French man found hanged in Koh Tao with his hands tied behind his back – foul play suspected

[Soutpeel]

While it is true that some suicides try to secure their hands in case of a desire to struggle/survive/change their mins, this is invariably done with the strong, plastic ties with the locking mechanism ( ie, with some planning and forethought of the consequences). Never heard of it being done with what appears to be knots of some intricacy as per the photograph.

You've never heard of that being done because -- surprise, surprise, Please be seated -- JTJ is clueless regarding reality.

How much less embarrassing it would be if some people just even did the tiniest of research before making absolutely incorrect statements that show a complete ignorance of a topic. Shoot, don't even have to do work, just challenge somebody to provide credible links instead of making uninformed and embarrassingly incorrect statements.

Numerous very credible links on this thread by a number of posters to show just how clueless the above responses are but I have a feeling it doesn't matter as some people would rather be emotional than informed or speak intelligently on a subject.

Not remotely embarrassing. Those cited in the study bear absolutely no resemblance to the knots in this case. None.

If this is a suicide, so be it but it is right to question and to be suspicious because everything else that has come off that island is highly suspect. The embarrassment here is your continued denial that this is the case, whatever your motives.

And even more embarrassing ... you do realize what you wrote is right above and that you have no clue of what types of knots were used let alone how many given there is just a low res blown up image of a partial wrist to go on when it comes to the knot(s). Absolutely nothing wrong with questioning or even speculating given we don't know all the facts yet but something wrong with stating things as fact that are both incorrect and then going on to double down and reinvent what you said rather than just learning or admitting a simple mistake.

Precautions Taken to Avoid Abandoning the Act of Hanging and Reducing Pain in Suicidal Hanging Cases

http://www.academia....l_Hanging_Cases

COMMON MEANS OF SUICIDE

http://www.indmedica...&action=article

Even more embarrassing JohnJohn is your continued support and apologist comments on behalf of the RTP, what is your agenda ?

[JohnThailandJohn]

While it is true that some suicides try to secure their hands in case of a desire to struggle/survive/change their mins, this is invariably done with the strong, plastic ties with the locking mechanism ( ie, with some planning and forethought of the consequences). Never heard of it being done with what appears to be knots of some intricacy as per the photograph.

You've never heard of that being done because -- surprise, surprise, Please be seated -- JTJ is clueless regarding reality.

Not remotely embarrassing. Those cited in the study bear absolutely no resemblance to the knots in this case. None.

If this is a suicide, so be it but it is right to question and to be suspicious because everything else that has come off that island is highly suspect. The embarrassment here is your continued denial that this is the case, whatever your motives.

You do realize what you wrote is right above and that you have no clue of what types of knots were used let alone how many given there is just a low res blown up image of a partial wrist to go on when it comes to the knot(s). Absolutely nothing wrong with questioning or even speculating given we don't know all the facts yet but something wrong with stating things as fact that are both incorrect and then going on to double down and reinvent what you said rather than just learning or admitting a simple mistake.

Precautions Taken to Avoid Abandoning the Act of Hanging and Reducing Pain in Suicidal Hanging Cases

http://www.academia....l_Hanging_Cases

COMMON MEANS OF SUICIDE

http://www.indmedica...&action=article

And in your mind what makes the knot you see in the photo so detailed or very complicated (intricate) ... especially more so than in photos above or the one or the double knot one the little girl in the video above makes?

Question all you want but claiming somebody is wrong by making false claims, you should be embarrassed.

[greenchair]

Now another coincidence is the fact that one of the more prominent persons concerned in this matter and its investigation has just returned to the island clad in cloth of a brilliant hue as opposed to those he was wearing on the night of the murders.

That clothing of a brilliant hue in Thai society at all levels tends to make one untouchable and also puts one above suspicion too as well as allowing free movement as well as access to anywhere without question.

Now is it not strange that shortly after the return of a person in a change of clothing that might well make the wearer both justice proof and bullet proof a 'suicide'' of a Frenchman occurs.

Considering the comment that a ''Frenchman'' had valuable evidence concerning the murders of Hannah and David, I and I am sure I am not alone in my thoughts find it all rather odd , strange or even convenient for some that this Frenchman committed suicide.

Strange that Sean should speak about a suggestion he would end up hanging himself (possibly with assistance) yet he seems to have escaped that action, yet this Frenchman seems to have gone down the road to eternity in the fashion that Sean described was offered to

Post add by GC. Sorry poly.

Gosh, trouble seems to follow this person of changing colours.

Is there a video at his place of stay, to show that he was tucked up in his bed on the morning of the 2nd.

Edited January 4, 2015 by greenchair

[JohnThailandJohn]

Even more embarrassing JohnJohn is your continued support and apologist comments on behalf of the RTP, what is your agenda ?

I have never said anything about the RTP and just have spoke about what appears to be a likely suicide. You though appears to have an obsession about being upset and angry and paranoid about anything and anyone who tried to use logic and fact if it doesn't directly make the RTP look bad.

But for the record, I don't think the RTP had anything to do with this person's death be it a suicide or murder and will wait for the autopsy report before making a final decision as to the cause ... and if they rule suicide and no reason to suspect foul play I will agree (and you will whine apologist like angry little child) and if they say foul play, I will agree with that too because I am neither paranoid, delusional or paranoid and accept and understand I will never have access to this case and that it is just sheer stupidity to believe the coroner has any stake in the game or would collude with police to cover up this person's murder without any logical reason to believe otherwise.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Even more embarrassing JohnJohn is your continued support and apologist comments on behalf of the RTP, what is your agenda ?

I have never said anything about the RTP and just have spoke about what appears to be a likely suicide. You though appears to have an obsession about being upset and angry and paranoid about anything and anyone who tried to use logic and fact if it doesn't directly make the RTP look bad.

But for the record, I don't think the RTP had anything to do with this person's death be it a suicide or murder and will wait for the autopsy report before making a final decision as to the cause ... and if they rule suicide and no reason to suspect foul play I will agree (and you will whine apologist like angry little child) and if they say foul play, I will agree with that too because I am neither paranoid, delusional or paranoid and accept and understand I will never have access to this case and that it is just sheer stupidity to believe the coroner has any stake in the game or would collude with police to cover up this person's murder without any logical reason to believe otherwise.

Next you will be suggesting Nomsod had something to do with this ... oh wait, are you one of the ones who have already done that?

Edited January 4, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[aimbc]

I think it's nearly impossible to step into the noose after tying your hands in the back. We can all agree that the rope is of a nylon make. If it was hanging down from the ceiling, it would be nearly impossible to slip your head through it, as there would be no shape at all. So the person must have slipped it on first and then proceeded to tie the knot on his wrist and stepped through to position his arm to the back.

But to step thorough while wearing a sarong, it's quite a feat, but I am sure if you try, it would be possible. Not sure how tight the sarong was on him our how long it was. It doesn't leave much room to bend your knees. The chances of losing balance is quite high.

Looking at the link for hand behind the back suicide that many people posted, it seems very plausible. But what seems to be consistent in most of these cases, are the height in which they apparently jumped to their death. This could be because they would be able to slip the noose over their head first and have ample rope length to allow them to get their hands to the back.

But as I can see from the pics, it doesn't appear to have that much type play as the person was hanging from the ceiling.

I don't see with that little rope play and wearing a sarong, one can step through ones arm.

But it not impossible what a human being is capable of doing. Possible, the person has a degree of flexibility. If it was me, it would be very hard and nearly impossible. But with all the past cases, it would be very easy to do if they jump from a high place.

I think it's nearly impossible to step into the noose after tying your hands in the back. We can all agree that the rope is of a nylon make. If it was hanging down from the ceiling, it would be nearly impossible to slip your head through it, as there would be no shape at all.

It would only be possible with a creative solution, which I think should leave signs behind. You could do something like using a week thread tied to the noose to hold it open in a preset position. This would allow you to put your head through and the weak thread would then break when you jumped. The problem I have with such an idea is that anyone clever enough to devise this would also have been clever enough to arrange for the knot to be at the side of the neck where it causes death more quickly and efficiently. Perhaps, Dmitri was in a confused but creative state and this really was suicide.

Perhaps it's a suicide, but every situation should be treated as a fresh case and hopefully the rtp does not just brush it off and go by some historical cases and call suicide. As I see some posters here have already set in their mind.

[Skywalker69]

If one wants to hang one self I understand to tie your hands is to make sure to go through with it but why make it harder by binding your hands behind the back?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Skywalker69

[JohnThailandJohn]

If one wants to hang one self I understand to tie your hands is to make sure to go through with it but why make it harder by binding your hands behind the back?

Would assume so you can't reach the noose or your neck ... having your hands in front wouldn't be all that much different than not having them tied at all.

[roo860]

With all this nonsense going on here on TV with all the 'how he did it' crap, I am beginning to believe no planes hit the Twin Towers!!!!!

[JohnThailandJohn]

The most common way to avoid getting caught for murder is to try to make it look like a suicide.

Simply not true.

How many murders you committed JohnJohn to make such a definitive statement ?

Given that most murders are not planned out there is obviously not staging of a suicide after you stab somebody or shoot them from a far or during a commission of a crime .... simply logic, that seems to escape you, would dictate things like lying, hiding the weapon, getting rid of the body, getting an alibi, making it look like the motive was something different (domestic abuse) and a host of others things would come before trying to take the pre-planning to make a murder look like a suicide of somebody who has no reason to commit suicide.

Feel like I am talking to a stubborn little child who just refuses to accept the obvious if it goes against what they want to believe or their agenda based on childish emotions.

[JohnThailandJohn]

John ThailandJohn post # 546.

And in your mind what makes the knot you see in the photo so detailed or very complicated (intricate) ... especially more so than in photos above or the one or the double knot one the little girl in the video above makes?

Question all you want but claiming somebody is wrong by making false claims, you should be embarrassed.

Question all you want but claiming somebody is wrong by making false claims, you should be embarrassed.

It would seem as if JTJ among other team members of the pro police farce force investigation is incapable of both taking his or her, their own advice.

Now what might be the motives for the blind rabid defence of the flawed investigation by the police farce force with regard to the deaths on Koh Tao?

Business connections ,an emotional connection i.e. ''love,'' or possibly being privy to the acts that led to the deaths of both Hannah and David and the subsequent demise of the Frenchman hence a desire to obscure or even distort and destroy the truth as a self preservation factor.

Here we go again with posters here possibly being part or maybe involved in the murders them selves or even government agents as some have already suggested on this board and others. Gets beyond fun conspiracy theory speculation into what may be paranoid delusions.

[greenchair]

Timeline update ⏳

Where was....

Mon

Copper

Stingray Man

NS

John thailand John

On the 2nd of January ??

[carmine]

John have you ever been on scene of a suicide, or are you just one of those text book experts?

As opposed to a social media conspiracy theorist who ignores experts, those who were at the scene and textbook facts and relies on rumors and speculations?

The only relevance to having been at the scene of a suicide is if you were at this one. But one thing extremely common in suicides is there are always questions left unanswered and often doubters of it being a suicide regardless of who investigates.

Wouldn't you agree John that Thailand seems a remarkably popular suicide destination?! Almost "unbelievably" popular infact.

[HansIsaan]

Timeline update ⏳

Where was....

Mon

Copper

Stingray Man

NS

John thailand John

On the 2nd of January ??

Is there already some CCTV-footage of a running monk anywhere?

[JohnThailandJohn]

John have you ever been on scene of a suicide, or are you just one of those text book experts?

As opposed to a social media conspiracy theorist who ignores experts, those who were at the scene and textbook facts and relies on rumors and speculations?

The only relevance to having been at the scene of a suicide is if you were at this one. But one thing extremely common in suicides is there are always questions left unanswered and often doubters of it being a suicide regardless of who investigates.

Wouldn't you agree John that Thailand seems a remarkably popular suicide destination?! Almost "unbelievably" popular infact.

Actually foreigner deaths are simply reported more here. There is a suicide about every 12-minutes in the US but rarely are they reported. Take a city like Las Vegas and it averages about 1 suicide every day ... a party place, with lots of crime, lots of love for sale and lots of ways to loose your money. Also interesting to note as would be suspected hotels are a very common place to commit suicide including jumping off balconies.

So no, it is not surprising to see there being a higher number of suicides in Thailand but does surprise me a bit that numerous posters here act as though they never read a newspaper in their own country and with each news item (usually a bad and not very common story - why it is news) people react as if it is the norm or find ways to condemn entire cultures, organization or races over the acts of a few.

As a side note, Thailand (including the foreigner suicides) actually doesn't have a high suicide rate. But my guess is that it does for foreigners given their age and vices that exist here that many foreigners specially come here for.

Edited January 4, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[alantheembalmer]

During my time as an embalmer, I dealt with more suicide cases than I care to remember, including some real novelty ways of leaving this life, but I never had a case of hanging that had his hands tied behind his back.

[berybert]

During my time as an embalmer, I dealt with more suicide cases than I care to remember, including some real novelty ways of leaving this life, but I never had a case of hanging that had his hands tied behind his back.

You should head over to Koh Tao. Plenty of work for you there.

I would like to see anyone on this forum try to tie their hands behind their back. See how easy it is.

[stephen terry]

I would like to lean towards the suicide assertion because the foul-play alternatives, such as sending a message, are far more horrific. The simplest scenario would have been a hanging with a chair kicked away. I agree it could be a suicide but because there are cuts to his neck, arm, and wrist, plus his hands knotted behind his back, it is not so simple - and it is right and proper to suspect foul play until proven otherwise.

The 'proven otherwise' could be forensic examination results, suicide note, plus opinions from friends and family as to his state of mind that make the suicide option the most likely cause of death, however convoluted.

The murder option, IMO, is becoming less likely because it doesn't fit the pattern of a gang attack as in the murders of Hannah and David - this would be cold, controlled emotion, not rage. For this reason, I think this death is unconnected to theirs, although it cannot be ruled out because it happened on the same island.

[BritTim]

Actually foreigner deaths are simply reported more here. There is a suicide about every 12-minutes in the US but rarely are they reported. Take a city like Las Vegas and it averages about 1 suicide every day ... a party place, with lots of crime, lots of love for sale and lots of ways to loose your money. Also interesting to note as would be suspected hotels are a very common place to commit suicide including jumping off balconies.

So no, it is not surprising to see there being a higher number of suicides in Thailand but does surprise me a bit that numerous posters here act as though they never read a newspaper in their own country and with each news item (usually a bad and not very common story - why it is news) people react as if it is the norm or find ways to condemn entire cultures, organization or races over the acts of a few.

As a side note, Thailand (including the foreigner suicides) actually doesn't have a high suicide rate. But my guess is that it does for foreigners given their age and vices that exist here that many foreigners specially come here for.

Some good and valid points, though I am reminded of the remark about "lies, damn lies and statistics". The overall suicide rate in Thailand is about half that of the US. I think a major reason is that, in Thailand, families still tend to be rather cohesive and people in trouble are less often left to suffer without any support network. Also, guns are not conveniently lying around in most Thai homes for people to use on an impulse.

What some of us would argue is that police corruption here makes it easier for a rich, well-connected individual to have a murder declared to be something else. There may only be a few such cases involving foreigners a year (but how can we estimate the numbers) but that does not mean they should be ignored.

Edited January 4, 2015 by BritTim

[JohnThailandJohn]

I would like to see anyone on this forum try to tie their hands behind their back. See how easy it is.

Then simply step through

[BobbyLambo]

"French man found hanged in Koh Tao with his hands tied behind his back – foul play suspected"

Foul play suspected? ...ya think?

[Beetlejuice]

A Frenchman called, Dmitri?

It appears that in Thailand deaths of farangs is a suicide until proven otherwise.

Sadly I very much doubt that how and why this person died will be established and this is the last we will hear of this case. Just another mystery death to add to the lists. But it does seem that the proportion of farang deaths here in Thailand is exceptionally high and rather scary. The question being, WHY?

[berybert]

I would like to see anyone on this forum try to tie their hands behind their back. See how easy it is.

Then simply step through

Ok well that was easy enough. Can you now show me a video of someone stepping thru their tied hands.

But their hands must be as tightly tied as the French guys were, not just some loose tie like she made.

[wendycraig]

Hi,

After 4 previous visits to Thailand, (having deliberately avoided Pattaya + Phuket), we have "bitten the bullet" and have flights from OZ to KL and on to Surat Thani in June for three weeks, so we could at least satisfy our curiosity regarding Samui and neighbouring islands.

The plan was to visit KS, KP, and KT, then ferry to Chumphon, Lang Suan, and bus back to Surat Thani.

It now seems wise to avoid Koh Tao altogether.

or: avoid the islands altogether, and add Sichon, and Khanom to the itinerary ?

FWIW we are late 50s euros from australia, who would like to avoid trouble and have no interest in the seedy side of life, know it goes on any where, but heck, sometimes its bleedin' obvious.

[freedom4life]

Military is busy searching cars and persons, for no justifiable reason..expats getting killed on Koh Tao...very nice, very nice.

Edited January 4, 2015 by MJP

[Jip99]

Military is busy searching cars and persons, for no justifiable reason..expats getting killed on Koh Tao...very nice, very nice.

I am very happy that the Thai authorities are being vigilant.

[Willy Eckerslike]

I would like to see anyone on this forum try to tie their hands behind their back. See how easy it is.

Then simply step through

Ok well that was easy enough. Can you now show me a video of someone stepping thru their tied hands.

But their hands must be as tightly tied as the French guys were, not just some loose tie like she made.

With her head in a sling whilst balancing on a handrail

[stephen terry]

Hi,

After 4 previous visits to Thailand, (having deliberately avoided Pattaya + Phuket), we have "bitten the bullet" and have flights from OZ to KL and on to Surat Thani in June for three weeks, so we could at least satisfy our curiosity regarding Samui and neighbouring islands.

The plan was to visit KS, KP, and KT, then ferry to Chumphon, Lang Suan, and bus back to Surat Thani.

It now seems wise to avoid Koh Tao altogether.

or: avoid the islands altogether, and add Sichon, and Khanom to the itinerary ?

FWIW we are late 50s euros from australia, who would like to avoid trouble and have no interest in the seedy side of life, know it goes on any where, but heck, sometimes its bleedin' obvious.

I lived in Khanom for a few years - it is peaceful with a few local and friendly restaurants/bars on beach road catering for tourists. Gradually becoming more popular. Beautiful paradise and restful - Google it. Sichon is more typically a Thai town, not a lot to see and do, but it does have one beach bay that is worth a day trip.

From Khanom you can catch the ferry at Donsak across to Samui - the north of the island is away from the 'entertainment'. All venues will have some rain in June, that's to be expected, but not enough to spoil a holiday. Samui does have the advantage that you can catch baht buses to travel around without having to hire a motorbike, but they're not cheap at night.

If you want a small resort contact in Khanom, PM me.

[lildragon]

CSI LA reposted the famous Sean McAnna talking about his encounter with the island mafia and how they told he would be 'hanged'. Interesting link there.

[aimbc]

I would like to see anyone on this forum try to tie their hands behind their back. See how easy it is.

Then simply step through

Ok well that was easy enough. Can you now show me a video of someone stepping thru their tied hands.

But their hands must be as tightly tied as the French guys were, not just some loose tie like she made.

With her head in a sling whilst balancing on a handrail

Wearing a sarong