Which is easier to ride at the track, sit up and beg type or sport bike type?

[LWM]

I get it ... all the road racers and go fast types ride the sport bike type.

I normally ride a sit up and beg Kawasaki ER6F at the track ... pretty comfortable ... able to get my azz crack over the seat edge on corners ... knee down ...

so ...

I got a chance to try a Suzuki 750 and a ZX6 on the track ... way more power ... but the riding position didn't make me want to hang off and really get down on it ...

Fine seating position going in a straight line ... but not inspiring in the corners

So ... is this something that one eventually adjusts to and is glad they did a year later on ... or are the sport bikes just plain harder to ride??

thx

LWM

[Gsxrnz]

It's a bit of a different feeling and technique but not dissimilar. Did the available power of the sportsbikes maybe give you a feeling that made you ride more cautiously? What were the tyres and suspension like compared to what you feel is normal on your ER6?

I'm surprised that you can knee down on an ER6 but felt uncomfortable on a sportsbike.

Maybe the combination of higher and and further back footpegs and lower and further forward clip-ons just need to be gotten used to. Or maybe the bike wasn't set up for you properly.

I used to race a ZX6 and it was the bees knees for the class.

With sportsbikes you really have to set up the clip-ons, levers, pegs to suit your height, weight, and riding style to feel comfortable. And that'[s before you even get to the tyres and suspension.

Keep on plugging away - there's nothing quite like riding a real sportsbike in the natural environment they were created for - the track.

EDIT: Just read your post again. Maybe you can drag a knee on an ER6 because you're actually twisting your lower body and extending your knee while still maintaining your upper body relatively in line. On a sportsbike you really have to get your whole body over uniformly, to the point where you feel like your head is lower than your shoulder. It's not, but if you get that feeling of leading with your head/shoulder and look as far around the curve as you can, then you're inclined to get a better riding position.

Steering (well, counter steering in reality) becomes more natural because your outer arm is on the tank and your inner elbow is looking for the tarmac. I suspect that on your ER6 you still have a feeling of actually steering the machine from behind the handlebars even if you are bisecting the seat with your arse - quite different on a sportsbike.

Also you'll have to consider how your inner foot is placed on the peg. Ideally the balls of your feet, or even your toes if you have the twist your foot style - as in have the sole of your boot up against the frame to get your knee further extended.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Gsxrnz

[taninthai]

Once you get used to the sports bike position it's much better a lot less wind resistance when flying down the straights,just got to get the confidence to really hang off it head near where wing mirror would be and leg locked into the tank

[LWM]

It's a bit of a different feeling and technique but not dissimilar. Did the available power of the sportsbikes maybe give you a feeling that made you ride more cautiously? What were the tyres and suspension like compared to what you feel is normal on your ER6?

The Sport bikes had me sliding back on the seat under acceleration ... I figure you get accustomed to that but at the time it was ... a ... "Holy Shit Batman" ... moment ... so I was inclined to approach the corners more carefully

The Sport bikes actually gave me the feeling of being perched up on top of them ... even more so than my ER6 ... I was expecting to feel more immersed or down lower ...

I'm surprised that you can knee down on an ER6 but felt uncomfortable on a sportsbike.

Maybe the combination of higher and and further back footpegs and lower and further forward clip-ons just need to be gotten used to. Or maybe the bike wasn't set up for you properly.

I'm 6' tall and almost 100kg ... not exactly ideal body size and mass ...

I used to race a ZX6 and it was the bees knees for the class.

With sportsbikes you really have to set up the clip-ons, levers, pegs to suit your height, weight, and riding style to feel comfortable. And that'[s before you even get to the tyres and suspension.

Keep on plugging away - there's nothing quite like riding a real sportsbike in the natural environment they were created for - the track.

EDIT: Just read your post again. Maybe you can drag a knee on an ER6 because you're actually twisting your lower body and extending your knee while still maintaining your upper body relatively in line. On a sportsbike you really have to get your whole body over uniformly, to the point where you feel like your head is lower than your shoulder. It's not, but if you get that feeling of leading with your head/shoulder and look as far around the curve as you can, then you're inclined to get a better riding position.

I try and get my helmet down on my arm when cornering and try to get my head lower than the handle grip ... can't really see getting much lower ... though I admit that I have been criticized for lack of upper body movement ...

Steering (well, counter steering in reality) becomes more natural because your outer arm is on the tank and your inner elbow is looking for the tarmac. I suspect that on your ER6 you still have a feeling of actually steering the machine from behind the handlebars even if you are bisecting the seat with your arse - quite different on a sportsbike.

Honestly ... I have never had a conscious thought about steering the ER6 ... it just seems to go where I want it ...

Also you'll have to consider how your inner foot is placed on the peg. Ideally the balls of your feet, or even your toes if you have the twist your foot style - as in have the sole of your boot up against the frame to get your knee further extended.

I try to keep the balls of my feet on the end of the foot peg ... or even the entire foot inboard ... otherwise I find them touching the pavement ... usually when least expected ... leads to blood pressure spikes and unsettling the bike ...

Thx Gsrrnz,

When on the ER6 going from side to side as in through a chicane I do put a lot of effort into my legs ... just about come off the seat during the unweighting process ... seems like I can hang on to the sit up and beg bars during this process ... riding the sport bike did not make me want to try this ... what are you doing different ... if anything ... when doing rapid weight shifts on a sport bike with the clip on handle bars?

Are you sliding more from side to side or do you use your legs to drive the process?

When riding the sport bike do you put any body weight on the fuel tank? When I went for the drive ... I did not put any body weight on the fuel tank ... I do remember my arms being rather straight ...

thx

LWM

[Gsxrnz]

It's a bit of a different feeling and technique but not dissimilar. Did the available power of the sportsbikes maybe give you a feeling that made you ride more cautiously? What were the tyres and suspension like compared to what you feel is normal on your ER6?

The Sport bikes had me sliding back on the seat under acceleration ... I figure you get accustomed to that but at the time it was ... a ... "Holy Shit Batman" ... moment ... so I was inclined to approach the corners more carefully

The Sport bikes actually gave me the feeling of being perched up on top of them ... even more so than my ER6 ... I was expecting to feel more immersed or down lower ...

I'm surprised that you can knee down on an ER6 but felt uncomfortable on a sportsbike.

Maybe the combination of higher and and further back footpegs and lower and further forward clip-ons just need to be gotten used to. Or maybe the bike wasn't set up for you properly.

I'm 6' tall and almost 100kg ... not exactly ideal body size and mass ...

I used to race a ZX6 and it was the bees knees for the class.

With sportsbikes you really have to set up the clip-ons, levers, pegs to suit your height, weight, and riding style to feel comfortable. And that'[s before you even get to the tyres and suspension.

Keep on plugging away - there's nothing quite like riding a real sportsbike in the natural environment they were created for - the track.

EDIT: Just read your post again. Maybe you can drag a knee on an ER6 because you're actually twisting your lower body and extending your knee while still maintaining your upper body relatively in line. On a sportsbike you really have to get your whole body over uniformly, to the point where you feel like your head is lower than your shoulder. It's not, but if you get that feeling of leading with your head/shoulder and look as far around the curve as you can, then you're inclined to get a better riding position.

I try and get my helmet down on my arm when cornering and try to get my head lower than the handle grip ... can't really see getting much lower ... though I admit that I have been criticized for lack of upper body movement ...

Steering (well, counter steering in reality) becomes more natural because your outer arm is on the tank and your inner elbow is looking for the tarmac. I suspect that on your ER6 you still have a feeling of actually steering the machine from behind the handlebars even if you are bisecting the seat with your arse - quite different on a sportsbike.

Honestly ... I have never had a conscious thought about steering the ER6 ... it just seems to go where I want it ...

Also you'll have to consider how your inner foot is placed on the peg. Ideally the balls of your feet, or even your toes if you have the twist your foot style - as in have the sole of your boot up against the frame to get your knee further extended.

I try to keep the balls of my feet on the end of the foot peg ... or even the entire foot inboard ... otherwise I find them touching the pavement ... usually when least expected ... leads to blood pressure spikes and unsettling the bike ...

Thx Gsrrnz,

When on the ER6 going from side to side as in through a chicane I do put a lot of effort into my legs ... just about come off the seat during the unweighting process ... seems like I can hang on to the sit up and beg bars during this process ... riding the sport bike did not make me want to try this ... what are you doing different ... if anything ... when doing rapid weight shifts on a sport bike with the clip on handle bars?

Are you sliding more from side to side or do you use your legs to drive the process?

When riding the sport bike do you put any body weight on the fuel tank? When I went for the drive ... I did not put any body weight on the fuel tank ... I do remember my arms being rather straight ...

thx

LWM

Yep, you should get your arse off the seat as opposed to sliding, so you need to work the legs. I don't mean stand up, but definitely take 90% of your weight off your arse. Simply sliding across can lead to tank slappers. Do the same on a sportsbike.

The tank will be touching your abdomen and depending on how big that abdomen is will vary how you do it. In a curve, your belly above the outer hip will be in contact. On the straights, it depends on the same factors as well as how forward/rearward you sit. I guess in both circumstances there is some weight going on the tank, but really is minimal - it shouldn't be used as a rest for your abdomen. However, if you have bent arms (which you should), then your weight will be lower and more forward so your chest will be touching the tank. This also helps in acceleration.

Arms should DEFINITELY not be straight from wrist to shoulder. Lower arms should be horizontal, allowing you to get your body/head lower and take weight OFF the clip-ons. This will also allow easier steering - try banging a nail in with straight arms, it don't work. You have to bend your arms to get better and more effortless leverage. Don't have a death grip on the grips as this will straighten your arms and make steering more effort, as well as make your entire style appear stiff. Your stomach muscles and back are probably used a lot more on a sportsbike to control weight distribution than a sit up and beg.

Even in braking, don't straighten your arms as this transfers weight through your arms straight to the front suspension and will hamper the effect. In the heavy/early period of braking, clench your tank with the knees like you're trying to kill it and keep the weight off your arms/hands. Don't grab a handful of brake, ease on to pre-load the suspension and then progressively apply the lever. (The rear brake is for decoration only and unless you're experienced in backing out of a corner or damping the back end coming out, leave it alone.) Later in the braking as you're easing off you can relax the knee grip to assume your cornering position. Maintain bent arms at all times.

When accelerating, you should have your body low enough over the tank, with bent arms, to reduce that <deleted> feeling. Sure, squeeze your knees if you have to - that's probably better than getting a death grip on the bars.

Don't look at your gauges - put tape over the speedo and if you have a shift light, then set it up and use that to indicate a gear change. Lots of trackday riders have run off because they're looking at the speedo. News Flash - most speedos read 30klm fast at 240klm/h anyway.

On a sportsbike your foot should never touch the road unless you actually tip it over. Unless you have "hero screws" screwed under your pegs - if you have these take them off, they're annoying and do nothing for you. If your foot does touch the ground then it's because of having paddle feet, but I see you've got that sorted.

Your helmet shouldn't be on your arm. Your head should be vertical/perpendicular to the ground (or as near as possible) in a curve to give you proper perspective of the bend. You should be looking as far around the corner as possible with a vertical head, and if anything you should be sort of pushing your head out and around the bend like a turtle. Your helmet may touch your shoulder under the chin, but that's about all.

I think maybe the straight arms sounds like the biggest thing you didn't get right. This affects so many things that will just feel scary if you have straight arms with weight going into them on braking, and a general tendency to death grip the bars more so than if they were relaxed/bent.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Gsxrnz

[ll2]

you just need to get used of the ergonomy of a supersport bike and that is it.

after that it feels much more better.

[garryjohns]

Of course , if you are used to riding a naked bike full time , your first play on a sportsbike will feel different.

One or other really is no easier or harder than the other if you are on the one you are used to , and comfortable on

If you are track daying for fun, stick to you preferred type of bike and just ride that as you know how from on road experience and enjoy it to the max

If you are not worrying about the various idiosyncrasies of the different bike you will have a lot more fun.

I ride my XJR1300 on track days and ride it like a big super moto bike and have a real ball.

Many a sports bike gets left behind, that's a buzz in itself.