Benelli TNT300s

[dave_boo]

All I asked for was information on where parts for a motorcycle are manufactured. Backed up. A reasonable assumption would be China, IMO.

If you do not know, then just say so, or maybe say nothing. Such as the exhaust thread where the company you paid money too gave you a non-road legal exhaust that went through no R+D and gave you no information of performance (but did sent it to you within 24hrs, for the same price a UK manufactured blah blah blah).

But anyway, if you or anybody can knowledgeably educate us with backed-up sources of where different parts of the CB300 are manufactured then please do. It is the main competition to the bike that this thread is about and is on topic.

No, YOU made a claim, based on ulterior motives, that the bike consists of parts manufactured in China. You made this assumption based on NO facts but rather wishful thinking.

All non-aftermarket exhausts are illegal in Thailand unless they are approved by TIS. So what's your point? And as far as your assumption that there was no R&D...again an assumption pulled from your arse. Grim DBS was the OEM for the Tyga exhaust. They were sold around the world and had a minimal increase in HP. However they lost no power and did lose weight while providing a better sound.

Basically I keep going back to that youtube clip and how well it describes your posts. If you want to start crying that the 'old guard' is ganging up on you...go ahead. Your posting history is enough to disprove that fallacy.

**edit**

And you still have not shown with backed-up sources you don't make money nefariously. And that you don't kick dogs. Because that is important to this thread as it would imply that only cheap Chinese bikes are all you can afford new.

[Andrew Hastings]

dave_boo, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:32, said:

Andrew Hastings, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:04, said:

All I asked for was information on where parts for a motorcycle are manufactured. Backed up. A reasonable assumption would be China, IMO.

If you do not know, then just say so, or maybe say nothing. Such as the exhaust thread where the company you paid money too gave you a non-road legal exhaust that went through no R+D and gave you no information of performance (but did sent it to you within 24hrs, for the same price a UK manufactured blah blah blah).

But anyway, if you or anybody can knowledgeably educate us with backed-up sources of where different parts of the CB300 are manufactured then please do. It is the main competition to the bike that this thread is about and is on topic.

No, YOU made a claim, based on ulterior motives, that the bike consists of parts manufactured in China. You made this assumption based on NO facts but rather wishful thinking.

All non-aftermarket exhausts are illegal in Thailand unless they are approved by TIS. So what's your point? And as far as your assumption that there was no R&D...again an assumption pulled from your arse. Grim DBS was the OEM for the Tyga exhaust. They were sold around the world and had a minimal increase in HP. However they lost no power and did lose weight while providing a better sound.

Basically I keep going back to that youtube clip and how well it describes your posts. If you want to start crying that the 'old guard' is ganging up on you...go ahead. Your posting history is enough to disprove that fallacy.

Calm down calm down.

I readily admit that I am making reasonable assumptions while asking for facts. I say that in my posts on here.

If people cannot provide the facts, then they really have no say (unless they can otherwise provide a reasonable counter to my stated reasonable assumptions)

We take it that you and others cannot show that the parts for the CB300 aren't manufactured in China. Can you put together why it would a reaonable assumption to assume that they are not, at least?

[Andrew Hastings]

Quote

based on ulterior motives

I have absolutely no ulterior motives.

I own both a Thai made Honda and a Thai made Kawasaki. I assume that most of the parts on them were manufactured in China and assembled by Thais. It really means nothing to me. That the Benelli (should I ever own one) be both manufactured and assembled in China would mean nothing to me. I would still not trust the dealerships here to put the air in the tires correctly.

[dave_boo]

Calm down calm down.

I readily admit that I am making reasonable assumptions while asking for facts. I say that in my posts on here.

If people cannot provide the facts, then they really have no say (unless they can otherwise provide a reasonable counter to my stated reasonable assumptions)

We take it that you and others cannot show that the parts for the CB300 aren't manufactured in China. Can you put together why it would a reaonable assumption to assume that they are not, at least?

I am calm son.

I am giving back to you exactly what you are giving to the forum. You are making an assumption (as I am concerning your finances) based on NO EVIDENCE, and then demanding that information contrary to your flight of fantasy is out there.

You have yet to provide a rational reason that parts (which in sufficient quantity would change the CB to a CKD with high taxes) are manufactured in China, much less ANY PROOF of it.

Basically you're taking out of your ass.

[dave_boo]

Quote

based on ulterior motives

I have absolutely no ulterior motives.

I own both a Thai made Honda and a Thai made Kawasaki. I assume that most of the parts on them were manufactured in China and assembled by Thais. It really means nothing to me. That the Benelli (should I ever own one) be both manufactured and assembled in China would mean nothing to me. I would still not trust the dealerships here to put the air in the tires correctly.

Your assumptions mean nothing.

Some people assume that drinking camel piss cures ailments...are you going to do that because nobody has proven it wrong?

What a twit.

[Nickymaster]

Nickymaster, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:19, said:

jchfriis, on 06 Feb 2015 - 15:22, said:

Thanks for all the replies. Unfortunately it seems like no-one on the forum actually owns a Benelli, so that means we all can only know what we read about it and visit a dealer, look at it and take it for a ride. I did and really like what I saw. The fact that Benelli is owned by a huge Chinese corporation and that this model is built in China doesn't bother me so much. (As far as I've been able to ascertain, the other Benellis are made in Italy. Now is that a guarantee for better quality?) We live in a global world and so much of what we use is made around these parts of the world, phones, appliances etc. What I'm worried about is the after sale service, availability of spare parts etc.

I've looked at all the alternatives suggested here, but none of them sing to me as much as this one. As to secondhand value, I don't care that much, it will probably be the last bike of my life.

Have not made up my mind, maybe I don't want to be the front runner on this one.

Thank you all.

Yes it seems nobody wants to be the frontrunner. Some REALLY like it but that's where it stops..,

It was a no brainer for me. As I buy in cash it was both a CBR250 and Ninja650 for 195k rather than just one 300cc bike for 130k or whatever. If I had come across one for the same price as the used CBR250 I would have bought it, but my purchases were done quickly without much searching. Did they copy the latest Er6n or did the latest Er6n (2013?) copy it?

What year and mileage for the CBR?

[Andrew Hastings]

You (We) could go on like that - your assumptions mean nothing etc etc. That's the thing with throwing down a gauntlet. People can get upset when they can't give facts to counter it.

Of course assumptions made on here mean nothing. This is a chat board for motorcycles, right? The assumpions that people are making about CB300 components not being made in China mean just about the same.

[Nebula]

Which parts are u talking about? Have Anybody who has been at a honda dealer and ordered a part and glanced at the plastic bag with the label in white and red? For most small parts i ve seen it says made in China. A google search showed some filters in the same plastic bag with the honda label and it said Made in Thailand.

[Andrew Hastings]

Nickymaster, on 07 Feb 2015 - 23:00, said:Nickymaster, on 07 Feb 2015 - 23:00, said:

Andrew Hastings, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:32, said:Andrew Hastings, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:32, said:

Nickymaster, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:19, said:Nickymaster, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:19, said:

Nickymaster, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:19, said:

jchfriis, on 06 Feb 2015 - 15:22, said:jchfriis, on 06 Feb 2015 - 15:22, said:

jchfriis, on 06 Feb 2015 - 15:22, said:

Thanks for all the replies. Unfortunately it seems like no-one on the forum actually owns a Benelli, so that means we all can only know what we read about it and visit a dealer, look at it and take it for a ride. I did and really like what I saw. The fact that Benelli is owned by a huge Chinese corporation and that this model is built in China doesn't bother me so much. (As far as I've been able to ascertain, the other Benellis are made in Italy. Now is that a guarantee for better quality?) We live in a global world and so much of what we use is made around these parts of the world, phones, appliances etc. What I'm worried about is the after sale service, availability of spare parts etc.

I've looked at all the alternatives suggested here, but none of them sing to me as much as this one. As to secondhand value, I don't care that much, it will probably be the last bike of my life.

Have not made up my mind, maybe I don't want to be the front runner on this one.

Thank you all.

Yes it seems nobody wants to be the frontrunner. Some REALLY like it but that's where it stops..,

It was a no brainer for me. As I buy in cash it was both a CBR250 and Ninja650 for 195k rather than just one 300cc bike for 130k or whatever. If I had come across one for the same price as the used CBR250 I would have bought it, but my purchases were done quickly without much searching. Did they copy the latest Er6n or did the latest Er6n (2013?) copy it?

What year and mileage for the CBR?

2011, 23k km. I already put a K&N filter into it, have a pipe coming over from the UK, will add an EJK fuel controller (7.5k baht from the Thai distributer) after it arrives, and finally a 13T front sprocket. For a total of 75-80k baht. I think it will be a good city commuter bike like that.

[ktm jeff]

I dont think ANYONE , even RichardBKK , could get Honda , or anyone , to tell them where , and at what price , their parts come from. Not going to happen. Ever . However i consider it REASONABLE to assume that on many cars / bikes , there are Chinese parts. I dont personally see this as a negative point . Dealerships - different story however .Dave - camel piss ? <deleted> , Im never going on the "piss" with you . .

[dave_boo]

Which parts are u talking about? Have Anybody who has been at a honda dealer and ordered a part and glanced at the plastic bag with the label in white and red? For most small parts i ve seen it says made in China. A google search showed some filters in the same plastic bag with the honda label and it said Made in Thailand.

Good point. First I found a repair bill for a CBR250R. Then I ran some google image searches.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1654&bih=854&q=64370-kyj-900zd&oq=64370-kyj-900zd&gs_l=img.3...1288.1288.0.1587.1.1.0.0.0.0.113.113.0j1.1.0.msedr...0...1ac.2.61.img..1.0.0.L1YfrFugQ3c#imgdii=_&imgrc=Q7du_xdutm-NSM%253A%3BkvdXWVMG9IhjIM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftyga-performance.com%252Fsite%252Fproduct_thumb.php%253Fimg%253Dimages%252Fleftgrabrail-7949da6b.jpg%2526w%253D164%2526h%253D120%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftyga-performance.com%252Fsite%252Fadvanced_search_result.php%253Fkeywords%253Dcbr250r%2526sort%253D4a%2526page%253D2%3B164%3B120

Didn't see any made in china. But I did look on Tyga's website, and what you know...every picture that had a label available had made in Thailand on it.

We can safely assume that the parts that Honda is using for the bikes built in Thailand are manufactured almost exclusively in Thailand. Not China.

And I don't believe in camel piss....

[Andrew Hastings]

dave_boo, on 07 Feb 2015 - 23:41, said:dave_boo, on 07 Feb 2015 - 23:41, said:

Andrew Hastings, on 07 Feb 2015 - 23:37, said:Andrew Hastings, on 07 Feb 2015 - 23:37, said:

Finally, we're getting places. Throwing down the guantlet is getting results. The faring, stickers, sprockets etc. come stickered as 'Made in Thailand'. I thought that we were on about engine internals, not stickers and headlights, but there ya go.

Dave, I'll pretend that I actually read something that you said about my income streams and admit fully and wholly that you are completely correct.

You may be confusing me with someone that has ego issues to contend with.

No confusion.

You have the classic narcissistic complex. You are infallible and omniscient. Thus your postings where we should take your assumptions and not question them...or if we question them attempt to prove a negative (a logical fallacy).

Your moving of the goal posts is a prime example of this, as well as your wilful disregard of YOUR arguments being used against you....but whatever man...it's your sad life.

It seems that you are either confusing me with another poster, or really took the Thai vrs Western exhaust thread to heart.

Anyway, I'm all for education about motorcycles.

When it comes down to motorcycle 'reliability' people aren't really talking about the stickers, handlebars, headlights, sprockets, are they?

No moving the goal posts on that. I'd be (and others would be) delighted to see where the engine parts for the CB300 (or other bikes) are manufactured. Be it Thailand, China, Stoke-upon-Trent, Madagasgar. If you do not know, there is no shame in it.

PS, it's sad to see you be reduced to insulting other poster's lives (as you imagine them to be), you're better than that. All you have to do is say, I don't know, but it is reasonable to assume that parts for the CB300 are Chinese manufactured.

[dave_boo]

It seems that you are either confusing me with another poster, or really took the Thai vrs Western exhaust thread to heart.

Anyway, I'm all for education about motorcycles.

When it comes down to motorcycle 'reliability' people aren't really talking about the stickers, handlebars, headlights, sprockets, are they?

No moving the goal posts on that. I'd be (and others would be) delighted to see where the engine parts for the CB300 (or other bikes) are manufactured. Be it Thailand, China, Stoke-upon-Trent, Madagasgar. If you do not know, there is no shame in it.

PS, it's sad to see you be reduced to insulting other poster's lives (as you imagine them to be), you're better than that. All you have to do is say, I don't know, but it is reasonable to assume that parts for the CB300 are Chinese manufactured.

Your hubris is astounding. Not to mention your projection. I don't care either way if you think I got the wrong end of a deal on a locally made exhaust. My life DOES NOT revolve around you nor your opinion. So what you think means sweet F-A to me.

You are not for education about motorcycles. You make unfounded claims, with no proof, and then 'throw down the gauntlet' in an attempt to garner attention. And much as humans are attracted to car wrecks or feeble minded people...you have unfortunately succeeded.

I would dare say that, based on threads on this forum alone in regards to those parts assembled on Chinese bikes, the answer to your question is a resounding 'yes', having those parts rattle or break off is a sign of reliability. But once again I assumed a modicum of intelligence on your part as well as due diligence in researching this which is quite obviously a mistake.

If you are so interested, and wish to prove your assumptions correct regarding origin of parts, why don't you simply go and look? Or do what I did and find out on the internet? Is that too hard for your abilities?

Please remember also that in any conversation a flood gate is often opened. You opened up these floodgates when you flat out stated people were talking out of their asses. If you can't stand the criticism or unfounded speculation, don't partake in it and it will not be revisited upon you.

Fair enough?

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts have been removed.

[ll2]

dave_boo, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:32, said:

Andrew Hastings, on 07 Feb 2015 - 22:04, said:

All I asked for was information on where parts for a motorcycle are manufactured. Backed up. A reasonable assumption would be China, IMO.

If you do not know, then just say so, or maybe say nothing. Such as the exhaust thread where the company you paid money too gave you a non-road legal exhaust that went through no R+D and gave you no information of performance (but did sent it to you within 24hrs, for the same price a UK manufactured blah blah blah).

But anyway, if you or anybody can knowledgeably educate us with backed-up sources of where different parts of the CB300 are manufactured then please do. It is the main competition to the bike that this thread is about and is on topic.

No, YOU made a claim, based on ulterior motives, that the bike consists of parts manufactured in China. You made this assumption based on NO facts but rather wishful thinking.

All non-aftermarket exhausts are illegal in Thailand unless they are approved by TIS. So what's your point? And as far as your assumption that there was no R&D...again an assumption pulled from your arse. Grim DBS was the OEM for the Tyga exhaust. They were sold around the world and had a minimal increase in HP. However they lost no power and did lose weight while providing a better sound.

Basically I keep going back to that youtube clip and how well it describes your posts. If you want to start crying that the 'old guard' is ganging up on you...go ahead. Your posting history is enough to disprove that fallacy.

Calm down calm down.

I readily admit that I am making reasonable assumptions while asking for facts. I say that in my posts on here.

If people cannot provide the facts, then they really have no say (unless they can otherwise provide a reasonable counter to my stated reasonable assumptions)

We take it that you and others cannot show that the parts for the CB300 aren't manufactured in China. Can you put together why it would a reaonable assumption to assume that they are not, at least?

That is funny. You are the one making assumptions like Honda parts are coming China so it has to be you to prove it with facts not us!

If you can't than you are speaking nonsense!

But one proof for you; in order to qualify as a made in thailand bike to get lower tax and investment incentives, parts of Thai made bikes has to be sourced inside thailand around 70 percent something if I don't remember wrong and I assume some of the rest comes from Japan or it does not matter as wherever parts are coming from, they hold Honda standards not like generic standards of benelli/keyway!

[seedy]

Sure are a lot of assumptions being made in this thread.

Most posters likely have not even seen one in the flesh, and if seen, never rode one.

Any no one posting here has owned one.

[Nickymaster]

Just road one for a few hundred meters when buying a VanVan and I can tell you that the bike is crappy. Brakes, levers, suspension etc might look fancy but it is all very low spec stuff. Trust me. This is a bike for people who love bling without quality. If these bikes would be any good you would see them all over the place. Imagine you bought one and wanted to change the exhaust. I don't think you have many options. If you want to be different, buy one. If you want a headache free reliable bike that you can fix on any corner of the street and for which aftermarket parts are available in abundance, buy a Japanese bike. Especially Honda if you are in LOS.

[seedy]

Just road one for a few hundred meters when buying a VanVan and I can tell you that the bike is crappy.

In your opinion. The OP had another.

And a few hundred meters is hardly time enuf to form a reasoned opinion. A first impression - yes.

Also says nothing to the brands reliability. Chinese, Japanese, Swahili ... any

[Nickymaster]

Just road one for a few hundred meters when buying a VanVan and I can tell you that the bike is crappy.

In your opinion. The OP had another.

And a few hundred meters is hardly time enuf to form a reasoned opinion. A first impression - yes.

Also says nothing to the brands reliability. Chinese, Japanese, Swahili ... any

Like I said, if people would have a different opinion from mine you would see a few more Benellis on the street. I just love quality products and high spec components.

[casualbiker]

For a product to be classified as made in Thailand 60% of parts have to be manufactured in Thailand. I'm sure some smaller parts that are used across the motorcycle range (brake levers, nuts bolts etc) are from China.

[English_M_in_Bkk]

I test rode the 600 Binelli last year, wasn't impressed - the handling was really poor, especially the front end which felt vague and didn't want to turn. Brakes were spongy and then grabbed suddenly, making the front end shudder. The gear box wasn't smooth and couldn't find neutral most of the time. Switch gear and components didn't have a quality feel to them. The only good thing was the engine, sounded nice and was smooth with OK power, but the bike was heavy. It looked good, but was a pig to ride.

I want to test ride the 300 just to see if they have improved at all.

[AllanB]

All this argument about Chinese, versus Thai, or Japanese, is all a bit misleading, so what are we looking at here when it comes to manufacturing?

Design specification, tooling, materials and quality control, these are important factors that determine whether the product is good or not. The man or woman pressing the button, or operating a preset pneumatic screwdriver, is trained and where he, or she comes from, or where the factory is built becomes an irrelevance and this applies to the parts too. CAD/CAM or whatever it is called nowadays breaks down national borders, allowing manufacturers to build where they wish, taking advantage of cheap labour and tax breaks to maximise profits.

So the only question left is what the end product TNT300 is like?

[ll2]

All this argument about Chinese, versus Thai, or Japanese, is all a bit misleading, so what are we looking at here when it comes to manufacturing?

Design specification, tooling, materials and quality control, these are important factors that determine whether the product is good or not. The man or woman pressing the button, or operating a preset pneumatic screwdriver, is trained and where he, or she comes from, or where the factory is built becomes an irrelevance and this applies to the parts too. CAD/CAM or whatever it is called nowadays breaks down national borders, allowing manufacturers to build where they wish, taking advantage of cheap labour and tax breaks to maximise profits.

So the only question left is what the end product TNT300 is like?

and that, we are looking for an answer.

there are many people here saying Benelli is a good bike but they never put their money where their mouths are and they play safe and go buy a honda or kawa!

i did my part and post a review of benelli bn600 and hope someone buys a benelli 300 a write a review here! but years passed an no one bought it here!

[DILLIGAD]

I saw one on the road just outside Ubon (which has a dealer) and it looked & sounded quite good.

A welcome change from the norm.

[AllanB]

I think you are expecting a bit much 112, hoping that someone will go out and buy a particular motorbike to provide this forum with a review.

But if you guys all want to club together, I will be happy to ride one around for a while and provide an honest appraisal.

[BSJ]

I think we need to look back in time to see what Benelli have produced when it was 100% Italian. Not a big seller in the market place, bad reliability issues with some models.

Can the Chinese do worse? Sure they can....but they can do a he11 of a lot better too!

As long as the Chinese don't cheapout on components and product testing we should see some reasonable quality bikes

[casualbiker]

I think we need to look back in time to see what Benelli have produced when it was 100% Italian. Not a big seller in the market place, bad reliability issues with some models.

Can the Chinese do worse? Sure they can....but they can do a he11 of a lot better too!

As long as the Chinese don't cheapout on components and product testing we should see some reasonable quality bikes

Hopefully

. But from what I saw last year at the motor show, they need to have done some hefty improvements before I would buy one.. saying that I think I heard a benelli 600 this week .. sounded good!

[Nickymaster]

Come on somebody should give this bike a try.

There are a bunch of videos on Youtube from Thai guys who have done some modifications to it.

[hansgruber]

Keeway dealer in Phuket hasn't got one and only will get one if you buy it but then they said they won't service it and the nearest benelli dealer with service is Surat Thani.

Just another reason why you won't see one in Phuket.

[Richard-BKK]

I think we need to look back in time to see what Benelli have produced when it was 100% Italian. Not a big seller in the market place, bad reliability issues with some models.

Can the Chinese do worse? Sure they can....but they can do a he11 of a lot better too!

As long as the Chinese don't cheapout on components and product testing we should see some reasonable quality bikes

I know that none of you probably will take my post seriouly, so I invite you to use Google, you can find anything I say online.....

Dear BSJ,

Where do you get your information from that the Chinese owners of Benelli are skipping out on quality?

The Chinese owners of Benelli did not moved any of the classic international models out of Italy, they actually hire in Italy more workers at all levels of the company, if you search a bit on Internet you can find that the Italian based staff of Benelli has grown by almost 43%.... That is at all levels of the company, with most new employers at production…

.

This is not a Chinese take over like Saches bikes, where I buy the name and loose everybody in the first year, Benelli has in Europe proven sceptics wrong, and I personally spoke on my last trip to China with a QJ Group executive and he promised that we not seen the full force yet, Benelli will challenge Ducati in 2 or 3 years…

Yes, I even laugh, but not forget how much money the QJ Group has, they can even challenge VW on cash they have to spend… Most of the investor behind Ducati has all its money up in investment and needs more bank credit to make any serious investment possible. QJ Group has compared to VW zero money in investment and most things they do is cash purchase or low credit purchase.

The executive of QJ Group was willing to say that they would invest in the end of 2015, more money than Ducati, made provide over 4 years….

For the last few year Ducacti was able to make a profit of about 6 percent, which is more to 5% percent to be honest. No reason they were bought by VW, they were not able to develop any new engines…

Back to Benelli, QJ Group already guaranteed for 7 years of no profit years for Benelli, while the company did make in the second halve of 2014 some profit…. QJ also confirmed with all banks involved that they will do a cash injections of 3 times the bank involvement…. Making Benelli the most healthy financial motorcycle company in the world…

So who is QJ Group, and why they can do stuff like this… If you live in any developed country, you probably have a product of QJ group in your hand right now is it because you read this on your iPhone or on your computer. In your car.

You could compare QJ Group to Kawasaki, but they have less heavy an more consumer, they produce your well know mobile electric generators for 7 brands, electric powered water pump for 9 companies including themselves, they produce engine, ATV’s for a well known Canadian company and electric powered gardening equipment for the 2 most prominent brands. This are one products they public enough, QJ Groups is also a major investor in microelectronics and owns the only private facilities to be able to make 0,018 micron, while the latest Intel microprocessor is only 0.022 micron…