Hits and misses, your bike on the ground

[dave_boo]

Being cited at the scene and being found guilty/liable in court are two very different things.

I also noted 'comparative negligence', as the driver in front can indeed be found to be to some degree liable for what caused the accident. Yes, the general rule is that the driver behind should be at a safe following distance, but the driver in front also has a responsibility to the drivers behind him- even if a driver is following too closely, it's the responsibility of the driver ahead to take note of this and act appropriately.

Every legal site I checked gives the example of brake light failure or stopping in the middle of the road (in the case of a flat tire or other minor problem that doesn't necessitate coming to an immediate stop) as being examples of the driver who was struck from behind being liable.

Not trying to be confrontational, but how many instances of being rear-ended in LOS end up in court? We have one example listed in this thread and that did not proceed that far. Had it and could the poster have one a court case? We don't know because it didn't happen. You know that case law/prices in the west/etc. mean little here, so the fact that were are even disagreeing over it is a bit pointless isn't it?

I will being willing to cede the point that in certain states you may be 100% correct. I can't say definitively otherwise. I can speak from what I know regarding where I lived. As well as what makes sense from a rider/driver point of view.

Note that I am not saying the driver in the front has no responsibility to those behind him; a secured load that will not come off and injures others is not cool.

[RubberSideDown]

Well, you started the disagreement, Dave- all I did was cite an example that showed the driver to the rear isn't always at fault, and you wanted to argue the point. As far as how many of these cases go to court in LOS, it's probably 'zero' as it would likely be settled by insurance companies or privately, even in the case of a fatality. That said, I never mentioned my example being specifically relevant to the Thai system (which it may or may not be) as the poster who brought it up didn't mention Thailand and his comment seemed more general, but, rather, I used it to show that you can't say the driver behind is always 100% in the wrong. In a court case in LOS, though, evidence showing that one driver acted negligently would certainly be admissible and worthy of consideration.

I searched through some legal websites and all said basically the same thing, which was that the driver in front can be found liable in a rear-end collision even in cases where malice (like a brake-check) wasn't an issue. You and I can speak from what we 'know', but we (or at least I) will concede that people in the legal profession have an opinion that counts for more than ours as far as this subject goes, and they formed the basis of my posts.

That's it for me- I'm done with it.

Edited February 8, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[dave_boo]

Well, you started the disagreement, Dave- all I did was cite an example that showed the driver to the rear isn't always at fault, and you wanted to argue the point. As far as how many of these cases go to court in LOS, it's probably 'zero' as it would likely be settled by insurance companies or privately, even in the case of a fatality. That said, I never mentioned my example being specifically relevant to the Thai system (which it may or may not be) as the poster who brought it up didn't mention Thailand and his comment seemed more general, but, rather, it was used to show that you can't say the driver behind is always 100% in the wrong. In a court case in LOS, though, evidence showing that one driver acted negligently would certainly be admissible and worthy of consideration.

I searched through some legal websites and all said basically the same thing, which was that the driver in front can be found liable in a rear-end collision even in cases where malice (like a brake-check) wasn't an issue. You and I can speak from what we 'know', but we (or at least I) will concede that people in the legal profession have an opinion that counts for more than ours as far as this subject goes, and they formed the basis of my posts.

That's it for me- I'm done with it.

[DualSportBiker]

There is a dog horn available. A mate of mine bought one for riding his mountain bike around Thailand. Seems like it works almost without fail - I will try and get the details...

I wear motocross boots - dogs can try and bite them all they want...

OK another one.. Dogs making a bee line for the feet, while riding.. Slow down let them get close then speed away..

The owner does not give a fying hoot.... The dog waits for motorcyclist, then goes after them.. I have noticed the slow down and speed up.

I think everyone on the street knows the dog and area and we make a conscious effort to look for the Feet chaser...

Years ago, a dog chased and intercepted and somehow got in between the back of the front wheel and I ran over him... The dog cried like heck.. not sure where I hit him.. Did not stick about..

Any suggestions on Dog avoidance trick... Forget the owners of the dogs.. they don't give a Flying Hoot.

Edited February 8, 2015 by DualSportBiker

[garryjohns]

Gweiloman said

Why is it that we never hear of any of your riding experiences and stories? Do you actually still ride?

Crikey looks like a major demolition has occurred here on this thread whilst i was riding today.

I will not say anything much about AA other than he is indeed a very accomplished rider.I felt his full wrath today after posting about him earlier.My mistake. End Of.

Now to your question about experiences and stories.

From what i have read of your posts you are apparently a late bloomer and you are i guess about my age but only riding 4-5 years.

I understand your exitement at being out riding and good for you.

Better late than never.Motorbiking is a great lifestyle.

But consider myself and my mate both who have been riding some 30 years who came over to sample Thailand in all aspects,riding the North especially.

It is still as much a buzz to be riding everyday as it always was [as we do back home] but wouldn't dream of telling stories about it,Its not a novelty is it?

Its just day to day life.As in eating good food,having good sex,whatever there is no need to tell all.

AA who i know for sure has been riding 50 bloody years [thats a real achievement] fits the same criteria as we.

I saw in the way he rides with passion but that it is just another day in the office for him so to speak

As with us why would he also bother posting on his day to day life?

EDIT Wait till you have 30-50 years riding done and see if you still feel the need to post stories about it.

Edited February 8, 2015 by garryjohns

[Gweiloman]

Gweiloman said

Why is it that we never hear of any of your riding experiences and stories? Do you actually still ride?

Crikey looks like a major demolition has occurred here on this thread whilst i was riding today.

I will not say anything much about AA other than he is indeed a very accomplished rider.I felt his full wrath today after posting about him earlier.My mistake. End Of.

Now to your question about experiences and stories.

From what i have read of your posts you are apparently a late bloomer and you are i guess about my age but only riding 4-5 years.

I understand your exitement at being out riding and good for you.

Better late than never.Motorbiking is a great lifestyle.

But consider myself and my mate both who have been riding some 30 years who came over to sample Thailand in all aspects,riding the North especially.

It is still as much a buzz to be riding everyday as it always was [as we do back home] but wouldn't dream of telling stories about it,Its not a novelty is it?

Its just day to day life.As in eating good food,having good sex,whatever there is no need to tell all.

AA who i know for sure has been riding 50 bloody years [thats a real achievement] fits the same criteria as we.

I saw in the way he rides with passion but that it is just another day in the office for him so to speak

As with us why would he also bother posting on his day to day life?

EDIT Wait till you have 30-50 years riding done and see if you still feel the need to post stories about it.

This is a biking forum. Isn't the idea of a biking forum to talk about biking, including rides, experiences, stories, opinions etc etc? Sure, if you don't want to post anything about your rides or to share your experiences, that's your prerogative. Some of us enjoy reading ride reports of other bikers and we post our own for others to enjoy, or not, as the case may be.

For all we know, AA may or may not be an accomplished rider. He claims to have been an instructor, has more than 700k kms under his belt and has never had an accident. Do you base your conclusion on the basis of having ridden with him or because you were lambasted by him in a PM?

You have been riding for over 30 years. AA, supposedly over 50 years. Rossi - 20 years? Marquez - 10 years? By your reasoning, AA should be MotoGP champion. See the flaw in your logic?

Yes, I have only resumed riding for about 3-4 years after a 30 year absence, whence I was driving cars instead, in Australia, Asia, UK, Europe and the States. I have often asked for advice on this forum from more experienced, accomplished and capable riders. I have attended track days at Bira and KK in order to learn how to ride better and safer. I have also completed Levels 1 & 2 of the CSS school in the UK as well as one of Ron Haslam's track days. I'm continuously trying to improve my riding in the pursuit of entertainment with safety as my first priority. You can't compare a modern bike with that that was built 50 years ago. Riding styles are also different.

You seemed to have joined this forum back in Oct 2014 so you may have missed some of AA's earlier post whereby he feels that it's unnecessary for beginners to know about counter steering and (if I'm not mistaken) that helmets are also unnecessary if you are a capable rider (I guess if I'm merely riding my 110 cc step thru around my mooban at no more than 40 kph, I would probably not bother to don my helmet either).

Over to you.

[DualSportBiker]

In an attempt to return this thread to its primary purpose and snip the sniping in the bud...

I forgot a crash - not so long ago either: riding through the moo ban where my office used to be, I had a cyclist turn right in front of me with absolutely no time to do anything but swear. He was pulling u-turn it turns out - there was no road or house or anything to his right that would make me cautious, or take special note - I was just trundling along at 40 ish and boom, there he was in front of me, then under me, then caught on my foot peg, then hello tarmac.

He was not badly hurt, and was retarded with poor cognitive and almost no ability to speak. His brother rode a bike taxi locally and came over - all went smoothly and the police reminded him he'd been told not to ride after his last accident... no major damage to my bike, but my helmet had done its work and had to be replaced. I took the claim on my insurance - can't be too hard on the lad.

Take nothing for granted now...

[Shurup]

^ Glad it was your helmet and not your head touching the ground. Many here don't even wear anything for trundling through moo ban @ 40 km/h.

[dave_boo]

^ Glad it was your helmet and not your head touching the ground. Many here don't even wear anything for trundling through moo ban @ 40 km/h.

I'm guilty of that also. My only defence is that I assume all other riders are idiots and give them a wide berth. That probably won't help in a situation like what he was posting about though...

[dave_boo]

In an attempt to return this thread to its primary purpose and snip the sniping in the bud...

I forgot a crash - not so long ago either: riding through the moo ban where my office used to be, I had a cyclist turn right in front of me with absolutely no time to do anything but swear. He was pulling u-turn it turns out - there was no road or house or anything to his right that would make me cautious, or take special note - I was just trundling along at 40 ish and boom, there he was in front of me, then under me, then caught on my foot peg, then hello tarmac.

He was not badly hurt, and was retarded with poor cognitive and almost no ability to speak. His brother rode a bike taxi locally and came over - all went smoothly and the police reminded him he'd been told not to ride after his last accident... no major damage to my bike, but my helmet had done its work and had to be replaced. I took the claim on my insurance - can't be too hard on the lad.

Take nothing for granted now...

How can you tell an American is on the bike?

"Oh shit" is the only thing he gets out right before the crash.

[Shurup]

^ Glad it was your helmet and not your head touching the ground. Many here don't even wear anything for trundling through moo ban @ 40 km/h.

I'm guilty of that also. My only defence is that I assume all other riders are idiots and give them a wide berth. That probably won't help in a situation like what he was posting about though...

Same here, I don't wear anything when riding in moo ban and sometimes into a local town 2 km away.

Loud exhaust should have helped, unless the guy was also hearing impaired.

[draftvader]

A mass of off-topic and potentially flaming posts (plus one I had to remove...sadly) have been removed. Please keep it civil and remember we have a word for offering people out by pm.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[1BADDAT]

My closest call I had was a few months ago. I was running late and turned onto Sukhumvit in Pattaya at the Bang Lamung Police station. I ran through the gears and got the bike up to maybe 125. I looked down at my display to check if my indicator was on and when I looked up there was a Fortuner right in front of me doing ~60. I leaned as hard as I could to get around him and was inches from scraping the side of his car. Of course this time I had no jacket or gloves on, just a full face helmet.

Normally when I ride I pay attention 100% to everything that is in front of me. I am always scanning the road for the unexpected (which is expected here). This occurrence was a major wake up call to me and I think about as close as you can get without actually crashing.

[seedy]

Yesterday afternoon. Coming down the West side of the mountain in Cheo San Nat'l park.

Very steep. Road surface broken concrete slabs. Doing about 10 kph.

Lost a little paint, lost a little skin. Bike did not even stop running. Picked it up and down we go.

Damn Sand !

Edited February 11, 2015 by seedy

[Rhys]

My closest call I had was a few months ago. I was running late and turned onto Sukhumvit in Pattaya at the Bang Lamung Police station. I ran through the gears and got the bike up to maybe 125. I looked down at my display to check if my indicator was on and when I looked up there was a Fortuner right in front of me doing ~60. I leaned as hard as I could to get around him and was inches from scraping the side of his car. Of course this time I had no jacket or gloves on, just a full face helmet.

Normally when I ride I pay attention 100% to everything that is in front of me. I am always scanning the road for the unexpected (which is expected here). This occurrence was a major wake up call to me and I think about as close as you can get without actually crashing.

I hear you on this one.. it always seems this way... up on the pegs... A good wake up call.

[WhamBam]

3 in total now. In 7 years or so of riding in Thailand.

1st was in Cha Am. Riding along the beach road. Idiot turns right onto Beach Road from a side road. Luckily I was going relatively slowly. I dropped the bike and almost stood up. A couple of scrapes and a bruised ankle. He did at least stop to make sure I was okay. He left with a flea in his ear. Bike hardly scratched.

2nd was Pattaya. Riding along a gravel road, plenty of dips and larger rocks along the road.. 3 dogs leapt up at me. I veered away. Hit a large lump. Lost control and as I braked hard the brake cable snapped right next to the brake lever. Ended up in thorny bushes. A few scratches but nothing serious. Luckily the bike heading towards me stopped in good time.

Those dogs were gone a few days later. Apparently not the first time they had done this.

3rd was the one in Chonburi I posted about almost a month ago. Front tyre blew out at roughly 60 KMPH. Not a lot I could do really. Tried to control it. Failed. Dropped it onto my right side. Leg first, hip second, shoulder third and finally my head hit the road. I saw either sparks or debris flashing past my head off the helmet.

Bad road rash. Badly broken collar bone - they are talking 4 months before it has healed properly. Great lump on my hip. The helmet did a good job. No injuries there.

As a side note, when the bike was delivered back to the g/f after being repaired it turns out both tyres were flat. I don't know if I ran over anything or not, but sh*t happens sometimes.

[brfsa2]

I've a few minor accidents.

1. In koh chang 6 years ago, just started raining (with all that fresh oil+water), going down hill front brake locked, and me and my g/f down on the floor, had really bad rashes on arms and legs. no bones broken.

2. on a parking lot with contructions, was going faster than I should maybe 20-30km/h, emergency brake, front brake lock, on the floors. Honda click.

3. in traffic jam, guy pulls out in front of me in between cars, I hit him behind with my CB500F, he flies over far and hit the car in front. not even a scratch on my CB500f

4. cold tire, 6 am in the morning, corner too low, slided. only bent the gear shifter and some fairings, scratch. all replaced.

[brfsa2]

3 in total now. In 7 years or so of riding in Thailand.

1st was in Cha Am. Riding along the beach road. Idiot turns right onto Beach Road from a side road. Luckily I was going relatively slowly. I dropped the bike and almost stood up. A couple of scrapes and a bruised ankle. He did at least stop to make sure I was okay. He left with a flea in his ear. Bike hardly scratched.

2nd was Pattaya. Riding along a gravel road, plenty of dips and larger rocks along the road.. 3 dogs leapt up at me. I veered away. Hit a large lump. Lost control and as I braked hard the brake cable snapped right next to the brake lever. Ended up in thorny bushes. A few scratches but nothing serious. Luckily the bike heading towards me stopped in good time.

Those dogs were gone a few days later. Apparently not the first time they had done this.

3rd was the one in Chonburi I posted about almost a month ago. Front tyre blew out at roughly 60 KMPH. Not a lot I could do really. Tried to control it. Failed. Dropped it onto my right side. Leg first, hip second, shoulder third and finally my head hit the road. I saw either sparks or debris flashing past my head off the helmet.

Bad road rash. Badly broken collar bone - they are talking 4 months before it has healed properly. Great lump on my hip. The helmet did a good job. No injuries there.

As a side note, when the bike was delivered back to the g/f after being repaired it turns out both tyres were flat. I don't know if I ran over anything or not, but sh*t happens sometimes.

That looked like a serious accident there, hope you recover soon.

Which bike were you riding, if you dont mind? and which tires?

[brfsa2]

My closest call I had was a few months ago. I was running late and turned onto Sukhumvit in Pattaya at the Bang Lamung Police station. I ran through the gears and got the bike up to maybe 125. I looked down at my display to check if my indicator was on and when I looked up there was a Fortuner right in front of me doing ~60. I leaned as hard as I could to get around him and was inches from scraping the side of his car. Of course this time I had no jacket or gloves on, just a full face helmet.

Normally when I ride I pay attention 100% to everything that is in front of me. I am always scanning the road for the unexpected (which is expected here). This occurrence was a major wake up call to me and I think about as close as you can get without actually crashing.

You must be crazy riding 125Km/h without full gear. Never do that. if you had hit the car you could have lost part of your fingers and hands easily.

whenever I sit on my bike, religiously I have to my leather gloves, riding jacket and leather/riding boots.

[1BADDAT]

Yes I am crazy. I raced a truck to 160 kmh on that exact same spot a month ago on my way to work. Was wearing jacket and gloves that time.

I ride a cbr500 because if I had more power I would use it. I'm crazy...but smart enough to limit the amount of power available to my right hand.

[1BADDAT]

I've a few minor accidents.

1. In koh chang 6 years ago, just started raining (with all that fresh oil+water), going down hill front brake locked, and me and my g/f down on the floor, had really bad rashes on arms and legs. no bones broken.

2. on a parking lot with contructions, was going faster than I should maybe 20-30km/h, emergency brake, front brake lock, on the floors. Honda click.

3. in traffic jam, guy pulls out in front of me in between cars, I hit him behind with my CB500F, he flies over far and hit the car in front. not even a scratch on my CB500f

4. cold tire, 6 am in the morning, corner too low, slided. only bent the gear shifter and some fairings, scratch. all replaced.

Koh chang roads are so fun and so dangerous. I rode them in the dry and was sliding all over the place. Definitely keeps the heart pumping.

In koh chang I almost crashed at the bottom of a long hill with turn at the bottom. Front wheel started sliding and I let go of the brake to regain traction.

I've only been riding for a year and I am amazed how close I have come to laying my bike down. I don't know if it's luck or my bike handling or what but I feel fortunate to have survived without harm.

[WhamBam]

3 in total now. In 7 years or so of riding in Thailand.

1st was in Cha Am. Riding along the beach road. Idiot turns right onto Beach Road from a side road. Luckily I was going relatively slowly. I dropped the bike and almost stood up. A couple of scrapes and a bruised ankle. He did at least stop to make sure I was okay. He left with a flea in his ear. Bike hardly scratched.

2nd was Pattaya. Riding along a gravel road, plenty of dips and larger rocks along the road.. 3 dogs leapt up at me. I veered away. Hit a large lump. Lost control and as I braked hard the brake cable snapped right next to the brake lever. Ended up in thorny bushes. A few scratches but nothing serious. Luckily the bike heading towards me stopped in good time.

Those dogs were gone a few days later. Apparently not the first time they had done this.

3rd was the one in Chonburi I posted about almost a month ago. Front tyre blew out at roughly 60 KMPH. Not a lot I could do really. Tried to control it. Failed. Dropped it onto my right side. Leg first, hip second, shoulder third and finally my head hit the road. I saw either sparks or debris flashing past my head off the helmet.

Bad road rash. Badly broken collar bone - they are talking 4 months before it has healed properly. Great lump on my hip. The helmet did a good job. No injuries there.

As a side note, when the bike was delivered back to the g/f after being repaired it turns out both tyres were flat. I don't know if I ran over anything or not, but sh*t happens sometimes.

That looked like a serious accident there, hope you recover soon.

Which bike were you riding, if you dont mind? and which tires?

Honda Click.

The tyres were new in October 2014. (I did not put the tyres on - the g/f did when she had the oil change done etc.) The m/c had done less than 200 KM as she only used it rarely to get to school to work. (Easier to get the local Songtaew with her teachers equipment).

I can only surmise I ran over something that I did not see on the nearside lane. I had done about 30 Km's with no problems from village roads and through Chonburi itself. No stability problems in heavy traffic and cornering. The tyre blew out on the straight outside of Chonburi.

If she remembers what tyres they were that she had put on, I'll come back to this and let you know.

The leg has healed. Bad scarring though. Now I have a 2 tone leg. Purple and white