UK visa to remain with family - English tests in Bangkok?

[fbf]

After much reading, I think I have a good idea of the requirements, but I just want to be sure about how it works. Also, how can I gauge the difficulty of the the test first?

Background: in June I will marry my Thai fiancée, and before then we want to prepare for her visa application "Apply to remain in the UK with family" (to be completed and submitted shortly after the wedding). For the English test requirements, here's what I can gather so far:

1. She needs to pass a test with CEFR level A1 (from the Knowledge of English section). They link to this PDF (widely cited on these forums) showing the list of test providers.

2. I find the document a bit confusing, but from what I can gather I need to find tests that include an A1 level, follow the link to the provider's website and then see if they have anything in Thailand (she lives near-ish to Bangkok, so ideally there).

3. From looking online, almost everyone seems to use Vantage Siam (not sure if I'm linking to the best entry page) for the Cambridge Key English Test.

4. There's something called a BULATS test, but as far as I can tell it's no longer valid (although the Vangtage Siam don't seem to have updated their URL, as it's http://www.vantage-siam.com/bulats_test.php) - but the page content at least seems current.

5. It's not possible to take the required speaking and listening tests only; reading and writing tests must also be taken (although if the latter results drag the overall score below the pass mark, the test results can still be used as discussed here).

About Vantage Siam - it looks like a doable option so we'll probably go with that one. However I'm interested to know about the alternatives just in case I'm missing a trick.

Cambridge Key English Test

Vantage Siam - mentioned above

Harrow School - they don't offer the test for visas: ("We do not offer examinations for A1 UK visa requirement but this is offered by http://www.vantage-siam.com"

Normington Examinations Centre - I can only find an email contact, no website. I suppose it's possible for a perfectly good English test provider to not have a website, but it seems unlikely. If I can't find a website I probably won't bother.

City And Guilds

I can't find any test centres in Thailand, and in any case they are not renewing their licence as a secure test provider.

Pearson Test of English Academic (PTE Academic)

This organisation haven't fully grasped the concept of hyperlinks, but starting from this page you can click 'Test Centres' and find one in Bangkok.

The test seems very thorough, and here's where I'd like to know if I've misunderstood things. This is a more in-depth (difficult) test, but to get an A1 certificate requires a much lower grade. So, if I understand correctly, then this is a viable if not optimal route to an A1 certificate (the test is long, and if her English isn't at least B2 level she'll feel pretty miserable by the end of it).

"Graded Examinations in Spoken English" - Trinity

Trinity College seem to have a viable test, but as far as I can see the test centres are only in the UK (London Waterloo being my closest).

It's been mentioned in this post that someone staying on a visit visa can take the test in the UK, but not study for the test. Assuming my fiancée has good enough English to pass, she is expected to stay with me in April (subject to a small possibility of plans changing). So, we could try this first. If so, does informal studying online (watching YouTube videos of tests etc.) count as studying, in some way break any visa rules or at least give a bad impression for future applications?

At a glance, it seems that she can take the test with any organisation she likes, so long as it's Vantage Siam.

In terms of difficulty, it's very hard to tell in advance. I think her English is possibly above A1 level in some respects (overall ability and confidence, vocabulary etc.) but she's not always so good with grammar (especially past/future tenses). She would be able to understand most of what I'm writing here (maybe looking up 10-20 words) but it would take her a long time and she might make a couple of mistakes. She can converse easily with me, but finds it hard to follow when I'm chatting to my friends.

I noticed Vantage Siam have a "Key Placement Test" (linked from the bottom of this page) to determine if the candidate should first take one of two courses: "Key A1 Prep Class", or the longer "Key A1 English Course". I took this test myself, and found all questions easy except two that required matching Thai text to English. I can't read Thai so just guessed, and thought I'd take that into account when I got the score. Well, I scored 18 out of 35 yesterday and 24 out of 35 today. Either the two questions in Thai carry more weight, or the test is extremely picky about formatting - it asks for free-form answers to date and time questions. The first time, I answered in (IMHO) better English than on the example image. BTW, the questions are identical if you re-take the test.

I'm not going to bother asking my fiancée to take this test, as it's probably flawed (I don't want to consider the possibility that my English isn't good enough!) It could be (albeit probably isn't) a cynical ploy to give people a low score and thereby encourage them to pay for a prep course. But, if someone with good Thai and English can post a screen shot with a better score than 24, be my guest.

Sorry for the length of this post. In a nutshell... for those with a Thai partner, did they do better or worse on the test than you expected? And is Vantage Siam the only real option?

Edited February 7, 2015 by fbf

[PeeJay1959]

The KET offered by Vantage Siam is indeed the only viable test offered in Thailand, but is fundamentally flawed in that reading and writing affect the score. The only test I am aware of that just test speaking and listening is Trinity, this is widely available in the UK, so it depends how proficient she is.

[7by7]

It is, unfortunately, the case that all available tests in Thailand will include reading and writing and that the performance in these areas will effect the overall score. This is the policy of the test providers, not UKVI.

However, the candidate should be given a result sheet showing the score for each category, and the entry clearance section at the embassy have confirmed that as long as enough is scored in speaking and listening then this will be sufficient; even if the score in reading and writing means the whole test has been failed and the candidate therefore does not get a pass certificate.

See this post.

Edited February 8, 2015 by 7by7

[fbf]

Thanks for the responses.

7by7, I notice in the post you link to there was talk back in 2011 about proposals for raising the required level to B1. Am I right in thinking this hasn't happened yet? Or is it for a later stage (further leave to remain, indefinite leave to remain)?

I found an online practice Cambridge Key English Test. It only lets you answer 13 questions. Out of the 13, I scored 13, so I don't feel it's flawed like the Vantage Siam "sales" test. My fiancée scored 10, without any previous practice and while not feeling very well. So, even though this test doesn't affect the visa application, it doesn't look like it will cause any grief either.

I've also looked at this speaking test (video at the bottom). I feel she will have no problem with passing this test. She might be disappointed if she doesn't get the highest grade, but a pass seems very achievable. This test is on the Cambridge English for Schools, section, but the page with BULATS in the URL and KET in the body text doesn't have any sample videos. Hopefully she won't need to do the test with another candidate as shown here!

As an alternative, she's planning to be with me for a few weeks in April. The Trinity test seems equally doable, and might be less hassle than a trip to Bangkok.

Does anyone have any experience in waiting for the certificate (paper or online, whatever's required) in either case? Trinity says it takes 8 weeks (a bit slow, but doable for us). I can't find the same information for Vantage Siam.

Edited February 8, 2015 by fbf

[bigyin]

My wife did the Vantage Siam test last October. It is quite a stressful procedure as most of the time is spent being tested on reading and writing which are of course not required in terms of the visa. This tends to knock the confidence of the Thai applicants but having said that my wife scored 59 with 45 being the requirement for A1. It is certainly not a piece of cake to get through and my wife did the 3 day prep course. I don't think she would have passed without it and we speak English to each other every day. You can access the result online and print of the score sheet after 1 week I think and the certificate came through about 1 week later. I believe that the Embassy go direct to the Cambridge website to access the score but I am sending the score sheet and certificate with the application as well. The test result also lasts for life so no need to take again when applying for FLR.

[fbf]

I see, thanks for a very helpful and detailed account.

Well it seems if I have the option for her to take a speaking/listening test only in the UK, that might be better. I think she'd rather travel to London with me than to Bangkok on her own anyway. If she fails, then on her return to Thailand she'll have more free time by then, so can do the 3 day course and then take the Vantage Siam test.

[bigyin]

I woud certainly try to just do a speaking and listening test if at all possible as Thais quite naturally struggle with the reading and writing parts given the different alphabet and very different grammar. Just as an example they had to write a 20 word e mail but they had to start 'Dear... ' and end with 'yours sincerely'. Who does that in an e mail? And it had to be accurate in terms of past/future tense etc. As I said very stressful and very, very unnecessary. Good luck.

[7by7]

7by7, I notice in the post you link to there was talk back in 2011 about proposals for raising the required level to B1. Am I right in thinking this hasn't happened yet? Or is it for a later stage (further leave to remain, indefinite leave to remain)?

The requirement for the initial visa and for FLR are both still A1 in speaking and listening; and the certificate for the initial visa can be used for FLR; even if it has expired; provided the test provider is still on the approved list.

The requirement for ILR is B1 in speaking and listening and the LitUK test; which requires reading ability at B1 or better.

[durhamboy]

The requirement for the initial visa and for FLR are both still A1 in speaking and listening; and the certificate for the initial visa can be used for FLR; even if it has expired; provided the test provider is still on the approved list.

I think that under what is called a s.32D clarification of the rules a pass from a test provider that is subsequently struck off (for reasons other than fraud) will be accepted for further visa applications (such as FLR) if it formed part of a previously successful visa application e.g. for the initial settlement visa.

[fbf]

Thanks again for all the great advice. Useful to know that the test results can be reused.

Still undecided about doing the test in London or Bangkok but it seems both are viable, so we'll just see how our plans come together.

[7by7]

The advantage of taking the test in the UK whilst there as a visitor is that most providers will let her take just the speaking and listening tests.

How the costs work out, i.e. whether it's cheaper in the UK or Thailand, I don't know.

Remember, though, that whilst she can take the test while in the UK as a general or family visitor, she cannot undertake a course of study for it. To do that she would need a student visitor visa.

[bigyin]

Good point about the study 7by7. Having put my wife through the Vantage Siam test I would say that if at all possible the London option is the way to go because of the difficulty of the reading and writing parts which absolutely does affect the performance on the 2 important parts of speaking and listening. The poor ladies who took the test the day I was there were completely exhausted by the end and were nervous wrecks.

[fbf]

Good point 7by7 about studying and no worries as I was aware of that, and there probably won't be enough time anyway.

Ideally she'll do the test in London, and then subsequently study for further tests without the pressure of a visa, as it will help her to find work here.

[Guemlum]

Great post fbf and most helpful. This has really helped me out in answering a lot of similar questions I was going to post. Good luck to your fiancée with the test.

Guemlum

[fbf]

Glad it was useful. I seem to have trouble keeping it brief sometimes, so it's good if you managed to find the info you needed in there!

[fbf]

I can't edit my top post but if you stumble across this topic please note - it is now out of date!

See this topic: Important changes to the UK A1 Level English tests for settlement visas

(I would prefer not to bump this, but it's still new enough to be seen).