Drama --labels -- Disagreements In Principle

[jdinasia]

There does seem to be some polarization in this sub-forum. Big deal.

As I see it ---Basically there are 2 groups of people commenting in this sub-forum

1) People that generalize and stereotype Thai gay men as being on the whole non-trustworthy-- Sometimes directly and sometimes just by running stories that show every character in a bad light.

2) People that think Thai gay men are .... gay men. No more or less trustworthy than other gay men anywhere.

I can only really speak for the second group and only from my views of it. I am not going to quote from Steven's dramatic exit.

Over the past couple of years we have seen countless threads that call into question the character of Thai gay men over and over. The most recent thread "How to avoid questionable characters" was yet another example. In most cases I have spoken out strongly against threads like this <<not the right of the thread to exist or the right of the instigator to spew what I have seen as racist crap to spew it>>, but against the premise that people need to be painted into ugly little boxes.

Yes I know that some people have had bad experiences. I don't know anyone ANYWHERE in the world that hasn't if they have been in the dating pool for any amount of time. Yes there are some things that ARE significantly different about living here in Thailand than "back home". I, and many other people, have spoken to those differences over the last couple of years.

I have been offended and insulted by a few members of group one on many occassions ... no big deal. I have thick skin. I have been offensive <in their eyes> and most probably insulting to members of group 1 also. Again they are adults and should be able to deal with it. I can't say that anyone has been perfect. << I will give the mods --- both ChrisP and PeaceB--- huge amounts of credit for keeping most discussions very civil and well mannered even when opinions were STRONG on both sides>> I can say I do not think I have ever deliberately misquoted anyone on this forum; nor have I misrepresented what anyone has said.

I believe that this subforum has great merit to it and that ALL VIEWPOINTS should be heard. Really ... ALL VIEWPOINTS! As sick as some people's constant characterizations of Thai gay men make me at times; That is the experience of that writer.

so in ending ...

Steven ... don't feel compelled to leave. I would encourage you to think about how you represent gay Thai men but I don't think that you will be able to change how you see things so feel free to spell it out! Just don't be so thin-skinned when people disagree. Certainly don't be thin-skinned when a mod does his job, regardless of his personal friendship with you.

I see many of your insights into life as a gay man in Thailand as invaluable. I see merit in someone having a more cautionary voice in dealing with Thai gay men even! The fact that people disagree with you no matter how strongly shouldn't disuade you from posting.

[jdinasia]

The start of it all can basically be found in this thread ... (it was around that time at least)

I do owe an apology to IJWT for slapping him around on his post counts when he was a new member of T.V.com. I was patently wrong.

rereading that thread makes me sad I never did meet Kat in BKK ... I will try and make a point of it next time I fly up there. I still disagree with her but i respect her more than most people that post on T.V.com

I was strident back then .... yes it is 18 months ago .... and yes my posts have gone WAY WAY WAY up in the last 8 months (making me an idiot for what I have already apologized for above) Back then I ONLY read and posted in the gay forum and now I post much more all over the boards. Mainly in Newsclippings (about 30% but that is the area I post in most)

anyway ... where it all began ... my first extreme rant on T.V. I think ....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=227074

I leave it for the readers to figure out ... but it aint pretty ... and that includes me ... strangely I think IJWT and myself still feel about the same on our personal P.O.V. to this date

[Scott]

This is a little confusing. What exactly is the disagreement about and why is anyone leaving? I hope it can be resolved since both posters mentioned are valuable members of the forum and have contributed a great deal.

Differing points of view are what makes it interesting and helpful. You get a chance to learn and to look at things from different angles. Otherwise, everything gets pretty one dimensional.

[jdinasia]

OLD News... but basically just as said in the first post of this thread ....

[DUMPSTER]

Steven and PB, for that matter, both threw their handbags to the ground and stormed off that teacher forum. Why? They obviously felt so insecure that they had to run away. I think they have both returned. So Steven will be back, that’s if he has really left, once he has adjusted his knickers after getting them in a twist.

It does make you wonder how much conviction he has with his postings if he runs away. Obviously deep down he doesn't believe his own crap. I have taken many a knock from straights and gays on this forum and without much protection from the mods. Did I run away? What for? I accept that's how those guys see the world and I get on with it. It really is no big deal. They can’t touch me because I am very secure with myself. I have a belief and a knowing that I am comfortable with at this time.

So why do I post? Hopefully somebody might relate to what I have to say and I might relate to other posters. Some guys obviously relate to Stevens posts, while others don’t. I have never really liked Steven’s posts and have said that on many occasions. He clearly sees the world differently to me but I can still respect him despite our different outlooks.

So as for throwing a tantrum, I say grow up. As for leaving I say, #### off and just go if you want to and close the door on your way out.

My advice? Start looking at yourself and stop blaming others for your inadequacies.

Until that day comes you have little chance of finding happiness and to start knocking other posters happiness to justify your own miserable existence is one huge sign saying I need help!

Good luck

[jdinasia]

Down Dumpy!

I tried really hard not to even directly respond to the tantrum in that other thread and just say something for a point.

If I would have taken the advice given early on when I started posting here and confronting the folks that stereotyped all Thai gay men I would have packed it in 18 months ago (take a look at the link above ... I was strident! )

I for one am glad I stuck it out. I have also been glad to have IJWT around even if it was just to have someone to put out all those stereotypes so they could be discussed and dismissed.

while I may agree with the concept behind your posts quite often Dumpy .... you do step the levelup a bit to the extreme Tone it down ... if you are right about your suppositions ... merely saying "grow a pair" isn't gonna help here!

[DUMPSTER]

while I may agree with the concept behind your posts quite often Dumpy .... you do step the levelup a bit to the extreme Tone it down ... if you are right about your suppositions ... merely saying "grow a pair" isn't gonna help here!

Don't think I said grow a pair of balls. I said one should take a look at oneself instead of blaming everything and everyone around them for their inadequacies.

As for toning up or down, I post as I see fit. I don't think I need to be told how to post, unless it's from a mod when I may have over stepped the guidlines of posting.

Edited August 18, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[jdinasia]

sorry for putting that in qoutes ... shouldn't have been

and feel free to bitchslap me anytime i do have thick skin and yes you can post as you see fit as can I ... and even the listmakers and stereotypers

Edited August 18, 2006 by jdinasia

[PeaceBlondie]

Point of clarification, since it was mentioned: IJWT and I left the other forum due to gay-bashing and pedo-accusings that were barely moderated, if at all. Totally unpleasant playground to play in. I went back when they asked me to return, as a moderator, and when the moderators promised to catch the gay and pedo calls before they got out of hand. IJWT has never returned to that forum

I hope IJWT comes back to take part in the Gay forum; he belongs here, and nobody asked him to leave. Now, enough about that, please.

[DUMPSTER]

Point of clarification, since it was mentioned: IJWT and I left the other forum due to gay-bashing and pedo-accusings that were barely moderated, if at all. Totally unpleasant playground to play in. I went back when they asked me to return, as a moderator, and when the moderators promised to catch the gay and pedo calls before they got out of hand. IJWT has never returned to that forum

I hope IJWT comes back to take part in the Gay forum; he belongs here, and nobody asked him to leave. Now, enough about that, please.

I don't think I would run away just because of a few accusations or that I was gay especially if i had nothing to hide. If you are secure with your own knowing and being then that is all you need. As for running away IMO that is always a cowards choice or someone who is guilty.

I was gay bashed in the Pattaya forum. Not a mod in sight because they are all buddies together. Did I defend myself for being gay? No bloody way, why should I. If they don't like it then tough luck. If they feel threatened then they have to deal with it.

I think you understand the toss me off reference from your experiences as an authority in all things Thai....

Now, I'm an authority on tossing off.

I don't think a mod should take sides as to who he/she thinks should stay. One should be impartial don't you think?

At the end of the day it's the memebers choice unless he/she gets banned. If IJWT wants to leave whose business is it apart from him. The only thing I object to is leaving in a tantrum. Just GO or just stay but it appears his ego has gotten the better of him and he chose to make it a big drama and get the attention he obviously likes

Edited August 19, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[PeaceBlondie]

From the forum rules:

5) Discussion of moderation issues, actions or moderation policies concerning individual cases are not allowed in the forums. Such comments should be directed to a moderator or administrator, and not discussed on the forum.

[Jai Dee]

Enough of the cat fights and discussion of moderation.

Please read and understand the Forum Rules... they apply to all of the forums within ThaiVisa including the gay forum.

It is obvious to me that Rules 1 and 2 have been violated in this topic.

Continued violations will result in warnings and/or suspensions awarded.

Play nicely please folks.

On behalf of the ThaiVisa moderating team.