Attention Deficit/hyperactivity/etc.

[PeaceBlondie]

Two of us who are on the Gay Forum mentioned that we have been diagnosed by more than one expert each, as H-ADD adults. It's a controversial subject (which I couldn't find another thread about, on this forum).

Is there such a condition, among adults or children? Does Ritalin (called Rubifen in Thailand) help to focus attention? Do you ever grow out of it? My answers are yes, yes, and no.

Agreed, the real condition often goes undiagnosed. Other conditions often get mis-diagnosed as Hyperactivity or as Attention Deficit Disorder. Both such instances are common in the practice of medicine, especially when diagnosticians don't diagnose properly.

[Papa_Lazarou]

I think its all in the imagination and the pills are a placebo.

People just want an excuse for when they behave badly, lose their temper, throw a wobbly, or are bone idle.

"You can't blame me for trying to garrot you with a broomstick, I was having a bad day."

Why can't folk just accept responsibility instead of trying to blame actions on, inter alia, booze, psyche majadjustments or fictitious personality disorders.

Until we learn to accept responsibility for our actions and our shortcomings we cannot make progress as human beings.

Papa Laz.

[lopburi3]

Although ADD is diagnosed by symptoms it seems to be a provable conditions with brain chemistry affected by my limited reading. Chemical treatment does not seem to be accepted by all but seems to help many in short term/when used type periods. But the treatment is probably very suspect in this country with the war on drugs that is in progress. Not to mention that first thought is mental condition and that is not to be spoken of in most circles.

[bina]

peace,

ritilin among adults seems to help less; but not always;

there is the possibility of cognitive psychology/psychiatry not sure what its called in english (i know all this stuff in hebrew due to two out of three of my kids addh) which helps mold and change behavior patterns with and without the help of drug intervention

i find that the ritilin helps mly daughter 200% in school; she doesnt need outside of school and has no behavioral problems (like many girls with addh) and unlike boys with adhd

my son was only tested and id'd with adhd two years ago at the ripe old age of 14 which was a shame since he missed out on lots of stuff in school because of this and caused him to develop a low self image (they both are missing the hyperactive element but the attention part is very obvious in both of them , they also have mild to major learning disabilities, mly youngest is in special ed in a regular school, my son gets special class time and tutoring )... the ritilin made him dizzy and he refused to try accorda or other types... they both are above average intelligence, both are very social types and active in extracurricular activities and both are allergic and asthmatic (connection maybe? or bad genes?) ; my daughter's self image improved with therapy and thru dance --she is amazing at dance and voice

however, trying to explain to my thai boyfriend all this stuff (a remote korat village guy) was impossible; i sat with him on the net and still couldnt find stuff for him to read that would explain all this

also, i suspect that my boyfriend, of above average intelligence, creative, ambitious and a 'doer' has learning disabilities that caused him to be seen as an 'idiot' and be beaten by father and teachers for his 6 years of school.... i find that he can see a diagram once, and build somehting, he manages to think creatively in new situations, etc... but he insists that he is stupid as he could never learn reading/maths etc...

as in israel 15 20 years ago, learning disabilties 'didnt exist'; u were just, stupid or stubborn or ignorant or whatever.... my ex (the genetic cause of the dyslexia etc apparently) unfortunately also suffered this stigma and as a result, went to work in agriculture rather then complete his studies; at age 35 he went to test and found that he had various cognitive things etc... it gave a name to the problem but w/o therapy etc, he cant change who he is now...

thailand will catch up eventually, and then like in israel and europe and america, it will be 'in' to have adhd etc to get extra time on tests, oral testing etc... however, proper schooling methods can make or break a child with learning disorders of any sort; they can make or break any child but those with problems need that much more decent teachers/teaching methods/and recognition... i doubt that thailand will invest yet, since from what i saw and mostly what i read here, the teachng level is bad, and obviously the less money u have, the more u get screwed in every way...

my oldest daughter (also dyslexic but artistic and creative, and a leader) will probably be an officer in the IDF this coming year; non of my three blame any bad behvior on their learning disorders; they are responsible (the youngest cant tell time at age 13 but is excellent at her kibbutz job with the babies in the baby house, etc, she developed her own method for knowing when she has to do what and with whom)etc though my son did try to blame us, the school, the adhd etc on why he was 'acting out'... being a teenage is difficult at the best of times, but with professional help and guidance, we got past that too....

its never too late, u can modify your behavioral patterns if u understand them, but it is difficult when people around u 'help' u stick to your own original behaviors and this goes for anything from alcoholism to anorexia to picking your nose........

[Papa_Lazarou]

"it will be 'in' to have adhd etc to get extra time on tests"

I don't think this would be fair. If you're hyperactive you should get less time if anything.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, bina. At first, I simply wasn't diagnosed. I was bright, got good grades, no behavior problems, etc., even if I was obviously fidgety as a child, overly active. At age 17, it kicked in hard with sleepiness, and my grades slipped. Several times in university, I bounced between academic probation and the honour roll. At 21, my doctor-fellow worker discarded a diagnosis of "narcolepsy" because I didn't fall down when I was teaching class, just when I was a student. For fifty years now, however, I couldn't stay awake on a long drive, and had a wreck in the process. Can't stay awake in class without ritalin/amphetamine, or massive doses of cafeeine (even 1,000 mg, or one gram, of solid caffeine).

No, Papa, in many cases it is no excuse for playing the victim, no excuse for shirking responsiblity. It is often an insidious learning disorder, to not be able to focus in the classroom as a student. Even if it doesn't disrupt the classroom.

The older you get, the more embarrassing it is, until you simply get categorized as senile.

[Papa_Lazarou]

"Can't stay awake in class without ritalin/amphetamine, or massive doses of cafeeine (even 1,000 mg, or one gram, of solid caffeine)."

Yes, yes, I had exactly that in Berlitz. God they were useless, their English was lousy.

I thought I was going to expire of boredom by the sixth lesson.

[Charma]

For anyone wanting to know more about special educational needs and inclusion, there is an excellent publication that can be downloaded free from here:

http://www.protocol-education.com/_images/...es_brochure.pdf

Well worth a read for any parent or teacher and covers ADHD & ADD.

[Siwanan]

I am a mother of two boys who are adopted from Thailand.

My first son came home to me from orphanage when he was 11 months and I never would have thought that I can not handle a baby! Two of us (my husbamd and I)weren't enough to run after him!

He never waited anything; he had to get everything rightaway, he was aggressive against other children (dangerous, couldn't leave him alone with other kids at all!), he spoke all the time (after learning to speak), he took everything to his hands that he saw; and broke them, and he run and run and run..

Sorry, I can not even explain how hard it was with him..

We took him to neurologist when he was 3 years old, because we were sure there was something wrong with him. In Finland ad/hd belongs to neurologist department, not to psychiatrist department as here in Thailand (not that they know anything about ad/hd but still..).

Our doctor "ordered" him to kindergarten to a special group to learn social skills, he also mentioned that he has symptoms of ad/hd but he is so young that he can not give diagnosis yet.

When time went on, things with him got worse as he grew up.

Later he get diagnosis of ad/hd and his doctor took his case as an example of a typical ad/hd to his lessons that he gave to other doctors and students. That doctor was one of the leading ad/hd researchers in Finland.

Our son couldn't concentrate in playing or watching tv or drawing or anything that kids usually do.

He didn't get any friends. He was hyperactive from the minute he woke up till he fell in sleep.

After he started taking Concerta, his life changed totally. He can now do everything that "normal" children do, he is very smart at school and his selfconfidence is growing.

I we ask him that would he like to try without medication, he does not want to. He says he feels much better with it, he has get friends, he can concentrate in teaching at school and he feels that he does not have to fight..would I deny that from him?

I also want to say that even that we have had the most difficult time with him, we couldn't love him more. He is the most social, cheerful and lovely child.

[bina]

concerta for those that dont know is the long slow release ritilin for children who must have it more then 4 hour stretches (like just for math/reading/languages).....

neuropsychologists usually deal with this and then send u to cognitive etc etc doctors

[Siwanan]

That's right Bina, thank You!

Here in Thailand we have gone to doctor's appointment three times for new prescription for Concerta. We have gone to different psychiatrist (pediatrician) every time, trying to find someone who knows about ad/hd. The worst case was when the psychiatrist was surprised how is it possible that my child can not sit in his own place at class room for one hour, but wants to wonder around. And he was angry with my child when he played too fiercely at appointment (I didn't give medicine that day because I wanted doctor to see him without it).

I tried to explain that this is the reason why we are here!

The doctor told us we should punish him more.

Any of these three doctors didn't know about medication for ad/hd, we told them what we want and what kind of dose.

It doesn't feel very good..

If someone can recommend a doctor in Chiang Mai, I would be more than happy (we are moving from Pattaya to Chiang Mai).

[bina]

two important things if u r the one making the med decisions:

1. get a blood test for your kid every year (i think they check liver function, anemia etc)

2. try to do at least one 'vacation' from the ritilin every year (like on vacation from school, or use only the 4 hr one) supposedly this helps the child catch up on growth (ritilin has been thought to slow down growth among preadolescent children)

3. somewhere in forums here somebody gave me an address for someone that deals with learning disabilities and handicapped children (not always the same but apparently in thailand lumped into one group); i think actually that it might have been in chiang mai/rai... i think maybe a christian oriented group.... try searching using the word : learning disability and/or my name (bina) to see if u can find the thread....

we once asked about autism; and dyslexia etc....

good luck

also tons of good stuff in english for ad/hd from american sites; israel is also sometimes slow on the uptake for things so i do my own research....

good luck

bina

israel

[bina]

just searched myself and cant find; but my brain is good at filing info and i know we had a discussion about this somewhere, just cant find the keyword to search with....

but go to the autism thread because they mentioned some names of doctors etc that might be a good head start for u also, they might know someone with experience with other organic disorders (ad/hd is an organic disorder and not just a bad behaving kid)

[John K]

I am surprised that no mention of what is consumed is looked at. It seems that you are going under the assumption that the problem is internal and that the ingestion of some chemical is needed to compensate for this alleged defect.

One of the things that should be done is track behavior with what is consumed. If consuming something can make it stop, then consuming something can certainly cause it or make it worse.

Every person reacts differently to foods. For some people peanuts are lethal. I myself have a very visible reaction to eating fish and in particular shell fish. My skin get bright red blotches that last for about 36 hours. It seems to be getting worse as time goes on. So it is safe to assume that food reacts with the body in more ways than just providing sustenance.

With that thought in mind you can start to track behavior to food. The food list needs to be broken down to what is has. Sugars, protein, and so on. Typically people eat the same 10 to 12 things regularly, perhaps due to lack of time or culinary skills. If a pattern emerges then you need to look more closely at the foods in question.

That would be my first starting point at identifying and treating the cause and not the effect. One should stay away from the mentality that drugs are needed, this is certainly what drug companies want you to think. Why take drugs when all that may be required is minor changes in a diet.

[PeaceBlondie]

John K is right: sometimes it can be diet, including sugars, artificial colors and flavors, preservatives, additives, etc.

Siwanan: in Chiang Mai, I got my diagnosis and Rubifen from a neurologist; you may PM me for details.

[bina]

for all the parents that , like me, tried the zillion and one diets, give me a break.... we dont eat much junk food in my house, no artificial stuff for the most part... and the brain stays the same.....

my kids are not tv overdoers, they never got even store bought baby food as babies and our schools dont have cafeterias every child brings his own stuff ...

but... to buy goats milk instead of cow, or other specialty items, well, u have to be fairly wealthy for that and the stuff is expensive (getting easier to find and cheaper but still)...

sometimes.... mostly its hit or miss trial and error to find what works

Edited August 26, 2006 by bina

[John K]

Experimenting with diets is much like Russian roulette, Lets try this or that and see what happens. What I am saying is be scientific about it and do a study yourself. It may take a few months to get workable data, but it beats the pants off being drug dependant for the rest of your life to make it through the day. I would imagine setting up some sort of excel sheet to help tracking would not be too difficult. You need to consider everything that is ingested or absorbed through the skin.

If you don’t want to do the research yourself, see if there is a university student that is doing a paper and offer to participate in their research. They will be able to get it down to a fine science and you get a good diagnosis for free more or less.

[Mr Jones]

type "Barry Groves" in your search engine i thing his site is second-opinion.com

then read on

[bina]

so instead of using meds, u spend a majority of time worrying about food etc... developing neuroses....

i dont think that kids have to spend too much time worrying about if they have tetrazine yellow (or whatever it is) in their yogurt or not, it becomes an obsession; on the other hand, i for one always remind my child that the meds she takes are just that, medication, and not just pill popping and problems are solved...

i believe the middle way is best, no extremes, no excrutiatingly special diets, and not munching down on pills every day; medication is to be used when its needed, not when its not

john, ritilin is like glasses, u use when needed, not for the heck of it; it doesnt make anyone i know any more dependant than someone who reads the ingredients on every food item before they put it in their mouth

[John K]

All I am suggesting is you address the cause and not the effect. The ultimate choice is up to you how you deal with it. Best of luck with what ever method you choose.

Edited August 27, 2006 by John K

[PeaceBlondie]

John K, IF you can identify the cause, fine. I had one surgeon say, "I wouldn't know what causes this problem if I opened your skull and looked inside your brain." My latest neurologist says it's "idiopathic," meaning he has no idea what the cause is.

We do know, however, that Ritalin works for me. I had one bizarre expat tell me, upon my arrival in Thailand, "You're a freakin' speedfreak!!" He was temporarily insane at the time. The most Ritalin I've ever taken was 30 mg per day, for a long distance trip on which I quite likely would have crashed without it. Ritalin appears to be what my body can't create for itself. If I were a diabetic, I'd limit my sugar intake, and then resort to insulin, since the islets in the pancreas wouldn't work well enough.

If there is a cause, that can be found, you might find it. OTOH, I've had a massive infection since last year (probably July), and even after invasive surgery, we have no idea what it is, or how to cure it. Heck, if we just find the right antibiotic, the cure will be more successful than knowing the name of the cause.

[John K]

This is one of the things we don’t know yet but our brains do.

I am aware that not every person has the same cause. Some people it may be easy to identify, and others much more difficult. I am aware that hypnotic suggestions can change the behavior in people with this. All the suggestions do is change the neurochemical makeup the same as medication. Exactly how the brain knows what to do is unknown, but that simply deals with the symptoms.

I personally feel the cause is external for many. Only people with some clearly identifiable physical problem that shown up in scans would be different. If it only happens sometimes it may an undesirable situation or suggestion that sets it off.

It may not only be food, other examples may be if you work in a factory airborne irritants, a new carpet, paint, pressure treated wood, cosmetics, alcohol, a natural allergy, scented soap to name a few.

I prefer to avoid medication as it is way over used. If I had this problem I would use the medication for the short term while looking for the cause.

[Shariberries]

I think its all in the imagination and the pills are a placebo.

People just want an excuse for when they behave badly, lose their temper, throw a wobbly, or are bone idle.

"You can't blame me for trying to garrot you with a broomstick, I was having a bad day."

Why can't folk just accept responsibility instead of trying to blame actions on, inter alia, booze, psyche majadjustments or fictitious personality disorders.

Until we learn to accept responsibility for our actions and our shortcomings we cannot make progress as human beings.

Papa Laz.

That is totally incorrect, and I wish people would stop saying that. I have ADHD, and I don't want to behave badly, nor do I want to use ADHD as an excuse. (why would I want that?) If I could change without medications, I would. In fact, I went through I period of time where I thought I could do well without the medications. It didnt take long before things started following apart... failed classes, trouble doing homework, etc. I really did try, but I still lost things all the time, (In sevearl weeks, I lost my keys like 5 times). However, when I told my parents that I wanted to start paying my bills when in college (instead of them paying for it like before) and when I decided to take on more responsability....thats when it got really bad. Simple things like paying the bills on time, getting college work in on time, getting to class on time (or at all), ... not being hyper, being able to quietly focus in class (instead of either daydreaming or dominating the class to an extreme, so that sevearl of my teachers got upset)... all these things finally did me in. I probably only got through college because I rarely if ever had to study for anything! ADHD is real, and it is not something that an adult or child does intentionally. Believe me, more than anyone else, maybe even more than you, people with ADHD want to suceed, do well, be in control of their emotions, etc. At least, thats how I have always felt... except when things got so bad that I wanted to just give up trying. Having ADHD is like having to input 300% effort while the rest of the world only sees you putting in 40% effort! It isn't an excuse at all and you'd never know someone has ADHD if they are being properly treated! Maybe some kids do think it can be used as an excuse, but I dont. Whenever I could avoid academic accomadations (that are offered for kids with learning disablilites in the U.S.) I did. My entire life, I have always wanted to be "normal". ADHD is real, and to say its not isn't helpful.

[Shariberries]

All I am suggesting is you address the cause and not the effect. The ultimate choice is up to you how you deal with it. Best of luck with what ever method you choose.

This can best be done by taking medication, especially if its severe ADHD. (in less severe cases, it may be possible to get by without medication by eating less sugar, which can calm anyone with or without ADHD down.... or by working out a lot, which also acts the same way on non-ADHD people and would probably be enough to stop the problems for people with mild ADHD. In fact, its probably better to avoid medications if there are other ways to treat the symptoms. But if not, why attach the stigma to people who need ADHD meds?)

Perhaps in the future, we will find a way to genetically or biochemically altar the brain in a more permenant way? Perhaps this is what you are talking about?

It really has to do with the frontal lobes in the brain. Various studies, EEG scans, MRIS and PET scan research has shown that people with ADHD have smaller areas and less activity in the frontal lobe region, often accompied by other regions, such as the cingular gyrus, the temporal lobes, and etc. The frontal lobes are the parts of the brain that controls out impulses, our emotions, and certain types of attention as well as short term memory. In the really well known case of phinus gage, back in 1800's in the U.S., the part that the frontal lobes play in our life was shown quite dramatically as well. THe poor man had had an accident while working on building the railroads. A metal rod shaped thing (I dont know what they call it, its something used in the contruciton of railroad tracks) was blown up threw his head, destroying most of his frontal lobe areas. It went up through and under the eye sockets, and out ontop of the head above the other eye. While before the accident, he was a very dependable, responsible, respectable man, in control of his emotions, able to plan and function well, able to supervise his railroad track crew... after the accident, he had symtpoms that are pretty much the same as ADHD. (but since it was due to brain injury, it isn't called ADHD). He lived for 8 years, but in that time, he couldn't hold a job, his previously happy marriage fell apart and his wife divorced him, he had common outbursts or tantrums, he swore all the time because he was incapable of controlling his impulses, and he had many many other life and social problems, (probably worse than the most severe case of ADHD because most of his frontal lobes were destroyed, while people with ADHD have frontal lobes, but they just dont work well)

Indivudals with ADHD show higher theta wave activity at the C4 site as well. THe reason why PET, SPECT, EEG and MRI scans are not used to diagnosis ADHD is this: Everyones brain is a little different from someone elses in that, our frontal lobes, cingulate gyrus and etc are not all in the same exact place as each others. That, and the expenses of using such equipment (and probably also that it is a pscyhiatric and not a medical condition) are the reasons why such brain scans are not used. If a child who may or may not have ADHD is scanned using this technology, there is no normal version of this child without ADHD to compare him or her to. In larger studies, where numerous people are involved and numerous brains are scanned, this is not a problem because it is known as to who has ADHD and who doesn't. Also, the greater number of people in the study helps to eliminate any statistical anomolies. It's easy to see that, with 50 kids who have ADHD, they all show a different type of brain scan (on average) when compared to kids without ADHD. But if you are looking at just one indivudal, you have nothing to compare the brain scans to. There is no normal brain, there are only average or typical brains. If our brains worked like computers (or like certain parts of our bodies) it would be easier because then we would know what it is supposed to look like. But, the brain is so complex and it differs from person to person, so the only way to get an understanding of it is to use statistics and compare groups of people to each other.

So anyway, ADHD is real and as a disorder, it has been determined to exist using reliable medical technology. Unfortuntatly, it isn't reliable in diagnoising it.

Hopefully everyone has learned far more about this than they ever wanted to know.

[John K]

I understand there are differing degrees. If you take the written test the score more or less tells you how bad it is. Many fall between what is considered sever and not having it.

What I have done is identify what tasks are associated with the symptoms.

Example homework, Lets say you never had a problem until you had this really killer assignment that left you with glazed eyes and a headache down to your toes. That becomes a negative suggestion that doing homework will give you a headache and fog your brain. So every time you get a homework assignment you subconscious tries to turn you away as a protective measure to avoid the negative experience. This is similar to getting sick at a restaurant. It will be a long time before you eat there again even if you consciously know the chances are small you will get sick. You will avoid that restaurant like the plague and if you do go you will more than likely order something different.

What is done with homework is the negative suggestion is removed and replaced with a positive one. When that happens the desire to do the homework is increased and the level of interest goes up. This should reduce or eliminate the symptoms for that task. It is repeated with each task. Then suggestions are reinforced with self hypnosis and a CD. This effectively does what the medication does with no negative side effects.

The cause in this example was a negative experience. Over time the negative experience will be a distant memory and replaced with a desire to learn more.

Edited September 4, 2006 by John K

[OutOfThisWorld]

Two of us who are on the Gay Forum mentioned that we have been diagnosed by more than one expert each, as H-ADD adults. It's a controversial subject (which I couldn't find another thread about, on this forum).

Is there such a condition, among adults or children? Does Ritalin (called Rubifen in Thailand) help to focus attention? Do you ever grow out of it? My answers are yes, yes, and no.

Agreed, the real condition often goes undiagnosed. Other conditions often get mis-diagnosed as Hyperactivity or as Attention Deficit Disorder. Both such instances are common in the practice of medicine, especially when diagnosticians don't diagnose properly.

Hi PeaceBlondie....

Sorry, I'm a bit late to this thread, but feel I have something to contribute that hasn't been already said, yet has a massive impact on it. ADHD, or ADD/Hyperkinesis as it used to be known can be due to many different reasons.....and normally is a combination of several. Problems in the family, psychological and emotional situations and food allergies to name a few. However, quite often underlying all of this is an imbalance in the Cranial Bones.

OK, I know initially this may sound weird or far-fetched or even not a good enough underlying reason for ADHD. But hear me out. Ever had a headache? Ever had a migraine? Neck pain or stiffness? How well could you concentrate with that pain? How friendly were you? Could you sleep? And if you did, was it a good one? Did you always feel on edge?

The Cranial Bones protect the brain....and to put simply there are 8 cranial bones.....one at the front high (Frontal), Two at the front middle (Sphenoid and Ethmoid), one at the back (Occiput), two on top (Parietals) and two at the sides (Temporals). They protect the brain.

The brain itself is surrounded by fluid.....Cerebral Spinal Fluid that both protects, nourishes and removes waste from the brain. A bit like blood really, except more specific for the brain. New fluid is pumped into the brain area for 3-4 secs every 6-8secs, whilst old fluid is leaving the brain continuously.......this results in a pressure increase as the new fluid comes into the brain for 3-4 secs and a pressure decrease for 3-4 secs as the fluid continues to flow out. Confused? Don't worry....the important thing to know is that the Cranial Bones have to move to accommodated this increase in pressure.....Yes, that's right they move. Something the British and American Medical Profession has only just acknowledge, whilst surprisingly enough the Mediterrean and Isreali Medical Profession has always known.

Anyhow, what happens if the Cranial Bones cannot move and cannot accomodate these changes. Headaches? You Bet! Migraines? You Bet! Tension within the brain? Definitely! Increase in Toxic fluid within the brain and decrease in fresh fluid? Absolutely! Ever wanted to live in a pig stye? No me neither, but it's amazing how many of our brains do!!

So what can cause these tensions? Physical accidents including whiplash, difficult birth or anything resulting in a major or even minor knock to the head. Difficult birth includes anything from the Doctor helping the baby by giving a slight pull on the head to forceps or caesarean delivery. Emotions can create tensions both from directly in the Cranium and indirectly via the organs. Who hasn't experienced that sick feeling accompanying some emotions, or the tightening of the stomach. And via these abdominal tensions, through the fascial system, nerve system or cardiovascular system the brain has to be effected.

CranioSacral Therapy was born and developed in the world of ADHD and autism. What they found was that ADHD was usually accompanied by what is called a Cranial Base Jamming where the bottom of the skull wedges into the top of the neck. This restricts the movement of the Cranial Bones and also the blood flow from the brain, and therefore the Cerebral Spinal Fluid flow. Generally Dyslexia included a Cranial Base Jamming and a Right ear bone jamming. Dyspraxia, included a Cranial base and a further jamming of either ear bones or both. Dyscalcula was a Cranial Base jamming and a left ear bone jamming. It must be stressed that i've really oversimplified this, and in reality every persons tensions and jammings are unique, hence why the symptoms assciated with ADHD, Dyslexia, Dispraxia, etc are interconnected and interlinking.

My partner and I are both Cranial therapists and have seen alot of amazing results with ADHD, etc using the therapy.

For further information I have posted an interview with Dr John Upledger on the next post. He did the initial research into CranioSacral work with ADHD, Autism, Dyslexia and Dyspraxia.

Secondly, you can find further information on www.upledger.com.

Enjoy

OutOfThisWorld

[OutOfThisWorld]

This is the interview I promised......hope it helps......if you have any further questions then please feel free to ask.....

OutOfThisWorld....

Cranial-Sacral Therapy

A Safe and Effective Healing Approach

for the Hyperkinetic Child

an Interview with Dr. John Upledger

by Diane M. Cooper

Dr. John Upledger is the medical director and president of the Upledger Institute in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. Among his many accomplishments, he is credited for developing the innovative healing modality of CranialSacral Therapy and working with children in areas such as ADD/ADHD (or hyperkinesis), autism, and infantile disorders such as birth trauma, cerebral palsy, and spina bifida.

Diane: Dr. Upledger, have you noticed a trend in children coming to you who are exhibiting symptoms of ADD or ADHD?

Dr. Upledger: To start at the beginning . . . we used to call ADD hyperactivity or hyperkinesis. Then it became attention deficit disorder, and now it has become ADHD. I started working with hyperactivity before I ever went to Michigan State University, when I was running a Florida drug treatment program for free clinics in Clearwater/St. Petersburg. Through this work, I got the strong feeling that any kind of drug that modifies your brain activity can be used as a substitute for confronting reality.

At that particular time, Ritalin use was just getting started. There were rumors that claimed that the use of Ritalin led to heroin addiction. I didn't believe that, but what I came to believe from watching a lot of addicts and getting their deep histories, is that if they started out with mind-altering drugs early on, they would probably continue to use them if they were seeking escape from unpleasant realities. I went to Michigan State with this information in my knowledge bank. There, we began researching the possibility that cranial bones could move.

The first research project I got into was to see if cranial-sacral therapy would help hyperkinetic children. We found out that we could help them, and they didn't have to be on Ritalin. This was at the same time that the Feingold Diet was extremely popular. The diet eliminated flour, sugar, and food dyes.[1]

We noticed that after we corrected hyperkinetic kids cranially, they could tolerate those foods. They didn't have to be on the diet anymore, and they would still behave well. When we got the releases were looking for, more often than not a child we'd previously had to restrain would fall asleep on the therapy table. Sometimes we would have to make the correction three or four times before it held, but I don't think we ever had to correct more than five times.

My belief, then and now, is that although there are other causes for hyperactive behavior or attention deficit disorder, the cranial-sacral system dysfunction is one cause. When we review the child, find the problem in the cranial system that is typical of that type of behavior, and correct it, we find a 90 percent improvement in behavior. Other causes we came across were problems in the family, psychological, and emotional situations, and a few food allergies that could be corrected with cranial work.

This was actually my first research project at Michigan State. Children were brought in from the school systems in the Lansing area, we worked with these kids in the clinic, and we watched them get better. It was very dramatic and still is. Our treatment approach for these kids is still the same.

What we find with these children is that the occipital bone, the occiput, is jammed forward on the neck. The joint surfaces, or condylar surfaces, on the first cervical vertebrae form a V. What happens is, the skull becomes jammed forward and the muscle tightens down to maintain it so it won't continue to move further forward. However, as a result of this tightening, the skull also can't move backward. As we release this musculature and these tightened ligaments, the skull is able to move backward and the child's behavior changes.

Here's what I think is the theoretical explanation. When you jam the occiput forward on the top of the first cervical vertebra, the muscles tighten down to keep the vertebra from being seriously damaged. There are two openings, or foramen, in the base of the skull, called the jugular foramina. These provide an exit for the jugular veins and three important cranial nerves. Now when the occiput is jammed forward just a little, a millimeter or a millimeter and a half, the muscles tighten down and compromise the size of the foramen. When the foramen are compromised or narrowed even a little bit, this creates a low-grade back-pressure of blood into the head. So the blood inside the skull has a hard time getting out through the jugular foramen. It doesn't have free flow, there is a little bit of damming there. So when we release that, the child recovers.

What I was willing to say, at that point in my research, was that ADD, or hyperkinetic behavior or hyperkinesis, can sometimes be caused by a slight increase in venous back-pressure, with the blood coming out of the head creating a constant compression inside the head, inside the skull. That back-pressure also broadcasts into the cerebral spinal fluid because the fluid is reabsorbed into the blood inside the skull. The back- pressure slows down that reabsorption a little bit, and you get an accumulation of fluid that's not exactly stagnant but is not moving as well as it should. Cerebral spinal fluid provides nutrients to the brain and concurrently takes away waste products, so you get a small accumulation of waste metabolic byproduct and not quite enough nutrition and oxygen to the brain. And this can cause a hyperactive brain. The brain has a hard time paying attention to one thing and starts looking all over the place. It's almost like a mild anxiety state.

Diane: Because you could say the brain is trying to survive and is looking for nutrients?

Dr. Upledger: I did obstetrics for a fair amount of time, and I think this often originates during the delivery process, the obstetrical delivery. In the normal delivery pattern, the head comes out with the eyes looking down and passes underneath the pubic bone of the mother. Now picture this: Mother is lying on the delivery table and at the point when the head is about half-delivered (before that if we're using forceps), the doctor or the delivery person very often will take the face and the head and bring them out. When they do this, there is a natural tendency to pull up maybe thirty degrees slanting toward the ceiling. So as the back of the head passes underneath the pubic bone, it's pulled so that it backbends a great deal. If you sit and bend your head way back on the top of your neck, you get an exaggeration of this. That causes the occiput to slip forward a little bit on the top of the neck. The skull goes as far as the muscles will allow it, and then the survival instinct begins, and it cramps, and clamps down all the musculature.

Sometimes when this happens during birth, the musculature knows enough to let go when the delivery is over. But sometimes it just stays that way. I have had horrible arguments with obstetricians about this. If the nurse in the delivery room or in the nursery knew about this and had the skill to correct it in the nursery room, I don't think ADD would exist in the proportions that are showing up. I mean that.

I think you can see what I'm talking about; I hope you can. Having delivered enough babies myself, I know how excited a doctor can get. Maybe you have a little problem, or maybe the top of the skull looks a little blue to you and you want to really hurry, so what do you do? You pull that head out, and it can either be by hand or with forceps, but you pull kind of hard. And when you do that, you create strain on the back of the skull where it fits on top of the neck, and that moves forward. If you consider that Mother is lying on her back and the baby's eyes are looking down, when you pull, you angle the head upward. That's it. It jams and stays there. It's like when you break your leg and the muscles splint to protect the fracture site. Well, when you've gotten your neck in a situation where it could kill you if it goes another quarter inch, the muscles will splint to save your life. But splinted muscles don't always know how to relax. They don't know that the critical situation is over. So they may stay that way for a long time.

We've had adults who complain of being unable to focus for any period of time. They have to work like the devil to read a whole page without having their mind shoot off somewhere. You find the place on them, correct it, and the next day they can read just fine.

Diane: Wow, that makes perfect sense.

Dr. Upledger: Thank you, I've been trying to sell this since 1976.

Diane: Really! Well, you're selling it to somebody who doesn't have academia behind them, so I don't have an argument.

Dr. Upledger: I don't get an argument back from them either. It's just, ''Oh, come on. That's ridiculous.'' But never real reasons. I really and truly believe that we can significantly reduce the incidents of ADD if every baby who was born just had that area of their skull checked. If it is tight, it can be released in three minutes flat.

Diane: So there is such a thing as hyperactive children, or ADD, as it is now called?

Dr. Upledger: Yes. When I got to Michigan State, I was going to do a controlled study, and the term ''hyperkinetic child'' came forward. I went so far as to talk to the guy who coined the definition for the State of Michigan Board of Education. We use the word hyperkinetic in our work.

Diane: Let's go back and talk about cranial-sacral therapy. I'd like to understand a little more about how it works, and how the release of that tension creates different behaviors.

Dr. Upledger: The cranial-sacral system is a physiological system that we defined rather clearly while I was doing research at Michigan State. At that time I put together a therapeutic approach that would fit the cranial-sacral system, which in essence is a hydraulic system. The cerebral spinal fluid is pumped into the system periodically. The system pumps in for about three seconds, then rests for three seconds. The exact timing varies from person to person, but three second intervals is average. So you're getting an increased volume of cerebral spinal fluid for three seconds, and then a decrease -- the resorption back into the blood is continual. So every six seconds you get a cycle and a flushing activity, so that the cerebral spinal fluid is continually flushing between all the brain cells, all the spinal cord cells, and so on.

Diane: So like the intestine, it both nourishes and cleanses the body?

Dr. Upledger: Yes, is a two-way system. It delivers nutrients and carries away waste products. But the cranial-sacral system also does something else, something they've just discovered in the last couple of years and it has to do with what's called ''chelation therapy.''

Chelation involves molecules that circulate in the cerebral spinal fluid and ''chelate out'' toxic mineral deposits. So increasing the cerebral spinal fluid movement improves chelation. So cranial-sacral therapy will undoubtedly prove very effective as a preventive in various brain-degenerative diseases that we see as we get older.[2]

Diane: So could you then say that since the spinal fluid is pooling in the brain, this is what causes the toxicity?

Dr. Upledger: That's correct. There can be a chronic state of subclinical toxicity, yes.

Diane: Would you go so far as to say that, because of this toxicity, we may be seeing behaviors in kids that may lead to extreme violence?

Dr. Upledger: Yes, this state could contribute to violent behavior, but I've got another whole process going on regarding violence that I think is much more powerful. It's a program that we call ''Compassionate Touch.'' We're teaching little kids, kindergartners and first graders, how to help each other feel better by using their hands. We teach the little children how to pass energy through another child's skinned knee and take the pain out of it. I know that sounds weird, but it's very successful. We've had a couple of public schools where we are trying this program, and we got into our first public school last year.

How does this work? Well, first of all, I think every human being is born with compassion and a certain ability to help another human or animal heal. Everybody has a little healing ability. You can see the compassion -- this is well-documented and accepted psychologically -- in very young children. For example, if a newborn baby or a baby who is a couple of months old is in the room with someone who is in extreme pain, the baby will start to cry. Babies feel the other person's pain. It's like our pets always know when we don't feel well. It's an instinctive ability. Now here's what we're after: Our society takes away this ability! Society can't take away the instinct, but it suppresses this ability that all of us are born with, so that we can't express our natural healing instinct, their natural compassionate instinct.

Diane: They take it away by . . . ?

Dr. Upledger: By making it meaningless or even ''bad.'' We are told that we must go to a doctor if we have something wrong with us. It is assumed that we cannot fix ourselves. Way back, I knew a psychic lady who would be in her 90s now if she is still alive. But way back in the early twentieth century, when she was a little girl, there was a flu-epidemic. And she got a nursing hat, went out and helped neighbors feel better. She got spanked very hard for that.

Diane: You don't touch.

Dr. Upledger: You don't touch. But look at it this way: If we're born with an instinct and we're not allowed to express it, what does that create? That creates frustration. Frustration turns to anger, and anger turns to violence. I got a letter from a mother at a school up in Wisconsin -- I won't use the name -- that said, ''My little girl came home from kindergarten after you taught her how to do compassionate touch. I was lying on the bed with a migraine headache, and she said, 'Mommy, your head hurts?' I said yes. She said, 'Can I put my hands on your head?' I said yes. Within three to five minutes my headache was totally gone.''

We get a lot of reports like that. The teachers report to us that on the playground, the kids are helping each other when they get hurt. Not it's entered the classroom. If one kid is having a little trouble reading, another kid might come over to help him with a word or two. So, you see, it generalizes. What I'm trying to do is re-empower these kids. I figure if we re-empower them in grade school, I don't care how much stuff they read in the newspapers, they'll know what they can do, and they'll do it, and they'll feel good about themselves. If they feel good about themselves, they're probably not going to go get an Uzi and blow somebody's head off.

Diane: In our day, when our fathers didn't want us to grow up to be a schoolteacher or an artist, I feel we were more inclined to do what our parents wanted and that it didn't cause too much psychological damage. Why do you think kids are turning to violence now?

Dr. Upledger: It's not just family situations. Partly, it's the television. You have a headache? Take some pills. TV and our whole culture tells us that things inside the body are fixed by external sources. If a baby is born with a desire to help other people -- with compassion and with the ability also -- and he is brainwashed into thinking he can't do it. . . But you can't brainwash someone who has already learned from experienced. That's my whole point.

I've had a hard time getting in the public schools because we're teaching kids to touch each other . . .

Diane: . . . which is taboo. They're actually trying to teach everybody not to touch each other.

Dr. Upledger: That is exactly right. But it's natural for us to touch each other. They're trying to make everything robotic and inhumane. As that continues, I'm sure violence will increase.

Diane: So if people can't get themselves to a cranial-sacral therapist, what kind of direction would you give to a parent?

Dr. Upledger: Well first of all, there is hardly anyplace it isn't available around the world. It's even available in Russia now. We have teachers in Australia, New Zealand, almost every country in western Europe and a little bit in eastern Europe. We've educated nearly sixty thousand beginning students now, and over half of them have done intermediate work. So I don't know that there's a great shortage. That's number one.

[sabaijai]

For adults there's a new med around for EDS (excessive daytime sleepiness) therapy, modafinil (aka Provigil)

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks for all the replies. I hadn't kept up with this thread lately.

I suspect that ADHD, narcolepsy, EDS, etc., are various ways to label many different conditions. I'm only an 'expert' in the things that make me fall asleep or lose attention, and the things that make me alert.

I suspect that for many undiagnosed students, this group of medical problems causes them to do poorly in school. Many adult patients seem to do well on IQ tests, and have tried very hard to get advanced education, but as one poster pointed out, they may work double-hard and get half the results, or worse. That's me. Sit-down classes and worship services will put me asleep in ten minutes, unless I'm in charge.

Normal brains have attention controls like a rheostat or light dimmer switch. My brain only has the knife-blade standard light switch: completely turned off, or turned on. But that's not schizoid or bipolar. It's a medical condition, more than a psychiatric one.

[Swelters]

No, Papa, in many cases it is no excuse for playing the victim, no excuse for shirking responsiblity. It is often an insidious learning disorder, to not be able to focus in the classroom as a student. Even if it doesn't disrupt the classroom.

The older you get, the more embarrassing it is, until you simply get categorized as senile.

You can look at these "diseases", which used to be a matter of "character", as fabrications of modern bureacratic/capitalist society, which loves to medicalize things. If you leave a bright kid alone with the maid, stick them in front of a TV or computer, and expect them to conform to some educational standard setting and performance, then there's a pretty good chance they will "have" ADD and you will be feeding them drugs and wanting them to have "extra time" to conform with that holy standard. My own experience with my "excitable" kids is that getting them into stories when they are really young and early exposure to Montessori style schooling gives them a lot of confidence and a fundamental idea of the point of everything, so when they get thrown out out the standard school later in life you can thank your lucky stars. Then they end up doing something much more interesting and everyone wonders how they got to be so creative and self directed!

Edited September 9, 2006 by Swelters