NoBrains Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 AnsaldoBreda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBrains Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 AnsaldoBreda in Italy has quiet some low priced ( 20 ) HST in stock from the previous Fyra Debacle in the Netherlands/Belgium, i'm not supprised we find them soon on the Thai HST train tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Do you think the military makes on money on this deal and the multitude of financial transactions occurring throughout the life time of the project Just asking. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUTHERNSTAR Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The viability studies and environmental studies have already been done before the command was given ? The low cost airways can't make it work on the BKK/HH route how will the hst work ? With the bus costing B 295 between Swampie and HH how can the hst compete ? Under PTP the BKK/HH hst ticket would have been +- B 800, this excludes your expense to get from the airport to the hst station. At the start the junta said they will spend B 3 tn, later on they added the Burma/Cambodia double track route and now the extra hst routes. The total are now +- B 5 tn. As most government projects double in cost during implementation we can expect the total cost to near B 10 tn. With the stagnant GDP this dept will push the debt/GDP ratio to +- 70% while the allowed maximum is 60%. At an interest rate of 1,5% we are looking at B 15 bn interest cost per year. More ill conceived plans, that will bankrupt the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffP Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> How many of you have actually travelled on a high-speed train? Anywhere? In Taiwan, where I worked for a while, the HST runs the length of the country from Taipei to Kaohsiung (about 320 Km) with a half-dozen stations in-between, about 50 ~ 60 Km apart. For the most part, the track is elevated, partly for earthquake-proofing, and also to free-up the farmland under it. A side benefit is that no cows, elephants, useless-drivers can get stuck on rail-crossings - there are none! I was on the construction of that from 2002 to 2005, at Tainan, Chayi and Taichung. Was a decent project , went with the Japanese system on plain track and German Rheda System though stations and crossovers. 25 Billion USD I believe, Irrc the whole system is on viaduct until you get into Taipei And you did a grand job, ExPratt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPratt Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> How many of you have actually travelled on a high-speed train? Anywhere? In Taiwan, where I worked for a while, the HST runs the length of the country from Taipei to Kaohsiung (about 320 Km) with a half-dozen stations in-between, about 50 ~ 60 Km apart. For the most part, the track is elevated, partly for earthquake-proofing, and also to free-up the farmland under it. A side benefit is that no cows, elephants, useless-drivers can get stuck on rail-crossings - there are none! I was on the construction of that from 2002 to 2005, at Tainan, Chayi and Taichung. Was a decent project , went with the Japanese system on plain track and German Rheda System though stations and crossovers. 25 Billion USD I believe, Irrc the whole system is on viaduct until you get into Taipei And you did a grand job, ExPratt. I did have a little bit of help. I actually enjoyed that project. Bit quiet in Chaiyi . 2 bars and one only sold cans , but you tend to have a laugh in those kind of places if there is a few of you there. I was running the installation of crossings and rheda track in those stations , we went about 10k each way. Plenty of money spent on that project no expense spared , I believe the Piling there go down 60 metres in places . Of all the projects Ive done since , I'd do THSRC again , quality project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loonodingle Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I found the best transportation from the airport to Pattya was the Penthouse hotel minivan. It's like a mini bedroom on wheels. You choose the 2 honeys you wish to meet you or they will pick random girls for you. Your out the airport and straight into party mode. Blacked out windows and a privacy screen ..... your getting my drift ?? it's not cheap but the 2 hour journey just flies by.... lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loonodingle Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 http://www.penthousehotel.com/taxi_pattaya_transportation_bangkok_cab_international_airport_limousine_suvarnabhumi_pickup_escort_thai_girls_car_penthouse_boutique_hotel.html forget trains. Scroll to the bottom of this page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefactoryoutlet Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Wow I love him <3 Wow I admire him <3 He is so powerful <3 He just decides, order, and things happen <3 Let;s see :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> There is also a container port near Pattaya and the largest manufaturing base in Bangkok. The idea has always been to make a container train connecting China through Nong Kai, down to Pattaya with a branch line to Bangkok. The idea has very little to do with Thailand and much more to do with China wanting to further exploit Yunnan. Much the same as the project on the Mekong at the moment. Laem Chabang port and the Mapthaput/Rayong industrial area would be a target for an efficient and modernized freight system that would allow containerized freight to move from China to Thailand's eastern seaboard utilizing modern rolling stock and locomotives. HST has no place in that system.. If China wants a faster connection to Europe and the middle east, the ports in Myanmar would be the answer. The section which goes from Yunnan to Myanmar is already under constuction. They also want to link to the port near Pattaya and on down to Singapore. Not sure why you think that linking to the Gulf of Thailand would be about connecting with Europe or the Middle East but I doubt that they are that daft. The truth is, from Yunnan, Bangkoks ports are closer than their own ports in China, and from the Gulf of Thailand they have access to markets in Indonesia, Malaysia and Australia. It would be the Myanmar ports that would be for Europe and the Middle East, at least until they complete the next stage of a high speed rail link with Istanbul. As for HST having no place linking sea ports with manufacturing, it would seem that China disagrees with you. They have long been planning a high speed container train which, starting in SE ASIA, they hope to eventually link Europe, Africa and the Americas, and completely do away with costly, slow and polluting container ships. They claim that they will be able to being stock from the manufacturer in China to the consumer in Europe in less than 2 weeks. Have the actually built this "High speed container train" Think it may be pie in the Sky , Freight trans and heavy haul Tracks are notoriously heavy Maintenance. The weight difference between a freight which can be half a KM long and a passenger train is massive "...a freight which can be half a KM long...." I think half a km is a short train, certainly by North American standards. We were running trains 2 miles long back in the late 1990's on C.N. Over heavy steel rail. Certainly unnecessary if ever freight gets a serious start here in Thailand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_trains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPratt Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Going by Malaysia and I think Thailand's standard length is 500 metre's , The track couldn't cope with anything bigger , be derailing every 20 minutes. If the quality of the Railway increases then so could will the Rolling stock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggo Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 High speed trains.....High speed Internet......what next LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 His intentions and thoughts are good. Thailand has to join the more technologically advanced countries. And it will be great for tourism and also for Thais. What I'm worried about and expressed my worries before when Yingluck initiated the high speed train introduction to Thailand, is the operation, handling and maintenance of these trains. I wish, I could trust the Thais more and have more confidence in them..........but again I could be wrong........as many good posters remind me constantly. My worthless opinion is try to upgrade the existing trains, maintain the trucks properly. and do something about rail crossing safety and then look to the high speed trains. So 'thoughts' are good huh? Well lets do the math shall we. Bangkok to Pattaya ~150Km High speed rail speed definition 250km/hr, therefore assuming no intermediate stops a journey time of 36 mins Standard gauge top speed definition 190km/hr, therefore assuming no intermediate stops journey time of 47 mins Cost of HSR vs Standard Gauge according to the Swedish study (de Rus et al., 2009) 2x. So, well thought out huh twice the cost for a maximum time saving of 11 mins. Maybe we need to 'think' before accepting all that is said is Gospel truth. Maybe in the Chinese model there is a justification, but in the real world not a jot of truth You misunderstand. For our resident Junta Fanboy, every word or thought is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Last time I took a train to Bangkok from Cha Am, we hit a cow which had strayed on to the unprotected line. Luckily, we were only travelling at a snail's pace, so the train was not badly damaged or derailed and we were able to continue our journey after the minced beef had been removed from the tracks. Now imagine what may have happened if we had been travelling at 200 kilometers an hour on one of the proposed high speed trains. . . You would have passed the spot before the cow? Just joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Estimated construction costs for Bangkok – Pattaya: 100.000.000.000 Baht (100bn) before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Estimated fare, let say 1.000 Baht per Person = 100.000.000 (100 Million) necessary Passengers, only to win back the cost of construction. Pattaya estimated visitors per year: around 7 Million. Lets say the train can attract 30% of all visitors for a single journey, is then 2 Millions 2.000.000 passengers / 360 days = 5.500 passengers a day. So the construction cost recovery period would then 50 yeas without interest, before servicing, maintenance and operating costs. Travel alternatives and market conditions: - from the airport you can get a taxi for 2000 Baht to Pattaya, if 2 or more travelling together, the taxi is cheaper.Furthermore you do not have to go to the train station and have to wait for the departure of the train. The time advantage of the train can already be lost here. - Many bus and minivan companies have fare prices between 200-500 baht. There are already many pick-up / start points. Mo Chit, Sai Tai, Ekamai, Victory Monoment, Khao San, etc. Also here the journey to the departure station can be a deciding factor. - Many Pattaya visitors are weekend visitors and travel with there own cars,usually several people together in one car, it is cheaper and much more flexible. Just this simple observation makes it hard for me, to see here a return on investment. Where did you get those numbers from? You realize that with cost of labor these things are much cheaper to build in Thailand than in the first world right? People were going on and on about how the Airport link would be a failure because...numbers...just like they were going on and on about Skytrain. They continue to be wrong every time. You mean the Airport link is a success? The express had not been running for a few months already. One can hardly call that a success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragickingdom Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 It seems that some Thai journalists are giving the Thai dictator real too much credit. Besides the fact that nothing will be constructed (The high speed railing became a medium speed link because the only country supporting the junta, China, had to be brought in against tremendous costs) the real story is here that the dictator ordered a feasibility study. Not more or less. It won't be feasible because no international investors would be willing to bet their money in any dictatorship. (Okay no dictatorship because people are asked for their opinion and are only jailed when they do not listen says the defence ministry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinBoy2 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) His intentions and thoughts are good. Thailand has to join the more technologically advanced countries. And it will be great for tourism and also for Thais. What I'm worried about and expressed my worries before when Yingluck initiated the high speed train introduction to Thailand, is the operation, handling and maintenance of these trains. I wish, I could trust the Thais more and have more confidence in them..........but again I could be wrong........as many good posters remind me constantly. My worthless opinion is try to upgrade the existing trains, maintain the trucks properly. and do something about rail crossing safety and then look to the high speed trains. You misunderstand. For our resident Junta Fanboy, every word or thought is good. Are we still allowed to use the word Junta? I thought it had been replaced by... 'Internationally Understood Organization for the Betterment and Happiness of Thailand Interim Pseudo Elected Administration' Now doesn't that sound better LOL IUOBHIPEA...quite catchy Edited February 13, 2015 by GinBoy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller45 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 His intentions and thoughts are good. Thailand has to join the more technologically advanced countries. And it will be great for tourism and also for Thais. What I'm worried about and expressed my worries before when Yingluck initiated the high speed train introduction to Thailand, is the operation, handling and maintenance of these trains. I wish, I could trust the Thais more and have more confidence in them..........but again I could be wrong........as many good posters remind me constantly. My worthless opinion is try to upgrade the existing trains, maintain the trucks properly. and do something about rail crossing safety and then look to the high speed trains. So 'thoughts' are good huh? Well lets do the math shall we. Bangkok to Pattaya ~150Km High speed rail speed definition 250km/hr, therefore assuming no intermediate stops a journey time of 36 mins Standard gauge top speed definition 190km/hr, therefore assuming no intermediate stops journey time of 47 mins Cost of HSR vs Standard Gauge according to the Swedish study (de Rus et al., 2009) 2x. So, well thought out huh twice the cost for a maximum time saving of 11 mins. Maybe we need to 'think' before accepting all that is said is Gospel truth. Maybe in the Chinese model there is a justification, but in the real world not a jot of truth Agree but there is the image and prestige issue to keep in mind. Farm this out to a foreign company and let them worry about rentability. That could also arguably mean that it will be reasonably safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wileycoyote Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Could be expensive & take some time,in current economic climate ,I would not hold my breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Why not shoot a line up to Mukdahan while you're at it.............make it a bit easier for the visa runners. Nong Khai is already in the planning stages, and it the train goes all the way to China (that is the master plan, no?), it will pass through Vientianne. Mukdahan is a bit out of the way. What can you do in Mukdahan that you cannot do in Vientianne? How is that possible? There is a mountain range in the way. It is called Laos. Very true, but the Chinese didn't bat an eyelid when they were punching the Canadian Pacific, the Western Pacific and other lines through the Rocky Mountains 140 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Watch out for the news next week. There will be an announcement saying work will soon be underway on the VHST. Then further down the page there will be a paragraph explaining it is a meeting for planning. And the old furphy "It will be completed in 2 years" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie61 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How can you seriously put a train doing 300Kph on line 150km long to a holiday resort, The Chinese done it on Tianjin line 120ish ks , but that's from Beijing to an Tianjin which is the 4th biggest city in China,Population 14 million But Bangkok to Pattaya , couple of dozen piss heads and ladyboys. Never happen far too expensive Financial viability has never stopped any megaproject in Thailand. Viz.. the Hopewell project, the train service Makkasan - Swampy, the expressway to Don Muang, the Bangna - Chonburi elevated expressway, the Government Complex at Chaeng Wattana, and many many others in almost every province. The only thing that EVER mattered is that the right pigs have their snout in the trough. Thainess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunuel Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 We need to clarify what they mean by "high speed train", anything over walking pace is high speed to many in Thailand. They cannot be talking about real high speed trains as they need regular quality maintenance to keep the system safe, otherwise we will be reading about some exciting train crashes. Malaysia's newish electric train system could serve as a model. While not truly "high speed", they are plenty quick at averaging 140 kph (which is a heck of lot faster than currently). Clean, quiet, convenient and comfortable, the shorter runs to Pattaya and Hua Hin would be ideal for them. It would alleviate a lot of the unnecessary taxis and traffic on the highways. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Train_Service Precisely. And what some nay sayers are missing is that a rail link would make Pattaya et al suburbs of Bangkok, and alleviate some of pressure on the city - a lot of people would leave Bangkok if they could! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZurf Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 They could start a "Monger Investment Lifestyle Fund" - <deleted> for short - whereby Pattaya residents could invest in the high speed rail line from the airport to Walking Street in 30 minutes. ...in reality it would probably be the most successful rail network in Thailand. Yes, hopefully the government can look realistically at this and acknowledge that the mongers are the most faithful and generous tourists in the world (and I understand that what you're doing is bashing Pattaya, which makes you as unique and interesting as a cockroach on TV) . Time for Pattaya to focus on what it does best and forget about family/group tourism (and I'm saying this as a long time Pattaya resident). I mean, at the end of the day, how much money does the average Chinese or Indian tourist spend per day compared to a dyed-in-the-wool monger?? However, I do believe as many posters that stated before me that a high-speed rail link will probably not be economical. They should instead focus on improving existing transport options, like more airport shuttle buses and non-rip off taxis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZurf Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I can see the attraction of a high speed train OUT of Pattaya. Judging by your handle it seems you are a Bangkok fan. Why don't you stick to that forum if you have nothing to contribute? I think Bangkok is an armpit and consequently never post in the Bangkok forum because it just doesn't interest me. But it does seem like Pattaya holds an endless fascination for you haters. Maybe it's a love and hate relationship; You would love to go there but hate the fact that your wives (and/or your wallets) won't allow it. Edited February 13, 2015 by MZurf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) To all the usual doomsayers. A simple reminder. You were all saying the EXACT same things about skytrain, the subway, and the Airport rail link. Too expensive, nobody will use it, they are too dumb to do it right, they won't maintain it and everyone will die and then they will sell it for scrap blah blah yada yada. Every time you were WRONG. EVERY TIME! YOU ARE ALL WRONG NOW. 100% guaranteed. That is if and when they actually get around to building it. That is the only thing that is still up in the air. I'm not saying there won't be major problems, no cost overruns, no corruption or political controversy, maintenance problems that will need to be addressed, maybe lack of ridership initially before people get used to it, some pricing adjustments, the occasional "only in Thailand" type screw up and whatever. There is with every big expensive project even in the first world sometimes. Oh well, All Thai Visa seems to be now a days is one giant whine fest untethered from logic and reason. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I can see the attraction of a high speed train OUT of Pattaya. Judging by your handle it seems you are a Bangkok fan. Why don't you stick to that forum if you have nothing to contribute? I think Bangkok is an armpit and consequently never post in the Bangkok forum because it just doesn't interest me. But it does seem like Pattaya holds an endless fascination for you haters. Maybe it's a love and hate relationship; You would love to go there but hate the fact that your wives (and/or your wallets) won't allow it. The Pattaya haters (who seem to spend a lot of time there) are curious sorts. I think what they really hate is their own situations. They won't be happy no matter where they are. Pattaya is just a convenient scapegoat. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) They could start a "Monger Investment Lifestyle Fund" - <deleted> for short - whereby Pattaya residents could invest in the high speed rail line from the airport to Walking Street in 30 minutes. ...in reality it would probably be the most successful rail network in Thailand. Yes, hopefully the government can look realistically at this and acknowledge that the mongers are the most faithful and generous tourists in the world (and I understand that what you're doing is bashing Pattaya, which makes you as unique and interesting as a cockroach on TV) . Time for Pattaya to focus on what it does best and forget about family/group tourism (and I'm saying this as a long time Pattaya resident). I mean, at the end of the day, how much money does the average Chinese or Indian tourist spend per day compared to a dyed-in-the-wool monger?? However, I do believe as many posters that stated before me that a high-speed rail link will probably not be economical. They should instead focus on improving existing transport options, like more airport shuttle buses and non-rip off taxis. Are they even looking at just extending the Airport rail link? If not then why? That seems like the best option all around if you ask me. The express train goes plenty fast, is already part way there, and most trips will probably be going to/from the airport anyways. They could probably even increase the speed between the Airport and Pattaya if they can make the tracks straight enough. No brand new system to have to work the bugs out of either. I know there are current issues with the Airport rail link but they will eventually get that sorted out. One less bug that would come up if they extended it. Reading up on the history it appears that they did plan to extend it out to Pattaya and Rayong at one time during the initial planning. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 So let it be written, so let it be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapd Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) We need to clarify what they mean by "high speed train", anything over walking pace is high speed to many in Thailand. They cannot be talking about real high speed trains as they need regular quality maintenance to keep the system safe, otherwise we will be reading about some exciting train crashes. Malaysia's newish electric train system could serve as a model. While not truly "high speed", they are plenty quick at averaging 140 kph (which is a heck of lot faster than currently). Clean, quiet, convenient and comfortable, the shorter runs to Pattaya and Hua Hin would be ideal for them. It would alleviate a lot of the unnecessary taxis and traffic on the highways. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Train_Service Precisely. And what some nay sayers are missing is that a rail link would make Pattaya et al suburbs of Bangkok, and alleviate some of pressure on the city - a lot of people would leave Bangkok if they could! If the line is going to Rayong that could mean a stop at or near U-Tapao which would that airport more viable as well. Edited February 13, 2015 by lapd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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