Police Crackdown on Prostitution in Chiang Mai!

[roo860]

Underage is one thing, trafficked is another... If a woman is of legal age and works in a bar of her own volition, how is that trafficking? To me it means that a woman has been more or less kidnapped and is working in the adult industry against her will... As with many terms, this one is over used...

Yes. Case in point, this article that Google found for me today. (I'm subscribed to articles of this type, mostly for comic relief. ) Today I got a particularly good one that shows that lots of people have no idea bout trafficking, and even less about Thailand:

http://www.theclause.org/2015/02/student-visits-thailand-to-fight-against-human-trafficking/

Josh Holm, junior theology major and president of the Free the Captives club at Azusa Pacific University, took a 2 1/2-week mission trip to Thailand during Christmas break in order to help fight human trafficking.

And it gets better from there onwards.

Just read it!! What a pisser, don't ya just love these kids!!!!!!!!

I ran into a bunch of these crusaders in Angeles City a while back... They were carrying cameras, filming punters and trying to interview girls that had been "trafficked"... I couldn't resist getting in their face, asking what they expected these girls to do as they had zero education, no options and needed to feed their families... After which they promptly did an about-face and ran the other way... Never try to convince a crusader that their reality is flawed as they don't want to know... White-bread Christians from upper-middle class American families don't have a clue as to how to world works...

Too right mate!!!!!!!!!

[FolkGuitar]

Underage is one thing, trafficked is another... If a woman is of legal age and works in a bar of her own volition, how is that trafficking? To me it means that a woman has been more or less kidnapped and is working in the adult industry against her will... As with many terms, this one is over used...

Yes. Case in point, this article that Google found for me today. (I'm subscribed to articles of this type, mostly for comic relief. ) Today I got a particularly good one that shows that lots of people have no idea bout trafficking, and even less about Thailand:

http://www.theclause.org/2015/02/student-visits-thailand-to-fight-against-human-trafficking/

Josh Holm, junior theology major and president of the Free the Captives club at Azusa Pacific University, took a 2 1/2-week mission trip to Thailand during Christmas break in order to help fight human trafficking.

And it gets better from there onwards.

Gotta give the kid credit... He did sacrifice an entire 2 1/2 weeks to his task to bring God to the heathens... Just think what he could have accomplished had he spent a full three weeks...

I love his line; "“Ninety-eight percent of the country [Thailand] is Buddhist, and so a country that lacks in Christianity or even hearing about the message of God is hard to present a lifestyle or a message of hope when that has been so absent from the country,” Holm said. I realize that Azusa is a pretty small town, and APU isn't one of the Ivy League schools, but don't they teach American History there. and how the Native Americans were brutalized by the Missionary Schools?

[mango66]

Is there still any reason to plan a holiday to Chiang Mai? I defenitely DON'T come for elephant rides.

even in Pattaya you will find some of them,

thinking you ride on an elephant !!

[Beetlejuice]

You must be kidding. You`ll be lucky to find women of ill repute under the age of 40 in the Loi Kroh road and surrounding areas. In those areas women less than 35 years old are considered underage and females in their 20s as absolute cradle snatching. Most of it is crap, but now it seems they`re even taking the crap away. Heartless swines.

I have been warning for a long time that the clamp downs will progressively increase in Chiang Mai, having first hand word of all the rumours well in advance.

You now start contradicting yourself within a single post.

You have all the inside information when it comes to law enforcement and police policy, yet here we have it in black and white that girls under 18 were found by that same police force, yet you dismiss this and keep at the tired theme that 'everyone' there are old hags.

You can't have it both ways.

(If you would visit a bit more often you'd find that most staff are in their twenties or early thirties, a minority is over 35 and an even tinier minority is under 18. But there are some under 18. (16 and 17, but that's still under 18.) Another thing we may disagree about is that there is something wrong with women over 35, and that this age group would be somehow detrimental to the enjoyment of wine and song. I'm over 35 myself and enjoy talking with women of any age when in a bar. (Or men for that matter.) I assume we do agree that girls under 18 do not belong in bars.)

I have many fond memories of that area from the past, old friends some now departed, made many new friends, wine, women and song and loads of laughs that was affordable. We were not sexpats, just a bunch of lads out for social. The whole area was heaving with farangs of all nationalities and ages at the time. The Spotlight used to be packed out on most nights plus some great shows on stage. Little did I know at the time that the scene would end up like this.

My, the past does get better with time doesn't it. I visited Las Vegas (the CM bar) 20 years or so ago and it was one of the saddest places I've ever been to. And: Spotlight ever had shows? It may have had the occasional girl or two putting a bit of extra effort into her shift, but let's not fool ourselves: it was always a parade of 3-4 groups of 4-5 bikini-clad women shuffling to sad 80's songs, with awkward German bands with big 80's hair featuring far too prominently in the same tired playlist.

Here, for old times' sake, a Modern Talking playlist.

Now, I will say that I had good times at Spotlight in the 1990s and early naughties, but its decline is completely due to the owners having stopped caring long ago and make any kind of effort other than to raise prices; prices used to be just a couple baht over any other bar, these days it seems they think they're located in Soi Cowboy. At the same time, tourist-oriented nightlife has expanded in Chiang Mai, providing more options. The decline of spotlight has nothing to do with any legal policy but is entirely their own doing. (Or lack of doing) It's operating the exact same way as always, which is probably part of the problem.

Well, now it seems you are also contradicting yourself.

Of course I detest the thought of underage persons working in bars or anywhere else within the adult entertainments industries. All I can say is that I have never seen evidence of this in Chiang Mai, only read about it, or perhaps they are kept discreetly in the background or I have been oblivious to it. As for the age of the women, as they say; one man`s meat is another man`s poison.

Whatever, I do not totally disagreeing with what you say, but in my opinion the Chiang Mai nightlife and adult entertainments scene has become abysmal, again some may disagree depending on preferences and lifestyle.

[hawker9000]

I can't blame the Thai government or police for the crackdown thats been going on through out Thailand.

The United States placed them on Tier 3. Economic Sanctions would follow if they did not comply.

It was interesting to listen to some Thai's point of view. I was sitting with a group of Thai's (included Thai women) who were discussing the situation. They laid it straight at me, i had to defend myself in the discussion as i am not an American. But what they said made sense.

Why has America made itself the policeman of the so called "free world"? They traffic weapons into Mexico & South America which kills 10s of thousands of people each year. They seem to allow the trafficking of drugs into their country. They have human trafficking coming in from the south of their country. Everyone in the world can be held accountable for war crimes, except Americans. The Americans have caused the deaths of millions of people through the world with their wars since the end of the Second World War. They even said the Ukraine War was another of America's proxy wars against Russia. The US doesn't want prostitution in Thailand, yet it's legal in America. The US are hypocrites.

I wasn't going to argue. But i did come away thinking that if the US continues it's bully boy tactics it's will only push some countries in South East Asia to have closer ties to China. The Thai's are becoming better educated these days.

Newton's third law of physics, "Every Action Has a Reaction".

As for aged prostitutes, i saw a few 40-50 year old go-go dancers in Angeles city. I guess they were young at heart.

I am an American. There is no question that the US government is two-faced and self-serving. Has been for a long long time. The founders of our country warned that getting involved in the affairs of other countries is a huge mistake. But politicians smell money and power and do it anyway.

Interestingly, South America (especially Mexico) has grown tired of our stupid drug policies destroying their countries, and are beginning to wake up and tell the US to F%^$ OFF. Several of those countries have legalized personal use of most drugs. They are starting to tell the US they will no longer try to enforce our stupid laws and pay the price in human lives and shattered society. I hope they continue down this road. We have screwed them long enough.

Personally, I would like to see more of the world, including SEA, tell the US to shove their policies and demands up their @$$. I would like to see the US government spend more of their time and resources fixing the problems we have at home, and letting the rest of the world live as they see fit. We should be happy to help when others ask, and stand aside the rest of the time.

That said, the simple truth is that the US is by default the policeman of the world. Due to our coming out of the cold war with the strongest military on the planet. There may be cases where this power is necessary, and I hope the US government is wise and moral enough to use this power wisely. Unfortunately, the recent past has indicated otherwise. I blame the US citizens for not being more diligent in demanding their government be more accountable and insisting that they adhere more closely to the constitution. As a free democracy, it is the responsibility of the citizens to hold their government accountable.

"I blame the US citizens for not being more diligent in demanding their government be more accountable and insisting that they adhere more closely to the constitution. As a free democracy, it is the responsibility of the citizens to hold their government accountable."

Nope, it's more important that the benefits & handouts & preferences keep flowing and everyone's little personal agendas are met. THAT'S what gets politicians elected, and that means ever bigger, more intrusive, more over reaching government. Sadly, limited government, either domestically or WRT foreign affairs, just isn't on anyone's agenda. Well, no one that counts - just those dopey old, hopelessly backwards & non-"progressive" neo-cons. Personal freedom? A quaint anachronism. People could care less until their own ox is gored, but of course at that point they're nothing but a tiresome & barely tolerated little army of one. Even more depressing, politicians in many other countries around the world have also discovered this "secret of political success"... You can expect more of it, not less...

[JulieM]

This article from 2009 is good for a laugh. Oklahoma woman frees sex slaves at Soi Cowboy : )

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-woman-works-to-free-slaves-in-bangkoks-sex-trade/article/3392827

Regarding the Las Vegas bar, I was last in there around 2002 and it was a dead dump then. Anyone remember that huge fish they had in the tiny aquarium? Apparently it has been there for years.

Edited February 5, 2015 by JulieM

[mango66]

My wife has a niece who is an absolute cutie, and when she puts on make up and sexy clothes, is an absolute knock out! She paid 1,000 baht for an ID that said she was 18, when she was really only 16, and went to work at a karaoke bar on Chang Klan Road. She made it clear that she did not want to have sex with the customers, and was only there to provide them with company while they were drinking, but after about 2 weeks the manager told her that she would have to start having sex, or find another job. She walked out an that was the end of that. About 2 weeks later the place was shut down. That was 4 months ago, and it's still closed. And she's now working in the market at night doing foot and leg massage with her Tomboy lover.

and why she doesn#t start a normal work like 99% of all thai does ?

[PJcm]

Is there still any reason to plan a holiday to Chiang Mai? I defenitely DON'T come for elephant rides.

Unless you're coming for trafficked women or underage girls, nothing will have changed.

You must be kidding. You`ll be lucky to find women of ill repute under the age of 40 in the Loi Kroh road and surrounding areas. In those areas women less than 35 years old are considered underage and females in their 20s as absolute cradle snatching. Most of it is crap, but now it seems they`re even taking the crap away. Heartless swines.

I have been warning for a long time that the clamp downs will progressively increase in Chiang Mai, having first hand word of all the rumours well in advance. In fact I was giving out tip offs as to what is to come. I estimate that within the next 5 years, perhaps less, that the adult entertainments scene of Chiang Mai will be totally eradicated. Replaced by more eating establishments, unneeded shopping malls and boring yuppie market walking streets.

Another tip off, for those considering opening beerbars in Chiang Mai, beware, you are investing in a loser, go south young man.

Don't go South young man that will end too, go East to Cambodia where life is cheaper, the girls were kinder, visa at the 7/11, food is cheaper and cheese and wine are cheap. Reminds me of Thailand from the 70's

[Mcffee]

It was until police raids in 1995 that hidden in the infamous earth wall -along Khampangdin road etc.- were various child brothels were kids as young as 7-15 were locked up working to pay off their parents debt. Upon arrival they received a stack of 1000 cards, with every customer the brothel owner removed 1 card. After the last card the debt was paid off, but most kids did not make it and died before...

[Ulysses G.]

I was here then and never heard of any such thing, but 15 and 16 year old girls were fairly common. Girls that age were not unknown on Patpong either, but seemed to be there voluntarily. The girls in the Thai brothels were often along the lines of indentured servants, back in those days. They had to pay off their parent's debts before they could leave.

[rabid old goat]

I've never been in Chiang Mai bars... Sorry, I didn't realize that it's the usual custom here to ask to see a Thai ID before one pays their bar fine.

you'd be smarter to ask for a meth test instead

[bangmai]

what the NGOs fail to differentiate is kidnapping versus consensual sex. They love to bash 60 yo man with 25 yo wife, but really they are consenting adults......the Catholic Church should get most of the blame......

[fey]

i'm surprised they found any streetwalkers in cm.

place was pretty dead in that regard when i lived there. maybe some by tae pae gate in the evening you could count on two hands.

[khwaibah]

i'm surprised they found any streetwalkers in cm.

place was pretty dead in that regard when i lived there. maybe some by tae pae gate in the evening you could count on two hands.

Kotey Central on on Kotchasarn Road from Loi Kroh to Si Donchai Road from about 1am to 6 am.

[amexpat]

what the NGOs fail to differentiate is kidnapping versus consensual sex. They love to bash 60 yo man with 25 yo wife, but really they are consenting adults......the Catholic Church should get most of the blame......

Chiang Mai Gate Theater did a fine fine show "Land of Smiles" some time ago.

"The musical written and composed by Erin Kamler, seeks to shed light on the “story” currently being told about human trafficking—a story used by advocates to reinforce ideas of Western superiority on the global stage and moralisms about sex work in the developing world.'

See more on their web site.

[true blue]

i'm surprised they found any streetwalkers in cm.

place was pretty dead in that regard when i lived there. maybe some by tae pae gate in the evening you could count on two hands.

10 years ago when I first arrived there wasn't even or very few cars, after 11oclock around tape gate.it was virtually a ghost town.very little adult entertainment,think there use to be a outdoor resturant at the back of were spicy is now,

[dru2]

It was until police raids in 1995 that hidden in the infamous earth wall -along Khampangdin road etc.- were various child brothels were kids as young as 7-15 were locked up working to pay off their parents debt. Upon arrival they received a stack of 1000 cards, with every customer the brothel owner removed 1 card. After the last card the debt was paid off, but most kids did not make it and died before...

Unless you can provide some substantive evidence in the form of sources, I regard this as an urban myth.

I first came here in 1978, and have lived in Chiang Mai full time since 1990. I did not frequent the establishments on Kamphaeng Din, but they were already few and far between by 1990 and I saw and heard no evidence to support your claim. And I am a journalist who has reported on paedophilia in Chiang Mai for the Melbourne Age... Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

Please feel free to prove me wrong with some solid evidence.

Edited February 6, 2015 by dru2

[orang37]

Do the trafficked women wear little signs identifying them?

Whilst we have never seen this ourselves, we have been told by the usual suspects that they, almost always, wear three types of signs which translate as, respectively: "Stop;" "School Crossing;" and, "Slippery When Wet."

~o:37;

[amexpat]

Orang, please take your meds as directed.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think it was a wordplay on traffic signs.

Orang is in a dimension that I'm only occasionally able to interact with, usually after lots of substances.

[Beetlejuice]

It was until police raids in 1995 that hidden in the infamous earth wall -along Khampangdin road etc.- were various child brothels were kids as young as 7-15 were locked up working to pay off their parents debt. Upon arrival they received a stack of 1000 cards, with every customer the brothel owner removed 1 card. After the last card the debt was paid off, but most kids did not make it and died before...

[Ulysses G.]

Orang is in a dimension that I'm only occasionally able to interact with, usually after lots of substances.

In person, he is pretty normal and very pleasant fellow. He only turns Orang on Thai Visa.

[true blue]

Orang is in a dimension that I'm only occasionally able to interact with, usually after lots of substances.

In person, he is pretty normal and very pleasant fellow. He only turns Orang on Thai Visa.

hes propaly not alone in that aspect.

[Rhys]

I sincerely hope so.

Some can be excellent ... they have a bandwidth of knowledge..55555

[JulieM]

Orang is in a dimension that I'm only occasionally able to interact with, usually after lots of substances.

In person, he is pretty normal and very pleasant fellow. He only turns Orang on Thai Visa.

hes propaly not alone in that aspect.

true blue, are you OK?

[orang37]

Of course the Police are cracking-down; would you have them go broke cracking-up and stop making victims ? Don't you know that victims are made, not born.

~o:37;

p.s. We 're all Placebo-addicts stumbling through the wilderness of Expatria following the psycho path, as if the frequent signs saying "Loser" are there by accident.

[Mickeem]

http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4806

Seems not only underage and trafficked..

I have known the Mamasan for the last 6 years she has ran the place

she has been made a srapegoat together with the 'girls' to appease the officials from Bangkok for their little crackdown jaunt..

the other 'establishments' across along the road are in full swing tonight..

As for the 'spy' being offered services starting at 1500B he must have been a foreigner because that was her 'falang price'

As if it was a revelation that the establishment was found to be offering the 'services; she has been arrested for.. for gowds sake she has paying off the BIB together with the rest of the other places for years.. the local cops know exactly whats going on in these places that why they turn up with their hands out every few days

[Tokay]

It was until police raids in 1995 that hidden in the infamous earth wall -along Khampangdin road etc.- were various child brothels were kids as young as 7-15 were locked up working to pay off their parents debt. Upon arrival they received a stack of 1000 cards, with every customer the brothel owner removed 1 card. After the last card the debt was paid off, but most kids did not make it and died before...

Unless you can provide some substantive evidence in the form of sources, I regard this as an urban myth.

I first came here in 1978, and have lived in Chiang Mai full time since 1990. I did not frequent the establishments on Kamphaeng Din, but they were already few and far between by 1990 and I saw and heard no evidence to support your claim. And I am a journalist who has reported on paedophilia in Chiang Mai for the Melbourne Age... Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

Please feel free to prove me wrong with some solid evidence.

You didn't know about it, therefor it did not exist.

There are all sorts of horrible things scattered about Thailand that you may or may not know about. Sometimes where you would least expect them. One thing is for sure, such places generally don't have a blinking light outside advertising to strangers.

I have no doubt you could find children around same age working today in Chiang Mai (or anywhere in Thailand) for Thai clients, and the whole ring is probably operated by someone in the police or military.

[Ulysses G.]

That is conspiracy theory stuff. There was tons of media reporting on girls in their late teens working as prostitutes inthese places and, if there were 7 year old children, they would have reported that too. Lots of Farangs went to that area back then and if that kind of stuff was going on, everyone in town would have known it.

[dru2]

Unless you can provide some substantive evidence in the form of sources, I regard this as an urban myth.

I first came here in 1978, and have lived in Chiang Mai full time since 1990. I did not frequent the establishments on Kamphaeng Din, but they were already few and far between by 1990 and I saw and heard no evidence to support your claim. And I am a journalist who has reported on paedophilia in Chiang Mai for the Melbourne Age... Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

Please feel free to prove me wrong with some solid evidence.

You didn't know about it, therefor it did not exist.

There are all sorts of horrible things scattered about Thailand that you may or may not know about. Sometimes where you would least expect them. One thing is for sure, such places generally don't have a blinking light outside advertising to strangers.

I have no doubt you could find children around same age working today in Chiang Mai (or anywhere in Thailand) for Thai clients, and the whole ring is probably operated by someone in the police or military.

You 'have no doubt', therefore it did / does exist? Get real.

I interviewed two genuine underage female sex workers in Pattaya 21 years ago. One was aged 9 and one aged 12. They were 'working' openly at a bar on the old pier. I asked them about lack of police concern, and the older one went over and tapped on the window of the nearby police booth before chatting with the 'officer' on duty. It was very clear that the police knew and did not care.

My report made two full pages in The Nation. The Post declined to publish it as 'everyone knew already'.

And you feel qualified to comment? Conspiracy theory nonsense indeed. Go out and collect some facts, or keep quiet.