UK General Visit visa - staying longer than planned?

[fbf]

I've seen it mentioned here before that it's acceptable to enter the UK multiple times on a General Visit visa (where multiple entries are permitted). I would like to know if anyone has any evidence or experience to indicate that staying substantially longer than planned, or even multiple entries, could have a negative effect on future visa applications.

A bit more background:

I live in the UK. My Thai fiancée got her second visa to enter the UK in January (took only a week to go through). It's the general visitor type, showing type: "C-VISIT", entries "MULT". It's valid for 6 months, until mid July.

The original plan, stated in the application, was a 3 week visit over Easter (April). In the application we also mentioned that we had just got engaged, the purpose was for a visit and that we understand the need to apply for a further settlement visa following marriage in future. Following marriage in June, the intention is for her to apply for the settlement visa, wait it out in Thailand and then join me in the UK if and when granted (currently waiting times are around 60 working days, but who knows).

Since then she has learned that she will be made redundant from her job by the end of March. As we are getting married in late June, it's possible that finding and settling into a new job might be tricky, especially if she then needs to ask for 2 weeks off around the time of the wedding and honeymoon (already booked elsewhere in Asia). She works in a semi-managerial job, not casual work that might have shorter notice periods.

Given this change of circumstances, I'm tempted to suggest that she stays with me for a couple of months - i.e. extending a 3 week stay to around 8 or 9. Then she can travel back to Thailand for a short time before the wedding. After the wedding, plans are the same - she'll need to wait for the settlement visa to go through.

The multi-entry on the visa might not be so useful; with the honeymoon already booked, she could only join me in the UK for a week before needing to go back to Thailand. Although in theory she could visit in early April and again in late May or June if that's somehow thought to be better than one long stay.

My concerns are:

1. Could she have trouble entering the UK, if her return ticket is a couple of months further out than planned? I guess she won't normally be questioned, but could she be unlucky, get pulled aside, and then refused entry because of this?

2. Would an application for settlement with her spouse, following marriage, be adversely affected by the longer stay?

3. If the settlement visa is refused, could it affect further visit visas?

4. If she doesn't find a job, will this impact the future settlement visa application? Because while finding a job could bring in some useful cash, it's not strictly essential. In fact, she could spend more time improving her English and therefore future job prospects if she doesn't work. Sorry, this last one is a bit off-topic!

Thanks for reading such a long post!

[theoldgit]

1 - Certainly as risk, you're right a return ticket isn't always asked for, if she did have a return ticket a couple of months hence, it might ring alarm bells and warrant further checks but probably not, plans do change. If she had originally said she was staying for a couple of weeks and then said a couple of months it could be an issue, but probably not. She isn't breaking any immigration rules.

2 - No, two totally different beasts.

3 - Yes it could do, if an applicant was refused a Settlement Visa and subsequently applied for a visit visa the Entry Clearance Officer would need consider if the applicant was using the visit visa route to circumnavigate the settlement route.

4 - No, a visit visa is all about ties to her own country, if she is settled in employment that might be considered as a tie and thus a reason to return. Having no job in her home country wouldn't affect her plans for moving, it's all about affordability.

[fbf]

Thanks for such a helpful reply, and while your answers aren't surprising to me, it's still valuable to get some clarity and reassurance. Just regarding a couple of the points:

1. If I'm only concerned about entry then I don't think it's too difficult to get the return portion of the flight changed after she arrives here.

3. She will submit the settlement visa application in July, so if refused we will probably know somewhere around September to November unless the processing times change between now and then. So any further visit visa application would be made quite late in the year. If, at that time she's spent a total of 3 months in the UK - one in August 2014 and two in April/May 2015, I'm hoping that it wouldn't look too much like she's trying to circumnavigate the settlement route. I admit that it's a grey area, so need to try and gauge the risk.

It sounds like the worst case is the settlement visa getting refused for some other reason (none that I'm aware of, except for the obvious need to not take it for granted). In that case, subsequent visit visas could start to look tricky, and I think she'd need to find another job and we go back to short visits until we can try again.

[theoldgit]

1 - Buying a flexible ticket and then changing the return date wouldn't be an issue for the current visit, as I said plans can change, but it could affect any future application by bringing her credibility into question. Likewise if her plans had changed and she decided to change her return flight plans before travel she may not have an issue if questioned, but she would need to be prepared for further questions. Chances are that if she produced return tickets when asked, it wouldn't be an issue.

2 - Settlement Visa applications are more of a tick box exercise than visit visas, if she meets the criteria it will be approved, if she doesn't it wont, the ECO's have no discretion. With settlement visa applications costing in the region of £1,000 its really worth getting it right. Have you read the pinned topic? UK Settlement Visa-basics

[fbf]

About staying longer, I'm not planning to make any quick decisions here.

Flight was already booked for 3 weeks anyway with BA, and their fares seems surprisingly flexible - no charges for changes, just pay the difference. I'm sure changing one or both flight legs will push it into a less favourable fare class so they'll do ok out of it, but for me it's more palatable than having to bin the ticket.

More to the point; when applying for a future visit visa, is it necessary to state how long she stayed last time? And if not, how would they know, because there's no outbound stamp in her passport from the August visit. If in doubt I'll take the 101% honesty route (telling them more than is strictly needed) so probably won't go down that road, but I can't help wondering!

About the settlement visa topic, yes I've read that a few times, and also the gov.uk site which seems very good at breaking things down into easy to read sections. Her English should be good enough, I'm looking into the test this weekend so hopefully we'll know for sure this month. Hopefully she doesn't have TB! My income is more than double the minimum requirement and easy to prove (steady salaried job). I own a three bedroom house and live alone there.

Probably the most subjective thing will be proving that we're in a genuine and subsisting relationship. We will have only known each other 15 months at the time of the wedding, but that's the only drawback I can think of. We have daily Skype records, loads of photos together, emails etc. I don't know if me sending her a little cash each month is good, bad or neutral (in the eyes of an ECO), but it's been fairly consistent each month (although the sin sod will make a big spike in her bank balance unless there's a better way to send it). We will get married in Thailand with a mostly traditional if not extravagant wedding ceremony (50-70 guests), in addition to the legal marriage. The guest list includes around 15 of my family and (mostly) friends, travelling to the wedding from the UK and three other countries in Europe, Africa and Asia. I don't know if this is at all relevant, but it would be a lot of trouble to go to for a marriage/relationship that isn't genuine...

I feel like we're in with a good chance first time, but I guess there are always hidden things that could trip us up.

Edited February 7, 2015 by fbf

[7by7]

They will have a good idea of when she left the UK from the Thai entry stamp, and lack of any others, in her passport.

There is also a question about previous visits and length of stay for each on the visit visa application form.

As said, there is nothing illegal in staying in the UK as a visitor for longer than originally planned.

However, it can damage her credibility in future visit applications if not explained in that application; especially if she said she had to return by a fixed date, e.g for work, and didn't.

However, I can't see that it would effect a settlement visa application.

You seem to be fully aware of the settlement requirements; but if you want advice on that may I suggest you start a new topic closer to the time.

[fbf]

Ah, very good points, especially about the Thailand stamp - I looked again at her scanned passport. Didn't realise they even stamp their own citizens in and out! Also I just noticed the other topic on this subject.

So, opting for the longer stay is clearly not without risk.

If we do this, and then the settlement visa fails for other reasons, then a subsequent visit visa application will need a good explanation. The honest reason is that we'd be making the best of a bad situation but also taking advantage of the visa already granted, to some extent. The story would be along these lines: She was made redundant (I'll try to get this well documented), but with a wedding already booked for late June there wasn't time to find a job owing to employers not being willing to arrange holiday time so early in an employment. Instead, she took the opportunity to spend longer staying with me in order to become more familiar with being in the UK and to get to know my friends and family better. I think changing the return flight before she arrives in the UK might look more credible (less sneaky) in this case.

It doesn't seem very strong reading it back, because there's no specific and objective event that we can point our finger at and say "this is why she needed to stay longer". Also, maybe she should try to find a job anyway (although starting a new job and arranging a wedding isn't ideal - I'd rather take a hit on the bank balance). How much difference this makes I'm not sure, but if the settlement visa is rejected for any reason then the bigger issue will be finding employment. I wouldn't fancy my chances on a future visit visa if she has no job.

Ah well, I probably don't need to decide for another month. Despite all the above, if she happens to find a good job quickly, I might just cancel the April visit and spent Songkran in Thailand with her instead. Good to know the options though.

Your help is very much appreciated, and I might post a topic about English tests, after a little more searching first of course.