PGCE but no home experience.

[jollypop]

Hi,

I'll be finishing up my PGCE in Primary Education this June in the UK. I'm thinking of heading to Thailand for a year before going back and doing my NQT year. I also have a TEFL certificate and a CELTA with over a year of TEFL teaching experience in Thailand.

Have I any chance of securing a decent international school position? I would ideally like to be earning about 60-70 thousand bath per month.

Thoughts?

Edited January 5, 2015 by jollypop

[SlyAnimal]

Most international school job advertisements I've seen, ask for x years experience teaching + be familiar with the UK/USA curriculum + a teaching licence in your home country.

I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but in NZ, to get a teachers licence, after you finish a BEdu or DipTeach, you have to spend 2 years teaching (while on a waiver) in order to get a full licence.

(Thus you would need more experience teaching in the UK).

But I don't regularly look at teaching positions at international schools, so there are likely others with differing requirements (The ones I look at, are usually just the ones which say "Over 100,000 THB per month, as I'm curious about what I'd need to get a job there, but they might have higher requirements than the other ones).

[aidenai]

Have I any chance of securing a decent international school position?

Nope.

[jollypop]

Quote

Have I any chance of securing a decent international school position?

Nope.

*

*

*

Fair enough. Care to elaborate?

[draftvader]

From my wife's (English) experience in teaching in International schools in Thailand I have observed different "tiers". The top tier schools can ask for the best experienced teachers as schools such as ISB, Harrow, NIST, KIS, etc pay some of the highest wages in the world (we know plenty of ISB teachers as my wife teaches their toddlers and they are earning package values over B200,000/month (starting at B120,000+included housing or allowance+insurance+flights+education for 2 children, etc)). The 2nd tier schools pay less and are a little more flexible with their requirements (B50,000-70,000/month+small housing allowance+insurance+50% flights+education for 2 children, etc). These schools tend to be smaller (100-200 pupils). I know of schools taking teachers straight out of their teacher training for 2 year contracts. Though you will be paid less you will still be able to enjoy a good lifestyle on the wage. Then there are the 3rd tier schools that are really small and just trying to get going. They'll employ nearly anyone and pay marginally more than a Thai private school.

Bear in mind that the top tier will employ experienced people out of reputable tier 2 schools or with experience from their home countries but getting a job without good experience in a reputable school is nearly impossible. All our ISB, KIS, NIST friends have impressive CVs.

[DaBloodyMess]

I did the Australian equivalent of the PGCE in Dec 2011 and came out to Thailand with no experience straight away.

I am now in my 3rd academic year as a teacher at an international school. To be honest, I was quite lucky. Many teachers at my school came to Thailand with the same idea and ended up as ESL teachers for a year or two before moving into an international school position. The upside of is that with a Western teaching qualification, at least you would be able to get a job at the better paid Thai schools if that is the path you end up on.

The above poster is correct that there are 'tiers' of school. My school is what would be considered a tier 2. I am currently in the process of interviewing for new schools. Experience is the key and now that I have it it will be possibly be able to transition to a better school. If not a tier 1, then at least a better tier 2. Basically, you don't get a job at somewhere like NIST overnight - it is all about building up that experience.

Good luck and I will try to monitor this thread if you have any more questions... or just message me.

[simon43]

Is it the salary or the 'tier' of the school that drives you? Is the country of work important?

When I worked in Yangon as a Homeroom teacher (no PGCE, minimal teaching qualifications), I was earning 80,000 baht tax free, plus unlimited overtime to teach adults and kids at the weekend and in the evening. I usually took home over $4,000 USD per month, (because I worked 7 days a week - little else to do in Yangon at the time).

[zeichen]

"I also have a TEFL certificate and a CELTA with over a year of TEFL teaching experience in Thailand."

Do you think that your EFL experience will help you teach actual subjects? Unless you have at least a 6 month practicum Not many schools will put you on the top of their list.

Will you find a job? YEs, will it be the best paid at the best school? Not likely. International schools here are very picky.

There is always the possibility that a school will be needy the day you go in.

Try search associates. They are a major recruiter for international schools. Also go to the yearly international school fairs.

[jollypop]

"I also have a TEFL certificate and a CELTA with over a year of TEFL teaching experience in Thailand."

Do you think that your EFL experience will help you teach actual subjects? Unless you have at least a 6 month practicum Not many schools will put you on the top of their list.

Will you find a job? YEs, will it be the best paid at the best school? Not likely. International schools here are very picky.

There is always the possibility that a school will be needy the day you go in.

Try search associates. They are a major recruiter for international schools. Also go to the yearly international school fairs.

No I didn't think EFL experience would help me teach a maths lesson, for example. Actually I wasn't asking whether my EFL teaching would help me teach anything. I was more curious whether those credentials on top of a PGCE would help at all in securing a teaching job outside of EFL in a primary school in Thailand. I didn't think it would help for the better schools to be honest. Just curious as to the kind of options I would have if I decided to take a year in Thailand rather then do my NQT year straight away. I'll definitely have a look at Associates. Thanks for that.

Thank you for all the replies, I've decided that I will stay in the UK and gain my NQT year at least. There's no point waiting another year only to get a marginally higher salary than English teaching. Another cold wet Winter in Blighty!

[GanDoonToonPet]

Don't discount the high salaried Bangkok EPs. I'm on a basic salary of 55k but I get a 20k increment for teaching G10-G12 classes, 5k for being a maths / science teacher & 500B per homework period, which is within the contractual hours. Also we are allowed to use the school facilities, free of charge, to teach private lessons for 500B per hour per student. If you can get 3+ students it's worth 10k+.

Also there are a lot of cancellations due to extra curricula activities, ceremonies & also rehearsals for said activities which can take up to 3 times the time of the activities themselves. I'm also free to teach the students what I think is relevant (as opposed to the vague, piss poor Thai curriculum) as the admin don't care a hoot about what happens in the classroom.

I wouldn't trade my current job for a 2nd tier international, such as St Stevens, for a minimal salary increase, 30 contact hours with no cancellations, having to teach to a rigid curriculum & I've heard the extra-curricula activities & pastoral care take up all your free time; you'd better love teaching.

[SheungWan]

"I also have a TEFL certificate and a CELTA with over a year of TEFL teaching experience in Thailand."

Do you think that your EFL experience will help you teach actual subjects? Unless you have at least a 6 month practicum Not many schools will put you on the top of their list.

Will you find a job? YEs, will it be the best paid at the best school? Not likely. International schools here are very picky.

There is always the possibility that a school will be needy the day you go in.

Try search associates. They are a major recruiter for international schools. Also go to the yearly international school fairs.

No I didn't think EFL experience would help me teach a maths lesson, for example. Actually I wasn't asking whether my EFL teaching would help me teach anything. I was more curious whether those credentials on top of a PGCE would help at all in securing a teaching job outside of EFL in a primary school in Thailand. I didn't think it would help for the better schools to be honest. Just curious as to the kind of options I would have if I decided to take a year in Thailand rather then do my NQT year straight away. I'll definitely have a look at Associates. Thanks for that.

Thank you for all the replies, I've decided that I will stay in the UK and gain my NQT year at least. There's no point waiting another year only to get a marginally higher salary than English teaching. Another cold wet Winter in Blighty!

...and that is the correct decision. Since you are wanting to go about things the right way, you might want to consider developing your teaching career afterwards in say Singapore or even HK rather then being a filler in Thailand. Let Thailand wait.

[culicine]

I did the Australian equivalent of the PGCE in Dec 2011 and came out to Thailand with no experience straight away.

I am now in my 3rd academic year as a teacher at an international school. To be honest, I was quite lucky. Many teachers at my school came to Thailand with the same idea and ended up as ESL teachers for a year or two before moving into an international school position. The upside of is that with a Western teaching qualification, at least you would be able to get a job at the better paid Thai schools if that is the path you end up on.

The above poster is correct that there are 'tiers' of school. My school is what would be considered a tier 2. I am currently in the process of interviewing for new schools. Experience is the key and now that I have it it will be possibly be able to transition to a better school. If not a tier 1, then at least a better tier 2. Basically, you don't get a job at somewhere like NIST overnight - it is all about building up that experience.

Good luck and I will try to monitor this thread if you have any more questions... or just message me.

I did something similar, but did my practicum in Thailand, as I'm teaching in my concentration area. After I finished, I applied to several International schools (some were not even top tier), and didn't get one interview. As it is, my salary is close to tier 2 anyway, so thereafter, I did not bother again to apply to those schools.

Some non-international schools do pay well, such as Assumption and MUIDS (at Mahidol). It' may be worth looking at those schools. Assumption EP pays 75K + 15K housing allowance. I think the OP would have a fair chance at those kinds of schools.

[lostinisaan]

Have I any chance of securing a decent international school position?

I'm afraid to say nope.

[TimBKK]

Sorry, what is an EP school?

Don't discount the high salaried Bangkok EPs. I'm on a basic salary of 55k but I get a 20k increment for teaching G10-G12 classes, 5k for being a maths / science teacher & 500B per homework period, which is within the contractual hours. Also we are allowed to use the school facilities, free of charge, to teach private lessons for 500B per hour per student. If you can get 3+ students it's worth 10k+.

Also there are a lot of cancellations due to extra curricula activities, ceremonies & also rehearsals for said activities which can take up to 3 times the time of the activities themselves. I'm also free to teach the students what I think is relevant (as opposed to the vague, piss poor Thai curriculum) as the admin don't care a hoot about what happens in the classroom.

I wouldn't trade my current job for a 2nd tier international, such as St Stevens, for a minimal salary increase, 30 contact hours with no cancellations, having to teach to a rigid curriculum & I've heard the extra-curricula activities & pastoral care take up all your free time; you'd better love teaching.

[SlyAnimal]

EP = English Program

Where basically the parents pay some extra money to put their kids into classes where the students are taught a lot of their subjects in English, instead of Thai.

There are a lot of schools which also have Bi-lingual programs, where some subjects (usually just maths/science, but sometimes others as well), are taught in both English and Thai (In theory, the same content 2x, once in Thai, and then again in Thai).

There are also gifted programs, which are basically just privelaged classes for the rich kids, which receive all of the additional benefits of the EP/Bilingual programs, but still study in Thai (So they get extra school trips, air-con in their classrooms, get selected for special activities/competitions more often and are in a class full of other rich kids, most of whom will be doing additional tutoring etc outside of school).

[lostinisaan]

EP = English Program

Where basically the parents pay some extra money to put their kids into classes where the students are taught a lot of their subjects in English, instead of Thai.

There are a lot of schools which also have Bi-lingual programs, where some subjects (usually just maths/science, but sometimes others as well), are taught in both English and Thai (In theory, the same content 2x, once in Thai, and then again in Thai).

There are also gifted programs, which are basically just privelaged classes for the rich kids, which receive all of the additional benefits of the EP/Bilingual programs, but still study in Thai (So they get extra school trips, air-con in their classrooms, get selected for special activities/competitions more often and are in a class full of other rich kids, most of whom will be doing additional tutoring etc outside of school).

Not too long ago, bilingual programs were called “Mini English Programs”, while some ordinary –one hour of English per week, taught by a foreigner- were called EP.

I’ve never seen such a school, you’ve mentioned in your first sentence, “ a lot of their subjects in English, instead of Thai?” Where/when do they learn Thai then?

An EP program is usually a bilingual program where students learn science, math, health, computer in English and sometimes even physical education.

It’s true that the subjects taught in English should run together with the Thai curriculum, but reality always differs to theory. You’ll find plenty of students at secondary school EP where 10^th graders can’t even answer simple questions and not able to have a simple conversation with you.

We started such an EP last May at a tiny Anuban and it’s really not an easy job to do, as the grade one kids had never learned English before.

That will hopefully approve this May, because the Anuban II kids, who’ll be in grade one by then are "studying" some basic English now.

Sad is that their teacher’s not very proficient in English, with almost no teaching experience. Cheap labor from SEA, as usual do they not understand the importance of a good teacher at Kindergarten level.

The guy who's "teaching" them now only let's them repeat words and sentences, using a very poor pronunciation. Arrai Wa???

I have to admit that this is the most difficult job I ever had in my life, because I’m not only in for the money, love teaching kids lot and I finally made a commitment, by signing my contract.

It's "lovely" to see many kids being able to respond in English and their smiles are worth more than the money they give me as a salary.....

Edited January 22, 2015 by lostinisaan

[SlyAnimal]

I’ve never seen such a school, you’ve mentioned in your first sentence, “ a lot of their subjects in English, instead of Thai?” Where/when do they learn Thai then?

e.g. "A lot of their subjects" as in science, maths, health, computer science and English, as well as often having a foreign homeroom teacher, so around 10-16h per week taught by foreign teachers (Thus "a lot" of their subjects in English), and being taught in English instead of Thai, as in it doesn't necessarily line up with what's in the Thai curriculium for those subjects (Or indeed, particularly with health/computer science, they might not even have duplicate subjects in Thai).