Editorial: Thailand remains on treacherous grounds

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Thailand remains on treacherous grounds
The Nation

Yingluck's impeachment resolves nothing in terms of democracy's future

BANGKOK: -- What’s next for Thailand? The recurring question arises once again following yesterday's political developments. Whether Yingluck Shinawatra was to be impeached or not mattered little because Thailand was facing an extremely tough situation either way.

The issue of corruption versus democracy has always been the crux of our political crisis, leading to coups, street violence and parliamentary turmoil.

The interim legislature's impeachment ruling, what preceded it and what its consequences will be are all part of a national conflict over which should come first - unobstructed democracy or corruption-free politics.

Thaksin Shinawatra let his then-spouse buy a government-auctioned property. His sister Yingluck supervised a rice price-pledging scheme that triggered a storm of warnings and led to countless controversial practices. But they both won democratic elections in landslides.

Do the Ratchadapisek land scandal and the damage caused by the rice fiasco pale in comparison with coups and the suspension of democracy? Let's set aside that debate for the moment. If we are to let bygones be bygones, we will remember that Thai democracy has never been truly sound, the result of many factors both controllable and uncontrollable.

"Unconstitutional power", a term mooted a long time ago by Thaksin, appears to be uncontrollable. We can't do anything about it if the military keeps seizing power, so to speak.

Let's forget about finding ways to punish coup-makers. We can't prevent them from barging through the doors, but we certainly can avoid giving them an excuse for doing so. Opportunistic men in uniform might be "uncontrollable", but there are controllable factors determining the health of our democracy.

If politics were clean and accountable, there would be one less pretext for a coup. Street protests might be aimed at actually safeguarding the wellbeing of the people rather than feeding political ambition.

How can we end the vicious cycle of coups, corruption and uprisings? Advocates of democracy must stop blaming others - many of them uncontrollable - and start reforming it. The best shield against "uncontrollable" opportunism would be a clean and honest government that doesn't hesitate to remove a minister at the slightest hint of scandal, that puts the right persons in the right jobs, that shows responsibility when policies fail, and that shuns vested interests and nepotism.

Is it within our control to have that kind of governments? Yes, it is.

It's up to the next civilian government to achieve this goal.

A corrupt government, or one that's focused primarily on denigrating its opponents, would only take the country back to Square One, no matter how clean the election or how large its margin of victory.

Democracy must serve honestly, transparently and empathetically - lest dictatorship step in to serve in its stead. It must show that it can do the job better in terms of efficiency and accountability.

An old Thai adage assures us that good people who fall into turbulent water will never be swept away, that those engulfed by fire will never be burned.

Surely the same applies to true democracy, no matter how roiled the current or how hot the flame.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thailand-remains-on-treacherous-grounds-30252554.html


-- The Nation 2015-01-24

[harada]

Some good points here.

[Roadman]

Good editorial and totally agree. Stop bitching about the Army having to come in and clean up the mess when it is created by criminal politicians. Clean up the corrupt politicians and the patronage system that gets them there and the Army then have no mess to clean up and no excuses to coup.

[noitom]

Keep applying these "old" Thai adages.

[craigt3365]

Hard to fix the corruption till you reform the police. With no enforcement, why worry about breaking the law??

[comeondoit]

It is basically a matter of respecting the opposition. No majority is well doing if they do not respect opposit ideas and try to find compromises serving the majority of the people including the "Others"

[lewy67]

Corruption exists uncontrolled in the executive, legislative and judicial arms of government. One can not be reformed or purged without the other. To me the politicians come and go and the real power and ultimate corruption has been and remains in the public service and civil administration - defense, interior, land, education, transport and others. How can this ingrained culture of corruption be tackled and smashed when it is the beneficiaries of corruption, who control government now, and who have no intention of relinquishing power in the foreseeable future, who will be responsible for the reform? There is only one way and if it ever happens it won't be lead by anyone who is part of the existing system and it won't be pretty.

Edited January 24, 2015 by lewy67

[reptile91602]

unobstructed democracy or corruption-free politics. I'll take corruption-free politics anytime. Wish the US would get on board here and at home!

[marcusd]

So some sense at last. STOP STATING THE Shin Governments were fair and ELECTED governments. It was a government that bought the populace.

is that fair?

[anon467367354]

Until there is a real rule of law nothing will change here. You can't have one set of rules for the rulers and another for the subjects.

There is nothing here to discourage the rulers from being corrupt, it's actually the reason they get into politics.

There is nothing democratic about vote buying, until they actually understand what a democracy is, there will never be any.

Inequality is the main cause of most countries troubles, and Thailand thrives on it and even promotes it, worship the "haves" over the "have nots".

Now the trend seems to be control, register all SIM cards and now they have the right to search your property including your computer without a warrant.

Interesting how this is all happening as the US pushes for control and censorship over the Internet. If you pursue spying on your people, you the ones spying

will open the doors to being spied on.

Thailand seems to be slipping under the control of foreign powers, aka the UN, the skies have been poisoned with chem trails, the water has been poisoned

with fluoride, (Thai children lowest IQ in the region, it's working as planned) the food has been poisoned with GMO's, mandatory vaccine schedules, and the list goes on.

I fear what just happened in France is going to happen here as the Thai government system is not stable and there already is a Muslim issue going on in the south.

It would not be difficult for the CIA to really screw things up. The Thai just don't know who they are playing with.

[chainarong]

Nothing so far gives cause to think that nothing has changed, they remain the same, unless all the players are banned for life from politics a repeat dosage is guaranteed to cause plenty of heartburn in the future , all this Junta has done so far is place themselves in a position where in the future they might have a repeat of 1992, they haven't cured the problem , you will probably find this week end that the hate for the elite establishment is just as it has always been since 06, to think otherwise is foolish.

[chainarong]

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Good editorial and totally agree. Stop bitching about the Army having to come in and clean up the mess when it is created by criminal politicians. Clean up the corrupt politicians and the patronage system that gets them there and the Army then have no mess to clean up and no excuses to coup.

You appear to not know very much about the Thai Military otherwise you wouldn't be so happy to have them clean up anything.

[heybruce]

So some sense at last. STOP STATING THE Shin Governments were fair and ELECTED governments. It was a government that bought the populace.

is that fair?

No, it's naive. The Yingluck government was elected in an internationally monitored election that was declared legitimate. If by "bought" you mean populist policies, then remember that populism is in the eye of the beholder, and populism is common in all democracies. Corruption should be dealt with by courts and incompetence by elections, neither by military coups.

Finally, lets stop pretending that the military is not corrupt or that it is interested in eliminating corrupt practices that benefit it and those the military favors.

[heybruce]

unobstructed democracy or corruption-free politics. I'll take corruption-free politics anytime. Wish the US would get on board here and at home!

Great. Why don't you go look for a society with corruption free politics. Be sure and write when you've found it.

Until then, I prefer to keep military coups out of the US, and hope for a quick and permanent end to military government in Thailand.

[Ozziepat]

Sigh.

The answer is not to vainly hope for the magical appearance of wise, honest, caring people to populate all the important government and bureaucratic positions forever - because that is never going to happen. Never. The answer is twofold, and it is not an easy one or one without flaws:

1. Accept the reality of human nature with all of its imperfections, and

2. Construct a system of government that: can function at least fairly efficiently, honestly and openly; is neither destructive nor oppressive; can remain stable over a long period of time - in spite of human nature.

That's it. That's the overriding objective; and if a democratic system is chosen, then it must satisfy that objective. Any charter condition, appointment, organization decision... that does not clearly support that objective is one step closer to failure and dissolution of the government, again.

[gandalf12]

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unobstructed democracy or corruption-free politics. I'll take corruption-free politics anytime. Wish the US would get on board here and at home!

Definitely dont want the USA getting involved here, they cant look after their own country

[reptile91602]

I didn't mean for the US to get involved here. My misstatement. Yes the US pretty much screws up everything they touch. Unfortunately they are heavily involved here already and that is part of the problem. They keep pushing for a new election when it is not posible here.

The military is Thailand's only short term hope to straighten some of the issues out. Thailand is just lucky who it is that took over as he , though not perfect, is sincere in cleaning up the crap here, not like Egypt and so many other military and supposed elected officials that are military backed.

Obviously Thailand is a mess in so many ways but they have some temporary hope with the general, just not in every direction.

The US , on the other hand is, over time even more f.ed up than Thailand. Much less concern for the rights of its people and more for the 1%.

Obama's efforts were nearly meaningless. He did some temporary stop gap measures but they will crumble and even moreso with a Republican run government.It is all about feeding the rich and starving the middle and low imcome saps.

[lovetotravel]

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unobstructed democracy or corruption-free politics. I'll take corruption-free politics anytime. Wish the US would get on board here and at home!

Definitely dont want the USA getting involved here, they cant look after their own country

The USA maybe not be the best for running a country, but they are FAR from the worst. But yes, don't want them meddling here. Nor any other foreign power. Most of which can't properly look after their own country either.

[LivinLOS]

This article seems to make the assertion that the army is a true 3rd actor in between 2 political machines.. it is not, the army and the judiciary are staunchly supporting one side of this.. They dont dissolve governments when suthep runs his palm oil scam costing billions and benefiting his powerful southern families.. The army stands by while yellow demonstrators close an airport (in fact not merely stand by but hamstring the police from removing them by threatening a coup if there is any conflict) yet has the snipers out killing reds doing a similar thing. The EC throws elections only when they know the Dems wont win them.

Hence this is saying one side has to operate clean politics, while the supported side gets a blind eye.. The 'uncontrollable actors' are not a 3rd party but intrinsically linked with removing the only party to win elections 5 times in a row from power.

[reptile91602]

It is true the US isn't the worst, It's just that much of asian governments are more respected by their people mainly because asian people actually have a respect for authority where little of the rest of the world does and rightfully so.

Even before the coup I think Thailand was a better government than the states mailnly because unlike the states they were openly corrupt, everyone knew it and instead of a right wing party always thinking of ways to take away from the poor, Thailand is always trying to give better service to the poor , not that they do very much but they actually think about it and they have better roads. When I travel I always view a county by the quality of their roads. Check out Nepal. Really terrible democracy , really bad roads.

[sprq]

Good editorial and totally agree. Stop bitching about the Army having to come in and clean up the mess when it is created by criminal politicians. Clean up the corrupt politicians and the patronage system that gets them there and the Army then have no mess to clean up and no excuses to coup.

You're forgetting something rather important: the armed forces are as corrupt as the politicians or anybody else. Absurdly bloated, grossly inefficient, repeatedly involved in grossly inflated equipment deals, etc etc - who are they to clean anything up?

[wabothai]

Excellent editorial.

[ratcatcher]

"A corrupt government, or one that's focused primarily on denigrating its opponents, would only take the country back to Square One, no matter how clean the election or how large its margin of victory."

would only take the country back to "Square One," Somehow I don't think that was a typo. Old Square One, as he is sometimes called has been wanting to get the country back for years, but yesterday his plans were temporarily thwarted due to his sister's red card.

[wabothai]

The truth will hurt, no way to escape !!!

[djlest]

Unfortunately Thainess and Democracy don't really like each other! keep dreaming...

[jcisco]

Yes good points, just surprises me that there was or is no political parties pushing these sorts of doctrine and selling it the people. Some strong ideology that stands for something real is missing in that politics, and yet it seems that huge numbers of people are there with a great desire for inclusion. And yet, they are left disenfranchised by their past hopes in representation, they will still prefer it over taken representation from the military or the elites complex.

Out there must be some people or a someone who can rally the country and usher in some social change that is meaningful, it could be easy as it to sell facebook and line and all that crap to the people.

meh good luck

[Floater 7]

A lot of good posts here. Well meaning and thoughtful.

But solutions are becoming so hard to find. All the nations in the current worldwide landscape are in trouble. Most caused by over population and dwindling resources. If man himself doesn't correct in some ghastly way, nature surely will.

Seems a bleak future unfortunately. Unless all nations work together for the common good, for all mankind. And I just can't see that happening.

But can easily see a great cataclysm.

Of correction. Maybe too pessimistic here, but human nature being what it is...just hoping for the best.

[hanuman2543]

Good editorial and totally agree. Stop bitching about the Army having to come in and clean up the mess when it is created by criminal politicians. Clean up the corrupt politicians and the patronage system that gets them there and the Army then have no mess to clean up and no excuses to coup.

Isn't the Army a big part of the problem of corruption ? Isn' t the Army a prime example how the patronage system in this country works? Clean up the mess created by criminal politicians lol.

[marcusd]

So some sense at last. STOP STATING THE Shin Governments were fair and ELECTED governments. It was a government that bought the populace.

is that fair?

No, it's naive. The Yingluck government was elected in an internationally monitored election that was declared legitimate. If by "bought" you mean populist policies, then remember that populism is in the eye of the beholder, and populism is common in all democracies. Corruption should be dealt with by courts and incompetence by elections, neither by military coups.

Finally, lets stop pretending that the military is not corrupt or that it is interested in eliminating corrupt practices that benefit it and those the military favors.

I never stated anything about the military and yes I would agree with you.

International monitoring is meaningless when 500 baht is pre delivered to all and sundry to buy their votes as was the case. We can warble on but lets stop fooling ourselves. That government would have totally destroyed this nation. TOTALLY! The military will only set it back a few centuries