Neighbor in hospital; Insurance will not pay- advise?

[arjunadawn]

My neighbor is a nice young Ukrainian man and his girlfriend. His english is minimal, her's is zero. A digital nomad. He had insurance but was riding a motorbike 2 nights ago and wrecked, breaking his femur and some maxillofacial injuries. No brain injuries or other. CT unremarkable. Comminuted femur fracture- yikes! Basically, messed up but could be worse. He is in Koh Samui Hospital, Samui.

The girlfriend, two other Ukrainian, and a Thai neighbor gathered at my house today and showed me xrays and CT data and some projected bill. They were not asking me for money but what to do. The insurance will not pay because he did not have the correct additional endorsement for his driving license (warning for me). The bill to stabilize him for transport home was 175,000. I explained I thought that was a reasonable amount, in the US it would have easily been 10x. They say that he requires a doctor to transport him to Ukraine but they could not find nor pay for a doctor, let alone the bill at the hospital. I advised them to try to find a Ukrainian envoy, a NGO, or something with experience in this as there are many russians/etc on Samui; but tell the hospital they cannot pay so they can choose treatment strategy. I told them I think they must package him to at least a minimal acceptable level of stabilization before release. So far, they say they cannot even get him into the OR for 6 more days. I wont get into the medical treatments as I am aware of what he needs or what the options are surgically, but how does he navigate this issue? They will medically treat him to at least the humanitarian level of an indigent, won't they?

Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts I can suggest? Thank you

[smokie36]

Get him to Nathon hospital....much cheaper.

[LivinLOS]

Probably too late.. And most certainly not legal or ethical..

But I knew someone who had a bike accident.. No one else involved or injured.. And assisted him after the small hours phone call and initial hospital.. His was the same, no bike license and hence no riders insurance..

A police report was made saying he was the pillion.. The police didnt ask.. Insurance had to pay..

[LivinLOS]

"They will medically treat him to at least the humanitarian level of an indigent, won't they?"

Thats not a given.. They usually dump these deadbeat cases on a Thai government hospital.. And from there his options and chances of decent treatment and good outcomes drastically reduce.

Edited February 10, 2015 by LivinLOS

[shirtless]

i feel sorry for this guy , you will find most travel ins wont cover you for motor bikes , covermoore ins Australia basically cover you for nothing but they have cheap premiums.

[daveAustin]

I would also seek to get him in a cheaper Samui hospital for now. Ukraine isn't that great a concept either if he lives anywhere near the east.

[draftvader]

Moved to health forum

[Lukecan]

Notify the Russian embassy, good chance for them to run some decent PR

[Rajhulmaheesh]

Did telling the gf her cost would be much higher if all happened in usa make her feel better? Your $10k est. was not realistic-much higher.

[rhodie]

Did telling the gf her cost would be much higher if all happened in usa make her feel better? Your $10k est. was not realistic-much higher.

Raj, 10x = 10 times not 10k.

[Gecko123]

Have Thai lawyer or possibly (cheap option) a knowledgable insurance underwriter or claims person review insurance policy and advise scope of coverage.

Sounds like best course of action is to stabilize your friend in Thailand before repatriating him to Ukraine.

May not be realistic to expect Thai insurance company to pay cost of having a doctor accompany policyholder on repatriation trip. Even if there was no exclusion for not having the proper endorsement to operate a motorcycle, chances are the medical limits on the policy would be so low that this issue may well be moot.

For example, I just checked my insurance policy which I believe carries a relatively high limit of coverage by Thai standards. The insurance company is only agreeing to pay a maximum of 50,000 baht for hospital care if the driver is injured and a maximum of 200,000 if I die in an accident. As you can see, the limits of coverage on Thai policies are severely limited by Western standards.

[arjunadawn]

Did telling the gf her cost would be much higher if all happened in usa make her feel better? Your $10k est. was not realistic-much higher.

Raj, 10x = 10 times not 10k.

Indeed, its not. One could hardly get out of the ER for less than $7000. It would easily cost over $50k.Thank you, rhodie

In response to your asinine question, no, it did not make her feel better.

[arjunadawn]

Have Thai lawyer or possibly (cheap option) a knowledgable insurance underwriter or claims person review insurance policy and advise scope of coverage.

Sounds like best course of action is to stabilize your friend in Thailand before repatriating him to Ukraine.

May not be realistic to expect Thai insurance company to pay cost of having a doctor accompany policyholder on repatriation trip. Even if there was no exclusion for not having the proper endorsement to operate a motorcycle, chances are the medical limits on the policy would be so low that this issue may well be moot.

For example, I just checked my insurance policy which I believe carries a relatively high limit of coverage by Thai standards. The insurance company is only agreeing to pay a maximum of 50,000 baht for hospital care if the driver is injured and a maximum of 200,000 if I die in an accident. As you can see, the limits of coverage on Thai policies are severely limited by Western standards.

Thank you. I will try to explain this tomorrow through a 3rd party Ukrainian/english speaker who will join us. I just feel bad for both of them.

[questionsreplies]

I can rescue the girl ♥

[arjunadawn]

I can rescue the girl ♥

I doubt anyone who would write such a thing could actually close the deal without money.

[konying]

Most insurances will try to knock back the first claim, especially when person lodging the claim can not speak the language.

First thing i would do is find out who is the insurance company

Second, either call myself(ie yourself), or get a lawyer or best ask broker to contact and lodge the claim.

Depending on which country insurance company is regulated by, if all fails, can lodge a complaint with Ombudsman.

This is almost always result is some part of the claim being paid, unless some serious fraud took place.

Edited February 10, 2015 by konying

[loppylugs1]

Not far off Malaysia,cheaper there for treatment. If hes fit to fly,hes fit to fly with or without a doctor,try Air India they will take the dead and dying in their stride,pay a doctor for a fitness to fly letter. Flying business class would be better,as economy they might well bump him

[arjunadawn]

Not far off Malaysia,cheaper there for treatment. If hes fit to fly,hes fit to fly with or without a doctor,try Air India they will take the dead and dying in their stride,pay a doctor for a fitness to fly letter. Flying business class would be better,as economy they might well bump him

Thank you. Not able to fly. But thanks.

[fey]

i'm assuming there is great existing medical coverage in ukraine?

go to their family in ukraine for the money. that's where the respondibility lay.

if there is no family, try putting up a fundraiser online. there are many sites that list for donations for emergencies. could also help sell assrts if yhey have any. therwise, divy up the bill. i don't see any other options.

someone to watch over him like a lawyer would be ideal. try hiring a lawyer to fight the insuracr company and deal with the hospital if you cant take a good bite out of the bill.

Edited February 10, 2015 by fey

[arjunadawn]

i'm assuming there is great existing medical coverage in ukraine?

go to their family in ukraine for the money. that's where the respondibility lay.

if there is no family, try putting up a fundraiser online. there are many sites that list for donations for emergencies. could also help sell assrts if yhey have any. therwise, divy up the bill. i don't see any other options.

someone to watch over him like a lawyer would be ideal. try hiring a lawyer to fight the insuracr company and deal with the hospital if you cant take a good bite out of the bill.

Yes, thank you and the others for good advice.

[TooPoopedToPop]

Notify the Russian embassy, good chance for them to run some decent PR

That is worth a try... it might just work.

[colinneil]

Notify the Russian embassy!! is that some kind of joke?

The man is Ukranion not Russian, you think russia would help him? no way.

It is a serious reminder to people normal travel insurance will not cover using motorbikes.

[Trembly]

www.gofundme.com

Example : http://www.gofundme.com/l0dt9o

News story : http://www.theweek.co.uk/people/62355/alan-barnes-fund-for-disabled-pensioner-approaches-300k

Edited February 10, 2015 by Trembly

[Sheryl]

I'm afraid I have nothing to add to the advice already given. Koh Samui Hospital is a government hospital, so he is already in the least expensive facility (and the type most likely to keep treating him even without payment).

Commercial med-evac services are extremely expensive, would be cheaper to have a Ukranian nurse doctor fly here and travel back with him. Although from the injuries described I am not clear why he would need an escort.

[arjunadawn]

I'm afraid I have nothing to add to the advice already given. Koh Samui Hospital is a government hospital, so he is already in the least expensive facility (and the type most likely to keep treating him even without payment).

Commercial med-evac services are extremely expensive, would be cheaper to have a Ukranian nurse doctor fly here and travel back with him. Although from the injuries described I am not clear why he would need an escort.

I was hoping you'd jump in; thank you. Yes, I just came from the hospital and you and others are correct. It is not the best place to be medically, for sure. But I suppose they do the best they can. He will likely now be processed for multiple surgeries within a week. I suspect many are driving bikes that technically invalidate their insurance. I learned a valuable lesson this week. Thank you all.

[maswov]

Notify the Russian embassy, good chance for them to run some decent PR

Do't think the Russian embassy would do much good. Those guys aren't getting along these days.

[hawker9000]

Notify the Russian embassy, good chance for them to run some decent PR

Do't think the Russian embassy would do much good. Those guys aren't getting along these days.

I'm not clear on whether it's the Ukrainian Embassy, Consulate or Chargé d'affaires, but the contact info in Bangkok is:

Address All Seasons Place, CRC Tower, 33rd Floor

87 Wireless Road, Lumpini

Patumwan, Bangkok 10330

Thailand Phone local: (02) 685.3216

international: +66.2.685.3216

Fax local: (02) 685.3217

international: +66.2.685.3217

Email [email protected]

Web site http://www.mfa.gov.ua/thailand/

Edited February 11, 2015 by hawker9000

[Balance]

You used the word comminuted; can the leg be saved outside of high tech heroic efforts? Would a commercial airline take him? I would answer those two questions and then move him to a government teaching hospital attached to a medical school. The Embassy should be involved sooner than later. His family should be notified and the expectation set that some money will have to be sent.

[Nemesis7]

Raj, I understand you are doing your best in assisting the couple in every possible way, Good to see people like you trying to do something good.

There is an Ukrainian embassy in BKK, please do notify or ask the Gf to speak to them and ask for support.

as a diplomat its part of their duty to look after their citizens welfare here and provide support.

I just hope things works out and they get out of the trouble with out much hassle

.

[Lone Ranger]

I agree move to Nathon Government hospital -much cheaper & good reputation several of my Farang friends have used it & spoke highly of it.