Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold

[Shadychris]

You're absurd. All foreigners are supposed to carry their passports with them at all times, and all Thais are supposed to carry their ID cards or another acceptable form of identification at all times. So there's nothing absurd about requiring them to be shown, since everyone is already supposed to be carrying an appropriate ID. Also, not every nationality would have a different fee imposed. Perhaps only 20 out of the total number of possible nationalities would have a different fee imposed, many others would just be levied the same fee i.e. Samoa, French Polynesia, Vanuatu, etc. basically only the bigger nationalities would likely have a different fee imposed, besides, what are the chances of someone from say Papua New Guinea ever visiting a national park in Thailand anyway? And why should the fees need to be "updated"? They could just be kept static until an order declares they should be changed once a year or perhaps only once every 5 years.

Hey as I already said, Italy DID this. I didn't make it up, they DID this. So if they were able to do it, it doesn't mean Thailand or other countries couldn't. It's not rocket science either.

At border checkpoints the officers also have a manual printed list of nationalities detailing their visa, visa-free, VOA entitlements etc. so I don't see any reason why park officials couldn't implement a similar system. And oh, in case you forgot, there are these things called computers now where at the click of a mouse you could see what someone's entitlements are, rather than having to look through a printed list, like as if we were still living in 1965 as you might still be. What did you use to write your message then, huh?

As I've maintained before and most other people have stated, being fair and not discriminating against anyone, entitling everyone to pay the same price would be best. BUT, a system where different people are charged different amounts depending on their nationalities, while still in a way a form of discrimination would be more reasonable than the current system and as I've stated before it has precedence. It's been done before, it's nothing radical. So stop blasting this relatively simple to implement idea and learn how to use Google.

What Italy did in the past from what i can see is no longer true. One price fits all these days.

"One price fits all these days"

Far from it... Children and elderly get different prices - discrimination by age you could claim. Lower prices for disabled - why should they pay any less than able bodied people - isn't that discrimination against able bodied people? How about different rates for larger groups? Why should the individuals in a group of say 10 or more, pay less per person than those individuals in a large family group of 9? And of course Thailand, like some other SE Asian countries, also chooses to charge more to non-resident tourists, who it is reasonable to assume have much more disposable income than the 70 plus percentage (approx 48 million) of Thais who are classed as living below the poverty line. So one price doesn't 'fit all' these days.

[Bluespunk]

You're absurd. All foreigners are supposed to carry their passports with them at all times, and all Thais are supposed to carry their ID cards or another acceptable form of identification at all times. So there's nothing absurd about requiring them to be shown, since everyone is already supposed to be carrying an appropriate ID. Also, not every nationality would have a different fee imposed. Perhaps only 20 out of the total number of possible nationalities would have a different fee imposed, many others would just be levied the same fee i.e. Samoa, French Polynesia, Vanuatu, etc. basically only the bigger nationalities would likely have a different fee imposed, besides, what are the chances of someone from say Papua New Guinea ever visiting a national park in Thailand anyway? And why should the fees need to be "updated"? They could just be kept static until an order declares they should be changed once a year or perhaps only once every 5 years.

Hey as I already said, Italy DID this. I didn't make it up, they DID this. So if they were able to do it, it doesn't mean Thailand or other countries couldn't. It's not rocket science either.

At border checkpoints the officers also have a manual printed list of nationalities detailing their visa, visa-free, VOA entitlements etc. so I don't see any reason why park officials couldn't implement a similar system. And oh, in case you forgot, there are these things called computers now where at the click of a mouse you could see what someone's entitlements are, rather than having to look through a printed list, like as if we were still living in 1965 as you might still be. What did you use to write your message then, huh?

As I've maintained before and most other people have stated, being fair and not discriminating against anyone, entitling everyone to pay the same price would be best. BUT, a system where different people are charged different amounts depending on their nationalities, while still in a way a form of discrimination would be more reasonable than the current system and as I've stated before it has precedence. It's been done before, it's nothing radical. So stop blasting this relatively simple to implement idea and learn how to use Google.

What Italy did in the past from what i can see is no longer true. One price fits all these days.

"One price fits all these days"

Far from it... Children and elderly get different prices - discrimination by age you could claim. Lower prices for disabled - why should they pay any less than able bodied people - isn't that discrimination against able bodied people? How about different rates for larger groups? Why should the individuals in a group of say 10 or more, pay less per person than those individuals in a large family group of 9? And of course Thailand, like some other SE Asian countries, also chooses to charge more to non-resident tourists, who it is reasonable to assume have much more disposable income than the 70 plus percentage (approx 48 million) of Thais who are classed as living below the poverty line. So one price doesn't 'fit all' these days.

All prices do not discriminate in a prejudicial manner on the basis of nationality.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bluespunk

[marko kok prong]

Most of these parks are awful anyway,some full of litter, either crammed with Thai's eating playing music and taking selfies or coachloads of Russians mobbing the place easier to go for a holiday to Malaysia,Taman negara national park for example,and actually see a decent one.

[tomacht8]

You're absurd. All foreigners are supposed to carry their passports with them at all times, and all Thais are supposed to carry their ID cards or another acceptable form of identification at all times. So there's nothing absurd about requiring them to be shown, since everyone is already supposed to be carrying an appropriate ID. Also, not every nationality would have a different fee imposed. Perhaps only 20 out of the total number of possible nationalities would have a different fee imposed, many others would just be levied the same fee i.e. Samoa, French Polynesia, Vanuatu, etc. basically only the bigger nationalities would likely have a different fee imposed, besides, what are the chances of someone from say Papua New Guinea ever visiting a national park in Thailand anyway? And why should the fees need to be "updated"? They could just be kept static until an order declares they should be changed once a year or perhaps only once every 5 years.

Hey as I already said, Italy DID this. I didn't make it up, they DID this. So if they were able to do it, it doesn't mean Thailand or other countries couldn't. It's not rocket science either.

At border checkpoints the officers also have a manual printed list of nationalities detailing their visa, visa-free, VOA entitlements etc. so I don't see any reason why park officials couldn't implement a similar system. And oh, in case you forgot, there are these things called computers now where at the click of a mouse you could see what someone's entitlements are, rather than having to look through a printed list, like as if we were still living in 1965 as you might still be. What did you use to write your message then, huh?

As I've maintained before and most other people have stated, being fair and not discriminating against anyone, entitling everyone to pay the same price would be best. BUT, a system where different people are charged different amounts depending on their nationalities, while still in a way a form of discrimination would be more reasonable than the current system and as I've stated before it has precedence. It's been done before, it's nothing radical. So stop blasting this relatively simple to implement idea and learn how to use Google.

What Italy did in the past from what i can see is no longer true. One price fits all these days.

"One price fits all these days"

Far from it... Children and elderly get different prices - discrimination by age you could claim. Lower prices for disabled - why should they pay any less than able bodied people - isn't that discrimination against able bodied people? How about different rates for larger groups? Why should the individuals in a group of say 10 or more, pay less per person than those individuals in a large family group of 9? And of course Thailand, like some other SE Asian countries, also chooses to charge more to non-resident tourists, who it is reasonable to assume have much more disposable income than the 70 plus percentage (approx 48 million) of Thais who are classed as living below the poverty line. So one price doesn't 'fit all' these days.

Any dual price system should be avoided.

I am against dual price systems, doesn´t matter where it exists.

It brings likely more injustice then justice.

The compensatory justice for the disadvantaged, should done via the income tax system.

Tax allowances for poor families, poor pensioners and disabled if their income is very low indeed!

It is about government institutions like Parks that are financed by tax levies and extremely rare on entrance fees alone.

Government institutions should be free or with an entrance price for all the same.

I fully support the guide line from the EU:

As an EU national, you cannot be charged a higher price than local residents when buying products or services anywhere else in the EU, unless the price difference is justified.

Tourist attractions sometimes charge visitors a higher price than local residents. This is unlawful discrimination and you should not accept it.

Now a price increase from 200 Baht to 400 Baht only for foreigner (or not residents) is 100%

The price (40 Baht) for thais (or residents) is the same!

Why?

Why no price increase about 100% too?

Now every not resident tourist has the double income at home???

To pay 1000 % more than a thai local (or resident) for the same good makes nobody happy!

Especially when a holiday country wants to attract more tourists.

But I think all residents who earn significantly more than the normal average Thai,

will freely pay of solidarity the tourists (non resident) price, in the sense of poetic justice.

Or not?

Edited February 11, 2015 by tomacht8

[Shadychris]

You're absurd. All foreigners are supposed to carry their passports with them at all times, and all Thais are supposed to carry their ID cards or another acceptable form of identification at all times. So there's nothing absurd about requiring them to be shown, since everyone is already supposed to be carrying an appropriate ID. Also, not every nationality would have a different fee imposed. Perhaps only 20 out of the total number of possible nationalities would have a different fee imposed, many others would just be levied the same fee i.e. Samoa, French Polynesia, Vanuatu, etc. basically only the bigger nationalities would likely have a different fee imposed, besides, what are the chances of someone from say Papua New Guinea ever visiting a national park in Thailand anyway? And why should the fees need to be "updated"? They could just be kept static until an order declares they should be changed once a year or perhaps only once every 5 years.

Hey as I already said, Italy DID this. I didn't make it up, they DID this. So if they were able to do it, it doesn't mean Thailand or other countries couldn't. It's not rocket science either.

At border checkpoints the officers also have a manual printed list of nationalities detailing their visa, visa-free, VOA entitlements etc. so I don't see any reason why park officials couldn't implement a similar system. And oh, in case you forgot, there are these things called computers now where at the click of a mouse you could see what someone's entitlements are, rather than having to look through a printed list, like as if we were still living in 1965 as you might still be. What did you use to write your message then, huh?

As I've maintained before and most other people have stated, being fair and not discriminating against anyone, entitling everyone to pay the same price would be best. BUT, a system where different people are charged different amounts depending on their nationalities, while still in a way a form of discrimination would be more reasonable than the current system and as I've stated before it has precedence. It's been done before, it's nothing radical. So stop blasting this relatively simple to implement idea and learn how to use Google.

What Italy did in the past from what i can see is no longer true. One price fits all these days.

"One price fits all these days"

Far from it... Children and elderly get different prices - discrimination by age you could claim. Lower prices for disabled - why should they pay any less than able bodied people - isn't that discrimination against able bodied people? How about different rates for larger groups? Why should the individuals in a group of say 10 or more, pay less per person than those individuals in a large family group of 9? And of course Thailand, like some other SE Asian countries, also chooses to charge more to non-resident tourists, who it is reasonable to assume have much more disposable income than the 70 plus percentage (approx 48 million) of Thais who are classed as living below the poverty line. So one price doesn't 'fit all' these days.

All prices do not discriminate in a prejudicial manner on the basis of nationality.

Ah OK so I see you edited your post - so for the benefit of all, the original content was actually:-

"So many flaws and slights of hand in your thinking. Lets cut to the chase though. All prices do not discriminate in a prejudicial manner on the basis of nationality"

So as you are seemingly unable to identify these flaws and argue them, or uncover my alleged 'sleights of hand', it can only be assumed that you accept that discrimination based on age and disability are fine, but you think that discrimination based on the grounds of nationality is wrong.

Well actually it is not even nationality that is being discriminated - it is resident or non-resident status. You keep on disingenuously trying to twist this onto a racism issue.

It could be argued that to accept discrimination on the grounds of age or disability, but denounce it on perceived financial status (or even nationality) would be hypocritical...

But then you have already claimed that you would never support anyone or anything that encourages discrimination - and then completely voided that claim by admitting that you make the conscious choice to live and work here, thus supporting the system by paying taxes into it.

[Bluespunk]

Oh I stand by what I said originally but as all have been warned about flaming I modified it.

All your points above were made over the weekend and I answered them and proved them shallow. Most of these were removed so no point in repeating them or responding to your shallow accusations of hypocrisy.

Dual pricing in the basis of nationality is wrong. That is what this policy is. It doesn't matter if you might not have to pay if you are resident. It's wrong to do it to anyone.

Edit: your argument in your final paragraph. That makes no sense at all.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Shadychris]

Oh I stand by what I said originally but as all have been warned about flaming I modified it.

All your points above were made over the weekend and I answered them and proved them shallow. Most of these were removed so no point in repeating them or responding to your shallow accusations of hypocrisy.

It doesn't matter if you might not have to pay if you are resident. It's wrong to do it to anyone.

Edit: your argument in your final paragraph. That makes no sense at all.

"Dual pricing in the basis of nationality is wrong. That is what this policy is"

There you go again....! I really dont know how it can be ,made any simpler for you - maybe repeat after me - "it is not dual pricing on the basis of nationality - it is dual pricing based on residency status". Try reading that over and over again a few times - it may sink in ..

I do not have Thai nationality but as a resident with the correct documentation I qualify for the lower rate. So would you if you made the effort to get permanent residence status.

And the only thing you proved over the weekend was that my belief that your views on discrimination were hypocritical was correct. Which is presumably why the mods have allowed that post to remain.

Case closed.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Shadychris

[Bluespunk]

Oh I stand by what I said originally but as all have been warned about flaming I modified it.

All your points above were made over the weekend and I answered them and proved them shallow. Most of these were removed so no point in repeating them or responding to your shallow accusations of hypocrisy.

It doesn't matter if you might not have to pay if you are resident. It's wrong to do it to anyone.

Edit: your argument in your final paragraph. That makes no sense at all.

"Dual pricing in the basis of nationality is wrong. That is what this policy is"

There you go again....! I really dont know how it can be ,made any simpler for you - maybe repeat after me - "it is not dual pricing on the basis of nationality - it is dual pricing based on residency status". Try reading that over and over again a few times - it may sink in ..

I do not have Thai nationality but as a resident with the correct documentation I qualify for the lower rate. So would you if you made the effort to get permanent residence status.

And the only thing you proved over the weekend was that my belief that your views on discrimination were hypocritical was correct. Which is presumably why the mods have allowed that post to remain.

Case closed.

No, not at all, but thanks for the reminder to report it as a flame.

Your case is as weak as ever and you just don't listen. The prices are clearly based on nationality. One for Thais and one for non Thais. The lower prices are for Thais alone.

You claim that residents with permanent residence status can get in at the lower price, other posters have said this is not the case.

Even if it was it doesn't matter to me. If one person is discriminated against by dual pricing based on nationality then it is wrong. And it's not one. It's all non Thais.

That. Is. The. Policy.

Now the case is closed.

[tomacht8]

The whole thing is a very controversial issue.

What worries me is that this double price system is prepared to splashing into the daily life.
To charge non residents (mostly foreigners (tourists)) 10 times more.

Our local chicken grill woman charge for long noses more.
She does not even ask for my resident papers.
Now I always send my Thai family to buy chicken.

Yes it does not break the bank to pay 10 baht more
But is that right?
Is that fair?

The avoidance of dual price systems would not raise this question.
Simple as it is.

Edited February 11, 2015 by tomacht8

[Shadychris]

Oh I stand by what I said originally but as all have been warned about flaming I modified it.

All your points above were made over the weekend and I answered them and proved them shallow. Most of these were removed so no point in repeating them or responding to your shallow accusations of hypocrisy.

It doesn't matter if you might not have to pay if you are resident. It's wrong to do it to anyone.

Edit: your argument in your final paragraph. That makes no sense at all.

"Dual pricing in the basis of nationality is wrong. That is what this policy is"

There you go again....! I really dont know how it can be ,made any simpler for you - maybe repeat after me - "it is not dual pricing on the basis of nationality - it is dual pricing based on residency status". Try reading that over and over again a few times - it may sink in ..

I do not have Thai nationality but as a resident with the correct documentation I qualify for the lower rate. So would you if you made the effort to get permanent residence status.

And the only thing you proved over the weekend was that my belief that your views on discrimination were hypocritical was correct. Which is presumably why the mods have allowed that post to remain.

Case closed.

No, not at all, but thanks for the reminder to report it as a flame.

Your case is as weak as ever and you just don't listen. The prices are clearly based on nationality. One for Thais and one for non Thais. The lower prices are for Thais alone.

You claim that residents with permanent residence status can get in at the lower price, other posters have said this is not the case.

Even if it was it doesn't matter to me. If one person is discriminated against by dual pricing based on nationality then it is wrong. And it's not one. It's all non Thais.

That. Is. The. Policy.

Now the case is closed.

Don't know about the 'case' but clearly your mind is closed to anything other than your incorrect perceptions.

Your latest response is just completely wrong on every count bar one, and even that one is slightly wrong....

You have just shown yourself to be making things up now, and also inferring that the many Non-Thai contributors who have stated they do get resident price are liars.

Fact: The prices are based on residency status - not nationality.

Fact: The lower prices are not for Thais alone, but for anyone who can prove 'permanent' residency status

Fact: It is not all non Thais that do not get resident rate - many non Thai posters have already said they get the lower price, even with just a Thai DL - further proof of facts one and two!

The only fact you have quoted is that some have said they have not got the lower price - but they are almost entirely the ones trying to use a driving license, which is NOT proof of residency.. Only one non-Thai person has claimed he was refused lower price after showing a red book.

Regardless of whether it matters to you or not, the fact that someone may have wrongly been refused resident price has nothing to with the policy, or discrimination on the grounds of nationality, it has only to do with the staff members incorrect enforcement of it...

[Bluespunk]

Oh I stand by what I said originally but as all have been warned about flaming I modified it.

All your points above were made over the weekend and I answered them and proved them shallow. Most of these were removed so no point in repeating them or responding to your shallow accusations of hypocrisy.

It doesn't matter if you might not have to pay if you are resident. It's wrong to do it to anyone.

Edit: your argument in your final paragraph. That makes no sense at all.

"Dual pricing in the basis of nationality is wrong. That is what this policy is"

There you go again....! I really dont know how it can be ,made any simpler for you - maybe repeat after me - "it is not dual pricing on the basis of nationality - it is dual pricing based on residency status". Try reading that over and over again a few times - it may sink in ..

I do not have Thai nationality but as a resident with the correct documentation I qualify for the lower rate. So would you if you made the effort to get permanent residence status.

And the only thing you proved over the weekend was that my belief that your views on discrimination were hypocritical was correct. Which is presumably why the mods have allowed that post to remain.

Case closed.

No, not at all, but thanks for the reminder to report it as a flame.

Your case is as weak as ever and you just don't listen. The prices are clearly based on nationality. One for Thais and one for non Thais. The lower prices are for Thais alone.

You claim that residents with permanent residence status can get in at the lower price, other posters have said this is not the case.

Even if it was it doesn't matter to me. If one person is discriminated against by dual pricing based on nationality then it is wrong. And it's not one. It's all non Thais.

That. Is. The. Policy.

Now the case is closed.

Don't know about the 'case' but clearly your mind is closed to anything other than your incorrect perceptions.

Your latest response is just completely wrong on every count bar one, and even that one is slightly wrong....

You have just shown yourself to be making things up now, and also inferring that the many Non-Thai contributors who have stated they do get resident price are liars.

Fact: The prices are based on residency status - not nationality.

Fact: The lower prices are not for Thais alone, but for anyone who can prove 'permanent' residency status

Fact: It is not all non Thais that do not get resident rate - many non Thai posters have already said they get the lower price, even with just a Thai DL - further proof of facts one and two!

The only fact you have quoted is that some have said they have not got the lower price - but they are almost entirely the ones trying to use a driving license, which is NOT proof of residency.. Only one non-Thai person has claimed he was refused lower price after showing a red book.

Regardless of whether it matters to you or not, the fact that someone may have wrongly been refused resident price has nothing to with the policy, or discrimination on the grounds of nationality, it has only to do with the staff members incorrect enforcement of it...

From the OP

"Replying to Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold"

Says it all really.

Foreigners are to be charged more.

On the basis they are foreign.

Therefore it is discrimination based upon national prejudice.

I have repeatedly told you that it doesn't matter if some can get the "Thai" price (in itself a phrase showing this national price prejudice) if they have certain documents.

The fact is that there exists a prejudicial pricing policy based on nationality. That is discriminatory. That is wrong.

You can finesse around the numbers who can evade it, but the fact is if only one person has to pay it or has to argue about not paying it then there is discrimination in what people pay. Discrimination Thais do not face. Because of their nationality. That is wrong.

As for closed minds......

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Shadychris]

Oh I stand by what I said originally but as all have been warned about flaming I modified it.

All your points above were made over the weekend and I answered them and proved them shallow. Most of these were removed so no point in repeating them or responding to your shallow accusations of hypocrisy.

It doesn't matter if you might not have to pay if you are resident. It's wrong to do it to anyone.

Edit: your argument in your final paragraph. That makes no sense at all.

"Dual pricing in the basis of nationality is wrong. That is what this policy is"

There you go again....! I really dont know how it can be ,made any simpler for you - maybe repeat after me - "it is not dual pricing on the basis of nationality - it is dual pricing based on residency status". Try reading that over and over again a few times - it may sink in ..

I do not have Thai nationality but as a resident with the correct documentation I qualify for the lower rate. So would you if you made the effort to get permanent residence status.

And the only thing you proved over the weekend was that my belief that your views on discrimination were hypocritical was correct. Which is presumably why the mods have allowed that post to remain.

Case closed.

No, not at all, but thanks for the reminder to report it as a flame.

Your case is as weak as ever and you just don't listen. The prices are clearly based on nationality. One for Thais and one for non Thais. The lower prices are for Thais alone.

You claim that residents with permanent residence status can get in at the lower price, other posters have said this is not the case.

Even if it was it doesn't matter to me. If one person is discriminated against by dual pricing based on nationality then it is wrong. And it's not one. It's all non Thais.

That. Is. The. Policy.

Now the case is closed.

Don't know about the 'case' but clearly your mind is closed to anything other than your incorrect perceptions.

Your latest response is just completely wrong on every count bar one, and even that one is slightly wrong....

You have just shown yourself to be making things up now, and also inferring that the many Non-Thai contributors who have stated they do get resident price are liars.

Fact: The prices are based on residency status - not nationality.

Fact: The lower prices are not for Thais alone, but for anyone who can prove 'permanent' residency status

Fact: It is not all non Thais that do not get resident rate - many non Thai posters have already said they get the lower price, even with just a Thai DL - further proof of facts one and two!

The only fact you have quoted is that some have said they have not got the lower price - but they are almost entirely the ones trying to use a driving license, which is NOT proof of residency.. Only one non-Thai person has claimed he was refused lower price after showing a red book.

Regardless of whether it matters to you or not, the fact that someone may have wrongly been refused resident price has nothing to with the policy, or discrimination on the grounds of nationality, it has only to do with the staff members incorrect enforcement of it...

From the OP

"Replying to Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold"

Says it all really.

Foreigners are to be charged more.

On the basis they are foreign.

Therefore it is discrimination based upon national prejudice.

I have repeatedly told you that it doesn't matter if some can get the "Thai" price (in itself a phrase showing this national price prejudice) if they have certain documents.

The fact is that there exists a prejudicial pricing policy based on nationality. That is discriminatory. That is wrong.

You can finesse around the numbers who can evade it, but the fact is if only one person has to pay it or has to argue about not paying it then there is discrimination in what people pay. Discrimination Thais do not face. Because of their nationality. That is wrong.

As for closed minds......

Man that just about sums it up.. You take as verbatim the words of a sensationalist headline crafted to generate clicks and stir up feeling amongst the gullible... (certainly worked in your case) instead of actually looking at the facts!

Also "Thai price" is YOUR phrase - you seem rather fond of disingenuously trying to stir up racist arguments - I have always referred to this as resident or non resident price - which for who knows how many times you've been told, is what it actually is. The only conclusion to be drawn by your constant denial of the facts that have been pointed out to you by several people, along with your disingenuous comments, is that you are merely here to troll. At which point I'll take the usual advice and desist from feeding you further. Have a great day ahead.

[Bluespunk]

Oh I stand by what I said originally but as all have been warned about flaming I modified it.

All your points above were made over the weekend and I answered them and proved them shallow. Most of these were removed so no point in repeating them or responding to your shallow accusations of hypocrisy.

It doesn't matter if you might not have to pay if you are resident. It's wrong to do it to anyone.

Edit: your argument in your final paragraph. That makes no sense at all.

"Dual pricing in the basis of nationality is wrong. That is what this policy is"

There you go again....! I really dont know how it can be ,made any simpler for you - maybe repeat after me - "it is not dual pricing on the basis of nationality - it is dual pricing based on residency status". Try reading that over and over again a few times - it may sink in ..

I do not have Thai nationality but as a resident with the correct documentation I qualify for the lower rate. So would you if you made the effort to get permanent residence status.

And the only thing you proved over the weekend was that my belief that your views on discrimination were hypocritical was correct. Which is presumably why the mods have allowed that post to remain.

Case closed.

No, not at all, but thanks for the reminder to report it as a flame.

Your case is as weak as ever and you just don't listen. The prices are clearly based on nationality. One for Thais and one for non Thais. The lower prices are for Thais alone.

You claim that residents with permanent residence status can get in at the lower price, other posters have said this is not the case.

Even if it was it doesn't matter to me. If one person is discriminated against by dual pricing based on nationality then it is wrong. And it's not one. It's all non Thais.

That. Is. The. Policy.

Now the case is closed.

Don't know about the 'case' but clearly your mind is closed to anything other than your incorrect perceptions.

Your latest response is just completely wrong on every count bar one, and even that one is slightly wrong....

You have just shown yourself to be making things up now, and also inferring that the many Non-Thai contributors who have stated they do get resident price are liars.

Fact: The prices are based on residency status - not nationality.

Fact: The lower prices are not for Thais alone, but for anyone who can prove 'permanent' residency status

Fact: It is not all non Thais that do not get resident rate - many non Thai posters have already said they get the lower price, even with just a Thai DL - further proof of facts one and two!

The only fact you have quoted is that some have said they have not got the lower price - but they are almost entirely the ones trying to use a driving license, which is NOT proof of residency.. Only one non-Thai person has claimed he was refused lower price after showing a red book.

Regardless of whether it matters to you or not, the fact that someone may have wrongly been refused resident price has nothing to with the policy, or discrimination on the grounds of nationality, it has only to do with the staff members incorrect enforcement of it...

From the OP

"Replying to Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold"

Says it all really.

Foreigners are to be charged more.

On the basis they are foreign.

Therefore it is discrimination based upon national prejudice.

I have repeatedly told you that it doesn't matter if some can get the "Thai" price (in itself a phrase showing this national price prejudice) if they have certain documents.

The fact is that there exists a prejudicial pricing policy based on nationality. That is discriminatory. That is wrong.

You can finesse around the numbers who can evade it, but the fact is if only one person has to pay it or has to argue about not paying it then there is discrimination in what people pay. Discrimination Thais do not face. Because of their nationality. That is wrong.

As for closed minds......

Man that just about sums it up.. You take as verbatim the words of a sensationalist headline crafted to generate clicks and stir up feeling amongst the gullible... (certainly worked in your case) instead of actually looking at the facts!

Also "Thai price" is YOUR phrase - you seem rather fond of disingenuously trying to stir up racist arguments - I have always referred to this as resident or non resident price - which for who knows how many times you've been told, is what it actually is. The only conclusion to be drawn by your constant denial of the facts that have been pointed out to you by several people, along with your disingenuous comments, is that you are merely here to troll. At which point I'll take the usual advice and desist from feeding you further. Have a great day ahead.

At no point have I tried to claim that this is racism at play.

Don't even try that argument.

[Bluespunk]

Man that just about sums it up.. You take as verbatim the words of a sensationalist headline crafted to generate clicks and stir up feeling amongst the gullible... (certainly worked in your case) instead of actually looking at the facts!

Also "Thai price" is YOUR phrase - you seem rather fond of disingenuously trying to stir up racist arguments - I have always referred to this as resident or non resident price - which for who knows how many times you've been told, is what it actually is. The only conclusion to be drawn by your constant denial of the facts that have been pointed out to you by several people, along with your disingenuous comments, is that you are merely here to troll. At which point I'll take the usual advice and desist from feeding you further. Have a great day ahead.

You have told me what the case is...no you haven't.

You have tried to avoid the fact that this is discriminatory pricing based on nationality.

That is what this is.

They are the facts.

You constantly claim that resident non Thais can benefit from this discrimination and I keep telling you

A: frequently not the case

B: It doesn't matter if they can. The fact that anyone has to pay a higher price because they are not Thai is wrong.

Non resident Thais pay the lower price.

Why is that now?

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bluespunk

[MartinL]

... "Thai price" is YOUR phrase ... I have always referred to this as resident or non resident price ...

Regardless of how people on this forum choose to refer to differential pricing, the only information I need to make my choice is the description I see on the very rare occasion I go to a NP or any other dual-pricing establishment.

The prices are invariably described as either "Thai" or "Foreigner" (whether in Thai or English) on the tariff board, never as "Resident" or "Non-resident". That's good enough for me to know which side of this argument I fall on.

[DM07]

You're absurd. All foreigners are supposed to carry their passports with them at all times, and all Thais are supposed to carry their ID cards or another acceptable form of identification at all times. So there's nothing absurd about requiring them to be shown, since everyone is already supposed to be carrying an appropriate ID. Also, not every nationality would have a different fee imposed. Perhaps only 20 out of the total number of possible nationalities would have a different fee imposed, many others would just be levied the same fee i.e. Samoa, French Polynesia, Vanuatu, etc. basically only the bigger nationalities would likely have a different fee imposed, besides, what are the chances of someone from say Papua New Guinea ever visiting a national park in Thailand anyway? And why should the fees need to be "updated"? They could just be kept static until an order declares they should be changed once a year or perhaps only once every 5 years.

Hey as I already said, Italy DID this. I didn't make it up, they DID this. So if they were able to do it, it doesn't mean Thailand or other countries couldn't. It's not rocket science either.

At border checkpoints the officers also have a manual printed list of nationalities detailing their visa, visa-free, VOA entitlements etc. so I don't see any reason why park officials couldn't implement a similar system. And oh, in case you forgot, there are these things called computers now where at the click of a mouse you could see what someone's entitlements are, rather than having to look through a printed list, like as if we were still living in 1965 as you might still be. What did you use to write your message then, huh?

As I've maintained before and most other people have stated, being fair and not discriminating against anyone, entitling everyone to pay the same price would be best. BUT, a system where different people are charged different amounts depending on their nationalities, while still in a way a form of discrimination would be more reasonable than the current system and as I've stated before it has precedence. It's been done before, it's nothing radical. So stop blasting this relatively simple to implement idea and learn how to use Google.

What Italy did in the past from what i can see is no longer true. One price fits all these days.

"One price fits all these days"

Far from it... Children and elderly get different prices - discrimination by age you could claim. Lower prices for disabled - why should they pay any less than able bodied people - isn't that discrimination against able bodied people? How about different rates for larger groups? Why should the individuals in a group of say 10 or more, pay less per person than those individuals in a large family group of 9? And of course Thailand, like some other SE Asian countries, also chooses to charge more to non-resident tourists, who it is reasonable to assume have much more disposable income than the 70 plus percentage (approx 48 million) of Thais who are classed as living below the poverty line. So one price doesn't 'fit all' these days.

Special prices for children, the elderly or handicapped people are the same as special prices by nationality?

Got it!

...you are clutching at straws!

[Dolf123]

Had a look at the waterfall on doi sutep last week..20 bath for Thai. And 100 Bath for falang. Never will pay that! And never will visit any national park in the future.

[garrya]

Last time when I was in a national park I saw hoards of locals picnicking on the grass and in the water. We climbed up to the waterfall then an hour later we decided it's time to descend. The scene welcomed us was shocking. Tons of rubbish left on the grass and in (!!!) the water. Rolling plastic bottles and flying plastic bags made the scene appalling. Yet, foreigners are to pay more. Thainess at its best?

Words fail me.

[hawker9000]

I wonder how the beloved Chinese will take to it... (My guess is the thais won't dare subject them to it in most cases.)

Edited February 13, 2015 by hawker9000

[Robby nz]

30 page of foolish rants now, if you don't like it please don't go, the parks will be better off with you moaning lot.

Me, I just got back yesterday from 5 nights camped in a national park, planned on 4 nights but decided to stay an extra night, total cost for 5 nights 500b for me the lady and the car.

Tell me where in the world can you spend a night in a camping ground for only 100b ?

Spent most of each day wandering around in the forest, the sounds, sights and smells of which are fantastic and of course something the ranters on here will never know or understand.

Saw some great bird life, some that I have never seen before and the lady even saw a wild pig, unfortunately I missed that so no photo.

Will do another trip to a different park next month. Once again please stay away.

[Sealbash]

The headline may be misleading. It may be that if you can prove Thai citizenship you get a 90% discount, not that every one else is charged more. There was a golf course in a province in Canada. If you could prove residence of that province, you got a substantial discount. It was not that they charged non-residents more, it was that they gave residents a discount.

[Shadychris]

I wonder how the beloved Chinese will take to it... (My guess is the thais won't dare subject them to it in most cases.)

You might be surprised - especially as to whether they won't have to pay non-resident rate.

I was at a Myanmar Temple out Pak Chong way with my GF not so long ago - Coach loads of Chinese tourists there and the ones in front of us were charged non resident entry fee.

A lot of the Thais I know don't have a good opinion of Chinese tourists - At that temple we were feeling hungry, and I headed towards the nearest eatery, but there were a lot of Chinese eating there already. She pulled me past it scowling and muttering 'Chinese - bad etiquette' under her breath... I've also noticed at other places that Thais tend to hang out as far away from groups of Chinese as possible. So maybe not always quite as beloved by Thais as you might think....

[garyk]

When they started going up and stoped taking my drivers license for the better rate. This is what I do.

Since I like to view and photograph wildlife. I pick a time where the weather is more comfortable. Pack up my tent and all my camping supplys. Food water what ever I need to survive.

When I get to the check in and they ask me how long I will be there I say 7 days. My entrance fee is 400 baht. Then the minimum for everyday after that.

The bigger parks are getting strict.

What a rip off for me since I live here.

[outboard]

INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FORMS OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION

PART I

Article 1

1. In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

2. This Convention shall not apply to distinctions, exclusions, restrictions or preferences made by a State Party to this Convention between citizens and non-citizens.

3. Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as affecting in any way the legal provisions of States Parties concerning nationality, citizenship or naturalization, provided that such provisions do not discriminate against any particular nationality.

4. Special measures taken for the sole purpose of securing adequate advancement of certain racial or ethnic groups or individuals requiring such protection as may be necessary in order to ensure such groups or individuals equal enjoyment or exercise of human rights and fundamental freedoms shall not be deemed racial discrimination, provided, however, that such measures do not, as a consequence, lead to the maintenance of separate rights for different racial groups and that they shall not be continued after the objectives for which they were taken have been achieved.

This is the international law, If your country is a member of the UN then your countries anti-discrimination laws are based on this and obligated by this!

As the Thai Governments policy is demonstrably following this convention it is not discrimination.

Anyone that is calling the policy discrimination is mistaken and should take the time to learn what discrimination is so they are well informed and do not inadvertently defame a person or entity by publishing libellous statements.

Charging on the basis of nationality is discriminatory.

no it is not

Edit: Here is a link to the cited material: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx

Edited February 16, 2015 by Scott
Link added

[djjamie]

Wonderful idea and I welcome this with open arms. However I only welcome it if the money is going towards conservation programs and to building and maintaining facilities in the national parks.

It is good to see Thailand catching up to Australia. In NSW alone the entrance fee is $7 or 180 THB across the board. So with Thai's paying 40 baht and westerners paying 400 baht that would work our more or less similar to Australian returns.

Well done again and it is good to see the Junta following through on their promise of forest conservation.

[Neeranam]

Problem is that most Filipinos, Malaysians, Indonesians, Laotians, Burmese, Cambodians, Chinese and even Japanese and Koreans among other generic Asians get the local price too if they shut their mouths and smile.

How is this a problem? Good luck to them. Good luck to the farang who live here and open their mouths to show they can speak Thai and get the local discount.

People tell me to take my Work Permit or Yellow House registration but I'm always with Thai nationals and speak well enough to get in. There was one place that wouldn't - a park in Pi Mai, so I never went in - no problem.

Anyone who can't speak or read like a 4 year old shouldn't get the local discount IMHO. If integration into the community is not on your priority list them pay up and shut up.

[cumgranosalum]

30 page of foolish rants now, if you don't like it please don't go, the parks will be better off with you moaning lot.

Me, I just got back yesterday from 5 nights camped in a national park, planned on 4 nights but decided to stay an extra night, total cost for 5 nights 500b for me the lady and the car.

Tell me where in the world can you spend a night in a camping ground for only 100b ?

Spent most of each day wandering around in the forest, the sounds, sights and smells of which are fantastic and of course something the ranters on here will never know or understand.

Saw some great bird life, some that I have never seen before and the lady even saw a wild pig, unfortunately I missed that so no photo.

Will do another trip to a different park next month. Once again please stay away.

There is always one post from someone who is so poor at putting an argument they think that the following IS a valid point.......

"If you don't like it please don't go, the parks will be better off with you moaning lot."

tThis ranks along side the "why don't you go home" "if you criticise anything in Thailand, and has to be amongst the most facetious arguments anyone can make.....sad thing is they never seem to realise it!

the rest is just baseless assumption - he obviously doesn't know much about camping either.

Edited February 15, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[chang1]

This may or may not be discrimination depending on which countries law you are judging it on. It only applies to non residents so I presume that is not discrimination in Thailand. As I am a visitor they can do what they want and it is up to me if I pay or go elsewhere.

The big problem is that it is perceived by tourists to be a very discriminatory/racist act against a non Asian minority. So, although it is legal, people will find it offensive, even if it does not affect them. In the UK we have had it drummed into us that you can never treat a minority worse than the majority. This applies to any group or individual of a race, religion, hair colour, language skills, singing ability, hearing ability etc. etc.

If my wife tried to charge non residents 10 times (using the logic visitors have more money) what UK residents pay in her restaurant she would make all the papers. Then there would be the practical problems of proving customers residential status. If she only asked for proof from non whites all hell would brake out as it would be seen as extremely racist.

Thailand can keep the 2 tier charges but should also think about the damage it does to tourism as well - not going to happen with their live for today attitude to money.

Why should farang residents be given the "discount" when they can just as easily afford 400 Baht as a tourist can? Maybe the rules should be that you have been resident for 80% of your life - that should be a legal way to fleece more farang.

In short it may be legal but most tourists will see it as discrimination and/or racist.

[Shadychris]

30 page of foolish rants now, if you don't like it please don't go, the parks will be better off with you moaning lot.

Me, I just got back yesterday from 5 nights camped in a national park, planned on 4 nights but decided to stay an extra night, total cost for 5 nights 500b for me the lady and the car.

Tell me where in the world can you spend a night in a camping ground for only 100b ?

Spent most of each day wandering around in the forest, the sounds, sights and smells of which are fantastic and of course something the ranters on here will never know or understand.

Saw some great bird life, some that I have never seen before and the lady even saw a wild pig, unfortunately I missed that so no photo.

Will do another trip to a different park next month. Once again please stay away.

There is always one post from someone who is so poor at putting an argument they think that the following IS a valid point.......

"If you don't like it please don't go, the parks will be better off with you moaning lot."

tThis ranks along side the "why don't you go home" "if you criticise anything in Thailand, and has to be amongst the most facetious arguments anyone can make.....sad thing is they never seem to realise it!

the rest is just baseless assumption - he obviously doesn't know much about camping either.

I agree with you. Saying "if you don't like it don't go" is not a valid arguement Similarly if someone is critical of something in Thailand, being told that "if you don't like it you should go home" is innapropriate.

To be fair though there seems to be a hardcore body of members on this forum with thousands of posts each to their names who seem to only want to repeatedly criticize anything and everything they can about Thailand, and just continue to do so day in day out. There is something slightly disturbing to me about that sort of behaviour, and I think it is that group that Robby nz refers to.

I think in cases where people consciously choose to put themselves in a situation that they are so deeply unhappy with that they spend so much time and effort voicing their misery publicly, then it is quite valid to ask them why they dont take action to extricate themselves from that situation instead.

If you buy a car and there are things about it you dont like then you either change those things if you can, or you sell it. If you marry a woman and she turns out not to be the one for you then you get a divorce because you wont be able to change her. Living in Thailand I would suggest is more like the latter case - you are not going to change things.

BTW from my schooldays memories of Latin I'm not sure your name means what you think it does... If you intended it to mean 'with a grain of salt' I think you will find it should be cum grano salis - not salum. Salum typically means sea which used in your context does not make sense.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

BTW from my schooldays memories of Latin I'm not sure your name means what you think it does... If you intended it to mean 'with a grain of salt' I think you will find it should be cum grano salis - not salum. Salum typically means sea which used in your context does not make sense.