Lifan Cross and X-Cross

[papa al]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

Edited October 7, 2015 by papa al

[AllanB]

Going back to the subject of comfort, went in the Lifan dealership today, sat the pair of us down the bike and MrsB said "a lot better than the KLX150 we rented on Koh Sumet".

And just looking at it I recon Papa's idea of a padded seat net would do the bizzo too. The bike comes with a luggage rack and all the pegs/foot controls are in the right place for my liking.

I have another theory as to why these a better buy secondhand than the Jap bikes and I am generalising here. The CRF is a much more capable bike off road, no argument there, so they will be ridden harder off road, thus punishing the bike a lot more with much more wear and tear as a result. Most Lifan owners will probably buy for one of two reasons, they fit the rider better, and/or they have to travel down soft/muddy or bumpy roads to get to wherever.

When we were looking for an off-roader (typically an LR Discovery) to use off-road, we always bought one from a housewife, who had never taken it off road. Starting with a vehicle with less wear and tear, knowing that a year of off-road events = 10 years+ of tarmac driving.

The kind of explains why Maz's bike is still A1 4 years on and why the KLX I hired in Koh Sumet was rattly after less than 6 months.

The fly in the ointment may be the time it takes to get a green book.

Edited October 7, 2015 by AllanB

[ktm jeff]

Many of these bikes are fitted with an engine thats coded 163 FML - 1 cylinder , 63mm bore . These can be OHV - Lifan and Keeway , and OHC - Platinum and M-Bike . The power differences between these engines is small , with the Platinum giving more power and torque ( 12.5KW and 17NM ) due to its 233cc rather than its OHC design that allows better gas flow in the cylinder head . The M-Bike 200 OHC gives 11.2KW and 14.5NM , the Keeway gives 9.5KW and 13.5NM , and the Lifan 200 OHV gives 10.2KW and 13.8NM . They are all under-stressed / over designed , so should be "bullet proof" . If buying ANY off-road style bike , i would try to find one with no or little off-road use , and i always find the owner is the key to the bikes condition .

Edited October 7, 2015 by ktm jeff

[AllanB]

Many of these bikes are fitted with an engine thats coded 163 FML - 1 cylinder , 63mm bore . These can be OHV - Lifan and Keeway , and OHC - Platinum and M-Bike . The power differences between these engines is small , with the Platinum giving more power and torque ( 12.5KW and 17NM ) due to its 233cc rather than its OHC design that allows better gas flow in the cylinder head . The M-Bike 200 OHC gives 11.2KW and 14.5NM , the Keeway gives 9.5KW and 13.5NM , and the Lifan 200 OHV gives 10.2KW and 13.8NM . They are all under-stressed / over designed , so should be "bullet proof" . If buying ANY off-road style bike , i would try to find one with no or little off-road use , and i always find the owner is the key to the bikes condition .

Surely all engines are OHV, they stopped building side valve engines 60 years ago, an OHC is more efficient but more trouble if the camchain is flimsy. Out in the field push rods are easy and this outweighs the tiny loss in efficiency. Usually long stroke engines give better low down torque, which I prefer to the extra bhp, which you don't get until the engine is screaming anyway. So IMO the torque/bhp curves are the key, not just the peaks.

As I understand it pushrods lose efficiency with rpm and is why fast revving engines all have OHCs, you get valve bounce at a lower rpm with PR's, as a general rule and of course you can use narrower tappet tolerances on OHC engines, due to the lower expansion rates.

As a general rule lower powered engines are under less stress and last longer, a good thing in my book. I remember a documentary about Allan Clarke MP, who had an old vintage "Straight-Eight" Bentley and and he hadn't serviced the vehicle for 30 years and the engine would run at the an rpm in double figures much of the time. Now that's what I call lazy!

Edited October 7, 2015 by AllanB

[MAZ3]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

I might try that,I've got a spare rear road tyre already and when it needs sprockets I try changing them.

And the rear intermediate tyre cost 700B fitted,I assume the front more(I'll have to check out the make).

Not tried them in the wet yet though!

Edited October 7, 2015 by MAZ3

[AllanB]

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1444055048.655010.jpg

What is under the panels marked with an "X" any metal, is it possible to strap a couple of smallish wetbags either side? It would spread the weight and give a modicum of crash protection, then just a bag across the luggage rack..and a rucksack for the girl.

[ktm jeff]

Yes AllanB , nearly all modern engines ( except some nautical , aero , and military ) have valves in the heads - OHV , per se , but some engines have the cams also in the head _ OHC , for better valve and inlet / exhaust tract angles , while the - OHV design keeps the cam in the crankcase.to simplify / reduce design / cost . I dont have any power / torque graphs for any Platinum / M-Bike / Lifan or Keeway engines - would be nice to see some - but , while the Platinum , M-Bike and Keeway engines produce maximum power and torque at 7,500 RPM and 6,000RPM , the Lifans maximum power is at 8,000RPM , and torque at 6,500 RPM . Behind the plastic panels is the exhaust on the right , tool-box or nothing on the left .

[MAZ3]

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1444055048.655010.jpg

What is under the panels marked with an "X" any metal, is it possible to strap a couple of smallish wetbags either side? It would spread the weight and give a modicum of crash protection, then just a bag across the luggage rack..and a rucksack for the girl.

They're just cosmetic plastic panels,I'll have a proper look tomorrow to see what's underneath.

As stated there's the exhaust of the right,it has a heat-shield,but not how any bags touching it would fare

[AllanB]

Yes AllanB , nearly all modern engines ( except some nautical , aero , and military ) have valves in the heads - OHV , per se , but some engines have the cams also in the head _ OHC , for better valve and inlet / exhaust tract angles , while the - OHV design keeps the cam in the crankcase.to simplify / reduce design / cost . I dont have any power / torque graphs for any Platinum / M-Bike / Lifan or Keeway engines - would be nice to see some - but , while the Platinum , M-Bike and Keeway engines produce maximum power and torque at 7,500 RPM and 6,000RPM , the Lifans maximum power is at 8,000RPM , and torque at 6,500 RPM . Behind the plastic panels is the exhaust on the right , tool-box or nothing on the left .

Ok you are using a different terminology, that OHV just means side cam, fair enough same difference. The last side valve engine I encountered was a 1950 Land Rover, didn't know they used them elsewhere still.

I am more interested in what torque is achieved at 1500/2500rpm, which is where I like to be, keeps the gear changing down to a minimum, giving a more relaxed and comfortable ride....especially for the pillion rider apparently. The Missus complains that when we ride the NV she has a feeling of falling off the back, because by the time the torque kicks in, the power is there too in shovel loads too. Below 2000rpm, there is very little, then a lot. Perhaps helped by an engine note induced adrenaline rush from YT.

Isn't the torque increased by the weight of the flywheel and power/response reduced by a heavier flywheel?

I tried out a Lifan about 5 years ago but only on the tarmac, don't remember how it pulled on tickover...anyone tell me? Shame these shops don't do test rides.

Years ago I had a 350 Aprillia trials bike and even after regearing that would pull in almost any gear at any rpm, anywhere, nice easy bike.

I have seen a few expedition bikes with luggage on the sides at the front and had all our heavy stuff between my legs on the Wave in VN which balanced things up quite well. Need things strapped on properly this time though.

[ktm jeff]

AllanB , your correct with the basic idea of the flywheel . It cant "increase" torque as such , but think of it as a power reserve , that carries the engines power and torque over its 3 non-power strokes (inlet , compression , POWER and exhaust on a 4 stroke). It reduces the engines perceived "dead" spots . Which is why singles are lumpy at tickover . And yes 1 = side valve (normally inlet valve in head , exhaust valve in block / crankcase) = Land Rover / Jeep . 2 = OHV , with a side camshaft in the block / crankcase, but all the valves are in the head . 3 = OHC , with cam / cams above the valves , and all are in the head . Of the 4 bikes i mentioned above , the power characteristics are VERY similar . Would be nice to get some power and torque graphs though .

[thaiguzzi]

Yawn...

Not this OHV/SV <deleted> again by an armchair engineer.

I am a mechanic/machinist/mechanical engineer by trade. Got the certificates.

OHV = cam in the c/cases.

OHC = cam in the head.

Both have the valves in the c/head.

SV = cam in the c/cases and valves in the cylinder barrel.

IoE = pre 30's thing, mainly USA, Inlet over Exhaust, ie inlet valve in the head, exhaust valve in the cylinder barrel.

Got it?

End of.

[AllanB]

Yawn...

Not this OHV/SV <deleted> again by an armchair engineer.

I am a mechanic/machinist/mechanical engineer by trade. Got the certificates.

OHV = cam in the c/cases.

OHC = cam in the head.

Both have the valves in the c/head.

SV = cam in the c/cases and valves in the cylinder barrel.

IoE = pre 30's thing, mainly USA, Inlet over Exhaust, ie inlet valve in the head, exhaust valve in the cylinder barrel.

Got it?

End of.

Yawn 2, you aint the only one with stifficates and all modern engines are OHV.

Got that?

Plus most engineers I know have armchairs in their houses, you should get one they are very comfortable, they help you relax.

I mentioned on another thread about a whole load of Youtube vids on the Lifan200gy-5 and most seem to be in Russia, they look great fun bikes. Seemed to owned by guys who just want to mess around and all seem trouble free clunkers, with the only issues of how to get out of the mud, or not fall off in the snow and ice.

Edited October 8, 2015 by AllanB

[MAZ3]

Are all these Lifans fitted with a pushrod engine? I read on other forums there are other configurations, shorter stroke and OHC engines?

By all accounts the original pushrod engines are the best, most think bulletproof and a little less bhp, but with a bit more low rpm torque.

Oh and Maz how much were the intermediate tyres?

"Get a 2nd hand crf or klx

Cost effective and still Japanese reliable ..!.. You will still pay 100k baht for good one that hasn't been ragged, they are complicated and judging by the CB300s, not that reliable. Have scoured the internet trying to find someone with a 200gy gripe, can't find much at all.

Allan this should make things clearer.

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/forum/viewtopic.php?

Basic OHV Carb Engine,based on the old Honda CG125 series,if I'm correct?.

Seems to pull my fat arse around ok,been told it likes 95 not 91(from the local Lifan Dealer in Kanchanaburi).

[MAZ3]

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1444055048.655010.jpg

What is under the panels marked with an "X" any metal, is it possible to strap a couple of smallish wetbags either side? It would spread the weight and give a modicum of crash protection, then just a bag across the luggage rack..and a rucksack for the girl.

They're just cosmetic plastic panels,I'll have a proper look tomorrow to see what's underneath.

As stated there's the exhaust of the right,it has a heat-shield,but not how any bags touching it would fare

A few photos,the plastic covers just unscrew and you could use the lugs to attach a bag etc.

The rear rack seems strong,don't know what weight limit it has,but seems decent enough. The chap I brought it off had a topbox fitted,might do the same(1800B for a 30L Givi from Yamaha,with the fitting plate)

Hope these are clear enough to see your options for carrying baggage etc.

Cheers

[thaiguzzi]

Yawn 3. Three. Trois. Drei.

You do not give up do you!

OHV tells you the valves are in the head and the cam down below.

OHC tells you the cam is in the head.

Both have valves in the head.

Just have a look at every manufacturer's blurb describing their latest engines. Kawasaki to Mercedes and everything in between. Do you see the 3 letters OHV. No. You see OHC or DOHC.

Stop being a pedantic ignorant prat and just accept normal engine terminology. Puleeeze.

[MAZ3]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

Papa,have you changed your sprockets to the above?,and will that be enough?.

Cheers

[MAZ3]

Yawn 3. Three. Trois. Drei.

You do not give up do you!

OHV tells you the valves are in the head and the cam down below.

OHC tells you the cam is in the head.

Both have valves in the head.

Just have a look at every manufacturer's blurb describing their latest engines. Kawasaki to Mercedes and everything in between. Do you see the 3 letters OHV. No. You see OHC or DOHC.

Stop being a pedantic ignorant prat and just accept normal engine terminology. Puleeeze.[/quote

I'm not trolling,just attached a manual that shows it's an OHV on the Cross,as someone asked if it's OHC.

[thaiguzzi]

My post was not adressed to you Maz3, i know the Lifan motor is OHV, ie uses pushrods for valve actuation, and is based on the original Honda CG 125 design. The most interesting and unusual part of this engine is the single cam lobe design. Yes, single lobe, for both IN and EX, ie both will have identical timing and duration, the followers pivot above the cam, and you can always spot this OHV design as the cylinder barrel has the screw in plug on the bottom L/H side where the followers pivot on their shaft. Simple. Clever.

[MAZ3]

My post was not adressed to you Maz3, i know the Lifan motor is OHV, ie uses pushrods for valve actuation, and is based on the original Honda CG 125 design. The most interesting and unusual part of this engine is the single cam lobe design. Yes, single lobe, for both IN and EX, ie both will have identical timing and duration, the followers pivot above the cam, and you can always spot this OHV design as the cylinder barrel has the screw in plug on the bottom L/H side where the followers pivot on their shaft. Simple. Clever.

Sorry,my mistake[emoji17].

I didn't remember that arrangement,I actually passed my Full motorbike test(In the UK)back in the very hot summer of 1976 on a borrowed CG125.

Cheers

[papa al]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

Papa,have you changed your sprockets to the above?,and will that be enough?.

Cheers

Nein!

Just armchair speculation.

(papa use a ceeber for touring.)

If trying crosser for road touring, even smaller rear sprocket might be best.

Sprockets for experimentation aren't too expensive.

Thinking 110 cruise well below redline might be do-able.

papa has been re-coloring the black X.

Adding red plastic fender and rear piece

(plastic is really cheap for these)

and yellow reflective stripes.

&c.

Waiting for a dry spell, will paint tank, yellow.

Going for a colorful motif, I guess.

Using Givi 30liter top box sometimes.

(Quick release; between Lifan and ceeber.)

Ciao.

[ktm jeff]

Inlet over exhaust , havent heard that for a while . I dont know of an engine with both valves are in the barrel / block , that you refer to as S V. Single cam lobe on Lifan , interesting. Keeps it simple , cheap and narrow. OHC is more efficient for independent cam timing and gas flow .

[thaiguzzi]

Re, the above posts;

# LOL, 76 i was still riding FS1E's and Fantics. 77 passed my test on my old man's Honda CD175 (not CB 175 - full valanced mudguards, chrome panels on the tank, looked like a 50's BSA - proper old mans bike). First bike i bought straight after the test was an RD 350.

# Pretty much every famous/popular SV motor had the valves in the cylinder barrel. Where else you gonna put them? Tappets generally in there too above the cam in the cases, but not always.

Think;

Norton 16H

BSA M20/21

Triumph TRW twin

Harley 45 twin

Indian twins

etc etc...

[MAZ3]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

Went to the local Lifan dealer yesterday(Kanchanaburi)to order the fork gaiters and he has a fully off-road version which has a 14 teeth front sprocket(NSR) and a 44 teeth rear(MTX)with a 520 chain.

He does monthly trekking trips in the mountains,but I think I'm too old and fat now!. I took mine down a dirt road and it handles things pretty well,better then me.

[AllanB]

Looked at the Keyway 200 cross thing today (well a photo, my-me) 61,800 baht, didn't care for it much, prefer the simpler Lifan and the price is less.

Trouble is the only Lifan stockist here has only one bike in stock, a very old machine (brand new, but 2 years old, with flat tyres) and she still wants 49k for it. In fact looking at the second hand machine pictured above I looks older than that... Could it be 5 years old and brand new? I bought a new Seiko watch (genuine) here in Khon Kaen and that turned out to be 8 years old.

Anyway, not a lot of choice here in this city, it's either Honda or Honda....

Edited October 9, 2015 by AllanB

[papa al]

Tires have manufacture codes in the side wall with week and year of manufacture.

For example, 2815 is July 2015.

This can be a clue for age of new old stock.

You could also enter the frame number into a www search.

Maybe get you a mfg date.

Try for a new one.

Ubon, Udon, Koran, Buriram, whatever.

If you like the Lifan 200, the mortard version might be better.

X-plore.

Good aftermarket tire selection on 17" rims.

You would have to add a rack,

but has better muffler; international shift pattern, maybe.

Maybe OHC.

Edited October 9, 2015 by papa al

[AllanB]

Tires have manufacture codes in the side wall with week and year of manufacture.

For example, 2815 is July 2015.

This can be a clue for age of new old stock.

You could also enter the frame number into a www search.

Maybe get you a mfg date.

Try for a new one.

Ubon, Udon, Koran, Buriram, whatever.

If you like the Lifan 200, the mortard version might be better.

X-plore.

Good aftermarket tire selection on 17" rims.

You would have to add a rack,

but has better muffler; international shift pattern, maybe.

Maybe OHC.

I did ask my missus to make her an offer of 39k, but she said it would likely upset the woman, so I will leave it until the oil runs out, or the snow arrives here.

Is this a self service bike, as if I buy one in Udon, this woman may not want to service the bike, with her crock still unsold?

No, I like the big wheels and the pushrod engine and will get used to the shift pattern, no hurry. The ride height (seat) is perfect for me, (pegs too) if anything the CRF and KLX(250) is a tad too high and I have long legs, god knows how the Thais ride them. Elton John's Tommy shoes, no doubt.

[apetley]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

Went to the local Lifan dealer yesterday(Kanchanaburi)to order the fork gaiters and he has a fully off-road version which has a 14 teeth front sprocket(NSR) and a 44 teeth rear(MTX)with a 520 chain.

He does monthly trekking trips in the mountains,but I think I'm too old and fat now!. I took mine down a dirt road and it handles things pretty well,better then me.

Hi, where is the dealer in Kanchanaburi?

[MAZ3]

Tires have manufacture codes in the side wall with week and year of manufacture.

For example, 2815 is July 2015.

This can be a clue for age of new old stock.

You could also enter the frame number into a www search.

Maybe get you a mfg date.

Try for a new one.

Ubon, Udon, Koran, Buriram, whatever.

If you like the Lifan 200, the mortard version might be better.

X-plore.

Good aftermarket tire selection on 17" rims.

You would have to add a rack,

but has better muffler; international shift pattern, maybe.

Maybe OHC.

I did ask my missus to make her an offer of 39k, but she said it would likely upset the woman, so I will leave it until the oil runs out, or the snow arrives here.

Is this a self service bike, as if I buy one in Udon, this woman may not want to service the bike, with her crock still unsold?

No, I like the big wheels and the pushrod engine and will get used to the shift pattern, no hurry. The ride height (seat) is perfect for me, (pegs too) if anything the CRF and KLX(250) is a tad too high and I have long legs, god knows how the Thais ride them. Elton John's Tommy shoes, no doubt.

The dealer here(Kanchanaburi) has a nice new Black one and wants 47,000(I thought the list price was 46,000?),it seems to vary!.

It looked clean etc,but I didn't check the date on tyres etcetera. I did think too myself maybe should have just brought a new one?. But I was testing out the waters with the missus with a secondhand bike first [emoji51].

[MAZ3]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

Went to the local Lifan dealer yesterday(Kanchanaburi)to order the fork gaiters and he has a fully off-road version which has a 14 teeth front sprocket(NSR) and a 44 teeth rear(MTX)with a 520 chain.

He does monthly trekking trips in the mountains,but I think I'm too old and fat now!. I took mine down a dirt road and it handles things pretty well,better then me.

Hi, where is the dealer in Kanchanaburi?

If you go thru Town over the main railway crossing towards Saiyok,pass Big C on your right,straight ahead at the traffic lights and then your on the Latya road.

After the Army base on your right,about 2/3miles there's a Restaurant on your left(it looks like Dutch buildings)and a DEESTONE sign and it's next door.

The place isn't much too look at,but he a nice bloke and seems to know what he's doing.

He's on 0895544916,He only speaks Thai.

I've no connection with the business,I'm only a customer.

Regards

Edited October 9, 2015 by MAZ3

[apetley]

With road tires, and one tooth smaller rear and one tooth more on front sprocket changes,

Crosser would make a decent road bike IPO.

21" wheels handle rough roads a lot better than 17.

Two-up?

For some reason this seems not so good.

Not sure why.

I have seen young farang out there on Laos roads 2-up, with bags,

on 100cc.

Went to the local Lifan dealer yesterday(Kanchanaburi)to order the fork gaiters and he has a fully off-road version which has a 14 teeth front sprocket(NSR) and a 44 teeth rear(MTX)with a 520 chain.

He does monthly trekking trips in the mountains,but I think I'm too old and fat now!. I took mine down a dirt road and it handles things pretty well,better then me.

Hi, where is the dealer in Kanchanaburi?

If you go thru Town over the main railway crossing towards Saiyok,pass Big C on your right,straight ahead at the traffic lights and then your on the Latya road.

After about 5/6 miles there's a Restaurant on your left(it looks like Dutch buildings)and a DEESTONE sign and it's next door.

The place isn't much too look at,but he a nice bloke and seems to know what he's doing.

He's on 0895544916,He only speaks Thai.

I've no connection with the business,I'm only a customer.

Regards

Thanks a lot. Had no idea there was a local dealer so will go and check them out sometime.