Thai alliance hinges on return to democracy: US diplomat

[spidermike007]

MCD Obama Golf Goof.jpgSuspect the US needs Thailand more than Thailand needs the weak and leaderless US.

The "Goofy Golfer" in the Whitehouse can't even run his own country and has managed to let the Middle East slip into chaos, now the Bumbling Obama wants to stick his nose into Thailand's affairs. Very Uppity!

Given Thailand's strategic location in this region, Obama would be a fool to turn his back on this country but then again, given his track record elsewhere, he is capable of some very foolish moves.

Bring on 2016 when the US will have the opportunity to return to sane Leadership and regain its place as the Leader of the Free World.

I agree blundering Barry is a fool. But who is out there that is capable of good leadership? Ryan. Another Bush. Huckabee. Who? Any with vision and real leadership ability, something Barry sorely lacks? Who? There is very, very little talent at the National level in the US, and no nobility and integrity whatsoever.

[rametindallas]

Typical US foreign policy. Schizophrenic. They've no problem with Egypt's Junta (who hates the US) or many others but love to drive their friends into their enemy's arms. Thailand does more trade with China and this short-sighted policy will cause Thailand to bond more closely with China to the detriment of both Thailand and the US. If the US State Dept. knew the first thing about Thais, they would know you don't get anywhere with ultimatums. Very disappointing.

Scholars rank US Secretary of State John Kerry dead last in terms of effectiveness.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/05/scholars-rank-kerry-dead-last-in-terms-of-effectiveness/

And this is from a newspaper sympathetic to the Obama administration.

I thought Kerry was going to be a decent SOS. But, I am shocked at how ineffective he is. He is shrill, arrogant, and really wooden. I liked Hillary. She commanded respect.

As far as the recent spat, who cares? What the US says at this point is something very few of us take seriously. The whole concept of building democracy is a fairly discredited notion, based on the recent past, and the nations the US has picked as being ripe for it. Forcing democracy down ones throat does not work. Thailand will make an effort to return to democracy. They had a modest form of it, and look at what a mess they made of it. The last ten years were an abomination, and I do not know of anyone who can call what they had in the last ten years true democracy. It was more like a bunch of children misbehaving.

And does the US have true democracy? Feels a bit more like a fascist republic, at the moment. And I say all this as an American. One who is witnessing a decline of the empire, and an erosion of its influence, at a distance.

You seem to be struggling with understanding 3 of your premises - democracy, Thailand and fascism.

According to my UDD dictionary:

democracy = any government controlled by Thaksin

facism = any government controlled by some body that is against Thaisin

Thailand = A Constitutional Monarchy situated in SE Asia that has very little experience with Western style democracy and has yet learn how not to abuse it.

[spidermike007]

Without US and Japanese investments Thailand will move back to the stone age.

Without Japanese companies here it is estimated the economy would be about 40% of its current size. The Thais had better treat them well.

[pedro01]

The US isn't really a democracy.

You just have 2 almost identical parties passing the baton every 8 years.

Where there are perceived policy differences (climate change, abortion, taxes) - the people following their party do so like drones sticking to the party line on those issues and thinking the followers of the other party idiots for choosing the wrong side out of a sum total of 2.

Lobbyists and cash donations set policy because getting elected is basically a money game and the chance of any other parties participating is basically zero.

And then - every now & again, the guy with the least votes becomes President.

A fine system indeed.

In the USA we get 50 choices for Miss America...but only 2 for president.

And just like Thailand, the 'best' candidates often come from the same family.

Amazing coincidence considering the population...

[rametindallas]

Typical US foreign policy. Schizophrenic. They've no problem with Egypt's Junta (who hates the US) or many others but love to drive their friends into their enemy's arms. Thailand does more trade with China and this short-sighted policy will cause Thailand to bond more closely with China to the detriment of both Thailand and the US. If the US State Dept. knew the first thing about Thais, they would know you don't get anywhere with ultimatums. Very disappointing.

Scholars rank US Secretary of State John Kerry dead last in terms of effectiveness.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/05/scholars-rank-kerry-dead-last-in-terms-of-effectiveness/

And this is from a newspaper sympathetic to the Obama administration.

I thought Kerry was going to be a decent SOS. But, I am shocked at how ineffective he is. He is shrill, arrogant, and really wooden. I liked Hillary. She commanded respect.

As far as the recent spat, who cares? What the US says at this point is something very few of us take seriously. The whole concept of building democracy is a fairly discredited notion, based on the recent past, and the nations the US has picked as being ripe for it. Forcing democracy down ones throat does not work. Thailand will make an effort to return to democracy. They had a modest form of it, and look at what a mess they made of it. The last ten years were an abomination, and I do not know of anyone who can call what they had in the last ten years true democracy. It was more like a bunch of children misbehaving.

And does the US have true democracy? Feels a bit more like a fascist republic, at the moment. And I say all this as an American. One who is witnessing a decline of the empire, and an erosion of its influence, at a distance.

If you are an American, time for you to return your passport to the US embassy in BKK. We dont need people like you living in another country, spreading BS and not contributing to anything American.

If you are an American, you should not scold someone for expressing their opinion. Are you one of those 'Holier than thou' Americans who sees other Americans falling short of your standards?

We dont need people like you living in another country...

Who is this 'we' you claim to represent? Speak for yourself. The very First Amendment to the US Constitution was added to allow for freedom of speech. What kind of American are you that you don't support your own Constitution?

[2fishin2]

Typical US foreign policy. Schizophrenic. They've no problem with Egypt's Junta (who hates the US) or many others but love to drive their friends into their enemy's arms. Thailand does more trade with China and this short-sighted policy will cause Thailand to bond more closely with China to the detriment of both Thailand and the US. If the US State Dept. knew the first thing about Thais, they would know you don't get anywhere with ultimatums. Very disappointing.

Scholars rank US Secretary of State John Kerry dead last in terms of effectiveness.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/05/scholars-rank-kerry-dead-last-in-terms-of-effectiveness/

And this is from a newspaper sympathetic to the Obama administration.

I thought Kerry was going to be a decent SOS. But, I am shocked at how ineffective he is. He is shrill, arrogant, and really wooden. I liked Hillary. She commanded respect.

As far as the recent spat, who cares? What the US says at this point is something very few of us take seriously. The whole concept of building democracy is a fairly discredited notion, based on the recent past, and the nations the US has picked as being ripe for it. Forcing democracy down ones throat does not work. Thailand will make an effort to return to democracy. They had a modest form of it, and look at what a mess they made of it. The last ten years were an abomination, and I do not know of anyone who can call what they had in the last ten years true democracy. It was more like a bunch of children misbehaving.

And does the US have true democracy? Feels a bit more like a fascist republic, at the moment. And I say all this as an American. One who is witnessing a decline of the empire, and an erosion of its influence, at a distance.

If you are an American, time for you to return your passport to the US embassy in BKK. We dont need people like you living in another country, spreading BS and not contributing to anything American.

If you are an American, you should not scold someone for expressing their opinion. Are you one of those 'Holier than thou' Americans who sees other Americans falling short of your standards?

We dont need people like you living in another country...

Who is this 'we' you claim to represent? Speak for yourself. The very First Amendment to the US Constitution was added to allow for freedom of speech. What kind of American are you that you don't support your own Constitution?

Im an American who spent 34 years serving his country and the freedom you speak of. Thank you. But Im also from the school, there's a time and place for everything. Speaking disparagingly about your home country in a foreign forum isnt the place. Want to bitch about your country, do it in a setting with people who know and understand what you are talking about. Quit bitching and do something about it. My solution for you is since you hate your own country so much, just turn in your US card and get another country's.

[rametindallas]

MCD Obama Golf Goof.jpgSuspect the US needs Thailand more than Thailand needs the weak and leaderless US.

The "Goofy Golfer" in the Whitehouse can't even run his own country and has managed to let the Middle East slip into chaos, now the Bumbling Obama wants to stick his nose into Thailand's affairs. Very Uppity!

Given Thailand's strategic location in this region, Obama would be a fool to turn his back on this country but then again, given his track record elsewhere, he is capable of some very foolish moves.

Bring on 2016 when the US will have the opportunity to return to sane Leadership and regain its place as the Leader of the Free World.

I agree blundering Barry is a fool. But who is out there that is capable of good leadership? Ryan. Another Bush. Huckabee. Who? Any with vision and real leadership ability, something Barry sorely lacks? Who? There is very, very little talent at the National level in the US, and no nobility and integrity whatsoever.

Watch some Rand Paul speeches on YouTube; any subject. He wants to curb the US's military interventionism/adventurism, restore basic civil rights such as privacy from government snooping, stop using the 'drug war' to disenfranchise the minorities by imprisoning them, etc. He is a Libertarian which is a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Forty cents out of every dollar the government spends is borrowed and the national debt is over 17 Trillion dollars (a number that I defy anyone to get their head around) and the US must get its own house in order before it tell others what to do. The US leadership should lead by example. Rand flies coach and Hillary flies private jets exclusively. BTW, I voted for Hillary in 2008 as McCain was/is a war-mongering douche nozzle.

[rametindallas]

If you are an American, time for you to return your passport to the US embassy in BKK. We dont need people like you living in another country, spreading BS and not contributing to anything American.

If you are an American, you should not scold someone for expressing their opinion. Are you one of those 'Holier than thou' Americans who sees other Americans falling short of your standards?

We dont need people like you living in another country...

Who is this 'we' you claim to represent? Speak for yourself. The very First Amendment to the US Constitution was added to allow for freedom of speech. What kind of American are you that you don't support your own Constitution?

Im an American who spent 34 years serving his country and the freedom you speak of. Thank you. But Im also from the school, there's a time and place for everything. Speaking disparagingly about your home country in a foreign forum isnt the place. Want to bitch about your country, do it in a setting with people who know and understand what you are talking about. Quit bitching and do something about it. My solution for you is since you hate your own country so much, just turn in your US card and get another country's.

My family emigrated to the New World in 1735 from freedom-loving Rotterdam. My forefather was a Captain in George Washington's army and honorably discharged in 1787. My uncle was a B-17 bomber co-pilot with 23 missions over Germany. My brother was fighting in Laos in 1959/60 for the CIA via the Air Force. My best friend in Dallas is a retired 24 year Naval officer. I, myself, am 4-F (physical defect) and wasn't allowed in the service. I love my country but hate the criminal governments who've run it since the CIA's assassination of JFK. One can be a patriot and not like the government that is leading the country to perdition. Too bad for you that you are so brainwashed as to think that the US government's farts smell like perfume. I'll let you in on something. The people of the US and the government of the US are two different things. I love the people and the Constitution and hate those who abuse either. That includes this government and the seven governments before it. I can bitch about the US government because it is my Constitutional right. When did you give yourself the authority to make the rules of when my First Amendment rights apply or not? You sound like a pretty piss-poor example of an American but I won't ask you to turn in your 'US card' (whatever that is).

[spidermike007]

MCD Obama Golf Goof.jpgSuspect the US needs Thailand more than Thailand needs the weak and leaderless US.

The "Goofy Golfer" in the Whitehouse can't even run his own country and has managed to let the Middle East slip into chaos, now the Bumbling Obama wants to stick his nose into Thailand's affairs. Very Uppity!

Given Thailand's strategic location in this region, Obama would be a fool to turn his back on this country but then again, given his track record elsewhere, he is capable of some very foolish moves.

Bring on 2016 when the US will have the opportunity to return to sane Leadership and regain its place as the Leader of the Free World.

I agree blundering Barry is a fool. But who is out there that is capable of good leadership? Ryan. Another Bush. Huckabee. Who? Any with vision and real leadership ability, something Barry sorely lacks? Who? There is very, very little talent at the National level in the US, and no nobility and integrity whatsoever.

Watch some Rand Paul speeches on YouTube; any subject. He wants to curb the US's military interventionism/adventurism, restore basic civil rights such as privacy from government snooping, stop using the 'drug war' to disenfranchise the minorities by imprisoning them, etc. He is a Libertarian which is a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Forty cents out of every dollar the government spends is borrowed and the national debt is over 17 Trillion dollars (a number that I defy anyone to get their head around) and the US must get its own house in order before it tell others what to do. The US leadership should lead by example. Rand flies coach and Hillary flies private jets exclusively. BTW, I voted for Hillary in 2008 as McCain was/is a war-mongering douche nozzle.

Many of us like Rand Paul. But, I was referring to guys who have a chance of being elected? Who are supported by the powers that allow people to be elected. I also liked Bill Bradley, and Bill Richardson. Two of the last truly noble people who ran for that God forsaken office of US President. I hate to be a cynic about this, but I doubt we will ever see a noble, and righteous, and honest person ever occupying that office. Unless, of course something major happens to break things down.

[rametindallas]

MCD Obama Golf Goof.jpgSuspect the US needs Thailand more than Thailand needs the weak and leaderless US.

The "Goofy Golfer" in the Whitehouse can't even run his own country and has managed to let the Middle East slip into chaos, now the Bumbling Obama wants to stick his nose into Thailand's affairs. Very Uppity!

Given Thailand's strategic location in this region, Obama would be a fool to turn his back on this country but then again, given his track record elsewhere, he is capable of some very foolish moves.

Bring on 2016 when the US will have the opportunity to return to sane Leadership and regain its place as the Leader of the Free World.

I agree blundering Barry is a fool. But who is out there that is capable of good leadership? Ryan. Another Bush. Huckabee. Who? Any with vision and real leadership ability, something Barry sorely lacks? Who? There is very, very little talent at the National level in the US, and no nobility and integrity whatsoever.

Watch some Rand Paul speeches on YouTube; any subject. He wants to curb the US's military interventionism/adventurism, restore basic civil rights such as privacy from government snooping, stop using the 'drug war' to disenfranchise the minorities by imprisoning them, etc. He is a Libertarian which is a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Forty cents out of every dollar the government spends is borrowed and the national debt is over 17 Trillion dollars (a number that I defy anyone to get their head around) and the US must get its own house in order before it tell others what to do. The US leadership should lead by example. Rand flies coach and Hillary flies private jets exclusively. BTW, I voted for Hillary in 2008 as McCain was/is a war-mongering douche nozzle.

Many of us like Rand Paul. But, I was referring to guys who have a chance of being elected? Who are supported by the powers that allow people to be elected. I also liked Bill Bradley, and Bill Richardson. Two of the last truly noble people who ran for that God forsaken office of US President. I hate to be a cynic about this, but I doubt we will ever see a noble, and righteous, and honest person ever occupying that office. Unless, of course something major happens to break things down.

The Republican Party screwed with the rules to get Romney to be the nominee (sorta like Thai government contracts that fit only one bidder) and Rand Paul is the ONLY candidate to have set up offices in all fifty states. Barak Obama came out of nowhere using a similar strategy to beat Hillary in '08. Remember the story of the Tortoise and the Hare. Many Democratic Party members are upset that Hillary has no competition. It is disgusting that, in every country, the nominees of the very rich are the only ones to be competitive.

[2fishin2]

If you are an American, time for you to return your passport to the US embassy in BKK. We dont need people like you living in another country, spreading BS and not contributing to anything American.

If you are an American, you should not scold someone for expressing their opinion. Are you one of those 'Holier than thou' Americans who sees other Americans falling short of your standards?

We dont need people like you living in another country...

Who is this 'we' you claim to represent? Speak for yourself. The very First Amendment to the US Constitution was added to allow for freedom of speech. What kind of American are you that you don't support your own Constitution?

Im an American who spent 34 years serving his country and the freedom you speak of. Thank you. But Im also from the school, there's a time and place for everything. Speaking disparagingly about your home country in a foreign forum isnt the place. Want to bitch about your country, do it in a setting with people who know and understand what you are talking about. Quit bitching and do something about it. My solution for you is since you hate your own country so much, just turn in your US card and get another country's.

My family emigrated to the New World in 1735 from freedom-loving Rotterdam. My forefather was a Captain in George Washington's army and honorably discharged in 1787. My uncle was a B-17 bomber co-pilot with 23 missions over Germany. My brother was fighting in Laos in 1959/60 for the CIA via the Air Force. My best friend in Dallas is a retired 24 year Naval officer. I, myself, am 4-F (physical defect) and wasn't allowed in the service. I love my country but hate the criminal governments who've run it since the CIA's assassination of JFK. One can be a patriot and not like the government that is leading the country to perdition. Too bad for you that you are so brainwashed as to think that the US government's farts smell like perfume. I'll let you in on something. The people of the US and the government of the US are two different things. I love the people and the Constitution and hate those who abuse either. That includes this government and the seven governments before it. I can bitch about the US government because it is my Constitutional right. When did you give yourself the authority to make the rules of when my First Amendment rights apply or not? You sound like a pretty piss-poor example of an American but I won't ask you to turn in your 'US card' (whatever that is).

Why are you bitching here? What's your point other than to say "I hate my country"! But I see where you are coming from now with an earlier post....you like Rand Paul. You think his views are good? Hes a loonie hahahahaha now I get where you are coming from. Dont worry, I wont litter you anymore with my thoughts. You arent deserving of them after showing support for that nutcase. Hahahahaha

[spidermike007]

Im an American who spent 34 years serving his country and the freedom you speak of. Thank you. But Im also from the school, there's a time and place for everything. Speaking disparagingly about your home country in a foreign forum isnt the place. Want to bitch about your country, do it in a setting with people who know and understand what you are talking about. Quit bitching and do something about it. My solution for you is since you hate your own country so much, just turn in your US card and get another country's.

My family emigrated to the New World in 1735 from freedom-loving Rotterdam. My forefather was a Captain in George Washington's army and honorably discharged in 1787. My uncle was a B-17 bomber co-pilot with 23 missions over Germany. My brother was fighting in Laos in 1959/60 for the CIA via the Air Force. My best friend in Dallas is a retired 24 year Naval officer. I, myself, am 4-F (physical defect) and wasn't allowed in the service. I love my country but hate the criminal governments who've run it since the CIA's assassination of JFK. One can be a patriot and not like the government that is leading the country to perdition. Too bad for you that you are so brainwashed as to think that the US government's farts smell like perfume. I'll let you in on something. The people of the US and the government of the US are two different things. I love the people and the Constitution and hate those who abuse either. That includes this government and the seven governments before it. I can bitch about the US government because it is my Constitutional right. When did you give yourself the authority to make the rules of when my First Amendment rights apply or not? You sound like a pretty piss-poor example of an American but I won't ask you to turn in your 'US card' (whatever that is).

Why are you bitching here? What's your point other than to say "I hate my country"! But I see where you are coming from now with an earlier post....you like Rand Paul. You think his views are good? Hes a loonie hahahahaha now I get where you are coming from. Dont worry, I wont litter you anymore with my thoughts. You arent deserving of them after showing support for that nutcase. Hahahahaha

It is the kind of small mindedness that translates criticism of current, misguided policy, into "I hate my country", that has started wars, over this kind of naive foolishness. The very underpinnings of the constitution allow us Americans to criticize the government all we want. And there is no place for the Cheney "black or white" style mindset, in an open and free dialogue, like we have here on this forum. A man is entitled to support whatever candidate he likes. I also like some of what Rand has to say. Not sure if I would ever vote for him, but that is besides the point. There have been dozens of criminals in the highest office in the US government in the past couple of decades. More than likely many of them have stolen massive fortunes (I refer to the Bush Jr. mafia) and started unless and ridiculously expensive wars, that have led to a dramatic expansion of terrorism recruitment worldwide. And you have the nerve to challenge our ability to be critical of that? You have the temerity to label us as haters, because we choose to express an opinion that is not entirely "rah rah"? You really need to get some perspective.

[2fishin2]

Im an American who spent 34 years serving his country and the freedom you speak of. Thank you. But Im also from the school, there's a time and place for everything. Speaking disparagingly about your home country in a foreign forum isnt the place. Want to bitch about your country, do it in a setting with people who know and understand what you are talking about. Quit bitching and do something about it. My solution for you is since you hate your own country so much, just turn in your US card and get another country's.

My family emigrated to the New World in 1735 from freedom-loving Rotterdam. My forefather was a Captain in George Washington's army and honorably discharged in 1787. My uncle was a B-17 bomber co-pilot with 23 missions over Germany. My brother was fighting in Laos in 1959/60 for the CIA via the Air Force. My best friend in Dallas is a retired 24 year Naval officer. I, myself, am 4-F (physical defect) and wasn't allowed in the service. I love my country but hate the criminal governments who've run it since the CIA's assassination of JFK. One can be a patriot and not like the government that is leading the country to perdition. Too bad for you that you are so brainwashed as to think that the US government's farts smell like perfume. I'll let you in on something. The people of the US and the government of the US are two different things. I love the people and the Constitution and hate those who abuse either. That includes this government and the seven governments before it. I can bitch about the US government because it is my Constitutional right. When did you give yourself the authority to make the rules of when my First Amendment rights apply or not? You sound like a pretty piss-poor example of an American but I won't ask you to turn in your 'US card' (whatever that is).

Why are you bitching here? What's your point other than to say "I hate my country"! But I see where you are coming from now with an earlier post....you like Rand Paul. You think his views are good? Hes a loonie hahahahaha now I get where you are coming from. Dont worry, I wont litter you anymore with my thoughts. You arent deserving of them after showing support for that nutcase. Hahahahaha

It is the kind of small mindedness that translates criticism of current, misguided policy, into "I hate my country", that has started wars, over this kind of naive foolishness. The very underpinnings of the constitution allow us Americans to criticize the government all we want. And there is no place for the Cheney "black or white" style mindset, in an open and free dialogue, like we have here on this forum. A man is entitled to support whatever candidate he likes. I also like some of what Rand has to say. Not sure if I would ever vote for him, but that is besides the point. There have been dozens of criminals in the highest office in the US government in the past couple of decades. More than likely many of them have stolen massive fortunes (I refer to the Bush Jr. mafia) and started unless and ridiculously expensive wars, that have led to a dramatic expansion of terrorism recruitment worldwide. And you have the nerve to challenge our ability to be critical of that? You have the temerity to label us as haters, because we choose to express an opinion that is not entirely "rah rah"? You really need to get some perspective.

First this isnt the thread to do this in, read the title. There is a time and place for everything and this thread isnt a debate about what political US candidate you support.

I have perspective, that's why Ive called you guys out. Time and place for everything and its not here.

You guys should make your own thread about "Why I hate the US" as that's all you are saying.

[WheresWaldo]

Im an American who spent 34 years serving his country and the freedom you speak of. Thank you. But Im also from the school, there's a time and place for everything. Speaking disparagingly about your home country in a foreign forum isnt the place. Want to bitch about your country, do it in a setting with people who know and understand what you are talking about. Quit bitching and do something about it. My solution for you is since you hate your own country so much, just turn in your US card and get another country's.

What's the matter with you. Why do you accuse everybody who has an opinion different from yours of hatred? You accused me of hate when I posted my disapproving opinion several pages back. Hate and hatred are pretty strong words for a simple opinion. Perhaps you should re-read the US Constitution, if you have ever even read it. If you want a PDF copy, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

Cheers.

Edited February 10, 2015 by WheresWaldo

[spidermike007]

Im an American who spent 34 years serving his country and the freedom you speak of. Thank you. But Im also from the school, there's a time and place for everything. Speaking disparagingly about your home country in a foreign forum isnt the place. Want to bitch about your country, do it in a setting with people who know and understand what you are talking about. Quit bitching and do something about it. My solution for you is since you hate your own country so much, just turn in your US card and get another country's.

What's the matter with you. Why do you accuse everybody who has an opinion different from yours of hatred? You accused me of hate when I posted my disapproving opinion several pages back. Hate and hatred are pretty strong words for a simple opinion. Perhaps you should re-read the US Constitution, if you have ever even read it. If you want a PDF copy, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

Cheers.

I agree completely. The poster suffers from a complete lack of understanding, as to the whole point of this forum. Discussion is healthy, and so is criticism. His skin is far too thin. Not sure he understands the nature of a constitutional democracy.

[JeffreyO]

MCD Obama Golf Goof.jpgSuspect the US needs Thailand more than Thailand needs the weak and leaderless US.

The "Goofy Golfer" in the Whitehouse can't even run his own country and has managed to let the Middle East slip into chaos, now the Bumbling Obama wants to stick his nose into Thailand's affairs. Very Uppity!

Given Thailand's strategic location in this region, Obama would be a fool to turn his back on this country but then again, given his track record elsewhere, he is capable of some very foolish moves.

Bring on 2016 when the US will have the opportunity to return to sane Leadership and regain its place as the Leader of the Free World.

Let me guess, Republican? So you prefer... Bush? The one who brought crisis to the middle east already? Or maybe you prefer Reagan who created social systems that the Republicans now say hurt the country but still praise him? His policies half-worked because they were half liberal. You should study how strong the US economy has been under democrats and under republicans, you might be shocked.

Oh, and it wasn't Obama that made the US a joke on the international stage, it was Bush, your boy wonder.