The Pixel War Continues...

[vaultdweller0013]

... and Canon is now back in the lead at 50MP.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7433724324/canon-eos-5ds-and-5ds-r-announced-with-50mp-full-frame-sensors

Rumor is the sensor is Canon designed but manufacturing is outsourced to Sony.

If history is any indication, this means that Sony will wait 2 years before releasing a camera with a 50MP sensor and in the intervening time come up with a new camera mount, let's call it the I-Mount, that will get the sensor, but the sensor will not be released for E-mount (and A-mount will still be on-going, with 5 new "III" versions of existing lenses, but it will be rumored to be discontinued in the near future).

[MJP]

Why can't they have a dynamic range, colour accuracy and an ISO noise war instead?

[FracturedRabbit]

Getting a lot of hate on Dpreview. Same painful dynamic range, indicating this is just a scaled up 7D sensor.

Nikon and Sony will not be losing sleep.

[MJP]

Getting a lot of hate on Dpreview. Same painful dynamic range, indicating this is just a scaled up 7D sensor.

Nikon and Sony will not be losing sleep.

They might be. I think it's a Sony sensor (to be confirmed).

Fear not, Pentax will have it soon and make it work properly.

[ETatBKK]

8,688 x 5,792 pixels, love it !

it is a new level of image definition, especially for a wide angle lover like me; small details should be more crispy. it also get a lot more flexibility on post processing, but my computer has a different say :-(

[Phra Ek]

8,688 x 5,792 pixels, love it !

it is a new level of image definition, especially for a wide angle lover like me; small details should be more crispy. it also get a lot more flexibility on post processing, but my computer has a different say :-(

With so many pixels it would be good if it could change formats from landscape to portrait without having to rotate the camera 90 degrees. It makes me smile when reviewers go into great detail about button placement and ergonomics - seemingly ignoring the fact that the design all goes to pot when you have to hold the camera sideways to frame the shot in portrait mode. With 50 MP sensors we could just have a button that switches to portrait format without rotating the camera.

- that would be a better use for all those pixels than even bigger raw files!

[ETatBKK]

some video here :

The Impossible Brief: the Canon EOS 5DsR - our new 50 megapixels DSLR - tested by Georges Antoni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6KyWbns0ro

The Freedom of High Resolution with the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R DSLR Cameras

Introducing the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl6AKRadEsw

Edited February 6, 2015 by ETatBKK

[FracturedRabbit]

Getting a lot of hate on Dpreview. Same painful dynamic range, indicating this is just a scaled up 7D sensor.

Nikon and Sony will not be losing sleep.

They might be. I think it's a Sony sensor (to be confirmed).

Fear not, Pentax will have it soon and make it work properly.

Sony sensors have much better dynamic range than Canon sensors, and this is one is in the woeful Canon range.

[Phra Ek]

some video here :

The Impossible Brief: the Canon EOS 5DsR - our new 50 megapixels DSLR - tested by Georges Antoni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6KyWbns0ro

The Freedom of High Resolution with the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R DSLR Cameras

Introducing the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl6AKRadEsw

The best to prevent vibration from the mirror - is to get rid of the mirror!

[MJP]

Getting a lot of hate on Dpreview. Same painful dynamic range, indicating this is just a scaled up 7D sensor.

Nikon and Sony will not be losing sleep.

They might be. I think it's a Sony sensor (to be confirmed).

Fear not, Pentax will have it soon and make it work properly.

Sony sensors have much better dynamic range than Canon sensors, and this is one is in the woeful Canon range.

What's the DR EV range on it? Please don't tell me 12.x like the 5DMkIII.

[ETatBKK]

some video here :

The Impossible Brief: the Canon EOS 5DsR - our new 50 megapixels DSLR - tested by Georges Antoni

The Freedom of High Resolution with the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R DSLR Cameras

Introducing the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R

The best to prevent vibration from the mirror - is to get rid of the mirror!

Canon also introduced an updated mirrorless M3, at Euro770 in Apr 2015. it may not be ready yet, I am not ready neither.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/cameras/eos_m3.do

[vaultdweller0013]

Getting a lot of hate on Dpreview. Same painful dynamic range, indicating this is just a scaled up 7D sensor.

Nikon and Sony will not be losing sleep.

They might be. I think it's a Sony sensor (to be confirmed).

Fear not, Pentax will have it soon and make it work properly.

Sony sensors have much better dynamic range than Canon sensors, and this is one is in the woeful Canon range.

The rumor is that this is a 100% Canon design and that they are using Sony Semiconductor as a fab to produce the sensors because Sony has enough capacity to keep up with demand. However, this would mean that Sony has the tech to make a 50MP full frame sensor of there own, and there are separate rumors of a high megapixel a7r replacement (a7ii or a9), so it may not be surprising to see 50MP from Sony in the near future. (Unless Canon bought off the Sony Semiconductor division by paying $TEXAS for the sensors and got a no compete clause, which would be very disappointing)

[MJP]

Oh gawd blimey, Guvnor!!!

If the DR of the 50mp chip isn't much of an advance on the 5DIII chip . . .

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-5D-Mark-III

11.7EVS!!!

That's poor.

[FracturedRabbit]

some video here :

The Impossible Brief: the Canon EOS 5DsR - our new 50 megapixels DSLR - tested by Georges Antoni

The Freedom of High Resolution with the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R DSLR Cameras

Introducing the Canon EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R

The best to prevent vibration from the mirror - is to get rid of the mirror!

Canon also introduced an updated mirrorless M3, at Euro770 in Apr 2015. it may not be ready yet, I am not ready neither.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/cameras/eos_m3.do

Then new M apparently focuses 6 times faster than the original M; which would be great if the original M hadn't been 8 times slower than everything else.

This is Canon's flagship (and only) mirrorless interchangeable lens camera in a market awash with innovation from the likes of Sony, Fuji and Olympus. Sigh.

[Guest]

The best to prevent vibration from the mirror - is to get rid of the mirror!

What is the benefit of the mirror? No latency when pre-viewing the image, compared to some latency from the sensor -> processing -> display time?

[ETatBKK]

Then new M apparently focuses 6 times faster than the original M; which would be great if the original M hadn't been 8 times slower than everything else.

This is Canon's flagship (and only) mirrorless interchangeable lens camera in a market awash with innovation from the likes of Sony, Fuji and Olympus. Sigh.

the beauty of the M is not really the camera, not the mirrorless, or the speedy focus . . . it is the rich range of the quality Canon lenses ! being a Canon shooter, it is a brilliant idea to have a quality compact camera that share any lens in the bag.

yeah, the M is not really there yet . . .

[rhythmworx]

Any more than 18MP is pretty much useless.

How much glass is there that can resolve that resolution?

They can sell ice to Inuit's though.

[MJP]

Any more than 18MP is pretty much useless.

How much glass is there that can resolve that resolution?

They can sell ice to Inuit's though.

I totally agree.

Best photos come from a camera you understand, one you can use effectively to its potential. One you want to pick up and use.

Realized lately all my best stuff came from the Pentax K-5IIs with 31mm and 77mm Limited's. 16mp APS-C. The reason being it's a superb all round camera, easy handling and fast enough. K-3 is nearly as good, but the additional weight doesn't help.

[ETatBKK]

oh . . . remember those old days in film camera with old lens, the resolution is by far higher than 50MP. we count gain per inch, on Kodakchrome ( the smoothness ) and the pushable Kodak Tri-X ( the gain monster ) !

we actually lose the balanced definition in this digital age. yet, everyone is chasing the MP and the crispiness, they put the tonal quality a bit far behind. when we put pictures from a Canon 5D III side-by-side with those from a Leica M4, you know what I mean.

quote MJP #2 - 'why can't they have a dynamic range, colour accuracy and an ISO noise war instead?'

[sunshine51]

On a personal level I reckon any pixel count on a FF 35mm sensor over 36 Mp is a waste of time.

That is...unless you want to make a roadway billboard (advertising hoarding for me Brit mates!)

and then you ain't gonna be using a 35mm camera are you? Most likely MF or even LF cameras

so the colour seperation won't look like shit.

Pixel wars...sensor wars...wahtever you call it...kinda like "Either you're with us or against us" as

Dubya ( Bush) once said.

I mean if we're gonna have a war then by golly lets have a war!

How about eye control autofocus? This really does work and is razor sharp after you get it

calibrated. My old Canon EOS 3 had it and wherever my eye was looking, that subject was

sharp...not simply sharp but razor sharp. Couple that with good...no great glass and you

really have a capable camera. Whether you can compose a shot is another matter altogether

or even if what you see is shot worthy or not...it WILL be razor sharp.

ISO improvements....ahhhhh amplifying light also amplifies noise...but the noise can be filtered

out to such an extent...look at Hubbles pix and that technology is old, so what are the camera

makers of today doing in this regard. I'll tell you what they're doing...sitting on their asses,

picking their noses and scratching their pubes that's what they're doing...because they're

doing sweet FA else. Save for trying to blind/BS us with pixel numbers.

How about synthetic aperture...you control your DOF in post. All the camera has to do is

write the SA metadata into the pic. Screw GPS, I know where I'm at whilst shooting, remove

that crap...gimme SA please.

When a maker comes up with a new Image processor chip how about doing something

with it to make skin tones more realistic? Bout time since the chips can do most everything

else these days. Cuppa coffee would be nice too...or at least the ability to turn on my manual

coffee pot...stick that in the chip...how bout that camera makers.

Auto white balance...it's getting better but can be much better IMO...get the colour temps

spot on camera makers...or pull it and let us manually to it to our hearts content.

Fix shit lke "banding" and oil spots on sensors and ensure that when every single camera

body leaves the factory this shit don't happen to anybody at any time. And if it should crop

up, because it's only a machine and machines do break down, fess up to it & fix it or

replace it FOC without any squabbles from your techs anywhere in the world. While on

this...make every camera & lens warranty a "worldwide" warranty regardless of where

purchased.

Get it right the first time like in the "old days" when we shot film. Or else there will be a war.

Rant not over...just starting.....

Edited February 7, 2015 by sunshine51

[MJP]

We need a "Let's design a camera" thread.

I still think the reason we don't get the combination of what is obviously great is down to patents held by individual manufacturers.

[sunshine51]

^^^ M....Best statement you have made so far today! I fully agree.

[MJP]

^^^ M....Best statement you have made so far today! I fully agree.

You really should try out a Pentax.

[sunshine51]

^^^ M...Oh I have & I like em. Just so much Nik glass in my possession tho.

[MJP]

^^^ M...Oh I have & I like em. Just so much Nik glass in my possession tho.

See, I'm fully invested in Pentax FF glass (with two notable APS-C exceptions) and just cannot face moving to another mount. I suspect the FF will be out not at the end of the year but at CP+, so very soon. The 70-200/2.8 and 150-450/4 went on sale today.

Anyone want an A7r + grip + bats + FE55/1.8?

[Goompa]

Maybe ? You have been talking it up for a while now .

[MJP]

Maybe ? You have been talking it up for a while now .

Nah, it's great having a 36mp FF sensor. But the camera sucks. It's okay for . . . well . . . stationary things like pencils, paperclips and landscapes. But for everything else it's hopeless. Anything that moves. Anything not in perfect light. Any shot lost by shutter lag. It's a studio camera, landscape camera. But not an all rounder, by a very, very wide margin.

[Goompa]

Most all cameras have their limitations , one reason for the many lens options , I think your design a camera idea is great , but never will come to fruition so we all have to be marginalised by what is available , sad but true in respects.

I have embellished myself in a few designs and frankly I am still at a loss , I do think that it is just consumerism though and while the new advancements are sure to have all of those wanting new and exciting developments , me included , I don't believe that hype and megapixels will improve my skills.

Getting to understand the Camera you are using is paramount to the end result that you deliver , and if your ability exceeds the constraints of the machine then it is time to move on and upgrade I believe .

I am still in the learning stages of photography and I have not given up yet , the confusing issues have been for me the want or desire to let the camera show the end result , this is detrimental to the cause !

For me it does not matter how many pixels or how much DR the camera has primarily , the ability to be able to compose an image is fundamental .

Ok pixels are great but I am not a professional , I don't believe ever will be , and as a bonus we all can post produce to get what we see as being a good image .

Maybe this is just a lot of wind to you guys , and not pertinent to the topic , it is just my take on it .

[vaultdweller0013]

Any more than 18MP is pretty much useless.

How much glass is there that can resolve that resolution?

They can sell ice to Inuit's though.

Well, if you want to know how a lens will work on the 5DS, just look at how the lens works on a 7D; the pixel pitch is pretty close between the two. Since I generally don't hear people complaining about current APS-C sensors out resolving current high quality full-frame glass, I will assume it should be fine on a 50mp full-frame (of coarse, corner performance would be the unknown at this point). Sure, there will be room for improvement, and I would expect newer high-end lenses to take this into consideration in their designs (for example, the new Tamron 15-30mm is supposed to be designed to resolve the 50mp FF sensors).

To put it in perspective, below is a quick comparison of pixel width in microns (approximate; sensor width/image width) for a few different cameras.

RX100iii (20mp 1") 2.41

E-M10 (16mp m43) 3.77

X-T1 (16mp APS-C) 4.82

7dii (20mp APS-C) 4.09

a77ii (24mp APS-C) 3.92

NX1 (28mp APS-C) 3.63

a99 (24mp FF) 5.97

a7r (36mp FF) 4.87

5DS (50mp FF) 4.14

[sunshine51]

Do any of you find that back when there was only DX (APS-C) there were less rants?!

Or is it just me?

Oh to have a 20 foot container loaded with Tri-X...even if it is expired by some years...hah!