Thai opinion: No country for old men - and reform must tackle that too

[webfact]

STREET WISE
No country for old men - and reform must tackle that too
Achara Deboonme

BANGKOK: -- Bangkok is quieter than usual. Despite the larger number of vehicles, traffic is light after 10pm. On weekends, shoppers at malls start to flee home from 8pm.

If that means Bangkokians are spending less money, that's good news, for themselves and the country.

A report in the Korea Herald last week spooked me a bit. It was about the country's increasing number of elderly and their financial health. The report was based on a survey by the Korea Institute for Health and Social Affairs, which showed that almost half (48 per cent) of South Koreans aged 65 or older were living below the poverty line.

In South Korea, where decades of extraordinary economic growth have lifted millions out of absolute poverty, the poverty line is defined in relative terms as half the annual median household income. Koreans aged 65 or older accounted for 12.6 per cent of the total population in 2013, and the proportion of the elderly is forecast to exceed 20 per cent by 2026 and 50 per cent by 2100.

Given that the average poverty rate for all Koreans is 13.7 per cent, or about 6.88 million, this means that nearly half of them are elderly and without jobs to support themselves.

What's even more shocking is that, according to Statistics Korea, fewer Koreans think it is their responsibility to support their ageing parents financially. In 1998, almost 90 per cent agreed that family members should take care of and support their ageing parents. By 2012 that figure had dropped to just 33.2 per cent.

In Thailand we face a very similar situation, posing the very big question of how poorer elderly Thais will support themselves in the near future.

As in South Korea, Thailand's elderly population is burgeoning. The number of Thais aged 60 or older was 12 per cent, or about 8.4 million, in 2010.

A survey by the National Statistical Office in 2007 showed that only 201,348 individuals in that age group held bachelor degrees or higher. The majority, 4.8 million, had only completed elementary education. Without education, most of them worked in the agricultural sector, earning the minimum wage and barely having anything left over to save.

That helps explain why some 80,000 elderly persons without any social safety net whatsoever flocked to the Social Security Office last month to join the new pension scheme, designed for workers in unofficial sectors and the elderly. Without employers, they are entitled to Bt30-Bt50 from the government for every Bt70-Bt100 they contribute to the pension fund.

Will this scheme remain helpful when the number of Thais aged 60 or older rises to 12.6 million in 2020?

Indeed, this issue deserves attention from policymakers.

In his statement to the National Legislative Assembly in September, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, a retired general whose knowledge still helps earn him an income, mentioned policy plans for the ageing society. To safeguard quality of life, there will be assistance for the elderly at home, nursing homes, and hospitals, with cooperation from the private sector, community and families. There will also be a new fiscal system for the elderly.

It remains to be seen whether these plans will be put into action. Right now, all we all know is that all newborns will get a gift. Next in the queue could be the elderly.

For now, I have some sympathy with the National Reform Council and the Constitution Drafting Committee. Both were formed under very unusual political conditions, requiring that their focus is mainly on reconciliation and reforms. Though many of their members are in the right age group, our ageing society has barely had a mention.

Checking the NRC web page - http:/tinyurl.com/k5awumf - which drew 45,656 visitors since October 2, I found just one link referring to the elderly issue. Unfortunately, there was no detail of their discussion.

Might we expect the CDC to assure us that when we grow old, our quality of life will be better?

Well, its web page - http://tinyurl

.com/lot78sh - demonstrates it is busy with more important issues like the minimum qualification for a prime minister, and reconciliation. These do indeed affect all Thais, but I guess they don't interest all of us, given that the page has attracted only 3,098 visitors since November.

Apologies if my research seems a bit scratchy. Perhaps it would be better if all the available schemes for the elderly appeared as often on TV and radio as the "happiness" songs.

I, for one, want to learn more about such schemes. No matter what our political scene is in the future, Thailand will still be home to millions of older people. Our situation must not be permitted to slide into what we saw in the 2007 Hollywood movie "No Country for Old Men".

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/No-country-for-old-men--and-reform-must-tackle-tha-30252725.html


-- The Nation 2015-01-27

[noitom]

All that Thai dribble to come around to making a non sensical comparison to a hollywood movie.

[Somtamnication]

Yep, I'm screwed!

[NongKhaiKid]

So people spending less is good news for them and the country ?

What about the national economy and all the extra money Thais could use to ' splurge ' on big ticket items because of the drop in the world oil price ?

[ChrisY1]

Apart from Scandinavian countries, aged pensions are usually on a par, or below the poverty line......

[PatOngo]

So people spending less is good news for them and the country ?

What about the national economy and all the extra money Thais could use to ' splurge ' on big ticket items because of the drop in the world oil price ?

Never mind....the slack will be taken up by the 24 squillion quality tourists that TAT are expecting.

[chainarong]

It is horses for courses every country has a tail to tell , the same applies in wealthy western countries , I wouldn't think that seniors on the pension in OZ where on clover ,not with spiraling prices in every direction and a government hell bent on removing fee's and help , the last report suggested 1 out of 5 households were out of money before payday and that's the working class, so no country is good to live in if you are a pensioner, except those on pensions and are able to live in a cheaper country , lucky them

[mca]

Stay tuned for next week's installment " Terminator 2 Rise of the Machines- Is Thailand ready for integration into ASEAN's technology blueprint post 2015?"

[NongKhaiKid]

It is horses for courses every country has a tail to tell , the same applies in wealthy western countries , I wouldn't think that seniors on the pension in OZ where on clover ,not with spiraling prices in every direction and a government hell bent on removing fee's and help , the last report suggested 1 out of 5 households were out of money before payday and that's the working class, so no country is good to live in if you are a pensioner, except those on pensions and are able to live in a cheaper country , lucky them

Hasn't OZ taken care of a VIP, very important pensioner, by giving Phil the Greek the highest award ?

What a deserving case

[ggt]

Actually, Thailand is already no country for old men...but for grumpy old fat retired foreigners...that is another story...ATM machines are still in demand here...

[CUNJU]

Not to knock the Thai People, but I see everynight the same Thai Men and a few Women sitting at sidewalk cafes and stores drinking into the late night, shouldn't they be putting a little money in the bank instead of the Leo coffers!

[marko kok prong]

What on earth does the article have to do with the movie which was about a guy who found drug money and was chased by a physco hit man,did the writer just like the sound of it?

[siampolee]

marko kok prong post # 12

What on earth does the article have to do with the movie which was about a guy who found drug money and was chased by a physco hit man,did the writer just like the sound of it?

The connection is the fact that the comments you made are all too near the reality of life here.

[trogers]

They may be old. They may be lowly educated. But they are the owners of farmland, and caregivers to grandchildren thrown unto their laps.

[billd766]

Both my 74 year old FIL and 69 year old MIL are receivers of the Thai state pension.

They receive the magnificent sum of 600 thb (each mind you) every month from the government to live on.

I think my FIL wastes his on wine, women and song though he is a bad singer, and I am sure that my MIL has a toyboy tucked away somewhere.

They may also be living a little beyond their means if it is true.

[elgordo38]

What on earth does the article have to do with the movie which was about a guy who found drug money and was chased by a physco hit man,did the writer just like the sound of it?

You guessed it Toyota. If I get terminally ill here I will need lots of cheap drugs for pain and in the end maybe a hit man to put me out of my misery.

[elgordo38]

Both my 74 year old FIL and 69 year old MIL are receivers of the Thai state pension.

They receive the magnificent sum of 600 thb (each mind you) every month from the government to live on.

I think my FIL wastes his on wine, women and song though he is a bad singer, and I am sure that my MIL has a toyboy tucked away somewhere.

They may also be living a little beyond their means if it is true.

They must have gotten a raise last I heard was 500 bahts a month and you had to go someplace to sign and pick it up. Guess they wanted to make sure you were still alive. They did not want to hand out this exhorbitant sum to someone who had snuffed it.

[elgordo38]

They may be old. They may be lowly educated. But they are the owners of farmland, and caregivers to grandchildren thrown unto their laps.

Amen brother. They are the backbone of this country along with the females who bear the children and then watch their butterfly partners fly off looking for nector somewhere else. They really put the male species to shame here. This makes me treat my Thai g/f fairly.

[smotherb]

I am sure this situation exists in most Western countries too. I know the US is filled with aged people who have worked all their lives and have only social security upon which to rely. Americans, simply do not save. The major investment most Americans make is home ownership, and many Americans never own a home. The elderly homeowners have whatever equity exists in their homes, minus the second and third mortgages.

[binjalin]

what about old women?

[cup-O-coffee]

They may be old. They may be lowly educated. But they are the owners of farmland, and caregivers to grandchildren thrown unto their laps.

Amen brother. They are the backbone of this country along with the females who bear the children and then watch their butterfly partners fly off looking for nector somewhere else. They really put the male species to shame here. This makes me treat my Thai g/f fairly.

And a lot of those children the females bear happen to be males. Those females raise those males. True yes?

Tell me... how exactly do you arrive at "putting the male species to shame here" from the fact that the females raise those shameful males until they "butterfly" away to survive somewhere else? All credit to the females for raising their darling little male children, yes?

As far as the OP is concerned, the willingness to help someone is as problematic as someone willing to help themselves, and/or to be responsible with the kind of help they receive instead of pissing it away. Add to that the younger generations right now pissing it away...

It never changes here and never will. Me me me me, mine mine mine mine, blame blame blame blame.

[cup-O-coffee]

what about old women?

What about basketball?

The article is intentionally focused on old men. Is that alright to do that?

[trogers]

It is horses for courses every country has a tail to tell , the same applies in wealthy western countries , I wouldn't think that seniors on the pension in OZ where on clover ,not with spiraling prices in every direction and a government hell bent on removing fee's and help , the last report suggested 1 out of 5 households were out of money before payday and that's the working class, so no country is good to live in if you are a pensioner, except those on pensions and are able to live in a cheaper country , lucky them

Seen the movie 'Soylent Green'? Perhaps we are moving towards such a society.

[Jonmarleesco]

Never thought of myself as elderly ... until now. Does that make those between 40 and 60 middlery; those between 20 and 40 youngerly ... and those in their teens weanerly?

[Jonmarleesco]

They may be old. They may be lowly educated. But they are the owners of farmland, and caregivers to grandchildren thrown unto their laps.

Amen brother. They are the backbone of this country along with the females who bear the children and then watch their butterfly partners fly off looking for nector somewhere else. They really put the male species to shame here. This makes me treat my Thai g/f fairly.

And a lot of those children the females bear happen to be males. Those females raise those males. True yes?

Tell me... how exactly do you arrive at "putting the male species to shame here" from the fact that the females raise those shameful males until they "butterfly" away to survive somewhere else? All credit to the females for raising their darling little male children, yes?

As far as the OP is concerned, the willingness to help someone is as problematic as someone willing to help themselves, and/or to be responsible with the kind of help they receive instead of pissing it away. Add to that the younger generations right now pissing it away...

It never changes here and never will. Me me me me, mine mine mine mine, blame blame blame blame.

Are you interpreting the butterflies as the kids? Because I'm pretty sure Elgordo wasn't referring to them.

[tonbridgebrit]

"In South Korea, where decades of extraordinary economic growth have lifted millions out of absolute poverty, the poverty line is defined in relative terms as half the annual median household income. Koreans aged 65 or older accounted for 12.6 per cent of the total population in 2013, and the proportion of the elderly is forecast to exceed 20 per cent by 2026 and 50 per cent by 2100."

This is what happens when a country suddenly discovers contraceptives and everybody wants to have less kids. Actually, any country with a low birth-rate will suffer in this way. Yes, nations where the elderly make up more than half the population is the grim reality for many.

Europe and America can import young people to do the work that needs to be done in society, but what about the third world countries, the developing countries ? Where are they going to import young people from ?

And with negative population growth, we'ill eventually see people becoming extinct, totally wiped out. So if war or pollution does not drive us to extinction, well, contraceptives will. We really need to think about New Family Planning.

[flyingdoc]

Turn to Anti-aging Medicine, live longer and enjoy some extra lifespan !

[trogers]

"In South Korea, where decades of extraordinary economic growth have lifted millions out of absolute poverty, the poverty line is defined in relative terms as half the annual median household income. Koreans aged 65 or older accounted for 12.6 per cent of the total population in 2013, and the proportion of the elderly is forecast to exceed 20 per cent by 2026 and 50 per cent by 2100."

This is what happens when a country suddenly discovers contraceptives and everybody wants to have less kids. Actually, any country with a low birth-rate will suffer in this way. Yes, nations where the elderly make up more than half the population is the grim reality for many.

Europe and America can import young people to do the work that needs to be done in society, but what about the third world countries, the developing countries ? Where are they going to import young people from ?

And with negative population growth, we'ill eventually see people becoming extinct, totally wiped out. So if war or pollution does not drive us to extinction, well, contraceptives will. We really need to think about New Family Planning.

Not every country can solve the problem of shrinking population with net migration due to racial bigotry.

After 2050, only countries in Africa and India have a growing population. Would Japan or South Korea bring in shiploads of them and have a foreign family living along every street?

[tonbridgebrit]

"In South Korea, where decades of extraordinary economic growth have lifted millions out of absolute poverty, the poverty line is defined in relative terms as half the annual median household income. Koreans aged 65 or older accounted for 12.6 per cent of the total population in 2013, and the proportion of the elderly is forecast to exceed 20 per cent by 2026 and 50 per cent by 2100."

This is what happens when a country suddenly discovers contraceptives and everybody wants to have less kids. Actually, any country with a low birth-rate will suffer in this way. Yes, nations where the elderly make up more than half the population is the grim reality for many.

Europe and America can import young people to do the work that needs to be done in society, but what about the third world countries, the developing countries ? Where are they going to import young people from ?

And with negative population growth, we'ill eventually see people becoming extinct, totally wiped out. So if war or pollution does not drive us to extinction, well, contraceptives will. We really need to think about New Family Planning.

Not every country can solve the problem of shrinking population with net migration due to racial bigotry.

After 2050, only countries in Africa and India have a growing population. Would Japan or South Korea bring in shiploads of them and have a foreign family living along every street?

Yes, I agree, lots of countries don't want to import foreigners. Japan and South Korea are going to have to increase their birth-rates if they want to prevent their populations constantly getting smaller. Yes, japan doesn't want to import foreigners.

If we look at Hong Kong, anybody will say that people in Hong Kong are actually a bit racist, they also don't like 'foreigners'. But Hong Kong is allowed to import workers and wives from China, and that's how Hong Kong has solved it's population problem. And Singapore, Singaporean men (the Chinese ones) are allowed to go to China and get a Chinese wife there, hence, the issue of Singaporean women (the Chinese ones) refusing to have lots (or any) of children is solved.

But this doesn't take away the issue of : eventually, mass use of contraceptives (allowing people to have sex without having chldren) might lead to the extinction of the human race.

[trogers]

"In South Korea, where decades of extraordinary economic growth have lifted millions out of absolute poverty, the poverty line is defined in relative terms as half the annual median household income. Koreans aged 65 or older accounted for 12.6 per cent of the total population in 2013, and the proportion of the elderly is forecast to exceed 20 per cent by 2026 and 50 per cent by 2100."

This is what happens when a country suddenly discovers contraceptives and everybody wants to have less kids. Actually, any country with a low birth-rate will suffer in this way. Yes, nations where the elderly make up more than half the population is the grim reality for many.

Europe and America can import young people to do the work that needs to be done in society, but what about the third world countries, the developing countries ? Where are they going to import young people from ?

And with negative population growth, we'ill eventually see people becoming extinct, totally wiped out. So if war or pollution does not drive us to extinction, well, contraceptives will. We really need to think about New Family Planning.

Not every country can solve the problem of shrinking population with net migration due to racial bigotry.

After 2050, only countries in Africa and India have a growing population. Would Japan or South Korea bring in shiploads of them and have a foreign family living along every street?

Yes, I agree, lots of countries don't want to import foreigners. Japan and South Korea are going to have to increase their birth-rates if they want to prevent their populations constantly getting smaller. Yes, japan doesn't want to import foreigners.

If we look at Hong Kong, anybody will say that people in Hong Kong are actually a bit racist, they also don't like 'foreigners'. But Hong Kong is allowed to import workers and wives from China, and that's how Hong Kong has solved it's population problem. And Singapore, Singaporean men (the Chinese ones) are allowed to go to China and get a Chinese wife there, hence, the issue of Singaporean women (the Chinese ones) refusing to have lots (or any) of children is solved.

But this doesn't take away the issue of : eventually, mass use of contraceptives (allowing people to have sex without having chldren) might lead to the extinction of the human race.

I would not worry about the human race going extinct from contraception.

When the cost to raise a family falls low enough compared with income, due to having less people to share the limited natural resources, humans would procreate readily.

Edited January 28, 2015 by trogers