Any Converts To Buddism

[roytheboy]

I was thinking, any of you bloaks from Blighty, or Aus, or europe converted to Buddism ? seems like a nice peacefull religion ! Well I have not heard of a Buddist suicide bomber yet !

And if you did, did it do anything for you ?

I went into the local church last sunday and asked the vicar what three hymns he would most like !

He pointed accross the churh and said "Him, Him, and him" mmmmmmmmmmmm.

There is one church I would like to get into "Charlotte church" ah well life goes on !

[Li Xioa Long]

The word you use "convert" is not very appropiate in terms os Buddhism.

One cannot "convert" to Buddhism like you can in for example in Christianity or Islam. You do not have to go to the temple and make a ceremony and so on. One is a Buddhist by heart. Buddhism is much more a practical than theoretical "Religion". Because of that it's often regarded as Life philosophy or attitude to life one's life rather than a religion. And you must consider the doctrine of the Buddha never said that his followers MUST do this or that. It's not a "command" like in Christianity or Islam. It's much more a "can or should" do this or that in order to life your life and to follow the ultimate path to overcome suffering. Also Buddhists are usually not a member on the paper in a temple like in the other religions where you are registered usually. You much more frequently visit them as you like. It's a very free religion indeed. Buddhism is an attitude towards life and you should carry this attitude on in your life and follow the rules that the Lord taught for example "The Four Noble Truths", "The Three Jewels" or "The Five Precepts" and of course to follow the "Dharma".

That's why in extrem Buddhist countries (especially Thaland) it's very common for a male young person to enter monkhood in order to experience the religion to it's fullest.That's when,I believe, the take on the precepts for the first time to enter. In Christianity this is not common at all and I think in Islam a monkhood doesnt even exist,becasue those people are more bound to the house of worship. They HAVE to go to church on sunday or visit the mosque on friday. In Buddhism that's not the case. You come and go to the temple,to take a short prayer for 5 minutes or to talk to Monks or the abbot if you need their spiritual guidance and support.

For your second question,if you have ever seen Buddhists blowing themselves up and killing other peoples,I don't think so. But if you consider that Japan today is infact a very Buddhist country (next to Shinto) and the life and behavior of the people,and that's what counts in living a religion,is very much influeneced by Buddhism, what would you say in this case? I believe at the time of World War 2 Japan was more Shinto than Buddhist but still they flew their planes into ships and killed themselves and other people. One precept in Buddhism is to abstain from killing any living beings,including suicide.

[Thai-Aust]

The word you use "convert" is not very appropiate in terms os Buddhism.

... the Buddha never said that his followers MUST do this or that. It's not a "command" like in Christianity or Islam.

Well said.

Also Buddhists are usually not a member on the paper in a temple like in the other religions where you are registered usually.

That's why I always have problems with registering almost everything in where I'm living now.

at the time of World War 2 Japan was more Shinto than Buddhist but still they flew their planes into ships and killed themselves and other people.

I beleive for those Japs, nationalism was more priorities than religion.

[bankei]

I think you will find 'converting' to Buddhism, at least Theravada, is usually done by reciting the Namo Tassa formula followed by taking the 5 precepts. However, it is certainly true that many 'westerners' consider themselves Buddhist without doing this. For many, the only contact is via books.

Buddhism is certainly a peaceful religion, however not all Buddhists practice peace. I remember a few years ago a Buddhist Bhikkhu in Thailand walked into Parliament with a large gun, and then there was the Sri Lankan Bhikkhu who assassinated the Sri Lankan Prime Minister back in 1956.

These days very few Japanese beleive or associate with a religion at all. Buddhism there is usually reserved for funerals, and is mostly a money making enterprise for the priests. Early last century nationalist fever spread throughout Japan, and, unfortunately, many Buddhists misused religion to justify the aggression.

[robitusson]

The differences between Buddhism and other religions doesn't make it any the less of a religion itself. Buddhism has a belief in a Transcendental state of being like achieving union with God or Heaven; a system of ethics and morals; a figure of individuated wholeness much like Moses, Christ or Mohamed; many rituals and ceremonies including initiation rites for joining the religion. There are many similarities.

Edited August 22, 2006 by robitusson

[Griffin]

How can a person convert/change to a new religion? That must mean you think to yourself one day that your first choice of god/prophet is false but the new one MUST be real, MUST be the one.

It all seems very silly to me.

If I HAD to choose a religion then I would go with Bhuddism. As the OP said it could never be as barbaric as Islam. My wife has shown/explained enough for me to say I have a passing knowledge of its principles, but as for spirits and the like. Spare me.

One question I have about Bhuddism (it is not meant to be flippent or rude) is if the Lord Bhudda was a man who is now dead and gone, how can you pray to him?

As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), there is no central deity in Bhuddism. Who or what is it that is being prayed to?

[lannarebirth]

As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), there is no central deity in Bhuddism. Who or what is it that is being prayed to?

I have asked this question many times of many people. I get the same answer from everyone: "spirits". It is not in accordance with what the Buddha taught, but is very much a part of how most Thais practice Buddhism here. For a long time I used to shake my head at this and many other "corruptions" of what the Buddha taught, but ultimately I realized it has zero impact on my practice and may in fact provide benefit and comfort to it's practitioners.

[Li Xioa Long]

These days very few Japanese beleive or associate with a religion at all. Buddhism there is usually reserved for funerals, and is mostly a money making enterprise for the priests. Early last century nationalist fever spread throughout Japan, and, unfortunately, many Buddhists misused religion to justify the aggression.

I have to correct you slightly here. It is indeed true what you say, that if you would ask the majority of the japanese people,most of them would reply to you with "I have no religion" or "I'm not religious". But don't take it directly like that, it is a bit deeper than that.

The thing with the Japanese is, that most of them are so much practising their religion (in this case Buddhism) that they don't even notice it anymore. Their tradition was built up on that and buddhism and their kids behave like that too. This is deep in their roots. And the Japanese behavious (currently) is indeed very Buddhist-like. I have never met people who are more honest,friendly,correct (japanese NEVER steal or usually do other bad deeds or are high criminals). Of course this is not for every single japanese,but the very high majority. Buddhism is more in their tradition and roots and they make use of it in daily life,but the hardly notice becasue it's so normal for them. You can say I go to the temple 5 times a day but does this make you more religious? I think if your behaviour and manners are according to your religion you can call yourself a faithful person. And don't forget you will ALWAYS see at least a douzen persons taking prayers at a Buddhist Temple (in Tokyo for example). The thing is also that in Japan Buddhism is not state religion (like in Tibet,Thailand,Sri Lanka etc.) so i think you must consider that too. And even in the megatropolis Tokyo you will very often see a monk holding up his begging bowl. And places like Kamakura,Nara,Koya-San or Kyoto are very Buddhist cities and cutivate that aswell with lots of temples and monks. And not only funerals are held buddhist way but many other things too. But usually every Japanese gets burried Buddhist-way.

And you also have to consider that the largest Buddha-Statues in the whole world stands in Japan. In Ushiku theers the biggest buddha worldwide with i think over 120 meters or so.very impressive. So would a country build such a huge statue and call themselves "not religious"? Doesnt make much sense.

[bankei]

Japan was once a mightly Buddhist country, but I suppose it may be like Australia, many people if asked (like on a census form) would say they are Christian, but the majority wouldn't go to church, or practice. As time goes on, these people identify less with the religion. The majority of the Japanese are non relgious in my experience. Especially the younger ones.

As for Japanese never stealing, did you know there are many prisons in Japan?

Bankei

[Plus]

Korean Buddhists often get in the news for wrong reasons - cutting their fingers off for some non-religious cause, or temples ganging on each other in fight for supremacy, with hundreds of monks with sticks roaming the streets, much like Bangkok Technical school students.

[Abrasol]

When it comes to the question of converting, ceremonies, initiation rites, etc, one must see Buddhism as a big PLURAL, I guess.

Mahayana doesn't require anything like ceremonies or initiation rituals or else, while in Vajrayana (also called Lamaism) initiation is required in many cases. No initiation ceremonies, no instructions - no secret Mantras and no "special practise"!

In Theravada you have the choice between beeing Lay or Phraa, if you want to stay some time (or forever) in a Wat, well you need to follow the rules, having an initiation as well (as far as I know). There are some ceremonies and rites which one may call "religious practise" as well. There is nothing you "need" to do, but if you want to practise in a Wat,- there are clear conditions and rules to follow!

One may call those actions converting to some "Religion", accepting a Dogma or whatever - it is a western expression that is not used in Buddhism. But on the other hand, the term "buddhist monk" or "temple" aren't appropriate either, (in fact they are western expressions, that were reported from other religions) but they are commonly used and accepted, though.

The term you may use isn't that relevant, but what you mean or understand by that term matters.

Btw: worshiping is not the same thing as praying to some Entity or Godess. And yes, asking favors by praying to some Buddha (there are more than one anyway) seems useless, as they are extinguished. No more contact is possible with them. They literally don't exist anymore.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Abrasol

[ThaiPauly]

This is my take on it, and it may well be different from how others see it.

Thais I know, my Wife for one, do not in fact PRAY to Bhudda, Bhudda was a human being and is dead.

They try to follow in his footsteps from his teachings as much as they can. The more times they visit a temple the more they are putting themselves out therefore making merit for not only themsleves but others around them whom they loveand have lost.They are also reminding themselves about their obligations to help others and to be good people.

I have spoken to Monks on many occassions , and on one of them my Wife asked a Monk a potentially 'life altering' question as to wheather we should relocate to the island on which he was a Monk.

He said he could not say...he was only there because of fate and destiny. Because he was a Monk on a beautiful island it made absolutley no difference to him than if he were a Monk in a Bangkok slum.....it amazes me that real genuine Monks will never tell you the answer which you are seeking, but just answer a question with another one. They have this great ability to put things in perspective and make one feel humble...I really never felt humble in Church, I just felt I had done my duty, piad my respet to God and put my money in the collection box..Salvation was mine!!

I now consider myself Bhuddist, I can do a limited amount of Pali Chanting and I read a lot of books on the subject, although I am a slow reader, I am NOT a Monk so therefore as a layman I do not have to follow the precepts, but I try to think more nowadays before I act. I am calmer and more placid than before, things don't rile me so much, even when my beloved Footie team looses I dont get worked up about it...there is always next Saturday.

I have met a few revered Monks and they have definatley defined the art of 'Percieving' and I will tell you why.....last year I went to Bangkok to visit a Monk I had met at the Temple in Wimbledon London, he see's so many people when he is here, he is the Abbot of Birmingham's Wat, there must have been 100 people waiting to see him that had come from alll over Thailand,

When my Wife and I went in to see him for our short audience he imediatley said to me'you are still drinking too much and your Wife wants you to stop'

How did he know that.? as it was true..if that was not 'Perceiving' as I have read about in other books such as 'The Fruit of Karma' then what is.?

I get more out of thinking of myself as Bhuddist than Christian, more at ease with the World, and I definatley believe in Karma, which makes ME a better person IMHO

Just my 2 satangs worth, and if anyone disagrees with me ,then please feel free to point me in another direction..I am always eager to learn more

TP

[the swagman]

Many thank's for the interesting replys, I quite like the theory of the Budddist, and as my hair is dissapearing on the top, Im soon gonna look like a monk ! "joke" and I need calming down to take my my off of other things ! Well at least they don't s.ag the chior boys like the Catholics !

As, Dave allen quoted "May your god go with you " !

You don't have to 'convert' roytheboy. There is no conversion to Buddhism.

By reading and understanding the Four Noble Truths and following the Noble Eightfold Path you can live your life as a Buddhist does.

The spirits and whatnot are not Buddhism, yet they are a vital and prevalent part of Thai society. It doesn't hurt.

All religions practise compassion, kindness and helping fellow man, whichever creed you follow, is your choice. How you live your life is your choice.

Buddhism to me means a calmer mind, a generally better outlook on life and less tension.

[roytheboy]

Many thank's for the interesting replys, I quite like the theory of the Budddist, and as my hair is dissapearing on the top, Im soon gonna look like a monk ! "joke" and I need calming down to take my my off of other things ! Well at least they don't s.ag the chior boys like the Catholics !

As, Dave allen quoted "May your god go with you " !

You don't have to 'convert' roytheboy. There is no conversion to Buddhism.

By reading and understanding the Four Noble Truths and following the Noble Eightfold Path you can live your life as a Buddhist does.

The spirits and whatnot are not Buddhism, yet they are a vital and prevalent part of Thai society. It doesn't hurt.

All religions practise compassion, kindness and helping fellow man, whichever creed you follow, is your choice. How you live your life is your choice.

Buddhism to me means a calmer mind, a generally better outlook on life and less tension.

Intriuged, do they forgive "sinners" as I am getting past the point of redemption !

[the swagman]

Many thank's for the interesting replys, I quite like the theory of the Budddist, and as my hair is dissapearing on the top, Im soon gonna look like a monk ! "joke" and I need calming down to take my my off of other things ! Well at least they don't s.ag the chior boys like the Catholics !

As, Dave allen quoted "May your god go with you " !

You don't have to 'convert' roytheboy. There is no conversion to Buddhism.

By reading and understanding the Four Noble Truths and following the Noble Eightfold Path you can live your life as a Buddhist does.

The spirits and whatnot are not Buddhism, yet they are a vital and prevalent part of Thai society. It doesn't hurt.

All religions practise compassion, kindness and helping fellow man, whichever creed you follow, is your choice. How you live your life is your choice.

Buddhism to me means a calmer mind, a generally better outlook on life and less tension.

Intriuged, do they forgive "sinners" as I am getting past the point of redemption !

Who is they?

[jdinasia]

hmmmm I am not sure that I agree with the "you do not convert" to Buddhism statement. The refuge ceremony is common. It could easily e described as converting. However, since it does not require you to denounce any other religion ........

Edited August 31, 2006 by jdinasia

[lannarebirth]

Intriuged, do they forgive "sinners" as I am getting past the point of redemption !

Hi roytheboy.

At this point it might be a good idea for you to read an introductory book on Buddhism. Might I suggest:

"What the Buddha Taught" by Venerable Dr. W. Rahula

[the swagman]

hmmmm I am not sure that I agree with the "you do not convert" to Buddhism statement. The refuge ceremony is common. It could easily e described as converting. However, since it does not require you to denounce any other religion ........

As Buddhism is a 'godless' religion there is no real conversion. There is the ordination ceremony for novices when they are to enter the temple for a period of time. This is not a conversion but a declaration if you like that they will follow the strict disciplinary code for monks while living in the temple.

The lay followers of Buddhism need not go to the temple to declare their devotion but to live a life as morally and with as much awareness as possible.

'Buddhism is supposed to guide me and my conduct. It is both a way of thinking and behaviour as well as a way to reshape these.' Dalai Lama

I f you are a practioner and a sincere follower of that tradition then you can call yourself a Buddhist.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[camerata]

I f you are a practioner and a sincere follower of that tradition then you can call yourself a Buddhist.

Correct me if I am wrong.

There's a good article on the subject at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40666

[kenk3z]

How do you all feel about accepting the full account of Lord Buddha's life?

Do you believe the story literally as Christians are supposed to believe the account of Christ's life? There are a lot of supernatural events described, from the moment of Buddha's birth to the moment of his death.

Or is it even important?

I like to study the Buddhist philosophy that guides how to think and live. It is very compatible with being a Christian. And I visit the local Wat with the wife often and feel well received. In the reverse case of taking my wife to Christian church - would she be welcome there without a lot of "conversion" efforts?

kenk3z

[the swagman]

I f you are a practioner and a sincere follower of that tradition then you can call yourself a Buddhist.

Correct me if I am wrong.

There's a good article on the subject at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40666

An excellent piece. Thank you Camerata.

[jdinasia]

hmmmm I am not sure that I agree with the "you do not convert" to Buddhism statement. The refuge ceremony is common. It could easily e described as converting. However, since it does not require you to denounce any other religion ........

As Buddhism is a 'godless' religion there is no real conversion. There is the ordination ceremony for novices when they are to enter the temple for a period of time. This is not a conversion but a declaration if you like that they will follow the strict disciplinary code for monks while living in the temple.

The lay followers of Buddhism need not go to the temple to declare their devotion but to live a life as morally and with as much awareness as possible.

'Buddhism is supposed to guide me and my conduct. It is both a way of thinking and behaviour as well as a way to reshape these.' Dalai Lama

I f you are a practioner and a sincere follower of that tradition then you can call yourself a Buddhist.

Correct me if I am wrong.

you may wish to take a look here http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/refuge.html

or here

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/Buddhist.htm

Taking refuge in the 3 gems is a common practice and can be seen as a 'statement of conversion'.

Not required, and not even used by some sects of Buddhism.

Edited September 1, 2006 by jdinasia