Eric Loh Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Looking at the train route plan, it will end in Rayong with Pattaya as a stop. So it's not only catering for the tourists but also economic reasons. Rayong houses 11 big industrial parks including Amata and Rojana and fast expanding but lacks the infrastructures and housing needs for a good standard of living for the executives. I do thing that is factored into the planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canarysun Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 We already have trains from Bangkok to Hua Hin ( 43 baht ) & Bangkok to Pattaya ( 31 baht ) and all nicely and easily linked to the Airport. Why do we need " high speed trains " maybe it's me but i seem to be the only person left in this world that has never been in a rush to do anything! ( " cha cha " viewers.... ) F.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetT Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Great Plan, don't have to be a speed train. A luxury train is also welcome, because when they come in Hua Hin or Pattaya they are going to sit on terrass for a drink or meal. ...........Is 'terrass' meant to be 'terrace' or 'their arse'............... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetT Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) We already have trains from Bangkok to Hua Hin ( 43 baht ) & Bangkok to Pattaya ( 31 baht ) and all nicely and easily linked to the Airport. Why do we need " high speed trains " maybe it's me but i seem to be the only person left in this world that has never been in a rush to do anything! ( " cha cha " viewers.... ) F.J .........."nicely and easily linked to the Airport"????????????? If it wasnt for your last sentence I would have thought you being ironical. Edited February 13, 2015 by SunsetT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dublin Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 As for the U.S., the PM said it was still necessary for the Thai government to trade and invest with all countries despite the U.S.’ misunderstanding of Thailand’s internal affairs. Thailand and the U.S. needed to continue their trade relations as politics was politics Missunderstading of thialands internal affairs,,,,,Seriously!!!! I personally thought the yanks hit the nail on the head with there comments,,,..and Looks like the PM is doing a little back peddling here the thought of loosing US funding has just struck home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetT Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How about creating a high speed circuit by introducing a hovercraft between Hua Hin an Pattaya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomacht8 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Estimated construction costs for Bangkok – Pattaya: 100.000.000.000 Baht (100bn) before service, maintenance and operating costs. Estimated fare, let say 1.000 Baht per Person = 100.000.000 (100 Million) necessary Passengers, only to win back the cost of construction. Pattaya estimated visitors per year: around 7 Million. Lets say the train can attract 30% of all visitors for a single journey, is then 2 Millions 2.000.000 passengers / 360 days = 5.500 passengers a day. So the construction cost recovery period would then 50 years without interest, before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Travel alternatives and market conditions: - from the airport you can get a taxi for 2000 Baht to Pattaya, if 2 or more travelling together, the taxi is cheaper.Furthermore you do not have to go to the train station and have to wait for the departure of the train.The time advantage of the train can already be lost here. - Many bus and minivan companies have fare prices between 200-500 baht. There are already many pick-up / start points. Mo Chit, Sai Tai, Ekamai, Victory Monoment, Khao San, etc. Also here the journey to the departure station can be a deciding factor. - Many Pattaya visitors are weekend visitors and travel with there own cars,usually several people together in one car, it is cheaper and much more flexible. Just this simple observation makes it hard for me, to see here a return on investment. Edited February 13, 2015 by tomacht8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) They should just extend the Airport express train. It's fast enough and they are already part way there. They threw that thing up pretty fast from what I remember and now that they got the bugs worked out it seems to work pretty well. That would probably be the most economical lowest risk option. The vast majority of trips would be to/from the airport anyways. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiping Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Am not super enthusiastic about this - I've seen them replace the sleepers on existing track and it's done with primitive tools and brute force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How about creating a high speed circuit by introducing a hovercraft between Hua Hin an Pattaya? Now, there's a thought. Whatever happened to all those wonderful hovercraft serving the England to France run? Is it practical, could the Thais run this sort of operation. They run jet skis, perhaps hovercraft would be merely a step up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How about creating a high speed circuit by introducing a hovercraft between Hua Hin an Pattaya? They did have something at one time. Not sure if it was high speed. Don't think there was enough demand and I don't think that would have changed much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Estimated construction costs for Bangkok – Pattaya: 100.000.000.000 Baht (100bn) before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Estimated fare, let say 1.000 Baht per Person = 100.000.000 (100 Million) necessary Passengers, only to win back the cost of construction. Pattaya estimated visitors per year: around 7 Million. Lets say the train can attract 30% of all visitors for a single journey, is then 2 Millions 2.000.000 passengers / 360 days = 5.500 passengers a day. So the construction cost recovery period would then 50 yeas without interest, before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Travel alternatives and market conditions: - from the airport you can get a taxi for 2000 Baht to Pattaya, if 2 or more travelling together, the taxi is cheaper.Furthermore you do not have to go to the train station and have to wait for the departure of the train. The time advantage of the train can already be lost here. - Many bus and minivan companies have fare prices between 200-500 baht. There are already many pick-up / start points. Mo Chit, Sai Tai, Ekamai, Victory Monoment, Khao San, etc. Also here the journey to the departure station can be a deciding factor. - Many Pattaya visitors are weekend visitors and travel with there own cars,usually several people together in one car, it is cheaper and much more flexible. Just this simple observation makes it hard for me, to see here a return on investment. Where did you get those numbers from? You realize that with cost of labor these things are much cheaper to build in Thailand than in the first world right? People were going on and on about how the Airport link would be a failure because...numbers...just like they were going on and on about Skytrain. They continue to be wrong every time. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman34014 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The Guy has trains on the brain at the moment since taking his Mrs riding on the Chinese and Japanese High Speed systems and dreams of having such railways in Thailand. However; it is still dreams and will remain so for a good many years to come. What i wish they would spend money on is providing new,well equipped and properly staffed Hospitals in several parts of the country where people are still forced to travel up to 200 klicks to get decent treatment. Just ask anyone who lives in places like Mae Hon Son where their nearest 'proper' Hospital is. Just one area that needs attention on a Mountain of jobs that need doing instead of planning fancy railway systems that they don't have a clue how to run or maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Great Plan, don't have to be a speed train. A luxury train is also welcome, because when they come in Hua Hin or Pattaya they are going to sit on terrass for a drink or meal. ...........Is 'terrass' meant to be 'terrace' or 'their arse'............... ? Foreign rich tourists taking the Eastern & Oriental luxury train, I am sure would have no interest in seeing Pattaya or the eastern seaboard for that matter, however much lipstick you apply to that pig. Pattaya will always be thought of as sun, sand and sex and not necessarily in that order. The side trips that train takes to Kanchanaburi are because of the commercialization of the Bridge on the river Kwai story. Of course, with new construction, who knows what will happen with that train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomacht8 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Estimated construction costs for Bangkok – Pattaya: 100.000.000.000 Baht (100bn) before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Estimated fare, let say 1.000 Baht per Person = 100.000.000 (100 Million) necessary Passengers, only to win back the cost of construction. Pattaya estimated visitors per year: around 7 Million. Lets say the train can attract 30% of all visitors for a single journey, is then 2 Millions 2.000.000 passengers / 360 days = 5.500 passengers a day. So the construction cost recovery period would then 50 yeas without interest, before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Travel alternatives and market conditions: - from the airport you can get a taxi for 2000 Baht to Pattaya, if 2 or more travelling together, the taxi is cheaper.Furthermore you do not have to go to the train station and have to wait for the departure of the train. The time advantage of the train can already be lost here. - Many bus and minivan companies have fare prices between 200-500 baht. There are already many pick-up / start points. Mo Chit, Sai Tai, Ekamai, Victory Monoment, Khao San, etc. Also here the journey to the departure station can be a deciding factor. - Many Pattaya visitors are weekend visitors and travel with there own cars,usually several people together in one car, it is cheaper and much more flexible. Just this simple observation makes it hard for me, to see here a return on investment. Where did you get those numbers from? You realize that with cost of labor these things are much cheaper to build in Thailand than in the first world right? People were going on and on about how the Airport link would be a failure because...numbers...just like they were going on and on about Skytrain. They continue to be wrong every time. see Post 28 and http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Pattaya-sees-drop-in-2014-tourists-to-7m-30228975.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Speaking of broken bolts, I retired from the fastener industry a few years back. I have visited most of the major fastener manufacturers in Thailand, including the premier automotive supplier. Their grasp of proper heat treat procedures is tenuous at best. That must have been a riveting experience, perhaps even driving you nuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Why not shoot a line up to Mukdahan while you're at it.............make it a bit easier for the visa runners. Nong Khai is already in the planning stages, and it the train goes all the way to China (that is the master plan, no?), it will pass through Vientianne. Mukdahan is a bit out of the way. What can you do in Mukdahan that you cannot do in Vientianne? How is that possible? There is a mountain range in the way. It is called Laos. Easy on those common sense facts...you might cause a few headaches around here. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mot Dang Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Gotta get them forecast 20 million Chinese tourists somewhere. Oh boy, in 4 to 5 years time we will wonder if we are still in Thailand. Bring your Welly boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran2698 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How can you seriously put a train doing 300Kph on line 150km long to a holiday resort, The Chinese done it on Tianjin line 120ish ks , but that's from Beijing to an Tianjin which is the 4th biggest city in China,Population 14 million But Bangkok to Pattaya , couple of dozen piss heads and ladyboys. Never happen far too expensive There is also a container port near Pattaya and the largest manufaturing base in Bangkok. The idea has always been to make a container train connecting China through Nong Kai, down to Pattaya with a branch line to Bangkok. The idea has very little to do with Thailand and much more to do with China wanting to further exploit Yunnan. Much the same as the project on the Mekong at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPratt Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Estimated construction costs for Bangkok – Pattaya: 100.000.000.000 Baht (100bn) before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Estimated fare, let say 1.000 Baht per Person = 100.000.000 (100 Million) necessary Passengers, only to win back the cost of construction. Pattaya estimated visitors per year: around 7 Million. Lets say the train can attract 30% of all visitors for a single journey, is then 2 Millions 2.000.000 passengers / 360 days = 5.500 passengers a day. So the construction cost recovery period would then 50 yeas without interest, before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Travel alternatives and market conditions: - from the airport you can get a taxi for 2000 Baht to Pattaya, if 2 or more travelling together, the taxi is cheaper.Furthermore you do not have to go to the train station and have to wait for the departure of the train.The time advantage of the train can already be lost here. - Many bus and minivan companies have fare prices between 200-500 baht. There are already many pick-up / start points. Mo Chit, Sai Tai, Ekamai, Victory Monoment, Khao San, etc. Also here the journey to the departure station can be a deciding factor. - Many Pattaya visitors are weekend visitors and travel with there own cars,usually several people together in one car, it is cheaper and much more flexible. Just this simple observation makes it hard for me, to see here a return on investment. Where did you get those numbers from? You realize that with cost of labor these things are much cheaper to build in Thailand than in the first world right? People were going on and on about how the Airport link would be a failure because...numbers...just like they were going on and on about Skytrain. They continue to be wrong every time. The cheap labour is used to make more money for companies rather than save money on the overall project. It will be all sewn up well before it goes out to tender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) We already have trains from Bangkok to Hua Hin ( 43 baht ) & Bangkok to Pattaya ( 31 baht ) and all nicely and easily linked to the Airport. Why do we need " high speed trains " maybe it's me but i seem to be the only person left in this world that has never been in a rush to do anything! ( " cha cha " viewers.... ) F.J ....you call one snail class train a day at like 6am that takes at least twice as long as a vehicle an alternative to high speed rail? Been going to Pattaya for years and not once have I seen that train as a viable alternative to anything. Could probably get to Bkk faster and more conveniently on a scooter rental. Oh wait but it's cheap. That's all that counts I guess. Who cares about......well everything else basically. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran2698 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 They should just extend the Airport express train. It's fast enough and they are already part way there. They threw that thing up pretty fast from what I remember and now that they got the bugs worked out it seems to work pretty well. That would probably be the most economical lowest risk option. The vast majority of trips would be to/from the airport anyways. The problem with that little idea is that it doesn't actually solve the problem of how to get goods from the manufaturer to the port, all that deals with is a few tourists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 sort of on subject, remember watching a few years ago Jeremy Clarkson doing the test Scotland to London by car v by train.... was as cheap by car than by train !!! and that was with just one person so if more than one is in a car works out a lot cheaper by car....... If I can remember is was something like a Audi 8 diesel, so no cheap ECO car.... the 3 Top Gear guys have done a number of different test train v car in the UK so not 100% sure it was a Audi A8 but was a big Luxury car.... Expensive high speed trains in Thailand cannot see that many people using... you have to get to the station and then without transport the other end ? OK High speed to C.M area or/and to the south OK, guess many tourist will use.. On another subject have no idea, but all these crossings, bridges, buying land etc, would it be that much more to build a rail line off the ground ? would never have accidents with cars/trucks/cows/people....... here the BTS is off the ground, other Countries have trams on the ground + accidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldBattles Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 A good name for the train, Lady Boy Express. I noticed that Prayuth said that the USA did not understand Thailand. He did not say who did. Notice that in the last 3 months there has been no mention of the train from Chiang Kong to Map Ta Phut. Did they forget this idea. In order for the Laos to build a train track from their northern border to Vientiane it will take a 100 years. This may be a move for the Chinese to take over central and lower Laos. Don't make any bookings on these new trains yet. The next government might decide to scrap them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How can you seriously put a train doing 300Kph on line 150km long to a holiday resort, The Chinese done it on Tianjin line 120ish ks , but that's from Beijing to an Tianjin which is the 4th biggest city in China,Population 14 million But Bangkok to Pattaya , couple of dozen piss heads and ladyboys. Never happen far too expensive There is also a container port near Pattaya and the largest manufaturing base in Bangkok. The idea has always been to make a container train connecting China through Nong Kai, down to Pattaya with a branch line to Bangkok. The idea has very little to do with Thailand and much more to do with China wanting to further exploit Yunnan. Much the same as the project on the Mekong at the moment. Laem Chabang port and the Mapthaput/Rayong industrial area would be a target for an efficient and modernized freight system that would allow containerized freight to move from China to Thailand's eastern seaboard utilizing modern rolling stock and locomotives. HST has no place in that system.. If China wants a faster connection to Europe and the middle east, the ports in Myanmar would be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran2698 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 sort of on subject, remember watching a few years ago Jeremy Clarkson doing the test Scotland to London by car v by train.... was as cheap by car than by train !!! and that was with just one person so if more than one is in a car works out a lot cheaper by car....... If I can remember is was something like a Audi 8 diesel, so no cheap ECO car.... the 3 Top Gear guys have done a number of different test train v car in the UK so not 100% sure it was a Audi A8 but was a big Luxury car.... Expensive high speed trains in Thailand cannot see that many people using... you have to get to the station and then without transport the other end ? OK High speed to C.M area or/and to the south OK, guess many tourist will use.. On another subject have no idea, but all these crossings, bridges, buying land etc, would it be that much more to build a rail line off the ground ? would never have accidents with cars/trucks/cows/people....... here the BTS is off the ground, other Countries have trams on the ground + accidents They bought same day tickets, in the UK that means paying 5 times as much as if they had bought them 1 month in advance. Did it cost 5 times less to drive the car? No. Does the train operator still make a profit from early booked tickets? Yes. Were you correct in your assumption that last minute ticket prices reflect train running costs? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well I hope it is an elevated railway line and we can eliminate all those deadly level crossings...might ease traffic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keskeseksa Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Bravo, this is the most sensical way to start, because, along with Chiangmai Pattaya and Hua Hin will probably be the most profitable and useful destinations. If the trains are fast and reliable, most people will prefer them to the roads, which are more dangerous and not reliable for time. The Chinese trains on the BTS are just as good as the ones from Siemens and probably a fraction of the costs, and with this government there is less risk that a huge part of the budget will be diverted in the pockets of the politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupatria Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I expect this to turn out in a mess of corruption, incompetent construction work and a catastrophe in conduct and maintenance. No Thai bashing here. However, the things that are solid built and properly maintained are rare exceptions in LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Aleman Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Super idea ? Let us see : leave plane, secure transportation of you and luggage to train depot, get ticket, await maybe an hour for next Hi speed train, board and speed to Pattay in 30 minutes ?, unload, buy intercity transportation to final Pattaya stop + about 3hours ! Or....... take taxi outside air terminal and arrive at Pattaya hotel in 90 minutes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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