two claims are very relevant considering you referred to them as clean and saintly.

But continue trying to avoid these in your continued praise for the Junta.

Edited January 6, 2015 by sjaak327

[DaffyDuck]

Are you seriously asking me to provide a source for the two claims I made ?

Yes.

I know, crazy to ask you to actually substantiate your claims. Crazeeeee!

Of course, you have (as usual) refused to do so - instead, deflecting (sorry, 'explaining) things that weren't and aren't salient to this discussion (but which you apparently enjoy repeating ad nauseam).

Nobody asked you to provide sources for the suspended constitution and the establishment of martial law (albeit, just for the record, you really haven't provided sources for that either... but I'd digress).

You were asked (and, of course, you know that, but are playing 'dumb') to provided sources for you 'begging the question' claim of "Are you convinced members of the NCPO aren't lining their pockets right now ? How about members of the government that refuse to give up their army position, it can't be for the pay, as that isn't anything special."

... and, of course, you didn't provide any sources for that (as usual).

​This is becoming a habit of yours, isn't it?

[baboon]

Leaving politics and affiliations out of it for a moment, don't the supporters of authoritarian rule not see that most adults take gross bloody offence at other self-appointed adults telling them what to do, think and behave?

Tipper Gore? Jimmy Swaggart? The Taliban? Mary Whitehouse, anyone?

[DaffyDuck]

don't the supporters of authoritarian rule not see that most adults take gross bloody offence at other self-appointed adults telling them what to do, think and behave?

I think, if anything, that's a personal problem specific to you.

No matter what government you are dealing with, you ALWAYS have other adults telling you what to do, think, and how to behave. There is no difference in a so-called 'democratic' society, so your argument is quite invalid.

[baboon]

don't the supporters of authoritarian rule not see that most adults take gross bloody offence at other self-appointed adults telling them what to do, think and behave?

I think, if anything, that's a personal problem specific to you.

No matter what government you are dealing with, you ALWAYS have other adults telling you what to do, think, and how to behave. There is no difference in a so-called 'democratic' society, so your argument is quite invalid.

Stop posting on here.

[rubl]

Well, if some constantly point to the past of Thailand, we're also not discussing democracy or lack of corruption.

Some are consistently pointing to the past to avoid discussing the present. The OP is all about the present and the future, yet the junta supporters can only discuss the past.

Thailand had a flawed democracy that could have evolved into something better. Every functioning democracy I am aware of started out as a flawed democracy that had to learn from experience to become a functioning democracy. No democracy that I am aware of originated in military rule, unless you count those countries that were so disgusted by military rule the people kicked the generals out in order to bring about democracy.

So complain some only want to discuss the past following which you do so yourself?

Anyway, I'm sure Martial Law will be lifted in time for elections to be arranged and conducted under normal law. As history teaches us the Military did that before

[rubl]

don't the supporters of authoritarian rule not see that most adults take gross bloody offence at other self-appointed adults telling them what to do, think and behave?

I think, if anything, that's a personal problem specific to you.

No matter what government you are dealing with, you ALWAYS have other adults telling you what to do, think, and how to behave. There is no difference in a so-called 'democratic' society, so your argument is quite invalid.

Stop posting on here.

Democratic would be "please consider to refrain from posting here for the following reasons ... ..."

You seem to have given a command.

[baboon]

^^

Exactly, rubl and who the hell am I to be telling people what to do? That was my point.