Bali duo to be moved for execution

[neverdie]

Z42.

You say I lack moral fibre, yet I'm not the one moving illicit drugs about the place and in fact you suggestion is a little laughable as I had more than my share of time in a position in a western society where I was recognised and decorated as a person of high moral standing.

You are the one here accusing people of hyperbol and bs. Not me and not Chooka.

FYI Mr Chooka and I have in the order of 5-6 decades worth of experience in dealing with these issues on the front line. We were the individuals that stood between the community, people like yourself and this dark evil trade.

Now I understand you think you know more and you think Chooka and I know nothing, but our professional experience dictates otherwise. By all means have an "opinion' but when you want to be truthful with yourself you will recognise what we tell you, well, you can take it to the bank.

The other point you raised about the new indo president is wrong, the Indonesians have been exercising their right to execute for a very long time. Nothing just started.

Have a good night.

[NickJ]

They will execute six this round. One is a guy from Ghana. Who was caught with 50g.of heroin. He has spent 10 years in prison. It was only last week his name was brought up by Amnesty Int. His govt has not even appealed his death sentance.

Seems to me that its going overboard with him. Cant find any info about his case really.That seems also to be a personal amount. Im really not sure about his case.

[z42]

Z42.

You say I lack moral fibre, yet I'm not the one moving illicit drugs about the place and in fact you suggestion is a little laughable as I had more than my share of time in a position in a western society where I was recognised and decorated as a person of high moral standing.

You are the one here accusing people of hyperbol and bs. Not me and not Chooka.

FYI Mr Chooka and I have in the order of 5-6 decades worth of experience in dealing with these issues on the front line. We were the individuals that stood between the community, people like yourself and this dark evil trade.

Now I understand you think you know more and you think Chooka and I know nothing, but our professional experience dictates otherwise. By all means have an "opinion' but when you want to be truthful with yourself you will recognise what we tell you, well, you can take it to the bank.

The other point you raised about the new indo president is wrong, the Indonesians have been exercising their right to execute for a very long time. Nothing just started.

Have a good night.

You do lack moral fibre, you condone the killing of non violent people who've made mistakes over a decade ago but who have changed their character, reformed into productive people and who are now actively engaged in helping others.

Your collective 5-6 decades of dealing with these issues (whatever that is supposed to mean) obviously taught you very little about the intricate differences between addiction, casual use, recreational use or merely experimentation did it. You might have had a high level of standing in your community, well done. But as science, discovery and capability to deal with issues like this, the world needs progressive views and attitudes to create a longer term, more sustainable means by which to control the situation,

After a near 45 year global war on drugs that cost trillions of dollars and i'd dare say millions of lives globally. and has still not even adequately addressed the root causes of the problems outlined at its inception. It's dreadfully wrong that still in 2015 the courts are dishing out draconian 50 year sentences or shooting reformed prisoners out of political want (not need). And what's worse than that is that somebody who claims to be knowledgeable about the issues & who claims to be of great moral standing actually condones a tired, outdated rhetoric which is at odds with modern day thinking.

Also it's fitting that you still seem unwilling to accept that all drugs legal or illegal can and do destroy lives, why do you avoid this issue? Why are people pushing a particular type of poison that potentially destroys families worthy of a bullet when another person pushing a particular type of poison that potentially destroys families stays not only out of the gun sights but gets rich doing it?

So if people were out denouncing all drugs regardless of legal classification then i'd understand their point of view much more clearly. But when they denounce a drug they've only ever experienced 3rd hand but then completely overlook how a different drug that's equally terrible, and in some cases deem it as ok just because they happen to use it themselves; then frankly it smacks of hypocrisy & double standards. Nothing more, nothing less

Your moral compass is skewed. Your decades long experience has taught you nothing. Take some time to go and do some educational refreshment. Good day to you too, spend it wisely

Edited February 13, 2015 by z42

[nottocus]

for them it's more likely to be painful and not that quick.

Let's hope so.

[F4UCorsair]

Evidence was that they had all made multiple trips, yet they hadn't bothered reforming at any time prior to being sentenced to death

It's a terrible penalty, but their earlier imports caused untold suffering, possibly some deaths

The whole episode is ugly from all sides.

[F4UCorsair]

for them it's more likely to be painful and not that quick.

Let's hope so.

The only painful part will be the waiting after three days' notice is given. With your heart blown out by a few military rounds, death will be instantaneous....no heart = no blood pressure = brain dead

Edited February 13, 2015 by F4UCorsair

[Nowisee]

Drug smugglers are not criminals. They are entrepreneurs taking huge risks.
Drug smugglers are not killing people. They are supplying drug users with their product of choice.

Drug smugglers are not a threat to society. Society full of some the senseless posters above is the threat.

Who are the real killers?
The alcohol companies, the tobacco companies, the gun companies, the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, the chemical companies, the human traffickers, many governments and many religions...and the list goes on.
BUT, mention the word "smuggler" and the gun toting republican christian cowboys come riding up, hoping they die a slow painful death... and they don't even see how backwards thinking it is.
THAT is the threat to society... and it was the threat when blacks were treated like criminals and had no basic human rights, when women could not vote, when gay people could not marry who they wanted, serve in the military or have basic human rights.

It was people like the gun toting republican cowboys that could not see logic and sensibility or compassion and understanding.

As I said, it takes education and time to build awareness.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Nowisee

[neverdie]

Z42.

You say I lack moral fibre, yet I'm not the one moving illicit drugs about the place and in fact you suggestion is a little laughable as I had more than my share of time in a position in a western society where I was recognised and decorated as a person of high moral standing.

You are the one here accusing people of hyperbol and bs. Not me and not Chooka.

FYI Mr Chooka and I have in the order of 5-6 decades worth of experience in dealing with these issues on the front line. We were the individuals that stood between the community, people like yourself and this dark evil trade.

Now I understand you think you know more and you think Chooka and I know nothing, but our professional experience dictates otherwise. By all means have an "opinion' but when you want to be truthful with yourself you will recognise what we tell you, well, you can take it to the bank.

The other point you raised about the new indo president is wrong, the Indonesians have been exercising their right to execute for a very long time. Nothing just started.

Have a good night.

Also it's fitting that you still seem unwilling to accept that all drugs legal or illegal can and do destroy lives, why do you avoid this issue?

Good day to you too, spend it wisely

1. That's wrong, I have said all along that legal drugs destroy lives, I despise alcohol and other 'legal' drugs, I've seen more mess from that crap than you and many more combined. I've stated my position on this thousands (at least hundreds 55555) of times on TVF.

Having said that it doesn't change anything I've said about smack. There is legal and there is Illegal. At the present time the heroin import is illegal, drinking alcohol or moving it (dependant to location) is legal.

There's more people dieting and suffering at the hands of alcohol than most others combined. It's legal.

The smack isn't. I didn't make the laws and the cuddly mob haven't managed to have them changed. My position is unchanged. If they make it legal, I will shake my head, ban the lot I say. Of course that won't happen.

Anyway, wonder passed the airport entrance in Indo with smack strapped to ur body and your a damn fool, the gamble is your life, that's their rules.

Goodnight Irene to these imbeciles and any that follow. They knew this, they damnn well knew.

I will save my sympathy for someone that deserves it.

2. I did spend it wisely, only popping past TVF when I was waiting for a feed.

Have a good night.

[neverdie]

for them it's more likely to be painful and not that quick.

Let's hope so.

The only painful part will be the waiting after three days' notice is given. With your heart blown out by a few military rounds, death will be instantaneous....no heart = no blood pressure = brain dead

Apparently there's been cases before where people have bleed out for a couple of minutes as the rounds have missed the mark. I have watched someone bleed out before, far from

Pleasant.

But anyway, maybe they'll get lucky.

[stag4]

"Get Lucky" !

A single shot to the head with a pistol is what they will get if they are only wounded by the firing squad.

Barbaric beyond words

[MrWorldwide]

"Get Lucky" !

A single shot to the head with a pistol is what they will get if they are only wounded by the firing squad.

Barbaric beyond words

I'll take that over the US system. How long do you think it will take the firing squad to put these two out of their misery ? I'm guessing it wont be 25 minutes ...

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118833/2014-botched-executions-worst-year-lethal-injection-history

A week later, on January 16, Ohio executed Dennis McGuire using a new and untested two-drug combination of midazolam and hydromorphone—the same drug combination that Arizona would use to kill Wood. McGuire’s execution, at 25 minutes, was the longest in Ohio’s recent history—and witnesses said he gasped several times throughout.

In April, Oklahoma carried out what may have been the worst lethal injection in U.S. history: Executioners pushed an IV catheter straight through a vein in Clayton Lockett’s groin, so that the drugs filled his tissue and not his bloodstream. As Lockett writhed and grimaced, the executioners closed the curtains and tried to call off the execution—but it was too late, and he eventually died of a heart attack.

[MrWorldwide]

Yet another thread demonstrating the correlation between basic literacy and progressive views on drug prohibition.

The only exceptions appear to be a small fraction of those with an authoritarian bent, who are apparently at least able to express their perverse joy at the execution of these smugglers without misspelling every third word or using more than one consecutive punctuation character.

If the penalty for drinking alcohol in Saudi Arabia was 6 months in jail and I rolled up at the airport with a bottle of Jack, would you be so quick to defend me ? Perfect world, I'd be happy for you to stick anything and everything in your body, but life has taught me that some people just cant handle anything stronger than aspirin. The Indonesians need to stop talking about this and get it done - any backdown would leave the families of the people they already executed a week or two back wondering why there is one law for Australians and one for the rest of the world : not gonna happen. Without Chan and Sukumaran, i doubt the Australian media would have even bothered with this story:

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-nine-executions-meet-the-nine-others-on-indonesias-death-row/story-fnh81fz8-1227218463598

[MrWorldwide]

'Within the next week' seems to be the current line from the Indonesians. Based on the video, the route to the execution ground seems a lot further and more complex than I had previously thought. Difficult to imagine anyone not opting for the blindfold when the execution squad is only 5-10 metres away.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/doomed-bali-nine-duo-to-be-transferred-to-nusakambangan-island-this-week-ahead-of-their-executions/story-fnh81fz8-1227221756457

http://www.news.com.au/national/parents-of-bali-nine-member-andrew-chan-say-their-final-goodbye/story-fncynjr2-1227220652975

[NickJ]

Indonesia is a total toilet. Its what you get when you add up the worse of modern day third world countries that have vaccatiob appeal......If you think Thai cops are bad , go to Indo. If you think Mexican fedarales are bad go to Indo........Why in the hell would anyone in right mind subject themselves to this international field of total shi-? Total financial desperation or complete Neanderthalism. Or......a ring leader who is going to be offed this week and got busted due to international police co operation....... It is a crime to carry it out so late.......Death should be within weeks of conviction.......so I guess Im on the side of time spent.....rehab did seem to happen.....and the majority of there countrymen wishes should count......commute to life in this case and let tourism and illeagal immigration continue un impended.

[Prbkk]

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.

They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.

But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

I understand your opposition to the death penalty but I don't understand why you need to compare this back to alcohol and all it's dregery. Alcohol is an evil substance & the violence that comes out of it is often, often severe and ongoing.

However this is about heroin and you are wrong about people on it not becoming violent. I have seen people on the gear comitt some of the most violent crimes, everything from armed hold ups and shootings to murder and just about everything below. I've seen addicts do virtually anything to secure their next hit including selling their own families out and violent attacks on Police during arrests.

I've seen heaps of violent stuff on alcohol too, dontbworry about that but this is about heroin. The crime that goes on surrounding that substance would make your skin crawl. Don't be so neive, there's people out there dealing with the stuff and it's associated problems while you sleep. I use be one of them.

These two grotty men were part of the supply chain not a user caught up in its evilness. Their sentence is 10 years overdue, it's time to pay the piper and time to cop it sweet. They only have themselves to blame.

I'm antii alcohol but that has NOTHING to do with it.

Agree 100% neverdie and tired of these hug a criminal and stuff the victim supporters. They knew exactly what they were doing and the consequences. They made a life choice and we're prepared to run the gauntlet. There were plenty of warnings and they are in your face everywhere in Ball and they bared thier naked rear ends at these warnings and at Indonesian authority and society. They signed thier own death warrants.

No, their death warrants were signed by the hopeless and pathetic officials of the Australian Federal Police whose incompetence in this matter has been the subject of much comment by former (and anonymously current) members of the force. The protocol in matters such as this is that the officers will wait until return to Australia to act: they WILL NOT offer 'tip offs' to countries in which offenders might be the subject of a death sentence .

Where it went wrong in this case is not clear but probably some incompetent fool not understanding the long established protocol....much to the embarrassment of many decent members of the AFP but not, it seems, the posturing buffoon who headed the organisation at the time.

[Chicog]

a ring leader who is going to be offed this week and got busted due to international police co operation.......

And there was me thinking he got busted because he tried to smuggle a shedload of heroin in a country that quite publicly states that it punishes said actions with the death penalty.

At the very worst, it's cleaning out the shallow end of the gene pool.

[MrWorldwide]

Indonesia is a total toilet. Its what you get when you add up the worse of modern day third world countries that have vaccatiob appeal......If you think Thai cops are bad , go to Indo. If you think Mexican fedarales are bad go to Indo........Why in the hell would anyone in right mind subject themselves to this international field of total shi-? Total financial desperation or complete Neanderthalism. Or......a ring leader who is going to be offed this week and got busted due to international police co operation....... It is a crime to carry it out so late.......Death should be within weeks of conviction.......so I guess Im on the side of time spent.....rehab did seem to happen.....and the majority of there countrymen wishes should count......commute to life in this case and let tourism and illeagal immigration continue un impended.

Not sure where to start with that rant, but I've bolded the claims I'd like to address:

1. indonesia is the worst of modern day third world countries

Fine - its also the largest economy in Southeast Asia by several measures of GDP and one of the 10 biggest economies in the world. 250 million people, a very powerful military that is always a threat to the elected government and you want to mess with them ? If Indonesia is the worst, where does that leave the PI and VN ?

2. Death should be within weeks of conviction

No such thing as an appeals process in your justice system ? ISIL operates that way - most civilised countries dont.

3. rehab did seem to happen

How would that have happened if they'd been executed within weeks of their conviction ?

[daveAustin]

Disgusting conduct. These lads are reformed & they actually have a lot to give back to society be it in Indonesia or Australia, stuff to actually atone for their crime & continue to repay their debt. For any people to have spent almost 10 years in a hell hole prison & actually come out with their heads held high, only for them to be shot off literally. Makes me sick. Definitely would NEVER set foot in Indonesia now.

Drug war is a farce, causes so many more problems than the actual drugs themselves. So much sympathy for the 2 guys' families

What planet are you living on, they were trying to smuggle HEROIN, it bloody kills and destroys family. You have never seen the effects of this drug within your on family circles or you would not be saying this. They deserve everything they get and more. Shoot them and then 1 in the head to make sure!

Earth, funny that. I am well aware of what they were trying to smuggle, never said I condoned it. But incidentally the harm index and addiction potential is not much greater than alcohol and tobacco. But they're nice taxable drugs which never impact negatively on users and their families either. Only the 10s of thousands of DEATHS they directly cause each year in many countries. Seems very clear to me that you either don't know this or simply choose to ignore this for whatever reason.

Sorry, stopped reading after the tired alcohol and tobacco carry-on. Druggie types always go down that road. Your argument is weak. Irregardless of the apparent destruction they may cause and the obvious revenue they bring in, those things are legal, heroin ain't. These people knew the laws. They knew heroin was bad and that their actions was going to mess up myriad people's' lives. They were in it for themselves and whether you think it's more right that they've served their time and should go free is totally immaterial. There are better, innocent people that need saving in this world. Suggest channel your misdirected energies to help them.