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Man Detained In Thailand Over Jonbenet Death


corkscrew

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what a hilarious description of The Blooms!!!! i lived there for six months and there is nothing 'seedy' about the place. in fact, it's quite decent.

I wonder if Karr's room is already booked?

If they were smart, they would jack up the prices ten times, and rent it by the night.

To Israelis. (Sorry, inside joke.)

Edited by Thaiquila
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OK. Now I've had it with Fox they interviewed an elderly lady, no idea who she was, my holiday to Bangkok was shocking, my 9 y-o was aproached by pimps trying to sell him an 7 y-o girl. :o

If you go around Bangkok and believe everything you hear you will end up to be tried to sell a ... Baby elephant who has an emphasis on boys under 10 y-o.

Where is the address on web I can send mail to Fox?

I know it won't matter at all, but the only thing I can do. And believe me I want to give them some reply.

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The suspect was arrested Wednesday morning and has confessed to certain elements of the crime that are unknown to the general public, KUSA reported.

The man already was already held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges, sources told The Associated Press.

Prosecutors have not confirmed the identity of the suspect, but expect to hold a press conference later today.

Good news!

GREAT NEWS JUST ANOTHER SICK PERVERTED SO CALLED TEACHER BEEN CAUGHT THE COUNTRY IS FULL OF THEM

after reviewing Paulv's posts ... I predict a limited shelf-life for him on T.V.com :D

I'm inclined to believe your prediction jd :o

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Patsy Ramsey, by all accounts, was the one who encouraged JonBenet to enter the pageants and she loved their time together at these events. NOTHING in the background of either parent would suggest they were capable of this crime. Bottom line....an inexperienced (with regards to murder) police force that botched the case. Both parents normal, well adjusted people who have been put under a microscope and guess what.....nothing abnormal has been revealed. How many people can stand up to this kind of scrutiny? :o

Actually the police thought they had solved the case, but the D.A. refused to charge Patsy because he didn't think the evidence was airtight and didn't want another O.J. Simpson fiasco. The Ramseys were well to do and had expensive lawyers.

The police theory is that Patsy accidently killed her in a fit of rage -- due to continuous bed wetting -- the staged the rest to cover the accident. The best answer I've ever heard that fits the evidence.

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Thailand's headache is just about to become America's headache:

Karr set to be deported this evening

The American suspected of killing a six-year-old beauty queen will be deported to the United States this evening.

Amid mounting doubts as to whether John Karr, now 41, really murdered JonBenet Ramsey a decade ago, Lt-General Suwat Thamrongsisakul, commissioner of the Immigration Bureau, said yesterday that an air ticket for Karr's departure was ready.

The suspect will be transferred from the detention centre at the bureau's head office to Bangkok International Airport at 3pm, he said.

Officials have said the schoolteacher would be flown to Boulder, Colorado, where he will face charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault.

A Thai Airways official said Karr was booked on TG794 bound for Los Angeles and would be accompanied by US security officers.

Suwat said a special detail might be provided because Karr was involved in a high-profile criminal case and an army of reporters were likely to follow his move from Suan Plu to the airport.

A US Embassy source could not confirm Karr's departure date and said authorities were working through legal paperwork to expedite his expulsion. After three days in custody, Karr's mental status was still good, Suwat said.

Two police had been assigned to guard him. Yesterday he was served food from KFC as he requested. A children's KFC Happy Meal? :o:D

US officials, the only ones who have actually interrogated Karr, have been silent about what he told them, citing his right to privacy and legal procedures, while Thai officials have been characteristically casual about giving out information about the case, rarely qualifying its reliability.

But police statements have raised questions about whether Karr is the killer or merely someone obsessed with the murder, one of the most notorious unsolved killings of the past decade in the United States.

On Friday, Suwat backed off of certain details he had given of Karr's story - details that had cast suspicion on his confession.

He told reporters before a news conference that Karr had claimed to have picked up JonBenet at her school, though her death came during the holiday break. On Friday, Suwat confirmed his account of the sexual assault but revised the parts about Karr giving the girl drugs and fetching her from school.

"It may have been drugs, or it may have been something else because [Karr said] it [the encounter] was a blur, blur," Suwat said.

Also the statement about the girl being picked up from school was based on a documentary he had seen and not based on any interrogation, he said. Questions have also arisen over whether Karr was in Colorado at the time of the murder.

But access to Karr has been barred.

A sign was posted on Friday at the gate of the immigration centre lockup where he is being held, saying Karr would not be allowed visitors.

The sign directed those seeking to interview him to contact the US Embassy directly.

- The Nation

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Patsy Ramsey, by all accounts, was the one who encouraged JonBenet to enter the pageants and she loved their time together at these events. NOTHING in the background of either parent would suggest they were capable of this crime. Bottom line....an inexperienced (with regards to murder) police force that botched the case. Both parents normal, well adjusted people who have been put under a microscope and guess what.....nothing abnormal has been revealed. How many people can stand up to this kind of scrutiny? :o

Actually the police thought they had solved the case, but the D.A. refused to charge Patsy because he didn't think the evidence was airtight and didn't want another O.J. Simpson fiasco. The Ramseys were well to do and had expensive lawyers.

The police theory is that Patsy accidently killed her in a fit of rage -- due to continuous bed wetting -- the staged the rest to cover the accident. The best answer I've ever heard that fits the evidence.

Actually, I guess it comes down to who you believe; a police force with almost NO experience in solving crimes of this type OR an impartial judge ruling on FACTS presented AND NOT media reports (many not accurate) and false statements thrown out by the police to point the finger at the Ramseys and get public opinion on their (the police) side.

If the best answer you've heard that fits the evidence is the simple police theory then I guess you haven't heard much about this case. :D

04/13/2003

Ramsey ruling is judicial analysis

By Travis Henry

The Daily Times-Call

The 93-page ruling issued by a U.S. district judge earlier this month is the first real judicial analysis of evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey case made available to the public.

Although Judge Julie Carnes’ ruling is based on a civil suit, it painstakingly examines evidence gathered by police and points out shortcomings in the investigation.

The case landed in Carnes’ lap in Atlanta in March 2001, when Boulder freelance journalist Chris Wolf sued John and Patsy Ramsey after Wolf was mentioned as a possible suspect in the Ramseys’ book, “The Death of Innocence,” during media interviews promoting the book and in profiles prepared by the Ramseys’ private investigators.

Represented by attorney Darnay Hoffman, Wolf claimed that Patsy Ramsey killed her 6-year-old daughter on Dec. 25, 1996, and was naming other suspects to shift attention away from her.

That claim became paramount in the case, because it meant to win the lawsuit, Wolf would have to prove that Patsy Ramsey was involved in her daughter’s death.

The Evidence

Carnes began her ruling outlining the timeline of the crime, which had been reported repeatedly in the media, sometimes accurately and sometimes not.

On Dec. 25, 1996, John and Pasty Ramsey attended, with their children JonBenet and Burke, a Christmas party at the home of family friends Fleet and Priscilla White. The children fell asleep in the car on the way home and were taken to bed. The family planned to wake up early the next day because they were going to fly to Michigan for a family vacation.

According to John and Patsy Ramsey, they were never awakened in the night, although a neighbor told police she heard a scream in the early morning of Dec. 26.

Carnes ruled that it was very plausible the neighbor could have heard the scream without it being heard in the house.

“Experiments have demonstrated that the vent from the basement may have amplified the scream so that it could have been heard outside the house, but not three stories up, in the defendant’s bedroom,” Carnes wrote in her ruling.

In his lawsuit, Wolf contends that Patsy Ramsey never went to sleep on the night of Dec. 25, based on the fact she was wearing the same clothing the next day.

Relying on theories introduced by former Boulder police Detective Steve Thomas, Wolf contends that Patsy Ramsey became upset that her daughter wet the bed and in a fit of rage slammed her head against a hard surface.

The autopsy report states that JonBenet suffered a severe blow to her head shortly before or around the time of her murder.

Wolf surmises that Patsy Ramsey then staged a crime scene to make it look like an intruder killed JonBenet.

“Plaintiff has provided no evidence for this theory,” Carnes wrote.

JonBenet was found in the wine-cellar in the basement of the family’s home with duct tape covering her mouth. A cord was around her neck, attached to a wooden garrote, and her hands were bound over her head. She was covered by a light blanket.

According to Carnes, the slipknots and garrote were both sophisticated bondage devices designed to give control to the user.

“Evidence from these devices suggests they were made by someone with expertise using rope and cords, which ... could not be found or ‘sourced’ within defendants’ home,” Carnes wrote.

Carnes said the black duct tape also was not “sourced” to the defendants.

Animal hair, alleged to be from a beaver, was found on the duct tape. Carnes wrote that nothing in the Ramsey home was found matching the hair.

Other dark animal hairs were found on JonBenet’s hands that matched nothing in the Ramsey home, Carnes wrote.

Other evidence pointing to an intruder includes a shoeprint of a “HI-TEC” boot imprinted in mold on the basement floor and a palm print in the wine cellar.

Police also found a baseball bat not owned by the Ramseys on the north side of the house with fibers on it consistent with fibers found in the carpet in the basement where JonBenet’s body was found.

Carnes wrote that other evidence included a rope found in a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom of the Ramsey home.

A forensic pathologist hired by the Ramseys concluded that the injuries to the right side of JonBenet Ramsey’s face were consistent with injuries sustained from a stun gun.

Carnes also noted that an autopsy report revealed injury to JonBenet’s genitalia suggesting she was sexually assaulted shortly before her death. Unknown male DNA was found under JonBenet’s fingernails and in her underwear.

“Finally, a Caucasian ‘pubic or auxiliary’ hair was found on the blanket covering JonBenet’s body,” the judge wrote. “The hair does not match that of any Ramsey and has not been sourced.”

The judge wrote that Detective Lou Smit said JonBenet was a “pedophile’s dream come true.” She wrote that JonBenet received considerable attention as “Little Miss Colorado” and several beauty pageants she participated in.

On Dec. 6, 1996, she was in the Parade of Lights, where thousands of people attended, the judge noted.

“In addition, on Dec. 25, 1996, while playing at the home of a neighborhood friend, JonBenet told her friend’s mother that ‘Santa Claus’ was going to pay her a ‘special’ visit after Christmas and that it was a secret,” the judge wrote. “The person who may have said this to JonBenet has never been identified.”

Carnes also wrote at length criticizing media reports that reported on a lack of snowy footprints and that the window well into the basement wasn’t accessible.

“Moreover, contrary to media reports that had discredited an intruder theory, based on the lack of ‘footprints in the snow,’ there was no snow covering the sidewalks and walkways to the defendants’ home on the morning of December 26, 1996,” Carnes wrote. “Hence, a person walking along these paths would have left no footprints.”

She also said experiments done by investigators proved an adult could enter the basement through the window well.

The Investigation

In her ruling, Carnes was critical of the Boulder Police Department, saying that officers who responded to the kidnapping call seriously compromised the crime scene.

“Contrary to normal protocol, the police did not seal off the defendants’ home, with the sole exception being the interior of JonBenet’s bedroom,” Carnes wrote. “In other words, any person in the Ramsey home could, and often did, move freely throughout the home.”

She noted that at the time of JonBenet’s murder, Boulder police had limited experience in conducting murder investigations. She wrote that the man in charge, Cmdr. Jon Eller, had never conducted a murder investigation before.

“One lead detective assigned to the case, Steven Thomas, had no prior experience with a murder investigation and had previously served as an undercover narcotics officer,” Carnes wrote. “Finally the officer who took charge of the investigation in October 1997, Mark Beckner, also had limited homicide experience.”

The next year, Beckner became chief of police.

Carnes wrote that police made many mistakes during the course of the investigation, including the department’s failure to interview Patsy and John Ramsey separately on the day JonBenet’s body was found.

She said police did interview the Ramseys together several times in the ensuing days and began to focus their investigation on the parents as the main suspects.

Carnes said it was also clear that investigators were focusing only on the Ramseys, and no other suspects, from the beginning.

“Pursuant to the FBI’s suggestion that the Boulder Police publicly name defendants as subjects and apply intense media pressure to them so that they would confess to the crime, the police released many statements that implied defendants were guilty and were not cooperating with police,” Carnes wrote.

The judge said that despite widespread criticism that the Ramseys failed to cooperate with police, John and Patsy Ramsey were actually very cooperative.

“During the course of the investigation, defendants signed over one hundred releases for information requested by the police and provided all evidence and information requested by the police,” Carnes wrote.

According to Carnes, the Ramseys gave hair, including pubic hair, and DNA samples to the police and agreed to be interviewed separately three different times.

Carnes also wrote that Smit, a retired detective hired on by District Attorney Alex Hunter to help with the case, became frustrated with Boulder police.

“He resigned from the investigation at some point in September 1998, however, because he felt that the Boulder Police Department refused to investigate leads that pointed to an intruder as the murderer of JonBenet, and instead insisted on focusing only on defendants as the culprits,” Carnes wrote.

She said two other men, sheriff’s Detective Steve Ainsworth and Assistant District Attorney Trip DeMuth, who also believed evidence pointed toward an intruder as the killer, were also soon removed from the case.

In the summer of 1998, Hunter convened a grand jury to investigate the murder. On Oct. 13, 1999, the grand jury was discharged without issuing an indictment.

“The District Attorney, and all other prosecutors involved in the proceedings believed at that time there was insufficient evidence to bring charges against any person, including defendants in connection with the murder,” Carnes rote.

The Aftermath

Carnes ruling was seen as a boon for the Ramseys, but it was nothing compared to the reaction to a statement Boulder County District Attorney Mary Keenan released last Monday saying she agreed with Carnes’ statement.

Keenan said Carnes dropped a bombshell when she ruled that evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey case suggests that an intruder, rather than Patsy Ramsey, killed JonBenet.

Ramsey attorney Lin Wood called it a day of vindication for his clients and said that the days of people accusing them of murder should end.

Beckner said he believed Keenan’s statements may be viewed as criticism against his department. He also said he was surprised that Keenan would make her personal beliefs about the case public.

Several prosecutors in the district attorney’s office have quietly said they wonder now if the Ramseys could ever be prosecuted, even if there was evidence pointing to their guilt.

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what a hilarious description of The Blooms!!!! i lived there for six months and there is nothing 'seedy' about the place. in fact, it's quite decent.

Again another America News paper tell the truth about the Blooms.

I think the people that stay there don't known a dump.

There are just poor people who need a place to stay.

Many faces of solitary fiend

Bizarre Karr's look altered by Thai docs

BY MATHEW SCOTT

SPECIAL TO THE NEWS

The building where John Mark Kerr resided in Bangkok.

BANGKOK - John Mark Karr was changing his face in the months leading up to his capture this week in Thailand.

Phone records show that in the nine months the self-confessed killer of JonBenet Ramsey was holed up in a grubby room in one of Bangkok's seedy apartment buildings, he made just 12 calls - nine of them to some of the city's legions of cosmetic surgeons.

Records indicate he had work done by doctors at the Piatunum Poly Clinic in March, and went to the Pruk Shin Care Centre for more work the next month.

By the end of April, the ice-faced 41-year-old was signing up for a series of laser treatments to remove facial hair at the Pruksan Laser Centre - treatments that would continue on a regular basis up until the start of this month when Colorado police began tracking him down.

The revelations fit the picture that emerged in Bangkok yesterday that this is a perv with many faces.

Staff at the Blooms Residence - where records show Karr checked in on Dec. 18 before being led out shamed and in handcuffs Thursday night - said he was a model patron.

"He was very quiet," said Blooms receptionist Kewaree Tungkam. "He never had any guests - no ladies like some of the other guests do. He paid on time and only got angry when the storms stopped him watching CNN. Then he would get angry and yell."

Records show Karr paid 52,060 baht - $1,385 - for his nine-month stay at Blooms, a notorious, grubby haunt for sex tourists. Staff said he ate quietly on his own in the hotel café, and never bothered anyone.

He apparently also drank alone. The only thing left behind in his room besides the hotel's dreary furniture were empty booze bottles in his bedroom and the bathroom.

But fellow Blooms resident Bijan Fadjad had a different story to tell.

"You could tell he was a creep just by looking at him," said the 27-year-old American. "He never looked anyone in the eye and was always sneaking about on his own. It gave me the chills."

Fadjad has spent the past three months in a room three doors down from Karr with the same sparse, bleak fittings.

"People stay here because it is cheap - and you are left alone," he said. "For a guy like this one, it makes sense why he would be here."

Karr's ex-employers at the all-boys Bangkok Christian College also described the sometime teacher as a quiet man who went about his business. But the mothers of his ex-pupils were casting him in a different light entirely.

"He worked for us for two weeks at the start of June," said Dr. Banchong Chompoowong, the school's assistant director. "He was a nice man with a nice philosophy about why he wanted to teach - he liked children.

"Some students loved him, but some thought he was too strict. That is why we had to let him go."

One mother, whose 6-year-old son was in Karr's class, spoke outside the school while her little boy held her hand.

"He was there for about a month," she said, before refusing to offer her name for fear of recriminations from the school. "There were many complaints about him and about how he treated the children. He was very harsh, and he made the kids uncomfortable."

Karr had begun work at another international school in Bangkok just days before he was arrested.

While the world speculated about Karr's story, the man who has been interviewing him in his Bangkok detention cell for the past few days said Karr continues to cut a solitary figure.

"He is alone," said Maj. Supachai Paladech, the inspector in charge of deportation at Thailand's immigration department.

"He is relaxed and said he has no friends in Thailand. He said he had made a lot of money working in Europe and Central America. He has spoken to no one - not even his family. I think he just wants to go back to the United States."

"To us he was just a good guest," said Blooms' Tungkam. "But I guess you never know."

Originally published on August 19, 2006

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what a hilarious description of The Blooms!!!! i lived there for six months and there is nothing 'seedy' about the place. in fact, it's quite decent.

Again another America News paper tell the truth about the Blooms.

I think the people that stay there don't known a dump.

There are just poor people who need a place to stay.

Many faces of solitary fiend

Bizarre Karr's look altered by Thai docs

BY MATHEW SCOTT

SPECIAL TO THE NEWS

The building where John Mark Kerr resided in Bangkok.

BANGKOK - John Mark Karr was changing his face in the months leading up to his capture this week in Thailand.

Phone records show that in the nine months the self-confessed killer of JonBenet Ramsey was holed up in a grubby room in one of Bangkok's seedy apartment buildings, he made just 12 calls - nine of them to some of the city's legions of cosmetic surgeons.

Records indicate he had work done by doctors at the Piatunum Poly Clinic in March, and went to the Pruk Shin Care Centre for more work the next month.

By the end of April, the ice-faced 41-year-old was signing up for a series of laser treatments to remove facial hair at the Pruksan Laser Centre - treatments that would continue on a regular basis up until the start of this month when Colorado police began tracking him down.

The revelations fit the picture that emerged in Bangkok yesterday that this is a perv with many faces.

Staff at the Blooms Residence - where records show Karr checked in on Dec. 18 before being led out shamed and in handcuffs Thursday night - said he was a model patron.

"He was very quiet," said Blooms receptionist Kewaree Tungkam. "He never had any guests - no ladies like some of the other guests do. He paid on time and only got angry when the storms stopped him watching CNN. Then he would get angry and yell."

Records show Karr paid 52,060 baht - $1,385 - for his nine-month stay at Blooms, a notorious, grubby haunt for sex tourists. Staff said he ate quietly on his own in the hotel café, and never bothered anyone.

He apparently also drank alone. The only thing left behind in his room besides the hotel's dreary furniture were empty booze bottles in his bedroom and the bathroom.

But fellow Blooms resident Bijan Fadjad had a different story to tell.

"You could tell he was a creep just by looking at him," said the 27-year-old American. "He never looked anyone in the eye and was always sneaking about on his own. It gave me the chills."

Fadjad has spent the past three months in a room three doors down from Karr with the same sparse, bleak fittings.

"People stay here because it is cheap - and you are left alone," he said. "For a guy like this one, it makes sense why he would be here."

Karr's ex-employers at the all-boys Bangkok Christian College also described the sometime teacher as a quiet man who went about his business. But the mothers of his ex-pupils were casting him in a different light entirely.

"He worked for us for two weeks at the start of June," said Dr. Banchong Chompoowong, the school's assistant director. "He was a nice man with a nice philosophy about why he wanted to teach - he liked children.

"Some students loved him, but some thought he was too strict. That is why we had to let him go."

One mother, whose 6-year-old son was in Karr's class, spoke outside the school while her little boy held her hand.

"He was there for about a month," she said, before refusing to offer her name for fear of recriminations from the school. "There were many complaints about him and about how he treated the children. He was very harsh, and he made the kids uncomfortable."

Karr had begun work at another international school in Bangkok just days before he was arrested.

While the world speculated about Karr's story, the man who has been interviewing him in his Bangkok detention cell for the past few days said Karr continues to cut a solitary figure.

"He is alone," said Maj. Supachai Paladech, the inspector in charge of deportation at Thailand's immigration department.

"He is relaxed and said he has no friends in Thailand. He said he had made a lot of money working in Europe and Central America. He has spoken to no one - not even his family. I think he just wants to go back to the United States."

"To us he was just a good guest," said Blooms' Tungkam. "But I guess you never know."

Originally published on August 19, 2006

How do you know all the people who stay there are poor? Did you interview them all? Do you have access to their bank information? Wow I've learned there are really some smart people on TV who know everything about so many other people.

I'm sure I can find people who would say the place you live is a dump; it's just a matter of opinion, friend. :o

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Another view

Johnson: Karr may be crazy, but he's not the right man

Bill Johnson

August 19, 2006

I've had enough. So I will just come right out and say what others in this business apparently will not:

Mary Lacy, that's not your boy.

John Mark Karr as much killed JonBenet Ramsey as Mickey Mouse did. This is a fool's errand you're on, and it won't end pretty.

If you haven't noticed, the guy is a lunatic.

OK, my upbringing tells me that it is a lousy thing to say about anyone. So let me put it this way: He is the saddest of all sad cases, a delusional, completely whacked out, early-teen-girl-marrying sociopath who writes bad poetry to long-dead little girls.

Perhaps that's better.

What I'm saying is no different than anyone capable of reading a newspaper or watching a television is saying.

On CNN this morning, I swore the two anchors were going to fall over laughing after they ran for the 35th-something time the audio of John Mark Karr making his wild, "It was an accident" claim.

Most journalists in this town and across the globe have been falling over themselves trying not to - in the words of Mrs. Lacy - "rush to judgment" on this fool, all the while rupturing an intestine to keep from laughing.

Not me. I can barely get up off the floor.

I watched on TV Thursday as Mary Lacy stood on a big stage, flanked on each side by a line of stiff, grim-faced G-men and cops, solemnly speaking of the "exigent circumstances" that necessitated the man's arrest in Bangkok.

On the other channel is yet more footage of John Mark Karr, staggering, half-leaning and vacant-eyed, in to his press conference, looking like a poor Pee-wee Herman impersonator.

"I'm so sorry for what happened to JonBenet," he said.

Please.

Even the Bangkok police, notorious for arresting people whether they need arresting or not, reportedly figured it out early, that this Pee-wee was whack-o.

Even they knew John Mark Karr couldn't have picked up JonBenet from school on the day he says he killed her, it being Christmas and all.

Maybe I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time I've fingered the wrong killer in this case. I still maintain I've got it at least half right.

Remember Tom Koby, the Boulder police chief at the time of the murder? He once went on TV and into the newspapers declaring he was about to hunt the killer down, that he or she wouldn't get away with it.

Call me cynical, but I don't think he had John Mark Karr in his cross hairs at the time.

Just for fun, let's say Mary Lacy has it right. Think of it.

It would make John Mark Karr the dumbest smart murderer who ever lived.

He somehow sneaked into what was then 755 15th St. in Boulder, figured out in which bedroom his "love," JonBenet was sleeping, got her downstairs unnoticed, fed her pineapple, drugged and sexually assaulted her before smashing her in the head and garroting her to death.

According to his account, such deliberation was done all "by accident."

Yet he is not done. He sits down and writes a ransom note. Maybe he did it before the pineapple thing. No matter. He scratches out a first draft. It isn't good enough.

He sits down and crafts a second one. He drops it and skedaddles.

It is a clean getaway, not a trace of John Mark Karr left behind. What's more, the coroner finds not a trace of either semen on or drugs in the girl.

Perfect crime.

And then what, 10 years later he comes clean? In Bangkok?

I'm not even waiting for the DNA tests to come back. I know the guy didn't do it.

How do I know?

Her name is Lara Knutson, the divorced wife of John Mark Karr and the mother of his children.

On Friday, she publicly said the guy was with her and the kids in Alabama on Christmas Day 1996, that they hardly had anything, much less money for a trip to Colorado.

Now, ex-wives will say and do a lot of things, but trust me, the last thing they'd ever do is risk jail time to provide your sorry backside with a phony alibi.

If I'm wrong, that is just dandy with me. DAs and cops on murder cases always tell you to just wait, that there are things they know that they just can't talk about right now.

They said the same thing in Boulder 10 years ago.

So go for it, Mary Lacy.

Being wrong again this time, though, does come with a heavy price.

On television the day of the arrest, you might remember, JonBenet Ramsey's relatives exulted over the news.

I felt sorry for them, fearful - if not certain - that once again because of blind overeagerness or sheer incompetence, Boulder authorities will disappoint them, scraping that unbearably painful 10-year-old wound.

The little girl's memory and the loved ones who survive her deserve knowing and peace, not this.

That the first time John Mark Karr ever steps foot in Boulder County will be the day Mary Lacy flies him in, well, that is simply sad and embarrassing. Not funny at all.

Bill Johnson's column appears Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Call him at 303-954-2763 or e-mail him at [email protected].

About Bill Johnson

Bill Johnson has gained most of his journalistic experience on the West Coast as a staff writer, reporter, editor and columnist. He has also been a faculty member of the University of Arizona's Editing Program for Minority Journalists within the Institute for Journalism Education. Johnson won the National Headliner Award's First Place for Columns in 1995 and was a Pulitzer Prize finalist for commentary in 1993.

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We must take the press bloviation with a` grain of salt.

Yes Thailand is known for less "psycological complications"

vis a visa having sex with someone.

ie the discussion and manuvering is less, in comparison to

western guilt driven/obsessed interpersonal negociations

leading to love making / mating.

But that said, there is NOTHING in Thailand you can't find,

in higher numbers, if not %, in the west or USA.

There is white slavery, prostitution in every major city

and many smaller ones, date rape with drugs, or drunken women

in bars, going for Mr. Wrong tonight, just cause they feel like it,

people hooking up with richer mates, for the comfort and not for love.

And of course any sexual predeliction under the sun.

Sure you can become a full transexual-katoy here much cheaper,

and just being a katoy is much easier as a life style.

But the western/pseudo-religious obsession against

easy to obtain sex, shouldn't be used to paint

Thailand as sodom and gommorah.

It is merely the difference between parochial protestant guilt feelings,

and Buddhist freedom to live in the moment and repent later at Songkran.

Of course we must add the Bush inspired swing to the religious right's

version of social paranoia of recent years... no small thing.

The majority of western reporters,

and in particular women reporters raised in the PC world,

just have no clue as to how it works here.

They see it as a sex playground and nothing more.

Their loss too.

That same freedom that allows a katoy to just be him/herself,

is the same one that attracts, misguidedly the paedophiles and

sex tourists to come looking for younger people to have sex with.

it isn't Thai people causing this problem, but westerners,

misled by raving, un-informed press reports, thinking they

have found the golden goose of sex, in any flavor their appitites dictate.

It just ain't so... but the press keeps bloviating.

Hopefull this Karr incident will discourage a few of

the more deviant sex tourists from coming,

seeing him caught, and QUICKLY sent back.

Gee it ain't a free place to diddle, best to stay home.

One can but hope...

Still the saddest part is that farangs get painted by the same brush,

as if ALL people non-tahi are ONLY here for deviant sex.

In clear contrast of most Thai women assuming that their men

frequent brothels, which being is better than having girlfriend's..

who might steal them away.

Edited by animatic
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HenryB, you seem to have quite a skill for finding sub-journalistic articles. A bit of advise, what you post tends to reflect on you. People may come to similar conclusions about you as they did about John Karr. People from every level of society read TV threads, you never know when you may need a favor or professional service. See my signature below for more advise.

Well at any rate John Karr will be out of town tonight and we can get back on criminals in politics bright and early Monday.

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Update:

JonBenet suspect leaves for airport

BANGKOK: -- The US teacher arrested over the 1996 killing of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey was taken to Bangkok's airport Sunday for deportation to the United States.

John Mark Karr, 41, left the Thai immigration detention facility in downtown Bangkok where has spent four nights since his arrest Wednesday in connection with the six-year-old's slaying.

He appeared calm, dressed in a dark red shirt with a black tie and grey pants, as Thai police escorted him to the police van taking him to the airport about 45 minutes' drive away.

The head of Thailand's immigration police, Lieutenant General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, followed in a separate car.

Before leaving the detention centre, Suwat told reporters that he sang a song to Karr, who is being deported after Thailand revoked his visa.

"The suspect told me that he likes classic songs and that he used to play guitar. So I sang the Bee Gees song 'Words' to him, and he just smiled, but didn't sing along with me," Suwat said.

Suwat also said that if Karr were found innocent of the JonBenet killing and any other crimes, that he could return to Thailand.

"He is very calm, and not scared. He said he was ready to go back home," Suwat said earlier.

Thai police said Karr would be placed on a flight leaving at 7:10 pm (1210 GMT) to Los Angeles, where he is due to arrive at 8:40 pm local time (0340 GMT Monday).

JonBenet was found strangled and beaten to death in the basement of her family's Colorado home on the day after Christmas 1996.

Karr's surprise arrest provoked a media frenzy fueled by his stunning confession to reporters and purported comments to Thai police that he had "loved" the little girl.

But revelations about his interest in child murders and an apparent alibi from an ex-wife have raised serious questions about whether Karr was responsible for the death of JonBenet, who wore makeup, glamorous outfits and struck precocious poses in her appearances at child pageants.

--AFP 2006-08-20

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Related story :

Aussie sex offender deported from Thailand August 20, 2006 - 6:25PM

An Australian paedophile listed on a child sex offender register is due to be deported from Thailand today, Thai immigration officials say.

Paul Thompson, originally from Western Australia, was detained on August 11 on immigration charges while attempting to leave Thailand for Cambodia to renew his Thai visa.

The 56-year-old's name was on an immigration watch list.

A handcuffed Thompson was taken by Thai police to the airport mid-morning today and was due to fly to Perth in the mid-afternoon, the officials said.

Police have said Thompson has a long history of child abuse charges in several countries possibly over many decades.

Thai police also accused him of molesting children in southern Thailand.

Thompson had faced prison in Australia on paedophile charges, but fled to south-east Asia, where he travelled on multiple forged passports.

The Australian Federal Police recently applied for Thompson's passport to be cancelled but the application was only received by Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs after he had left Australia.

Thompson had been held since his arrest at the Immigration Detention Centre (IDC), the same holding cells as another notorious Australian child sex offender, Bradley Pen Dragon.

Pen Dragon has been held at the IDC since he was released from Klong Prem prison on June 30 after receiving a royal pardon.

He was among 70 foreign prisoners given a general amnesty that also went to thousands of prisoners in Thai jails by Thai King Bhumipol Adulyadej.

Pen Dragon had served 10 years of a 15-year jail term for sex offences dating back to 1993. He was guilty of threatening, beating and raping three girls - one aged 12 and two aged eight.

But so far no family members or associates in Australia have come forward to pay for Pen Dragon's air ticket.

Thompson's departure came just hours before Thai police were to deport a 41-year-old US teacher, John Mark Karr, who was arrested on Thursday over the murder of American child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey 10 years ago.

Karr is expected to leave the immigration detention centre mid-afternoon local time.

AAP

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Again another America News paper tell the truth about the Blooms.

I think the people that stay there don't known a dump.

There are just poor people who need a place to stay.

poor people? the rents are way above what 'poor people' can afford!

it's a serviced apartment, air con, hot shower, cable tv, maid cleaned twice a week.

if that's your idea of a dump then i suggest you go to the heart of klong toey and have a look around.

the newspaper has described it like that to make it sound seedy, so to enhance the seediness of the article. it wouldnt have sounded so juicy if the bloke lived in a 'decent and clean serviced apartment block close to the central business district'.

shoddy, sensationalist journalism that gives the press a bad name

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HenryB, you seem to have quite a skill for finding sub-journalistic articles. A bit of advise, what you post tends to reflect on you. People may come to similar conclusions about you as they did about John Karr. People from every level of society read TV threads, you never know when you may need a favor or professional service. See my signature below for more advise.

Well at any rate John Karr will be out of town tonight and we can get back on criminals in politics bright and early Monday.

You're signature, John K, is of course very logical. But there is allways people that want the negative, since its more interesting to them, unfortuanatly.

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I found a much more accurate article on Karr and Thailand without the sensationalism we've been seeing. What this NZ guy says about Thailand is pretty accurate. He called Karr's room grungy which is a decent description of an $8 room in BKK. Anyway enjoy the read:

Why Did John Mark Karr Confess Murder In Thailand?

Sunday, 20 August 2006, 9:14 pm

Article: Richard S. Ehrlich

Why Did John Mark Karr Confess Murder In Thailand?

by Richard S. Ehrlich

BANGKOK, Thailand -- When John Mark Karr stepped out of his grungy room on Si Bamphen street, delicious scents of grilled food wafted in Bangkok's sweaty air, while coquettish male and female prostitutes vogued on the sidewalk and taxis offered rides towards greater sleaze, inexpensive ease, and shopping malls' air-conditioned breeze.

Before his shock revelations on Thursday (August 17) claiming he was with JonBenet Ramsey in her parents' basement where her six-year-old body was found beaten and strangled, Karr would have attracted little attention with his wan, metrosexual demeanor, slight build, blue eyes and high hairline.

The gritty, decadent ambiance of Si Bamphen was recently upgraded to include trendy venues for Thai and foreign homosexuals and yuppies who delight in its smattering of upmarket gay clubs, polished hotels and elegant restaurants, alongside cheap outdoor cafes, crummy one-room accommodation such as Karr's, and budget travel agencies.

Bangkok offers its seedy and opulent charms with a blush and snicker, promising the best and worst amid pampered-to-the-max comfort, gorgeous decor, and only the occasional sound of a threatening slit.

Karr repeatedly came to Thailand where he enjoyed this Southeast Asian nation's relatively low cost of living for Americans and others from wealthier countries, and its don't-ask-don't-tell "never mind" social etiquette which allows plenty of privacy and vice, especially if no harm is done and discretion is kept.

Bangkok also offers pleasurable ways for fugitives such as Karr to cool their heels, including some of world's finest cuisine, priced from one U.S. dollar on up.

But Bangkok is both naughty and nice, and attracts millions of clean living, fun-loving families, honeymooners, students, and others drawn by Thailand's temples and cultural fare, tropical beaches and mountain tribes.

In contrast to some Asian, African and Middle East holiday zones where males dominate the streets and service industries, Thailand's public face appears overwhelmingly female because girls and women are allowed in this tolerant, hedonistic, Buddhist society to play key roles in the bustling economy.

Amid the glitz, countless tourists target Bangkok for its raucous sex, drugs and techno music, which starts pulsating when taxi drivers offer colorful brochures of scantily clad masseuses.

Foreign men are so enthusiastic about bedding Thai females that Lyle Walter, a self-described "white woman," lamented in her Bangkok Post column on August 11 that when males, including professionals, go out in the evening, "it frequently does mean, 'I'm going to have some beers with Jim while naked vixens are writhing about on the glass ceiling above us.'

"There aren't too many bars with that feature back home in the States. Makes pole-dancing look downright quaint, doesn't it?" she noted.

That sometimes ends with police barging into strip-tease bars and nightclubs, demanding tourists and Thais perform immediate urine tests for drugs.

Nevertheless, Bangkok's cheap thrills distort social norms, something criminals and law-abiding citizens exploit.

People also receive help reinventing themselves here.

Thousands of male Thais, and an increasing number of foreign men, have undergone sex change operations over the past several years in Bangkok, often to compete as prostitutes, but also including transsexuals who are accepted among surprisingly blase Thais in offices and other work places.

Karr and those who dwell in the criminal underworld can depend on popular street markets where counterfeit identification cards -- including fake drivers licenses, press cards, and student i.d.s -- are openly sold by yelping touts.

Backroom deals offer false or stolen passports, visas, university degrees, bank statements and other documentation.

Karr's U.S. passport was valid, and he was granted a Thai tourist visa.

But when Thai police busted a counterfeit gang on June 16 in Bangkok, the documents they recovered included 82 fake U.S. visas, an American embassy official said.

"Bangkok is among top forgery sites due to a variety of reasons: availability of experts, international transportation links, and a comparatively friendly operating environment," the embassy official said in response to e-mailed questions about the raid, while asking not to be named.

"We routinely see the seizure of forged -- photo substituted -- U.S. passports in Bangkok in small numbers by individuals of different nationalities seeking to enter the U.S.

"In total, there has been a combined seizure of 15 to 20 photo-substituted U.S. passports in several police raids over the past two years," the American embassy official said.

Bangkok has suffered several international murderers wallowing under its pleasure domes.

In the 1970s, "Bikini Killer" Charles Sobhraj, a French citizen, lured foreign backpackers into his apartment near Sri Bamphen, and to Pattaya beach, to allegedly drug, rob and sometimes kill, during his serial murder spree across Asia.

Sobhraj now languishes in a Kathmandu, Nepal prison for murdering two foreigners in that Himalayan nation.

Three Saudi hijackers, who died in the September 11, 2001 attack on the Pentagon, escaped CIA surveillance by traveling to an al Qaeda meeting in Bangkok before flying to America, according to the U.S. government's 9/11 Commission Report.

The CIA's failure to continue following the suspects in and out of Bangkok in 2000 was described in the 585-page report under a section titled: "A Lost Trail in Southeast Asia".

Karr flew into town to teach children at some of Bangkok's most prestigious schools, and briefly worked in an elementary school at Bangkok Christian College, and St. Joseph's Convent, but was rejected for permanent hire.

Karr knew teaching English is one of the easiest ways for tourists from America, England, Australia and other English-speaking countries to finance and extend their stay.

Some foreign English teachers live in Bangkok for years working illegally, dodging Thai income tax and work permit regulations, while traveling in and out of Thailand every 90 days to renew their tourist visas.

Thailand's education system is so ill-funded and poorly staffed, that parents are pleased when schools or tutors include English-speakers such as Karr, and turn a blind eye to their qualifications.

Karr's murder confession did not answer key questions, and may instead be a dumb plot by a would-be author obsessed with Ramsey.

Ironic twists and false claims are typical of Bangkok, where public displays of lies and corruption are rife, and even Thailand's prime minister was deemed to have presided over an "illegal" nationwide election in April, which now has to be sorted out through fresh polls.

Illusion and theatrics are all part of people's behavior in this city of six million.

Some claim prostitution is so popular here because Thai bar girls pretend to be romantic girl friends for their customers, who are eager to enter fantasy relationships -- including tours to the girls' rural villages -- activities sometimes more valuable to clients than sex.

When things go wrong, unscrupulous foreigners who pursue pedophilia, extortion, gangland slayings, human trafficking and other taboos are not the only ones to blame.

Thais also commit horrendous crimes, including murder, against each other and against foreigners, including a slew of recent East-killed-West cases.

The body of Englishman Toby Charnaud, 41, was recently hacked up and roasted on charcoal in a Thai national park, and then scattered for animals to devour after he divorced his Thai wife who accrued gambling debts, a Bangkok court heard during a trial earlier this month.

In July, a jealous Thai man in Bangkok allegedly stabbed to death a New Zealand teacher, Leonard Timothy Healey, 32, over a dispute involving Healey's 19-year-old Thai girlfriend.

*************

Copyright by Richard S. Ehrlich, who has reported news from Asia for the past 28 years, and is co-author of the non-fiction book of investigative journalism, "HELLO MY BIG BIG HONEY!" Love Letters to Bangkok Bar Girls and Their Revealing Interviews. His web page is http://www.geocities.com/asia_correspondent

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00208.htm

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Update:

JonBenet suspect leaves for airport

BANGKOK: -- The US teacher arrested over the 1996 killing of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey was taken to Bangkok's airport Sunday for deportation to the United States.

He appeared calm, dressed in a dark red shirt with a black tie and grey pants, as Thai police escorted him to the police van taking him to the airport about 45 minutes' drive away.

Related story :

Aussie sex offender deported from Thailand

August 20, 2006 - 6:25PM

An Australian paedophile listed on a child sex offender register is due to be deported from Thailand today, Thai immigration officials say.

A handcuffed Thompson was taken by Thai police to the airport mid-morning today and was due to fly to Perth in the mid-afternoon, the officials said.

Police have said Thompson has a long history of child abuse charges in several countries possibly over many decades.

Thai police also accused him of molesting children in southern Thailand.

Thompson had faced prison in Australia on paedophile charges, but fled to south-east Asia, where he travelled on multiple forged passports.

Thompson's departure came just hours before Thai police were to deport a 41-year-old US teacher, John Mark Karr, who was arrested on Thursday over the murder of American child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey 10 years ago.

Adios boys... enjoy your flights.

Don't forget to write...

Let us know how you guys are getting on in your new accomadations, ok?

Alright then, I hate long good-byes...

so I'll just say...

BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :

karr4.jpg

American John Mark Karr sits next to a window in business class in a plane at Bangkok international airport on his way to Los Angeles Sunday Aug. 20, 2006. Karr will face kidnapping, murder and sexual assault charges in the JonBenet Ramsey case. (AP Photo)

post-9005-1156080827.gifpost-9005-1156080827.gifpost-9005-1156080827.gifpost-9005-1156080827.gifpost-9005-1156080827.gifpost-14979-1125040445_thumb.jpg

thompson44.jpg

Australian Paul Thompson speaks to journalists at Bangkok's Immigration Police office August 15, 2006. The Australian man, not allowed to leave his country because he is on a list of child-sex offenders, has been caught in Thailand and will be deported, Thai police said on Tuesday. Thompson, 57, who 'has committed dozens of sexual offences' on Australian children over 'several decades', was arrested on Friday while leaving for Cambodia to renew his Thai visa, immigration police said in a statement. (REUTERS)

post-9005-1156080889.gifpost-9005-1156080889.gifpost-9005-1156080889.gifpost-9005-1156080889.gifpost-9005-1156080889.gif

Edited by sriracha john
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I found a much more accurate article on Karr and Thailand without the sensationalism we've been seeing. What this NZ guy says about Thailand is pretty accurate. He called Karr's room grungy which is a decent description of an $8 room in BKK. Anyway enjoy the read:

that one is even worse. pure and utter drivel. i doubt he spent more than two minutes in that area of town and certainly not in any of the rooms at the blooms. still, why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

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I found a much more accurate article on Karr and Thailand without the sensationalism we've been seeing. What this NZ guy says about Thailand is pretty accurate. He called Karr's room grungy which is a decent description of an $8 room in BKK. Anyway enjoy the read:

that one is even worse. pure and utter drivel. i doubt he spent more than two minutes in that area of town and certainly not in any of the rooms at the blooms. still, why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

Those $8 rooms at the Blooms are top class for sure...LOL

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and now that Thailand has mopped up the putrid vomit stains these guys made in the country

mopping.jpg

there's nothing left for to do, but

lightsoff.jpg

and as they are now no longer Thai-related, we could strongly consider this thread on John

:o

the same as the one on Paul is already

:D

Edited by sriracha john
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Anyway, I have a feeling that this guy is not the murderer. Yes, he looks the part, but something just does not seem right about the whole thing and his story....I'm pretty sure he is guilty of all those things that he was charged with , but I don't think he was anywhere near the Ramsey home that night. Maybe he was so obssesed with the Jon Benet murder that he actually thought that he was the actual killer - He must have gone out of his way to get as much information as possible about the case, so much so that he became a good suspect..

I, like many Americans, followed this story since the night of her murder, ( It was a BIG deal here ) and there are still many questions left unanswered about the case, like why was the ransom note found at the scene in Patsy Ramey's handwriting? Why was there no footprints at all outside in the newly fallen snow outside the house, and why the Ramsey's never took a lie detector test, among other things...

And I also find it strange that after all this time, they finally find the suspect in Bangkok. A pedophile - in Thailand of all places? What a surprise! Just too convienient a story , if you ask me - it sounds like something you would see on a bad episode of "Cold Case". I would believe the story more if they found him in Latvia, or Uraguay, or even Indonesia. This thing looks similar to how they suddenly found the killer of the Lindberg Baby, out of the blue. Remember that one?

I guess we'll have to wait for the DNA tests to really be sure now....But then again, DNA as evidence was not a factor in winning that other high profile murder case...

Speaking of which, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if next we find out that OJ is really innocent, and that Nicole and Ron Goldman's real killer has finally been found in Phuket as a scuba diving instructor...

PLEASE......let's don't spread this 'rumor' as the truth. The ransom note WAS NOT verified to be in Patsy's handwriting. Here are the facts not the rumor. The handwriting experts could not EXCLUDE her and say POSITIVELY that she DID NOT WRITE THE NOTE. However, they could also not say that SHE WROTE THE NOTE. When pressed the experts admitted that if handwriting samples were taken from every American there would be MILLIONS who could NOT be excluded from having written the ransom note.........right along with Patsy.

Yes,I'll grant you that Patsy MAY NOT BE the author of the note, but she is still a very strong suspect ( even now! )

John Ramesy and Burke ( John Benet's brother ) were excluded by the six handwriting experts hired ( two from the Ramseys, three from the police investigator onthe case )as the authors of the note, but not Patsy. They , like you said, could not positively say whether or not it was her handwriting. On a scale of one to five, with five eliminating someone from suspicion as the author of the ransom note, the experts placed Patsy Ramsey at 4.5 to 4.0....

But if the handwriting was disguised... Then....

BTW, also, the experts never examined the original ransom note...

Yes, the ransom note is one of the longest ransom notes recorded in the history of kidnapping cases. Yet is still the key to solving this case. And I doubt that this John Mark wrote it.

Now if take a look..

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

I've never believed either parent was involved in killing the little girl.

......And I bet you also believe that OJ is innocent too? :D

You lose that bet :D I've believed from the start that OJ was the killer. A mountain of evidence; he was there that night, his car full of victims blood stains, his hand was cut (by a broken glass OJ says.....yea right) , he had beat her before on many occasions, he had motive, on and on.

Sarcasm bet I'm afraid....To be payed in to you in Sacrasm money...

Speaking of which, It's a given that with lots of money, you can obviously get away with murder in America, and I'm afraid, most places in the world..

You just don't get it. So Patsy is 4.0 to 4.5 on a scale of 5? Wow.......so would MILLIONS of other Americans be if they were tested. How would you like to be convicted on a 'stat' that says there is a 80-90% chance you wrote a ransom note? :D If I'm ever arrested for a crime I hope you're not on the jury! :o

Obviously I guess I don't get it... :D

Ok, so then, what are the chances of those MILLIONS of Americans with that percentage of authorship of the Ramsom note being at the Ramsey house during the time of the murder?

I'm not saying that Patsy Ramesy is totally the killer, but I am still not convinced that she had nothing to do with the crime, unlike you seem to.

As for being convicted on just the Ransom note, I said that it was key to solving the case, not for being the only thing for conviction.

Speaking of me being on your Jury, If I do feel that the evidence warrants it, yes, I'll definitely say that you're 100 percent guilty! :D

You say, "But if the handwriting was disguised... Then....". Yea, and IF pigs had wings they could fly :D if, if, if, if,............here's my 'if'......if the Boulder Police weren't so incompetent this case might have already been solved. Yea, you're right....Patsy remains a very strong suspect.....by the silly Boulder cops :D who botched the case from the start.

Point of the matter is, that the chances of this John Karr being the Killer is probably the same, if not less, than either or both of the Parents...You can't lay the blame totally on the Boulder Police Department regarding the stalling of this case.

But obviously no matter what I say will change your views on this case, so "LoveDaBlues ", so I guess you're right.

The Rameys had absolultely nothing to do with the death of John Benet, and that this John Mark Kerr is obviously the Killer.

:D

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