Tax or no tax

[merideur]

Hi everybody,

I am a 67 years old frenchman, retired in Pattaya since more than 10 years. No business nor work. My one year retirement visa is renewed every year, no problem

I have in Europe, outside France, one saving account and a life insurance that bring also interests.

I have never declared those revenues in France and of course, not in Thailand as well

For many years I didn t had any problem, but now my bank in Europe is asking me the proof that I declare those revenues in Thailand and to show the official documents that I pay taxes on these in Thailand.

I dont care to pay taxes in Thailand for my revenues in Europe if I have to, instead of having to pay them in France

But where can I get information as to which office to go in Pattaya and what to do,

even if you know a local specialist on this mater I will apreciates if you can give me his adress

All input will be greatly appreciated, Thanks to all

[Ludacris]

Probably a good idea to talk to a tax lawyer in Thailand.

You could read up on this first to give yourself some background info, especially article 7 on page 15.

http://www.tilleke.com/sites/default/files/Thailand-Tax-Guide.pdf

7.

Territorial Rules

Under the Revenue Code, an individual, Thai or foreign, who derives assessable income

from sources in Thailand is liable to pay personal income tax whether or not such income is

paid within or outside Thailand.

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an aggregate

period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a resident of

Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal income tax

on incomefrom sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived from sources outside

Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived outside Thailand will apply only

to income derived and brought into Thailand in the same year in which such income is

earned. A non-resident is subject to pay tax only on income from sources within Thailand

(irrespective of the place of payment).

Assessable income from sources in Thailand include the following:

a. income from a post or an office held in Thailand;

b. income from a business carried on in Thailand;

c. income from the business of an employer in Thailand;

d. income from a property situated in Thailand.

Assessable income from sources outside Thailand include the following:

a. income from a post or office held abroad;

b. income from a business carried on abroad;

c. income from a property situated abroad

[falang07]

The question is if you are a tax resident in France. If you are (it depends on how this is defined in the French law), then have a look at the corresponding double tax treaty between France and Thailand since your tax liabilities are governed by this agreement. France is known for it's very unfair tax laws so I suspect paying in here will not spare you from having to pay the rest in France (especially since the life insurance is made in France so Thailand does not give a *** about it :-) and you can not pay tax in here even if you wanted since this income is subject to income tax in France.

[vtjforyou]

Bring your money to Singapore instead of dead Europe...

[meatboy]

the income you recieve is nothing to do with thailand your affairs is in france,only income earned in thailand is taxable after your personel allowance is considered[ 150,000bht.] if you have any bank accs in thailand,eg.fixed interest the tax at 15% is withheld by the thai bank,then on maturity you recieve a tax certificate to show how much interest you earned,and the amount of tax they withheld.this you can claim back from the tax office.

see bank interest rates in this forum.

[Robert24]

I'm with vtjforyou on this one. Plenty of countries and banks that do not require such a confirmation. I'd move the account.

Of course nobody pays tax in Thailand on income from outside Thailand, be it rental income or be it interest on savings, dividends whatever it may be. I find it inappropriate that your bank in France wants a confirmation of you that you pay tax on this in Thailand. Really none of their business.

[MillionairePlayboy]

Here's what is happening.

Countries in Europe are cracking down on residents who have savings accounts in other countries but not declaring them. Your bank is trying to ensure you are not a Frenchman who is really resident in France (and therefore liable). Generally the way banks do this is to ask you to prove your tax residency in the country you claim to live.

It sounds like you are tax resident in Thailand, but with no taxable income. You might have a difficult task in proving this, especially for previous years, and you probably don't want to get involved with a Thai bureacracy to do so. One solution would be to move your banking arrangements to another jurisdiction - Singapore or Hong Kong.

[45slap]

Time to say au rèvoir to that bank. Screw them.

[cmsanuk]

Bonjour,

I'm French too, almost the same age, ten years on one year retirement extensions.

There is a fiscal convention between France and Thailand that you can download from the website. Impots.gouv.fr or just google "convention fiscale France thaïlande" and you will find it. For French public (state) pensions and for rental income from apartmemt(s) or house(s) situated in France taxes are to be paid to France BUT for interests (bank account, life insurance policy ...) taxes are to be paid to Thailand even if they originate 100% from outside Thailand.

To find the address of the local office of the Revenue Department (Department of Revenue?) have a look at their website (they have a section in english).

I can see Two possible problems:

- the Thai fiscal authorities might start by doing an in depth tax assessment (contrôle fiscal) to make sure you have no other hidden taxable income

- the fact that these sources of income have never been declared to the French or the Thai fiscal authorities might (will?) be a second (big?) problem

In Pattaya there is an expat club and may be a French expat association. They might have more info as to what to do and may be advise you as to the choice of a lawyer or accountant who could help you. Going to the local office of the Revenue Department on your own without precise knowledge of what to do might get you into deep (fiscal) troubles.

I hope you'll find help and sound advice among the French community of Pattaya.

Good luck !

[JimGant]

but now my bank in Europe is asking me the proof that I declare those revenues in Thailand and to show the official documents that I pay taxes on these in Thailand.

Wow, with all the anti-US FATCA dialogue, complaining that foreign banks have to identify US persons, then report their income to the IRS -- this is an interesting twist -- as it sounds like banks in Europe are running the traps on whether or not their clients are tax compliant with their home country. This is quite a further step than, per FATCA, just reporting one's income to the home country of record -- then letting that country decide on tax compliance. I guess FATCA started a monster: the Global Standard. Sorry, Old World.

http://www.kpmg.com/lu/en/issuesandinsights/articlespublications/pages/luxembourgtaxnews-issue2014-04.aspx