Another UK Supreme Court hearing on English tests

[Jay Sata]

Jay Sata, I do believe that you have lost the plot. You have more than 2,600 posts in this forum, and have contributed absolutely nothing of value to any of the ongoing threads. If you cannot understand that the evacuation of the British Embassy in Yemen has nothing to do with the Supreme Court decision on English tests, then you are beyond help.

I was referring to http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/322.html

In the Supreme Court in just over a weeks time.

This relates to appellants who argue they do not have to past the English test.

One of the two is from Yemen.

My posts elsewhere on the site are irrelevant to this discussion unless you want to censor posters you feel

oppose your interests.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

I, too, fail to see what the evacuation of the British embassy in Yemen has to do with either of these cases.

These cases represent a principle; the unfortunate situation in Yemen has nothing to do with that principle.

My posts elsewhere on the site are irrelevant to this discussion unless you want to censor posters you feel
oppose your interests.

Your posts in this particular forum show that you have zero understanding of the UK's immigration rules.

Despite your ignorance you continue to offer 'advice' which if followed will result in a refusal and associated financial loss to applicant and/or sponsor.

Such as your recent completely wrong 'advice' that a spouse visa sponsor could use his premium bonds toward the financial requirement.

Yet you have never even acknowledged any of your mistakes, let alone apologised for them.

[Tony M]

Jay Sata, I do believe that you have lost the plot. You have more than 2,600 posts in this forum, and have contributed absolutely nothing of value to any of the ongoing threads. If you cannot understand that the evacuation of the British Embassy in Yemen has nothing to do with the Supreme Court decision on English tests, then you are beyond help.

I was referring to http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/322.html

In the Supreme Court in just over a weeks time.

This relates to appellants who argue they do not have to past the English test.

One of the two is from Yemen.

My posts elsewhere on the site are irrelevant to this discussion unless you want to censor posters you feel

oppose your interests.

You do like to have the last word, and you do seem to think that you have the moral high ground in every discussion. So be it, I concede that the you are the fount of all knowledge, and perhaps it should be you making the decision in front of the Supreme Court. No "third world" applicant would stand much of a chance of getting a visa if you had your way. I will not enter into any more discussions with you, except when it is necessary to point out when you are completely wrong. That will continue to be fairly often, I would think. I might even stop doing that if you were man enough to take responsibility for your erroneous advice and wrong assumptions. But, pigs might also fly............................

[durhamboy]

Just thought I'd throw something in from left field while other senior members are otherwise engaged in their own little dogfight.

What would happen if a UK person whose first language is Welsh and he wanted to bring his foreign spouse for settlement in the UK and they wanted to be tested in Welsh not English?

Correct me if I'm wrong but Welsh is an option isn't it? If so, where in the world could that test be studied for and taken? Very few, if any, centres I would think. Therefore failing suitable facilties for testing could they not make a similar claim as the appellants in this case?

[7by7]

According to the immigration rules and Appendix KoLL the relevant qualifications must be in English.

Neither Welsh nor Scottish Gaelic are mentioned.

[durhamboy]

Yes probably you are right 7by7 although I thought you could take LITUK in Welsh or Scots Gaelic if you wished.

Anyway just a red herring from me so apologies.

[Jay Sata]

Yes probably you are right 7by7 although I thought you could take LITUK in Welsh or Scots Gaelic if you wished.

Anyway just a red herring from me so apologies.

Yes it can be taken in Welsh and Gaelic.

See page 15.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/375897/KoLL_v16_0_EXT.pdf

Edited February 16, 2015 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

Congratulations to Mr Sata on getting something right for a change.

But this topic and Durhamboy's original question are not about the LitUK test.

The LitUK test can indeed be taken in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic; but only if taking the test in Wales or Scotland.

According to the document linked to above, the speaking and listening test, which is what was asked about, has to be in English. Whether for the initial visa, FLR or ILR and whether taken outside the UK, in England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

It does seem daft that one can take the written test in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic, but the oral one has to be in English; but that's UKVI all over!

[Fab5BKK]

As a non - native English speaker, I've 3 points to make:

1. If English test mandatory to live in the UK, it should be for everybody (non-brits and British people). Otherwise, there'll be foreigners with a better English than locals ;-)

2. If legally married, it's against basic Human Rights to block a family to live together in the UK because of lack of English proficiency.

3. I agree that in order to get citizenship a certain level of the local language should be reached.

Just my 2 cents

Edited February 16, 2015 by Fab5BKK

[Jay Sata]

Congratulations to Mr Sata on getting something right for a change.

But this topic and Durhamboy's original question are not about the LitUK test.

The LitUK test can indeed be taken in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic; but only if taking the test in Wales or Scotland.

According to the document linked to above, the speaking and listening test, which is what was asked about, has to be in English. Whether for the initial visa, FLR or ILR and whether taken outside the UK, in England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

It does seem daft that one can take the written test in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic, but the oral one has to be in English; but that's UKVI all over!

I hate to disappoint you but I happen to know quite a bit about Welsh politics and the various language acts plus the Welsh Assembly.

Given your recent display of Eire and Guernsey knowledge I am sure you are up to speed with the Welsh Government and the AM's who sit in Cardiff.

I am not going to point you to the bit of legislation that proves you wrong but instead let you find it yourself.

I think you will have to agree you are incorrect.

Call me a know all but after many years in Wales I am still semi fluent in the language.

Cymru am byth. Y Ddraig Goch ddyry gychwyn

PS...if you are coming to Wales a word of warning. Once across the Severn bridge if you smoke in the car with children on board you will be fined £50.00!

I guess in your words...daft?

Edited February 16, 2015 by Jay Sata

[bobrussell]

Are there no limits to the countries you have honoured with your presence? Are there no languages you have not mastered?

Long-term Irish, Welsh and Guernsey resident. Presumably you speak Gaeilge fluently as well. Thai must have been a doddle!

[rockingrobin]

Congratulations to Mr Sata on getting something right for a change.

But this topic and Durhamboy's original question are not about the LitUK test.

The LitUK test can indeed be taken in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic; but only if taking the test in Wales or Scotland.

According to the document linked to above, the speaking and listening test, which is what was asked about, has to be in English. Whether for the initial visa, FLR or ILR and whether taken outside the UK, in England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

It does seem daft that one can take the written test in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic, but the oral one has to be in English; but that's UKVI all over!

I hate to disappoint you but I happen to know quite a bit about Welsh politics and the various language acts plus the Welsh Assembly.

Given your recent display of Eire and Guernsey knowledge I am sure you are up to speed with the Welsh Government and the AM's who sit in Cardiff.

I am not going to point you to the bit of legislation that proves you wrong but instead let you find it yourself.

I think you will have to agree you are incorrect.

Call me a know all but after many years in Wales I am still semi fluent in the language.

Cymru am byth. Y Ddraig Goch ddyry gychwyn

PS...if you are coming to Wales a word of warning. Once across the Severn bridge if you smoke in the car with children on board you will be fined £50.00!

I guess in your words...daft?

I have been through the uk immigration documents and guidance and cannot find any reference to welsh being acceptable with exception for tests carried out within uk and for supporting documents regarding employment etc.

The immigration documents seem to specify English

Also on a side issue there are exceptions where no A1 test centre exist , and would be difficult for the candidate to travel to another country , that the pre-entry test does not apply

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/370611/Annex_FM_1_21_November_2014.pdf

[7by7]

<snip>

It does seem daft that one can take the written test in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic, but the oral one has to be in English; but that's UKVI all over!

I hate to disappoint you but I happen to know quite a bit about Welsh politics and the various language acts plus the Welsh Assembly.

Given your recent display of Eire and Guernsey knowledge I am sure you are up to speed with the Welsh Government and the AM's who sit in Cardiff.

I am not going to point you to the bit of legislation that proves you wrong but instead let you find it yourself.

I think you will have to agree you are incorrect.

Call me a know all but after many years in Wales I am still semi fluent in the language.

Cymru am byth. Y Ddraig Goch ddyry gychwyn

PS...if you are coming to Wales a word of warning. Once across the Severn bridge if you smoke in the car with children on board you will be fined £50.00!

I guess in your words...daft?

The immigration rules are laid down by the Westminster Parliament, not the Welsh Assembly.

They are administered by the UKVI, not the Welsh Assembly.

The immigration rules, the KoLL document you linked to, all other UKVI information all say that the speaking and listening qualifications for the initial visa, FLR, ILR and citizenship are to be in English; no mention is made of any other language.

But if you do have proof that any of these qualifications can be in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic; provide it.

My 'recent display of Eire and Guernsey knowledge' was based upon up to date information provided by the governments concerned; not the out of date, superseded documents you provided for the Eire question or the self aggrandisement, similar to the above, which was your sole contribution to the Guernsey topic!

BTW, when I make a mistake, I acknowledge it and apologise for it.

When are you going to acknowledge, let alone apologise for, any of your many mistakes?

Such as your telling someone they can use their premium bonds towards the financial requirement. Completely wrong advice which, if followed, would have resulted in a refusal and the loss of nearly £1000 to the poster concerned!

Are there no limits to the countries you have honoured with your presence? Are there no languages you have not mastered?

Long-term Irish, Welsh and Guernsey resident. Presumably you speak Gaeilge fluently as well. Thai must have been a doddle!

Easy to copy and paste the motto.

Lots of wonderful translation tools available on the web.

Edited February 17, 2015 by 7by7