Driving in Thailand is NOT so bad

[richard_smith237]

The discussion has taken to pragmatism and predictability... and I agree... Many of the Drivers over here are predictable...

i.e.

If a car is turning left, the driver will drift to the right before swinging left...

Even without indicators its easy to predict the direction a car wishes to turn by their road positioning...

Its easy to spot who's on their phone while driving...

The car in front will go through the lights on Amber...

The car behind may hit you if you stop on Amber...

When making a turn into a blind Soi / Road, its highly probable that there will be another vehicle (usually a bike) coming at you on the wrong side of the road...

A Bus, Lorry or Van will pull out in front of you...

No one will let you pull out in front of them unless you are more assertive...

The car reversing out blindly in front of you will will hit you unless you 'pap' your horn...

The very slow beaten up old pickup in the outside lane will make a U turn at some point in the next 3 kms...

[BradinAsia]

Op, commute in Chiang Mai then come back and tell me how not so bad the driving is. Driving is only pleasant here when there are no other road users on your stretch. Eyes need to be absolutely peeled every second because the propensity for someone to do something completely nuts is ever-present. Done at least 150,000 miles in Thailand in all areas.

I live in Chiang Mai and the only significant traffic problem I see is that it's a lot heavier than it used to be.

As far as the drivers here, they are generally more sensible and courteous than most places I've lived.

Driving here (in Chiang Mai, not Bangkok) is a piece of cake compared to the Philippines. And compared

to the U.S., I would estimate that road rage is about 97.6% less.

The nastiest drivers I've seen in Chiang Mai are farang. They (especially my American countrymen) have

this etched-in-stone legal idea about right-of-way -- and they are obsessed with imposing their nonsense

alien ideas on the unsuspecting locals, including yours truly.

By the way, to me, the TV expression TIT most often means more sensible than elsewhere (farangland).

As the OP so eloquently expressed, "Thais are much more pragmatic." They have learned to get from A

to B with the least amount of risk and hassle. And, in Chiang Mai (unlike the U.S.) we don't get harassed

by the police for every minor benign infraction (or perceived infraction) of traffic laws. I much prefer the

BIB over the police in the U.S. with their overly aggressive behavior and I-am-next-to-God attitude.

That's the way I see traffic here in Chiang Mai. The experience of others may vary, especially when you

factor in all the impractical excess baggage of alien ideas that many farang have brought with them.

I really hate driving in C M because there are just too many cars for the infrastructure, roads are far too narrow and blocked with all sorts of things, parking is impossible and the road signage is a joke. My nephew goes to university and trying to take the car to his flat is a nightmare.

Going north though, is now OK as I've discovered the bypass routes and don't have to go through C M.

Few modern cities in the world have a perfect traffic situation all the time. Most major cities

in the U.S. have big traffic problems at times. So it's a matter of comparing Chiang Mai traffic

with that of other cities.

In my experience, traffic in Bangkok is 683% worse than Chiang Mai. In the far northeast

Nakhon Phanom has virtually no traffic jams. Of course, neither does the city have much of

anything else.

Also, you say the roads are too narrow. Of course, some roads are. Most cities have narrow

streets and wide streets. Evidently, that's how it works. In Chiang Mai, most of the main roads

and the ring roads are not narrow. If you venture to drive inside the old city, you will discover

that narrow has a whole new meaning -- like barely wide enough for one car.

I get the impression that you are new to driving in Chiang Mai. It takes at least a year or two to

learn one's way around this city. Isn't that true of most cities?

Maybe a lot of what you are evaluating is your familiarity with the city rather than the city itself.

Yesterday, I got stuck in very slow traffic for about an hour for the trip back home that usually

takes 10-15 minutes. What I learn from such instances are (1) what are the peak hours to avoid,

if possible and (2) which roads have the least congestion.

I have noticed that Chiang Mai traffic has become noticeably heavier in the last few years. It

seems that the 500,000 vehicles registered in change Mai may now be a million...

Edited January 9, 2015 by BradinAsia

[Berkshire]

You could not be more wrong!

I concur. There is no "order" to Thai driving. They will even do a U turn where it is banned ( by a sign ) right beside a cop on traffic duty, and he lets them!!!!!!!!!!

"There is no "order" to Thai driving."

You have come right to the essence of the argument. This is the beauty of it. This is what I love. This is what creates the great divide between the loves and the hates in this thread.

​Order is the antipathy of freedom. Freedom always comes at a price, and there are many unwilling to pay it. To each his own. Carry on.

Yes, the great divide. I can see how there's a bunch of us that have no problem at all driving in Thailand, maybe even preferring it to driving in the west. And then there's the persistent wusses who just can't handle it. Have to have things the way it was back home. Will never happen, of course, so they keep barking at the moon. Makes me wonder how these people live. Constantly complaining, yet, never, ever, able to change anything. Must suck to be them.

[IMHO]

I have just two words to say: man up

[Keesters]

The discussion has taken to pragmatism and predictability... and I agree... Many of the Drivers over here are predictable...

i.e.

If a car is turning left, the driver will drift to the right before swinging left...

Even without indicators its easy to predict the direction a car wishes to turn by their road positioning...

Its easy to spot who's on their phone while driving...

The car in front will go through the lights on Amber...

The car behind may hit you if you stop on Amber...

When making a turn into a blind Soi / Road, its highly probable that there will be another vehicle (usually a bike) coming at you on the wrong side of the road...

A Bus, Lorry or Van will pull out in front of you...

No one will let you pull out in front of them unless you are more assertive...

The car reversing out blindly in front of you will will hit you unless you 'pap' your horn...

The very slow beaten up old pickup in the outside lane will make a U turn at some point in the next 3 kms...

And every car will make a million lane changes per 100km.

And there shall be no greater than 3mtrs between you and the vehicle in front or behind.

Overtake a motorcycle just before making a left turn ensuring the motorcycle has to apply emergency braking.

Etc........

Edited January 9, 2015 by Keesters

[thaibeachlovers]

The dangers and risks of driving in Thailand are greater than back in the UK - I don't think there is any argument against that.

However, being more dangerous shouldn't prevent careful people from driving in Thailand, although it does prevent me from riding (a motorbike) - As the Op suggests, Driving in Thailand is not so bad.... I'll add a caveat - When using careful consideration and observation.

With an understanding that the Driving Law in Thailand is not followed so merely as its treated as a general guideline which invariably is not understood or followed. The key to driving safely in Thailand is observation and the understanding that anything can happen.

I'll also add that installation of a DashCam could at some point protect you from taking the blame when something unavoidable happens on the road.

Another Point: I don't know any British people who have been involved in a Drunk Driving related accident, I don't know any Thai's who haven't.....

But for the most part I don't have any serious issues with driving in Thailand... I do however worry about the lorries etc with unsecured heavy loads, I worry about the MiniVans driving like idiots... For the most part the general motorist is quite safe (given the exception of the 2% of idiots who think they are in a race).

The key to driving safely in Thailand is observation and the understanding that anything can happen.

understanding that anything can happen being the operative words. How would you apologists for Thai drivers deal with this scenario that happened to me?

Driving up a hill in the ( legal for me ) passing lane overtaking a truck, when a Thai guy comes around a blind corner IN MY LANE. Only the fact that I had overtaken the truck allowed me to avoid a head on collision ( he had a truck on his left ). Blatent disregard for any common sense, never mind the road rules.

I have many such incidents from driving in Thailand.

[ExPratt]

Not as bad as China , probably similar to Malaysia. Malaysia I find the roads are not too bad people can just be a bit dozy. Here I think the roads are a death trap , that U-turn on the freeway or any major road is ridiculous

[Keesters]

You could not be more wrong!

I concur. There is no "order" to Thai driving. They will even do a U turn where it is banned ( by a sign ) right beside a cop on traffic duty, and he lets them!!!!!!!!!!

"There is no "order" to Thai driving."

You have come right to the essence of the argument. This is the beauty of it. This is what I love. This is what creates the great divide between the loves and the hates in this thread.

​Order is the antipathy of freedom. Freedom always comes at a price, and there are many unwilling to pay it. To each his own. Carry on.

Yes, the great divide. I can see how there's a bunch of us that have no problem at all driving in Thailand, maybe even preferring it to driving in the west. And then there's the persistent wusses who just can't handle it. Have to have things the way it was back home. Will never happen, of course, so they keep barking at the moon. Makes me wonder how these people live. Constantly complaining, yet, never, ever, able to change anything. Must suck to be them.

And you would have it all remain the same with Thais killing Thais (the majority of fatal accidents I'd guess only involve Thais) in road accidents that with some improvement in driving standards could be vastly reduced. Thank you for caring very little about the people in the country you have adopted as home.

Must suck to be you.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Keesters

[Berkshire]

I concur. There is no "order" to Thai driving. They will even do a U turn where it is banned ( by a sign ) right beside a cop on traffic duty, and he lets them!!!!!!!!!!

"There is no "order" to Thai driving."

You have come right to the essence of the argument. This is the beauty of it. This is what I love. This is what creates the great divide between the loves and the hates in this thread.

​Order is the antipathy of freedom. Freedom always comes at a price, and there are many unwilling to pay it. To each his own. Carry on.

Yes, the great divide. I can see how there's a bunch of us that have no problem at all driving in Thailand, maybe even preferring it to driving in the west. And then there's the persistent wusses who just can't handle it. Have to have things the way it was back home. Will never happen, of course, so they keep barking at the moon. Makes me wonder how these people live. Constantly complaining, yet, never, ever, able to change anything. Must suck to be them.

And you would have it all remain the same with Thais killing Thais (the majority of fatal accidents I'd guess only involve Thais) in road accidents that with some improvement in driving standards could be vastly reduced. Thank you for caring very little about the people in the country you have adopted as home.

Must suck to be you.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that your constant, high-pitched whining/whinging on an all-English language forum, is going to change anything? As well as the constant attacks on all Thais? Last question, are you delusional?

There's a difference between true constructive criticism (to the proper audience) vs. vile, bitter, and bigoted attacks on the people of this country. 99% of the comments on threads such as this are of the latter category. So don't even try to sound like you care about the health and safety of the people of Thailand. It's clear that you don't.

[Keesters]

I concur. There is no "order" to Thai driving. They will even do a U turn where it is banned ( by a sign ) right beside a cop on traffic duty, and he lets them!!!!!!!!!!

"There is no "order" to Thai driving."

You have come right to the essence of the argument. This is the beauty of it. This is what I love. This is what creates the great divide between the loves and the hates in this thread.

​Order is the antipathy of freedom. Freedom always comes at a price, and there are many unwilling to pay it. To each his own. Carry on.

Yes, the great divide. I can see how there's a bunch of us that have no problem at all driving in Thailand, maybe even preferring it to driving in the west. And then there's the persistent wusses who just can't handle it. Have to have things the way it was back home. Will never happen, of course, so they keep barking at the moon. Makes me wonder how these people live. Constantly complaining, yet, never, ever, able to change anything. Must suck to be them.

And you would have it all remain the same with Thais killing Thais (the majority of fatal accidents I'd guess only involve Thais) in road accidents that with some improvement in driving standards could be vastly reduced. Thank you for caring very little about the people in the country you have adopted as home.

Must suck to be you.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that your constant, high-pitched whining/whinging on an all-English language forum, is going to change anything? As well as the constant attacks on all Thais? Last question, are you delusional?

There's a difference between true constructive criticism (to the proper audience) vs. vile, bitter, and bigoted attacks on the people of this country. 99% of the comments on threads such as this are of the latter category. So don't even try to sound like you care about the health and safety of the people of Thailand. It's clear that you don't.

Now you are just being offensive.

I truly care about the people of this country having raised my family here. I care far more than you seem to.

[thaibeachlovers]

"There is no "order" to Thai driving."

You have come right to the essence of the argument. This is the beauty of it. This is what I love. This is what creates the great divide between the loves and the hates in this thread.

​Order is the antipathy of freedom. Freedom always comes at a price, and there are many unwilling to pay it. To each his own. Carry on.

Yes, the great divide. I can see how there's a bunch of us that have no problem at all driving in Thailand, maybe even preferring it to driving in the west. And then there's the persistent wusses who just can't handle it. Have to have things the way it was back home. Will never happen, of course, so they keep barking at the moon. Makes me wonder how these people live. Constantly complaining, yet, never, ever, able to change anything. Must suck to be them.

And you would have it all remain the same with Thais killing Thais (the majority of fatal accidents I'd guess only involve Thais) in road accidents that with some improvement in driving standards could be vastly reduced. Thank you for caring very little about the people in the country you have adopted as home.

Must suck to be you.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that your constant, high-pitched whining/whinging on an all-English language forum, is going to change anything? As well as the constant attacks on all Thais? Last question, are you delusional?

There's a difference between true constructive criticism (to the proper audience) vs. vile, bitter, and bigoted attacks on the people of this country. 99% of the comments on threads such as this are of the latter category. So don't even try to sound like you care about the health and safety of the people of Thailand. It's clear that you don't.

While some of us vent about things we can't change, I reckon we care more about the health and safety of ordinary Thais than the Thais that could do something about it. ie the Thai police don't enforce common sense road rules- do they care?, City councils won't build pavements, or keep pavements clear to use- do they care? The people that build roads make bad ones- do they care? Etc.

[Tomtomtom69]

The discussion has taken to pragmatism and predictability... and I agree... Many of the Drivers over here are predictable...

i.e.

If a car is turning left, the driver will drift to the right before swinging left...

Even without indicators its easy to predict the direction a car wishes to turn by their road positioning...

Its easy to spot who's on their phone while driving...

The car in front will go through the lights on Amber...

The car behind may hit you if you stop on Amber...

When making a turn into a blind Soi / Road, its highly probable that there will be another vehicle (usually a bike) coming at you on the wrong side of the road...

A Bus, Lorry or Van will pull out in front of you...

No one will let you pull out in front of them unless you are more assertive...

The car reversing out blindly in front of you will will hit you unless you 'pap' your horn...

The very slow beaten up old pickup in the outside lane will make a U turn at some point in the next 3 kms...

Yeah but that's what makes driving here so frustrating, at times at least.

Most of the time, 99+% of the time I'm able to cope, calmly without any problems.

But then out of the blue something aggravates me, usually a comment from a Thai spouse or friend about the police - how I should be careful, blah blah blah.

Well sorry to burst their bubble but the Thai police are nothing to be concerned about. They are clowns. Most Thais have a complete disrespect for the police. I don't - I actually wish them well, but I wish they would enforce the law more because as it stands they are almost completely useless.

That's why effectively there are no speed limits in Thailand, there are only weak drink driving laws etc. Yesterday I told my Thai companions with me that speeding is not a crime in Thailand because it isn't. There's like only one fixed speed camera in the whole country, located on the Bangkok-Chonburi motorway, which doesn't even work most of the time and the other speed radars employed by the police are so rarely used that one should not express even the slightest concern with getting stopped.

Yesterday I found myself with some idiots in the right lane of the eastern outer ring road crawling along at 90km/h in the fast lane (on a 120km/h road), but there was no traffic jam, the middle two lanes were half empty. Obviously they haven't been taught that driving too SLOWLY on a high speed road is more dangerous than keeping up with high speed traffic flow.

I got frustrated, flashed my lights a bit as I tailgated one guy who didn't care so I had to go around and overtake on the left to pass and in the process went well over 120, which upset my better half a little bit.

OK so I shouldn't be talking up road safety too much if I too didn't really do the right thing either, but I think we can all relate to having a bit of a "bad Thailand driving day".

The problem is that there is such an extreme contrast between driving in Thailand, a land with effectively no traffic laws and say Australia/NZ which take it to the extreme opposite, meaning that if you drive in one you'll be frustrated with poor driving standards, driving too fast on urban roads and country highways but too SLOWLY on expressways, driving against the flow of traffic, drink driving and just utter disregard for the law but on the other hand, if you drive in one of the other two, even driving just a few km/h over the speed limit will get you booked with a massive fine.

There's just no sense to these extreme polar opposites in driving styles and traffic rules enforcement.

Australia/NZ should ease up on the speeding obsession. It's just revenue raising anyway - put your money to better use by building better roads particularly in NZ which barely has any expressways or multi-lane roads outside of the cities. Thailand by contrast has multi-lane roads throughout the country. Maybe if Australia could restore it's relations with the Thai government after all the bad mouthing against the coup it could come in and advise about how to improve road safety using technology like average speed safety cameras (but give us a bit of a break, like say 10-15km/h buffer over the speed limit before we get booked and also, only implement them on high speed roads such as expressways and motorways) and of course no more u-turn bays on high speed roads.

Anyway, in all likelihood nothing much will change and we'll continue to get frustrated. Sure, we are already not surprised about the standards of driving here, but I'd like to see some changes that will make driving safer here. On the other hand the police over in Aus/NZ have already taken what little fun remained out of driving there away from us.

Maybe I should try to find a place with good road infrastructure and relatively OK drivers and sufficient enforcement of road rules to make driving relatively safe, but without the heavy handedness of Aus/NZ or the total carefree nature of Thailand. Any suggestions? Malaysia, Poland perhaps (I've driven in both countries BTW, but a few years ago now)? Any others?

Edited January 11, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[seedy]

Just getting back from a few days at the beach.

Chiang Mai to Pattaya to Trat and south to the border. Back up thru Ubon Ratchathani to Khon Kaen. Phitsanalok tomorrow, then home.

All in all, a good trip. Sure, some ignorant idiots but on the whole courteous and safe driving by 99% of the people I encountered.

I submit that if you have problems driving here, look in the mirror. Therein lies the answer.

Still can't drive here - stay off the roads.

[shiroboi]

I remember the first time I came to Thailand, I had culture shock about the roads. I think to anybody who visits here who is used to law and order, the roads can seem a quite shocking place.

Tomorrow, I will have been living in LOS for 2 years now. Driving here is a secondary thought now. What a difference a year or two makes. It's not completely systemless. It may be a broken system but everyone here is used to how the broken system works. If you understand the rules and drive defensively, you'll most likely be fine. Most car drivers I see, save for a few reckless speeders or drunks, drive fine for the most part. But so many times I see motorcyclists try to U-turn around cars making a right hand turn. The people who should be the most careful are the most reckless. I'd say that the road deaths ARE badly skewed by the number of motorcyclists here. Great post OP!

[thaibeachlovers]

The discussion has taken to pragmatism and predictability... and I agree... Many of the Drivers over here are predictable...

i.e.

If a car is turning left, the driver will drift to the right before swinging left...

Even without indicators its easy to predict the direction a car wishes to turn by their road positioning...

Its easy to spot who's on their phone while driving...

The car in front will go through the lights on Amber...

The car behind may hit you if you stop on Amber...

When making a turn into a blind Soi / Road, its highly probable that there will be another vehicle (usually a bike) coming at you on the wrong side of the road...

A Bus, Lorry or Van will pull out in front of you...

No one will let you pull out in front of them unless you are more assertive...

The car reversing out blindly in front of you will will hit you unless you 'pap' your horn...

The very slow beaten up old pickup in the outside lane will make a U turn at some point in the next 3 kms...

Yeah but that's what makes driving here so frustrating, at times at least.

Most of the time, 99+% of the time I'm able to cope, calmly without any problems.

But then out of the blue something aggravates me, usually a comment from a Thai spouse or friend about the police - how I should be careful, blah blah blah.

Well sorry to burst their bubble but the Thai police are nothing to be concerned about. They are clowns. Most Thais have a complete disrespect for the police. I don't - I actually wish them well, but I wish they would enforce the law more because as it stands they are almost completely useless.

That's why effectively there are no speed limits in Thailand, there are only weak drink driving laws etc. Yesterday I told my Thai companions with me that speeding is not a crime in Thailand because it isn't. There's like only one fixed speed camera in the whole country, located on the Bangkok-Chonburi motorway, which doesn't even work most of the time and the other speed radars employed by the police are so rarely used that one should not express even the slightest concern with getting stopped.

Yesterday I found myself with some idiots in the right lane of the eastern outer ring road crawling along at 90km/h in the fast lane (on a 120km/h road), but there was no traffic jam, the middle two lanes were half empty. Obviously they haven't been taught that driving too SLOWLY on a high speed road is more dangerous than keeping up with high speed traffic flow.

I got frustrated, flashed my lights a bit as I tailgated one guy who didn't care so I had to go around and overtake on the left to pass and in the process went well over 120, which upset my better half a little bit.

OK so I shouldn't be talking up road safety too much if I too didn't really do the right thing either, but I think we can all relate to having a bit of a "bad Thailand driving day".

The problem is that there is such an extreme contrast between driving in Thailand, a land with effectively no traffic laws and say Australia/NZ which take it to the extreme opposite, meaning that if you drive in one you'll be frustrated with poor driving standards, driving too fast on urban roads and country highways but too SLOWLY on expressways, driving against the flow of traffic, drink driving and just utter disregard for the law but on the other hand, if you drive in one of the other two, even driving just a few km/h over the speed limit will get you booked with a massive fine.

There's just no sense to these extreme polar opposites in driving styles and traffic rules enforcement.

Australia/NZ should ease up on the speeding obsession. It's just revenue raising anyway - put your money to better use by building better roads particularly in NZ which barely has any expressways or multi-lane roads outside of the cities. Thailand by contrast has multi-lane roads throughout the country. Maybe if Australia could restore it's relations with the Thai government after all the bad mouthing against the coup it could come in and advise about how to improve road safety using technology like average speed safety cameras (but give us a bit of a break, like say 10-15km/h buffer over the speed limit before we get booked and also, only implement them on high speed roads such as expressways and motorways) and of course no more u-turn bays on high speed roads.

Anyway, in all likelihood nothing much will change and we'll continue to get frustrated. Sure, we are already not surprised about the standards of driving here, but I'd like to see some changes that will make driving safer here. On the other hand the police over in Aus/NZ have already taken what little fun remained out of driving there away from us.

Maybe I should try to find a place with good road infrastructure and relatively OK drivers and sufficient enforcement of road rules to make driving relatively safe, but without the heavy handedness of Aus/NZ or the total carefree nature of Thailand. Any suggestions? Malaysia, Poland perhaps (I've driven in both countries BTW, but a few years ago now)? Any others?

You mention heavy and irrational ( money making ) speed enforcement in NZ, which is true, but it does not make for good drivers. In my experience, NZ drivers out of the city are very poorly skilled, they are terrible tailgaters, and routinely exceed the speed limit. They get away with that because outside the cities, there is ZERO enforcement- I only see a cop responding to an accident. Trucks always go too fast, and are too large for the roads ( Macs and Kenworths ), so they destroy them. I have NEVER seen a truck pulled up for speeding, but they ALL do.

However, NZ has too small a population to pay for better roads, but why oh why does it seem like the entire population of NZ is driving on the same road as I?

I agree, driving in NZ is no fun at all now.

[Keesters]

I'd say that the road deaths ARE badly skewed by the number of motorcyclists here.

Not so sure they are. 4 wheel and over vehicles tend to travel far greater distances per year than motorcycles. The further the distance travelled the more likely you are to have an accident. Motorcycles also use high speed highways far less than 4+ wheel vehicles. I regularly travel the 15km Pattaya-Ban Amphur route and would be outnumbered by cars 20:1. If there was a way to do it without using the highway I would. Mad car drivers, speeding, changing lanes continually, jumping the lights, pushing me over into the dangerous gravel road edge. They should all have their vehicles taken from them.

[WheresWaldo]

No, that graph is NOT the Thai drivers. It's a graph of the knowledge base of all the people on this forum that whine about Thai drivers.

[shiroboi]

I'd say that the road deaths ARE badly skewed by the number of motorcyclists here.

Not so sure they are. 4 wheel and over vehicles tend to travel far greater distances per year than motorcycles. The further the distance travelled the more likely you are to have an accident. Motorcycles also use high speed highways far less than 4+ wheel vehicles. I regularly travel the 15km Pattaya-Ban Amphur route and would be outnumbered by cars 20:1. If there was a way to do it without using the highway I would. Mad car drivers, speeding, changing lanes continually, jumping the lights, pushing me over into the dangerous gravel road edge. They should all have their vehicles taken from them.

See, that's my point. Cars passing you constantly. These underpowered 125cc motorcycles and scooters often have difficulty keeping up with the flow of traffic, thus becoming obstructions. In the last 2 months I've personally witnessed 3 motorcycle accidents, none of which were the car's fault. Trust me, there's plenty of bad car drivers but it's easy to see why there are so many motorcycle deaths here. If a car has an accident, survival rate is high. If a Motorcycle has an accident, survival rate is low. More motorcycles = more deaths. There's easily 100x more motorcycles here per square km than there is in the US.

[Keesters]

I'd say that the road deaths ARE badly skewed by the number of motorcyclists here.

Not so sure they are. 4 wheel and over vehicles tend to travel far greater distances per year than motorcycles. The further the distance travelled the more likely you are to have an accident. Motorcycles also use high speed highways far less than 4+ wheel vehicles. I regularly travel the 15km Pattaya-Ban Amphur route and would be outnumbered by cars 20:1. If there was a way to do it without using the highway I would. Mad car drivers, speeding, changing lanes continually, jumping the lights, pushing me over into the dangerous gravel road edge. They should all have their vehicles taken from them.

See, that's my point. Cars passing you constantly. These underpowered 125cc motorcycles and scooters often have difficulty keeping up with the flow of traffic, thus becoming obstructions. In the last 2 months I've personally witnessed 3 motorcycle accidents, none of which were the car's fault. Trust me, there's plenty of bad car drivers but it's easy to see why there are so many motorcycle deaths here. If a car has an accident, survival rate is high. If a Motorcycle has an accident, survival rate is low. More motorcycles = more deaths. There's easily 100x more motorcycles here per square km than there is in the US.

But a motorcycle, bicycle or pedestrian travelling at the edge of the road is hardly obstructing any cars progress.

I have no need to keep up with the flow just as there is no need for a car to push me off the road. I constantly see cars involved in accidents with cars and then a motorcycle that has got caught up in the mess. Yes, an accident on a motorcycle often means more serious injuries than somebody in a car but that does not give a car the right to drive as if the motorcycle wasn't there. Motor cyclists have the same rights to the road as a car and in Thailand where there are lots of motorcyclists cars need to take more care instead of the "I'm richer/bigger/more important" point of view. Motorcycles too are more energy & space efficient. If everybody drove cars there would be little space on the roads and far less fuel to put in them. Car owners should be thankful to motorcyclists not consider them a menace.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Keesters

[IMHO]

Motorcycles too are more energy & space efficient. If everybody drove cars there would be little space on the roads and far less fuel to put in them.

BS manufacturer claims aside, most scooters really only get around 20-30km/l, so not as good FE as one might think.... An eco-car with 3 passengers is using less fuel per person than any scooter.

[Keesters]

Motorcycles too are more energy & space efficient. If everybody drove cars there would be little space on the roads and far less fuel to put in them.

BS manufacturer claims aside, most scooters really only get around 20-30km/l, so not as good FE as one might think.... An eco-car with 3 passengers is using less fuel per person than any scooter.

No eco-car with 3 passengers uses less fuel per passenger than a 125cc scooter with 2 passengers on similar road conditions.

[seedy]

2013 PCX 150cc average fuel economy 2.02 L per 100 km

Bought new Nov 2013. Ride it like I stole it.

Edited January 12, 2015 by seedy

[seedy]

Double post

Edited January 12, 2015 by seedy

[Berkshire]

Now you are just being offensive.

I truly care about the people of this country having raised my family here. I care far more than you seem to.

This is classic. You criticize me for "caring very little about the people in the country." But when I turn the tables, you get all bent-out-of-shape. If you're going to dish it out, you better be able to take it. Just because you pretend to care about the people of this country doesn't mean that you do. Talk is cheap.

[Berkshire]

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that your constant, high-pitched whining/whinging on an all-English language forum, is going to change anything? As well as the constant attacks on all Thais? Last question, are you delusional?

There's a difference between true constructive criticism (to the proper audience) vs. vile, bitter, and bigoted attacks on the people of this country. 99% of the comments on threads such as this are of the latter category. So don't even try to sound like you care about the health and safety of the people of Thailand. It's clear that you don't.

While some of us vent about things we can't change, I reckon we care more about the health and safety of ordinary Thais than the Thais that could do something about it. ie the Thai police don't enforce common sense road rules- do they care?, City councils won't build pavements, or keep pavements clear to use- do they care? The people that build roads make bad ones- do they care? Etc.

Even if what you say is true, does it makes sense to attack all Thai drivers as you and many others do?

In America, we've had at least 30,000 people die every year from traffic fatalities for several decades now. Does that mean that the US government doesn't care? And the American people? Yes, more can be done. In Thailand and in America. But attacking the entire populace of Thailand because of a few bad drivers is asinine.

[Berkshire]

No, that graph is NOT the Thai drivers. It's a graph of the knowledge base of all the people on this forum that whine about Thai drivers.

I'll go one better. The people on this forum that whine/whinge about Thai drivers are certifiable morons who need to be bitched-slapped.

[villagefarang]

What is not to like about being on a road like this, no matte what you are riding or driving? Taken today while out on a MTB ride.

[WheresWaldo]

Villagefarang, you gave this thread a downright poetic ending. Makes me want to jump on my bike and hit the road without a care in the world! Thanks!