Police Crackdown on Prostitution in Chiang Mai!

[harryfrompattaya]

Is there still any reason to plan a holiday to Chiang Mai? I defenitely DON'T come for elephant rides.

Unless you're coming for trafficked women or underage girls, nothing will have changed.

You must be kidding. You`ll be lucky to find women of ill repute under the age of 40 in the Loi Kroh road and surrounding areas. In those areas women less than 35 years old are considered underage and females in their 20s as absolute cradle snatching. Most of it is crap, but now it seems they`re even taking the crap away. Heartless swines.

I have been warning for a long time that the clamp downs will progressively increase in Chiang Mai, having first hand word of all the rumours well in advance. In fact I was giving out tip offs as to what is to come. I estimate that within the next 5 years, perhaps less, that the adult entertainments scene of Chiang Mai will be totally eradicated. Replaced by more eating establishments, unneeded shopping malls and boring yuppie market walking streets.

Another tip off, for those considering opening beerbars in Chiang Mai, beware, you are investing in a loser, go south young man.

Don't go South young man that will end too, go East to Cambodia where life is cheaper, the girls were kinder, visa at the 7/11, food is cheaper and cheese and wine are cheap. Reminds me of Thailand from the 70's

Are you CIA or a dreamer?

[Chiengmaijoe]

Is there still any reason to plan a holiday to Chiang Mai? I defenitely DON'T come for elephant rides.

Unless you're coming for trafficked women or underage girls, nothing will have changed.

You must be kidding. You`ll be lucky to find women of ill repute under the age of 40 in the Loi Kroh road and surrounding areas. In those areas women less than 35 years old are considered underage and females in their 20s as absolute cradle snatching. Most of it is crap, but now it seems they`re even taking the crap away. Heartless swines.

I have been warning for a long time that the clamp downs will progressively increase in Chiang Mai, having first hand word of all the rumours well in advance. In fact I was giving out tip offs as to what is to come. I estimate that within the next 5 years, perhaps less, that the adult entertainments scene of Chiang Mai will be totally eradicated. Replaced by more eating establishments, unneeded shopping malls and boring yuppie market walking streets.

Another tip off, for those considering opening beerbars in Chiang Mai, beware, you are investing in a loser, go south young man.

With regard to the last paragraph, opening a Beer Bar is one thing, but the big problem seems to be opening a Girlie Bar, which is quite another thing, and this is what the police are targeting. My advice about doing that would be don't do it, police crackdown or not, North or South.

Let's be real, if you are running a Girlie bar that involves working against the law and that will mean getting involved with unsavoury characters and the police. Some people like to think of bar-owners in these places as being good guys that take care of their staff but the reality is that although these guys might like to tell you that they pay the Girls well and that they don't have to go with a customer , the reality is that more often than not, most Girls will be out of a job if they don't generate enough Bar Fines. Since the Bar Fines are paid when a customer wants to take a girl out for sex and the money will go into the bar-owners pocket he is effectively a pimp. So, using the politically incorrect terminology, if you want to become a pimp, DON'T.

Just to clarify, I have no objection to consensual prostitution, I just don't like the idea of the girls being sacked if they don't meet their quota, so not being free to choose. I also don't think most guys getting into that business realise what they are getting into. If you want to break the law in your own country that is one thing, but generally speaking, getting involved in prostitution in a foreign country is not advisable.

The recent story here of a foreign bar-owner letting a customer go out with a member of his staff knowing full well that 'she' is HIV positive is an indication of what some of these nice guy bar-owners are really like.

[Mcffee]

I have many fond memories of that area from the past, old friends some now departed, made many new friends, wine, women and song and loads of laughs that was affordable. We were not sexpats, just a bunch of lads out for social. The whole area was heaving with farangs of all nationalities and ages at the time. The Spotlight used to be packed out on most nights plus some great shows on stage. Little did I know at the time that the scene would end up like this.

2 weeks ago I drove passed what used to be the Las Vegas bar. Now it`s just a derelict building with the fading Las Vegas sign still showing over the door. Many other of my old haunts went the same way. I think the beginning of the end was when they levelled all the little open bars close by where the Foxy Lady is located now and then planted trees in the area.

Sad, sad, sad.

The great times of the walk-trough bars leaning on Night Bazar building, and the former D2 parking bar area -with a open air cocktailcorner under the old tree along Chiangklan road- will never come back...

[bangmai]

Is there still any reason to plan a holiday to Chiang Mai? I defenitely DON'T come for elephant rides.

Unless you're coming for trafficked women or underage girls, nothing will have changed.

You must be kidding. You`ll be lucky to find women of ill repute under the age of 40 in the Loi Kroh road and surrounding areas. In those areas women less than 35 years old are considered underage and females in their 20s as absolute cradle snatching. Most of it is crap, but now it seems they`re even taking the crap away. Heartless swines.

I have been warning for a long time that the clamp downs will progressively increase in Chiang Mai, having first hand word of all the rumours well in advance. In fact I was giving out tip offs as to what is to come. I estimate that within the next 5 years, perhaps less, that the adult entertainments scene of Chiang Mai will be totally eradicated. Replaced by more eating establishments, unneeded shopping malls and boring yuppie market walking streets.

Another tip off, for those considering opening beerbars in Chiang Mai, beware, you are investing in a loser, go south young man.

With regard to the last paragraph, opening a Beer Bar is one thing, but the big problem seems to be opening a Girlie Bar, which is quite another thing, and this is what the police are targeting. My advice about doing that would be don't do it, police crackdown or not, North or South.

Let's be real, if you are running a Girlie bar that involves working against the law and that will mean getting involved with unsavoury characters and the police. Some people like to think of bar-owners in these places as being good guys that take care of their staff but the reality is that although these guys might like to tell you that they pay the Girls well and that they don't have to go with a customer , the reality is that more often than not, most Girls will be out of a job if they don't generate enough Bar Fines. Since the Bar Fines are paid when a customer wants to take a girl out for sex and the money will go into the bar-owners pocket he is effectively a pimp. So, using the politically incorrect terminology, if you want to become a pimp, DON'T.

Just to clarify, I have no objection to consensual prostitution, I just don't like the idea of the girls being sacked if they don't meet their quota, so not being free to choose. I also don't think most guys getting into that business realise what they are getting into. If you want to break the law in your own country that is one thing, but generally speaking, getting involved in prostitution in a foreign country is not advisable.

The recent story here of a foreign bar-owner letting a customer go out with a member of his staff knowing full well that 'she' is HIV positive is an indication of what some of these nice guy bar-owners are really like.

I agree, and the bar fining thing can really border on indentured servitude. Perhaps, they are getting a room or meals, etc..., and in some cases they have quotas on lady drinks, as well as customers; some even owe the bar on "payday."

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Is there still any reason to plan a holiday to Chiang Mai? I defenitely DON'T come for elephant rides.

Unless you're coming for trafficked women or underage girls, nothing will have changed.

You must be kidding. You`ll be lucky to find women of ill repute under the age of 40 in the Loi Kroh road and surrounding areas. In those areas women less than 35 years old are considered underage and females in their 20s as absolute cradle snatching. Most of it is crap, but now it seems they`re even taking the crap away. Heartless swines.

I have been warning for a long time that the clamp downs will progressively increase in Chiang Mai, having first hand word of all the rumours well in advance. In fact I was giving out tip offs as to what is to come. I estimate that within the next 5 years, perhaps less, that the adult entertainments scene of Chiang Mai will be totally eradicated. Replaced by more eating establishments, unneeded shopping malls and boring yuppie market walking streets.

Another tip off, for those considering opening beerbars in Chiang Mai, beware, you are investing in a loser, go south young man.

Funny how you always have inside information.

[Cholmondley]

I was here then and never heard of any such thing, but 15 and 16 year old girls were fairly common. Girls that age were not unknown on Patpong either, but seemed to be there voluntarily. The girls in the Thai brothels were often along the lines of indentured servants, back in those days. They had to pay off their parent's debts before they could leave.

15 and 16 year old girls "seemed to be there voluntarily" ?

[Ulysses G.]

Lots of girls were married with children at that age, back then.

[Dante99]

True and quite common in much of the world today.

[JulieM]

Now that the scene is moving more and more on-line, I guess it's going to be harder to convince people that these young woman are being trafficked. From what I have seen they are voluntarily in it for the money. Sometimes for themselves, often to support a child being cared for my Mom and Dad.

Edited February 8, 2015 by JulieM

[bangmai]

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Well, some NGOs are crazy enough to just blame Facebook with trafficking. Or whoever clicks 'Like'.

[northernjohn]

Are they cracking down on male prostitution?

[brewsterbudgen]

Are they cracking down on male prostitution?

Absolutely, if they are underage or non-Thai.

[cheeryble]

Unless you can provide some substantive evidence in the form of sources, I regard this as an urban myth.

I first came here in 1978, and have lived in Chiang Mai full time since 1990. I did not frequent the establishments on Kamphaeng Din, but they were already few and far between by 1990 and I saw and heard no evidence to support your claim. And I am a journalist who has reported on paedophilia in Chiang Mai for the Melbourne Age... Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

Please feel free to prove me wrong with some solid evidence.

Wm James rightly said:

"We think we are thinking when mostly we are just re-arranging our prejudices."

I reckon there are often interested parties who wish to fulfil their view of the world and horror stories of child prostitution may be one of them.....a shame as genuine cases need stamping out and this case may be weakened by myths or headline-grabs.

An interesting example is in the book "An Australian in China.....being the narrative of a quiet journey across China to Burma"

In this book from a century ago the author interacts a lot with missionaries, usually living quite comfortably, and these people were the main source of information about China to those back home.....and this of course brought the funding rolling in from shocked British citizens.

One of the big stories promulgated was that of the horror of the opium addiction.

In fact the author discussed his bearers who took opium daily but were happy, very fit indeed, and worked brilliantly, so we saw another side.

The fact while none of us want to see underage girls etc being exploited is there seem to still be crusading farang who are prompting the Thai authorities to do unto the world as they the farang see fit.

I have heard first hand of a raid on a late night bar many years ago where Americans accompanied the raid.

In reality it seems they were leading it.

A friend who liked a late night beer and all the normal bars were closed was with a girl he had befriended and met many times....just for a beer.... was arrested and held for some time and grilled in a very accusatorial manner by the Americans about liking underage girls only for it to come to nothing and the girl who was just earning her lady drink cut turned out to be in her twenties.

I went to a day at the sports field south of Changpuak I think it was Independence Day about five years ago and I was horrified to hear the guy leading the introduction ask everyone to bow their heads and pray. And many did.

A shame this type of completely unauthorised activity detracts from the good work done by the many marvellous Christians who have devoted their lives to doing work here which we would all agree is good.

Genuine abuse happens everywhere and no not good.

So agree Dru2.... let's stick to good information.

Edited February 9, 2015 by cheeryble

[Chicog]

was arrested and held for some time and grilled in a very accusatorial manner by the Americans

An appropriate response would have been to tell them to ---- off and mind their own business.

[onthedarkside]

Troll post removed.

[hawker9000]

was arrested and held for some time and grilled in a very accusatorial manner by the Americans

An appropriate response would have been to tell them to ---- off and mind their own business.

If you were actually arrested, as you say you were, then you should've been told that you had the right, among other things, to remain silent. You didn't have to answer anything, and you knew that (that is, if you were actually arrested...).

[dru2]

was arrested and held for some time and grilled in a very accusatorial manner by the Americans

An appropriate response would have been to tell them to ---- off and mind their own business.

If you were actually arrested, as you say you were, then you should've been told that you had the right, among other things, to remain silent. You didn't have to answer anything, and you knew that (that is, if you were actually arrested...).

...A friend who liked a late night beer and all the normal bars were closed was with a girl he had befriended and met many times....just for a beer.... was arrested...

Read the post before you reply, for Chrissakes.

[cheeryble]

was arrested and held for some time and grilled in a very accusatorial manner by the Americans

An appropriate response would have been to tell them to ---- off and mind their own business.

Right of course Chicog but as you can imagine he was rather stunned and scared.

BTW when i mentioned the call to prayer at Independence Day what was shocking was it was an event funded by the US Embassy.....completely against the rules for government funded events surely?

If memory serves i sent them a complaint.

[amexpat]

"BTW when i mentioned the call to prayer at Independence Day what was shocking was it was an event funded by the US Embassy.....completely against the rules for government funded events surely?"

One would hope. But the National Prayer Breakfast, started by Lincoln, is hosted by Congress. I guess separation just means churches don't pay taxes on their portfolios.

[Awk]

was arrested and held for some time and grilled in a very accusatorial manner by the Americans

An appropriate response would have been to tell them to ---- off and mind their own business.

Right of course Chicog but as you can imagine he was rather stunned and scared.

Well, that's what happens in real life. On the Internet, anyone can tell anyone to <removed> off, of course.

[Chicog]

was arrested and held for some time and grilled in a very accusatorial manner by the Americans

An appropriate response would have been to tell them to ---- off and mind their own business.

Right of course Chicog but as you can imagine he was rather stunned and scared.

Well, that's what happens in real life. On the Internet, anyone can tell anyone to <removed> off, of course.

If arrested in Thailand, you are entitled to know what you are charged with.

You are also entitled to know what the f--- a couple of American curtain twitchers have to do with it.

[bangmai]

"BTW when i mentioned the call to prayer at Independence Day what was shocking was it was an event funded by the US Embassy.....completely against the rules for government funded events surely?"

One would hope. But the National Prayer Breakfast, started by Lincoln, is hosted by Congress. I guess separation just means churches don't pay taxes on their portfolios.

The US Constitution does not call for separation of church and State, but calls for no State Church, like England and many others have. A very common misconception.

I was shocked that the Consulate allowed a purely Democrat organization to set up and register voters at the 2008, 4 July "party."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

A more specific article from Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2011/07/09/the-true-meaning-of-separation-of-church-and-state/

Edited February 9, 2015 by bangmai

[Tokay]

Unless you can provide some substantive evidence in the form of sources, I regard this as an urban myth.

I first came here in 1978, and have lived in Chiang Mai full time since 1990. I did not frequent the establishments on Kamphaeng Din, but they were already few and far between by 1990 and I saw and heard no evidence to support your claim. And I am a journalist who has reported on paedophilia in Chiang Mai for the Melbourne Age... Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

Please feel free to prove me wrong with some solid evidence.

You didn't know about it, therefor it did not exist.

There are all sorts of horrible things scattered about Thailand that you may or may not know about. Sometimes where you would least expect them. One thing is for sure, such places generally don't have a blinking light outside advertising to strangers.

I have no doubt you could find children around same age working today in Chiang Mai (or anywhere in Thailand) for Thai clients, and the whole ring is probably operated by someone in the police or military.

You 'have no doubt', therefore it did / does exist? Get real.

I interviewed two genuine underage female sex workers in Pattaya 21 years ago. One was aged 9 and one aged 12. They were 'working' openly at a bar on the old pier. I asked them about lack of police concern, and the older one went over and tapped on the window of the nearby police booth before chatting with the 'officer' on duty. It was very clear that the police knew and did not care.

My report made two full pages in The Nation. The Post declined to publish it as 'everyone knew already'.

And you feel qualified to comment? Conspiracy theory nonsense indeed. Go out and collect some facts, or keep quiet.

21 years ago... The year is 2015. You can still find kids of that age for sale in Pattaya in some areas, such as outside Tukcom in the daytime. They (boys) stand outside smoking, trying to look adult, and offering BJs to older males as they go in and out of the building. It is not uncommon for beach girls in Pattaya to offer younger girls to you after you trike up a convo with them. I lived there for 8 years, was offered the lot on a regular basis. A couple of the street girls in CM have offered the same. Go ask them yourself.

You are a journalist. No offense, but that doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about a subject. It means you followed your leads as far as they would allow you to go. Most pieces I've ever read on prostitution or trafficking coming out of Thailand are hit and run jobs with partial information. I didn't read what you wrote, especially if it was 21 years ago, but rest assured that 21 years ago there were kids openly for sale in every nook and cranny of this country. Thailand is a grimy place. Still is. The only thing that has changed is it has gone more underground. And that is a fact.

[Ulysses G.]

You claimed before that there was organized prostitution in Chiang Mai with 7 year old children being sold in brothels, but have provided no evidence what-so-ever. That is a far cry from a few underage prostitutes selling themselves on street corners in Pattaya. The same thing probably happens in every country on earth - including Western ones - with runaways and kids involved in the drug culture.

I don't believe that there was organized prostitution in Chiang Mai, with 7 year old children being sold, on a large scale in modern history and you certainly have not proved it. .

Edited February 10, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[elektrified]

You claimed before that there was organized prostitution in Chiang Mai with 7 year old children being sold in brothels, but have provided no evidence what-so-ever. That is a far cry from a few underage prostitutes selling themselves on street corners in Pattaya. The same thing probably happens in every country on earth - including Western ones - with runaways and kids involved in the drug culture.

I don't believe that there was organized prostitution in Chiang Mai, with 7 year old children being sold, on a large scale in modern history and you certainly have not proved it. .

Actually it was another member "Mcffee" that made the claim.

[dru2]

Unless you can provide some substantive evidence in the form of sources, I regard this as an urban myth.

I first came here in 1978, and have lived in Chiang Mai full time since 1990. I did not frequent the establishments on Kamphaeng Din, but they were already few and far between by 1990 and I saw and heard no evidence to support your claim. And I am a journalist who has reported on paedophilia in Chiang Mai for the Melbourne Age... Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

Please feel free to prove me wrong with some solid evidence.

You didn't know about it, therefor it did not exist.

There are all sorts of horrible things scattered about Thailand that you may or may not know about. Sometimes where you would least expect them. One thing is for sure, such places generally don't have a blinking light outside advertising to strangers.

I have no doubt you could find children around same age working today in Chiang Mai (or anywhere in Thailand) for Thai clients, and the whole ring is probably operated by someone in the police or military.

You 'have no doubt', therefore it did / does exist? Get real.

I interviewed two genuine underage female sex workers in Pattaya 21 years ago. One was aged 9 and one aged 12. They were 'working' openly at a bar on the old pier. I asked them about lack of police concern, and the older one went over and tapped on the window of the nearby police booth before chatting with the 'officer' on duty. It was very clear that the police knew and did not care.

My report made two full pages in The Nation. The Post declined to publish it as 'everyone knew already'.

And you feel qualified to comment? Conspiracy theory nonsense indeed. Go out and collect some facts, or keep quiet.

...A couple of the street girls in CM have offered the same. Go ask them yourself...

...Rest assured that 21 years ago there were kids openly for sale in every nook and cranny of this country...

...And that is a fact...

How utterly unconvincing.

[billphillips]

Presumably the 50 year old was a Madame?

Or a ladyboy !

[amexpat]

The US Constitution does not call for separation of church and State, but calls for no State Church, like England and many others have. A very common misconception.

I was shocked that the Consulate allowed a purely Democrat organization to set up and register voters at the 2008, 4 July "party."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

A more specific article from Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2011/07/09/the-true-meaning-of-separation-of-church-and-state/

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly used by the Supreme Court of the United States.

...]

Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state."^[2]

But the US constitution says nothing about prostitution in Chiang Mai.

[Ulysses G.]

You claimed before that there was organized prostitution in Chiang Mai with 7 year old children being sold in brothels, but have provided no evidence what-so-ever. That is a far cry from a few underage prostitutes selling themselves on street corners in Pattaya. The same thing probably happens in every country on earth - including Western ones - with runaways and kids involved in the drug culture.

I don't believe that there was organized prostitution in Chiang Mai, with 7 year old children being sold, on a large scale in modern history and you certainly have not proved it. .

Actually it was another member "Mcffee" that made the claim.

Sorry, I should have gone back further in the thread and looked.