Australian traveller tells of his holiday nightmare in Thailand

[thaibeachlovers]

Many get this wrong. I have the problem self

for over 2 years ago I get a motorbike accident I think I was very lucky

I not had more problems end some scratches in the skin noting broken

But after visit to a hotel in Pattaya there only go 12 hour I was in the hotel for sleep.

In the night I want to get to toilet and soddenly I cut not stand on my foot and also lot of pain.

When I had to check out I ask for sleep in the lobby until my bus get going so I wait 2 - 3 hour

and have to have a man to drive me over to the bus station because I not cut stand on my leg.

When I come to Surin I had to take a duk duk to hospital and then I had to stay there because I

get fever. The doctor find out I get infection there come from inside the leg and get out at the

leg very painful. I get a drain operation.

And all this come from Thai government water when you take a shower. Thai government water is very danger to small scratches in the skin...

If you wouldn't drink it why would you put it on an open wound? Same same.

[BlackJack]

We carry a small bottle of Betadine every where we go, kills all bacteria and virus's even the dredged Thai one's

Only a stop gap precaution until proper cleaning and attention can be found.

Tetanus shots for all staff is our policy, booster if a large wound or a puncture wound.

Better safe than sorry.

kills MRSA, AIDS staph golden staph ?

must be good stuff

[atyclb]

by the looks of the wound and exposed tendon after thorough cleaning that would have gotten an intravenous antibiotic dose followed by pills for a week. you must assume contamination and untidy wound.

the stitching is not really bad for a wound like this. the larger spaces between stitches allows for "loose approximation" intentionally not sealing off the wound, thus not creating an incubator for bacteria.

[spectrumisgreen]

Bacteria is different in Thailand? If it's 'stronger' it might just be down to the misuse of antibiotics regularly dispensed for colds and flu which are viral, and for almost anything else.

Won't you 'Nay-Sayers' EVER stop trying to find a negative to turn onto Thai people themselves?!! You p*** me off you really do!! Not that all is rosy here and often far from it, but then our own countries are often even worse, in various aspects, whatever lies we tell ourselves (or we'd still be there, though actually I'm sure you doomsday-abroad merchants would be finding something, someone, closer to 'home' to whinge incessantly ad nauseam ad infinitum about!!)...

Hot countries are known to have far more virulent bacteria, hence why so many terrible diseases, pandemics etc seem to come from such hot places.. hot zones, etc.. yeah, yeah someone getting a serious infection in Thailand must be down to 'the misuse' of antibiotics here.. easy and clear, yeah? Not. Instead of dreaming your ridiculously idyllic dreams of 'my beautiful country and people back home', and 'the way things should be done' why not, for a minute, wake up and smell the (very natural) thorns we can all find ourselves stuck amongst!!!...

[SiSePuede419]

"Necrotizing Faciitis or 'Flesh Eating Bacteria"

I know someone who almost died from that in Suburban Detroit.

So yes, it can happen anywhere. Take care of those superficial flesh wounds, immediately, if not sooner.

555

Edited February 18, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[gigman]

Long time ago I cut my toe in the ocean water in Australian island . Cut was only minor but even after antibiotic it grows huge next day .

On third day I was on operation table.

Doctor said; this time of the year ocean is blooming with all kind of enzymes and bacteria ...that is why small cuts can become a big problem .

Anyway I would be very careful running in many places in Thailand ....specially streets.

[Roachiebkk]

I was attacked with a blunt object and unconscious in a BKK klong. Night in hospital 22 stitches. Checked myself out next day. Doc gave me antibiotics and told me to have it dressed and checked for infection. Private hosp checked every day 'No infection' they said 'Healing nicely' they said. Lol. At the end of the week went back to original doc who was shocked and said another 24 hours and infection would have been fatal. Three times they unstitched the wound and ..........wont go into it but two rare types of infection only found in BKK klongs. Ewwwww

[MRH1959]

With dogs wondering freely and the lack of concern [by some Thai and visitors] over wastage dumping, it would be common sense to treat any cut with anti bacteria medication and this would have been expected when the wound was cleaned. Was the cut area properly covered/bandaged after the stitching, or was it a matter of 'she'll be right'?

Accidents can happen to anyone and it comes down to how we prevent possible accidents, and what action we 'personally' take after an accident.

[spectrumisgreen]

It is sad that people have blind faith in Thai healthcare - some pay the price for this, but few realise the risk they are taking.

this person had no option but to follow the course he did - he might have acted quicker when infection set in - but then most people are unaware of what the early signs of infection can be.

Drawing comparisons with procedural delays in other systems is not a valid argument - after many years experience inside the Thai healthcare system and talking to many foreign workers in major hospitals I can tell you that here are SERIOUS flaws in the Thai system. ........ Training and accountability being the foremost.

Don't think that just because there in ONE doctor there who is "good" means the system is good too - the whole system depends on ALL those working there - it doesn't even matter if they have the "latest equipment' if they aren't operating in correctly it doesn't mean a thing.

Personal experience is not valid - many people leave hospitals thinking it was great because they were "cured" - yet they don't have any idea of whether or not they got the most appropriate treatment.... or simply just lucky.

Thai healthcare is a lottery - the guy in the OP is an example of this - an elementary blunder by a Thai Medical practitioner that in any other country would have resulted in some form of official action is here regarded as "just one of those things"

Ok, Doc!.. I and many others I've known have been 'lucky' quite a few times, here, then, yeah? And Personal experience is not valid ? Presumably as it doesn't match with your own viewpoint?... well, nothings perfect and many things in Thailand aren't but then where is? Healthcare-wise, people way too regularly apparently go through hell, even occasionally die seemingly needlessly, in EVERY health system I've heard of, meaning it seems that there will ALWAYS be flaws. But, I suppose it's only valid if we're knocking things here, yeah? Luckily, I (and many others) remain a little more open than this, actually going by those 'invalid personal experiences' - and of those around us - to make (what WE believe to be..) TOTALLY VALID evaluations of what we encounter...

[BobbyBoy]

I had a similar experience 15 years ago caused by a blister on my big toe caused by breaking in new sandals , and walking through the creek water outlet at Kata beach which was toxic . A day later my big toe swelled up , my thai girl friend applied various witch doctor remedies which all failed badly , at this stage my toe was weaping badly and skin was off half the big toe and puss etc. smelt like rotting flesh , and my foot had turn purple and swollen to size of football. This was 4 or 5 days after the infection started , I decided to rush to hospital for treatment as the pain associated with the infection was unbearable . I attended Phuket International hospital for treatment the doctors there took a look and said I had a very serious infection that could be life threatening ,if not treated immediately.

First remove dead tisue 25% of big toe, clean , pack wound with strong anti infection solution, inject area with pain killer , administer with injection anti biotic followed up with strong oral anti biotic every 3 hours . I was advised that if treatment did not work within 24 hours , they would have to amputate my foot before infection spread further.Fortunately , the treatment was successful in stopping the spread of the infection , but I needed hostipal visits 2 times a day for 3 weeks until toe wound sealed , I remained on anti biotics for some time and until swelling in foot went down. It took several months before my foot went back to normal.

What I learnt is forget Thai girl friend witch doctor treatments , any cut or scratch douse with bedidine immediately and cover with bandage and clean wound 3 times a day and bandage and avoid washing wound in tap water use bottled water only. If stiches are required go to an international hospital immediately.

Avoid walking through any creek or waterway , particularly if you have cuts , but if you can not aviod wash down in clean water asap.

[BB24]

Unforunately this is both a tragedy and a farce - and it happens all over the world - everywhere - it is just more frequently and more severe in tropical climates.

Beenb around a while and there are two things that seem to be very common in these types of stories - unlucky and/or stupid. I think this guy is both:

Now, almost two months since the accident, it still hasn’t healed and John still gets around on crutches. But he’s optimistic about his recovery and says the experience won’t stop him travelling again. “I’m going back to (Thailand) as soon as possible! As soon as I have the money sorted out, I’m going,” he said.

Being unlucky is not just getting the 'bug' through a cut/accident, it is also being 'over' sensitive to that bug - it can and has happenned to anyone anywhere.

But being stupid is getting severaly cut (needing stitches) in a tropical climate at a remote resort, and still being so focussed on having a good time on your holiday, that you ignore the obvious.

Ignorance is no excuse - there are plenty of free available websites offering information and advice about travelling - in particular detailed warnings and advice about getting cuts properly treated.

I do hope he gets better and fully recovers .... and also grows a brain. Come back by all means mate - but take precautions and get ANY cut properly treated immediately.

[pacovl46]

Looking at the pictures it seems like he was infected with Necrotizing Faciitis or 'Flesh Eating Bacteria". It's very prevalent here in Thailand. I have had it no less than 5 times, the bacteria is always present but benign until the skin becomes broken. A small thing like a mosquito bite can turn into a huge gaping ulcer. One of my lower legs had to be amputated because of this disease. This bloke was lucky he didn't suffer the same fate. See https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ZoPLUoPxAaXZigf2xYDIDA#q=necrotizing+fasciitis

NF was my first thought, too, but it spreads, as you know, very fast. This in comparison seems to be very localized. NF would have infected a much bigger area over the same time span.

[mihalis]

Travel insurance is a must no matter where you travel... Cuts in thailand need more attention, due to humidity.. Excess use of antibiotics are also issues a lot off people have, thus they dont work as per usual..

[lounger]

I was bitten by a dog in Phuket. the local hospital wouldn't put in a stitch as the likelihood of infection being inside was too strong. Everyday they stuffed iodine soaked lint into the hole until it closed of its own accord ( it stung so much that when i asked about a rabies injection the nurse said she had given me one while i was gritting my teeth and hadn't noticed)

this makes me think the teddy bear stitches were too tight and room should have been left for daily internal cleansing.....................back to the lack of experience at the clinic, born out by the quality of the stitches

I had a check up in the big hospital in Samui and a nurse didn't know how to take a blood sample. After 4 attempts to puncture the vein she said she would wait for the real nurse to come on duty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shadychris]

didn't even read your whole post . thier are good hospitals and bad ones in every country. now im from usa. so I would go to mayo clinic in Minnesota with any real issue. otherwise I would want an English speaker, if I was in asia and needed real help I think I would strongly consider india. Thailand, not sure. depends on issue. remember one thing. all hospitals are selling services. buyer beware anywhere. including usa. but i want a surgeon trained in usa.

the moral of the story is to be aware of the dangers of the Thai healthcare system........... don't think because someone is wearing a white coat or they have modernist armchairs and a fish tank that these people are either trained to the standards you expect or even have the same ethics..........this is NOT just local clinics, this applies to major hospitals as well.

Whoever did that stitching needs to go back to their old job - making handbags

I have found the Thai Healthcare system to be far better than anything I've experienced in Europe. Plus all the doctors are from Thailand which is good as it stops any communication problems if you speak Thai..Although most doctors are fluent in Thai, English and possibly even a third language.... Last Year I spent over six hours in an A and E in England with a very sick four year old. The reason we were in an A and E was because the quickest appointment we could get to see a doctor in a local clinic was 9 days!! Eventually, when a doctor showed up he was a non native speaker who was barely understandable..The ward was full of drunk people and drug addicts! The hospitals in Thailand are much cleaner and safer.The health system here really puts Europe to shame.And we have the audacity to refer to Thailand as a 'developing country'(some uneducated people even refer to Thailand as a third world country!!)

The article about the OP highlights the arrogance of the West towards other countries. It is a weak attempt at continuing the Australian media's attempts to disparage Thailand. The fact that the man in question can't wait to get back to Thailand says it all really...

As soon as you hear "in my experience" or "i have found" you can be sure you aren't going to hear a reasoned argument - just someone's personal perspective - as they don't realise how limited this is it is basically invalid and pointless to counter.

...and why should your sweeping opinion and perspective that healthcare is not to be trusted in Thailand be any less invalid or pointless??

Whilst deriding others opinions you like to come across as an authority on everything, but don't provide any proof or evidence of your own to back up your opinion or prove that you actually know anything more than nothing yourself

Had a huge amount of experience in many many hospitals and clinics across the Kingdom have we? Carried out extensive surveys to ensure that the training of all the doctors and nurses is up to the high standard you expect?

Where is your evidence to support your claims? At least those saying 'in my experience' or 'I have found' do actually have some experience to back up what they say

Infection is a fact of life not specific to Thailand - how about MRSA which is frequently found in western hospitals? I'm sure one could find good and bad cases of treatment in any hospital in any country. Cases of surgical instruments left inside patients bodies after ops? Incorrect doses or even incorrect drugs administered to patients? All these have, and still do happen in any hospital anywhere in the world. Setting aside negligence, medicine is not an exact science - things can and do go unexpectedly wrong. So why aren't you also saying that people should be aware of the dangers of healthcare systems globally??

This guy got infected by cutting himself outdoors in a tropical environment. He developed a very nasty infection which was subsequently effectively treated over the following days with no long lasting effect to his health or loss of limbs.

But hey - why let the 'facts' get in the way of a chance for you to engage in your favourite pastime of Thai bashing....

[claffey]

There is no accountability in the UK either. 1000 unnecessary deaths a month and countless botched operations. If you can afford it Thai health care is much better than the NHS in the UK.

Both your premise and your conclusion are completely incorrect.

Your opinion is your own perspective and completely invalid and pointless!!! You could attempt to back up your point of view with some evidence or experience of your own???? Making closed, one sentence rebuffs of arguments don't really add anything of substance to the forum...

[cumgranosalum]

it doesn't matter how much insurance you have - if the medical staff aren't doing their job properly, the bacteria will still come - they have no concept of money

Edited February 18, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

There is no accountability in the UK either. 1000 unnecessary deaths a month and countless botched operations. If you can afford it Thai health care is much better than the NHS in the UK.

Both your premise and your conclusion are completely incorrect.

Your opinion is your own perspective and completely invalid and pointless!!! You could attempt to back up your point of view with some evidence or experience of your own???? Making closed, one sentence rebuffs of arguments don't really add anything of substance to the forum...

Your comment deserves no more than a "rebuff" - if you want to come to the discussion and contribute anything, you need to know what you are talking about - it is apparent from your post that you don't.

If you want to understand my "rebuff" then I suggest you get properly informed on the subject first. It's not for me to educate you here - do it yourself.

[cumgranosalum]

Travel insurance is a must no matter where you travel... Cuts in thailand need more attention, due to humidity.. Excess use of antibiotics are also issues a lot off people have, thus they dont work as per usual..

antibiotics don't "work" on people, they work on the bacteria. You have to have bacteria that are resistant to the antibiotics....not the person.

the OP's problem was most likely to be that he wasn't prescribed with a sufficient course or he didn't finish the course....or an inappropriate anti-biotic. Or his wound was simply not cleaned properly or treated.

Edited February 18, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[harleyclarkey]

It can happen anywhere....and there are differnt bacteria around the world with different strengths.

I merely pressed on a cyst on my forehead and unknowingly this was the detonator. Seems I burst a sac at the base. Within a matter of hours my face was swollen and especially around my eyes. My local hospital in Dublin gave me an injection and 3 strong antibiotics pills with the advice.... If it gets any worse go immediatly to A&E.

It did and I was now, no exageration, like an Avatar. The stupid (foreign) nurse didn't even look at me, told me to wait....how long I asked....hours she replied. She could have killed me.

After waiting 3 hours and getting worse I went home and tooke the pills.

The next day I was immediatley admitted ....and as I sat in the chair given my first of 64 litre bags of 24 hour intravenous antibiotics over eight days. These got stronger and stronger until there was little left in the safe.

I was within minutes of going blind, deaf and the poison spreading to my spinal cord which was lights out.

So....these bacteria actually allow us humans to inhabit theri planet...they were here before us!

Edited February 18, 2015 by harleyclarkey

[bangmai]

Here is how martial law effects travel medical policies..or at least the one I do business with, that sells 6 billion usd worth per year. If there is a travel warning issued for the country you are going to visit, when you purchase the policy, that will only affect evacuations for political reasons...IOW, they won't pay to send you home, if civil war breaks out, if there was already a warning...otherwise coverage is the same. www.hcc.com Funny, how Mr. Engineer could only afford a "hostel." It also mentions he went to a hospital, then was stitched at a clinic. Drinking while taking anti-biotics won't help matters, either. A friend of mine once said, "Sandals are for Jesus; all others should wear real shoes." The sidewalks are generally horrible here, and add alcohol.....

[cumgranosalum]

didn't even read your whole post . thier are good hospitals and bad ones in every country. now im from usa. so I would go to mayo clinic in Minnesota with any real issue. otherwise I would want an English speaker, if I was in asia and needed real help I think I would strongly consider india. Thailand, not sure. depends on issue. remember one thing. all hospitals are selling services. buyer beware anywhere. including usa. but i want a surgeon trained in usa.

the moral of the story is to be aware of the dangers of the Thai healthcare system........... don't think because someone is wearing a white coat or they have modernist armchairs and a fish tank that these people are either trained to the standards you expect or even have the same ethics..........this is NOT just local clinics, this applies to major hospitals as well.

Whoever did that stitching needs to go back to their old job - making handbags

I have found the Thai Healthcare system to be far better than anything I've experienced in Europe. Plus all the doctors are from Thailand which is good as it stops any communication problems if you speak Thai..Although most doctors are fluent in Thai, English and possibly even a third language.... Last Year I spent over six hours in an A and E in England with a very sick four year old. The reason we were in an A and E was because the quickest appointment we could get to see a doctor in a local clinic was 9 days!! Eventually, when a doctor showed up he was a non native speaker who was barely understandable..The ward was full of drunk people and drug addicts! The hospitals in Thailand are much cleaner and safer.The health system here really puts Europe to shame.And we have the audacity to refer to Thailand as a 'developing country'(some uneducated people even refer to Thailand as a third world country!!)

The article about the OP highlights the arrogance of the West towards other countries. It is a weak attempt at continuing the Australian media's attempts to disparage Thailand. The fact that the man in question can't wait to get back to Thailand says it all really...

As soon as you hear "in my experience" or "i have found" you can be sure you aren't going to hear a reasoned argument - just someone's personal perspective - as they don't realise how limited this is it is basically invalid and pointless to counter.

...and why should your sweeping opinion and perspective that healthcare is not to be trusted in Thailand be any less invalid or pointless??

Whilst deriding others opinions you like to come across as an authority on everything, but don't provide any proof or evidence of your own to back up your opinion or prove that you actually know anything more than nothing yourself

Had a huge amount of experience in many many hospitals and clinics across the Kingdom have we? Carried out extensive surveys to ensure that the training of all the doctors and nurses is up to the high standard you expect?

Where is your evidence to support your claims? At least those saying 'in my experience' or 'I have found' do actually have some experience to back up what they say

Infection is a fact of life not specific to Thailand - how about MRSA which is frequently found in western hospitals? I'm sure one could find good and bad cases of treatment in any hospital in any country. Cases of surgical instruments left inside patients bodies after ops? Incorrect doses or even incorrect drugs administered to patients? All these have, and still do happen in any hospital anywhere in the world. Setting aside negligence, medicine is not an exact science - things can and do go unexpectedly wrong. So why aren't you also saying that people should be aware of the dangers of healthcare systems globally??

This guy got infected by cutting himself outdoors in a tropical environment. He developed a very nasty infection which was subsequently effectively treated over the following days with no long lasting effect to his health or loss of limbs.

But hey - why let the 'facts' get in the way of a chance for you to engage in your favourite pastime of Thai bashing....

I'd spend a bit more time on the message rather than the messenger - if you have a problem with anything I've posted what not counter it with a valid argument?

As i've said before - I'm talking IN PARTICULAR about the Thai healthcare system. You can take it or leave it but then don't be surprised when it all goes pear-shaped in some hospital. ....but judging from your posts, you are seriously under-informed about the Thai healthcare system - which of course is just the way they like it.

Edited February 18, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[harleyclarkey]

Travel insurance is a must no matter where you travel... Cuts in thailand need more attention, due to humidity.. Excess use of antibiotics are also issues a lot off people have, thus they dont work as per usual..

antibiotics don't "work" on people, they work on the bacteria. You have to have bacteria that are resistant to the antibiotics....not the person.

the OP's problem was most likely to be that he wasn't prescribed with a sufficient course or he didn't finish the course....or an inappropriate anti-biotic. Or his wound was simply not cleaned properly or treated.

You are correct.

However I think the poster mean that the person, not the bacteria, takes the antibiotics.

[harleyclarkey]

it doesn't matter how much insurance you have - if the medical staff aren't doing their job properly, the bacteria will still come - they have no concept of money

Also correct...perhaps my post #112 shows this with regard to my first visit.

[jabis]

Travel insurance is the moral of the story.

Isn't travel insurance void during martial law?

There is also Thailand Travel Shield brought to you by TAT

[cumgranosalum]

I feel a bit sad for people who compare healthcare systems when they know so little about them, this is especially clear when they talk about the US healthcare which has just about the most dilapidated, inequitable system in the developed world.

These folk are unfortunately the ones who are most likely to be taken for a ride by unethical healthcare systems such as the Thai one.

[cumgranosalum]

It can happen anywhere....and there are differnt bacteria around the world with different strengths.

I merely pressed on a cyst on my forehead and unknowingly this was the detonator. Seems I burst a sac at the base. Within a matter of hours my face was swollen and especially around my eyes. My local hospital in Dublin gave me an injection and 3 strong antibiotics pills with the advice.... If it gets any worse go immediatly to A&E.

It did and I was now, no exageration, like an Avatar. The stupid (foreign) nurse didn't even look at me, told me to wait....how long I asked....hours she replied. She could have killed me.

After waiting 3 hours and getting worse I went home and tooke the pills.

The next day I was immediatley admitted ....and as I sat in the chair given my first of 64 litre bags of 24 hour intravenous antibiotics over eight days. These got stronger and stronger until there was little left in the safe.

I was within minutes of going blind, deaf and the poison spreading to my spinal cord which was lights out.

So....these bacteria actually allow us humans to inhabit theri planet...they were here before us!

Yes - it can - unfortunately if you had been in Thailand - 1 - you might have died, 2 - no-one would have been held accountable, 3 - if your family tried to prove negligence they would still be in court 16 years later.

there was in fact a case of a poor chap who died about a year ago, following a misdiagnosed "bite" which turned into a massive infection....the doctors basically amputated bits of him until he died.

Edited February 18, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[connda]

You look like a pretty positive person John. I have no doubts you'll eventually pull though. Best of luck. Heal up!

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Oral antibiotics would have been a good idea when the wound was first treated, as anything that size has the chance to get infected and sewing it up will just trap the infection inside.

In a Thai government hospital about 250bht for pain killing injections, washing, stitches, and a course of antibiotics to take home.

Every hospital issues antibiotics when you have road dirt in a wound that needs stitches.

It's so cheap, no need for any insurance claim.

Guessing here,

He didn't take the antibiotics or drank a lot of alcohol (that neutralises the antibiotics).

[cumgranosalum]

Oral antibiotics would have been a good idea when the wound was first treated, as anything that size has the chance to get infected and sewing it up will just trap the infection inside.

In a Thai government hospital about 250bht for pain killing injections, washing, stitches, and a course of antibiotics to take home.

Every hospital issues antibiotics when you have road dirt in a wound that needs stitches.

It's so cheap, no need for any insurance claim.

Guessing here,

He didn't take the antibiotics or drank a lot of alcohol (that neutralises the antibiotics).

Alcohol (and marijuana) can interfere with SOME antibiotics to varying degrees - so can a lot of other substances....you need to check with the Doc or the sheet of indications and side-effects etc.