Greek debt talks with eurozone end without breakthrough

[webfact]

Greek debt talks with eurozone end without breakthrough
LORNE COOK, Associated Press
PAN PYLAS, Associated Press

BRUSSELS (AP) — Debt talks between Greece and its creditors in the 19-country eurozone broke down Thursday without agreement or even a plan of action before next week's follow-up meeting.

Following an emergency meeting of the eurogroup in Brussels, the two sides failed to even issue a statement early Thursday, a sign that a compromise deal over Greece's debts is a long way off.

Greece's new radical-left Syriza government, elected last month, is seeking changes to the country's financial bailout which it blames in large part for the country's economic problems — the economy has shrunk around 25 percent over the past few years and poverty levels have swelled.

The finance ministers will meet again Monday and Greece's finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, laid out the hope that progress could be made then.

"We had a very constructive and extensive discussion of all the facets of the Greek crisis and the way in which eurogroup can facilitate the transition to a new phase in the history of the Greek social economy so we overcome the debt deflationary crisis, the humanitarian crisis and so on," Varoufakis said after the meeting.

Varoufakis said many "different, interesting opinions" were made during the hours-long talks.

"We are proceeding to next meeting, hoping that at the end of that one that there will be a conclusion to the deliberations in a manner that is optimal from both the perspective of Greece and our European partners," he said.

Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the head of the eurogroup of finance ministers, appeared less optimistic when giving his assessment of the talks. Detailed proposals weren't even discussed, he said.

Dijsselbloem said the "ambition was to agree steps but unfortunately we have not been able to do that."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-12

[soumanioco]

Let's talk debt.

Since 2007 debt has increased by $57 trillion outpacing world GDP growth. The ratio of debt to GDP has increased in all advanced economies.

Based on debt percentage to GDP amounted by the debt of government, non financial corporations, households and banks, here are the "winners".

The number one indebted country on the planet is Holland with 687% debt to GDP.

Second comes Ireland with 680%, then Denmark 538% and Japan on fourth spot with 517%.

All major European economies are well into debt with Britain at 435%, Spain 402%, France 374%, Italy 335%.

Greece is near the middle of the list between the U.S. (269%) and Germany (258%).

It's obvious that modern capitalism is living on borrowed money. And time.

[Briggsy]

Lets talk debt.

Many of the figures quoted above are misleading because total debt is meaningless as many entities have both assets and liabilities.

Anyway back to Greece. It seems both sides have predictably continued with their game of bluff or chicken or whatever you want to call it. 28 Feb is a big day because this is when the current bailout agreement ends.

I will even tell you what will happen. "Student loan"-type loans.

Many nations including Thailand and the UK give out student loans. The debts remain on the govt's books as assets and the graduates do not need to repay the debts as their salaries are below the minimum threshold at which repayments automatically start. Both sides are happy.

This is what the next agreement will look like. Greece's repayments will be linked to Greece's growth. Since there will be no growth and since Greece's statistics are decidedly dodgy, there will be repayments at a significantly lower level than now. Both sides can claim victory and Greece can stay in the EU, which is what it deeply cares about.

Failing that, back to the drachma, but still in the EU. But this is unlikely for now.

[wabothai]

You accept loans, you pay back in normal fashion whether you like it or not.

And that counts for you too, Greece.

Moreover your corruption has cost me 1000's of Euros.

You are lucky not all Europeans are coming after you and occupy your country.

Now you Costas.

[Asiantravel]

Lets talk debt.

Many of the figures quoted above are misleading because total debt is meaningless as many entities have both assets and liabilities.

Anyway back to Greece. It seems both sides have predictably continued with their game of bluff or chicken or whatever you want to call it. 28 Feb is a big day because this is when the current bailout agreement ends.

I will even tell you what will happen. "Student loan"-type loans.

Many nations including Thailand and the UK give out student loans. The debts remain on the govt's books as assets and the graduates do not need to repay the debts as their salaries are below the minimum threshold at which repayments automatically start. Both sides are happy.

This is what the next agreement will look like. Greece's repayments will be linked to Greece's growth. Since there will be no growth and since Greece's statistics are decidedly dodgy, there will be repayments at a significantly lower level than now. Both sides can claim victory and Greece can stay in the EU, which is what it deeply cares about.

Failing that, back to the drachma, but still in the EU. But this is unlikely for now.

" Many of the figures quoted above are misleading because total debt is meaningless as many entities have both assets and liabilities."

If you add up all the unfunded pension liabilities that would probably well exceed the value of any so-called assets

[rickirs]

Malta and Italy better brace for Greek boatloads of economic refugees.

[maidee]

they should made to give up huge parts of land to the EU, than they can drop all the illegal african / other migrants there

[icare999]

i really hope Greece breaks free from euro nonsense and becomes again a proper free nation. Better poorer than slaves to germany. Ok so they leave euro and then cash compete so 50% plus (ridiculous) unemployment under 25 ceases, 25% + unemployment gets better.

Ask yourself would you rather die slowly in chains to Germany than live free and with decency but poorer as your own master.

Non brainer for those who can see.

But sadly a lot will fear fear fear instead of being free and happy but poorer.

Sad isn't it. Like Jews in holocost they were going to their slaughter and now maybe just maybe they will fight back. And I'm an arch right winger Tory but would fight along side greek communists as lesser evil to EEC masters.