Hdd failure

[alocacoc]

My notebook do not boot longer. Even I have no access to the bios. When I remove the internal hdd, I gain access to the bios. Then, I'm also able to boot from a USB stick or CD. I guess, the hdd have a issue. I also guess, the data's on the drive are not lost. There is probably a hardware issue. I need to save some data's from this device.

I plan to go to wattana tomorrow. Also some people advise to go to pattaya 2u at tukcom. Some more suggestions?

Windows 7 warned me that there is a HD problem. At this moment, everything worked fine. Finally I decided to restart the notebook. The notebook is not able to booting anymore. Even from a external USB stick. After I removed the hdd, I'm able to get access to the bios. Not when the hdd is installed. There I changed the boot order. So, I'm able to boot from a external device.

But, I need my data's back. So, where should I go tomorrow first? Which shop can really help me?

If someone is able to clone the hdd, I give him a very nice tip.

It looks like, the bios do recognize the drive, but its not able to booting from it.

And, no error message appears like "no os found" or "corrupted boot sector".....

Thanks.

[alocacoc]

If I wouldn't did a restart, I would be able to save the data's. I'm confident that the file system is still correct. Maybe someone must open the drive and read out the content. Possible in pattaya?

By the way, no bluescreen did appear. Everything was fine till I decided to restart the notebook when windows 7 showing up the warning.

Edited February 19, 2015 by alocacoc

[RichCor]

A hard drive error that prevents a system from even entering into BIOS is pretty severe, and unlikely that ANYONE besides a 'data recovery' company will get access to that drive's data.

The best that someone can try is putting the drive into a portable enclosure and trying to connect it to an external USB or SATA port and see if it boots that way.

You don't give a lot of detail on 'what is happening / not happening' when the drive is plugged in, so this is only guessing:

The Hard Drive could be shorting the power supply, preventing the Laptop from booting.

Could be the controller board shorting/stopping a data-clock timing circuit and locking up the CPU

Could be the drive isn't spinning up

Could be the oil in the 'sealed' drive is old and preventing the head from moving

Could be a number of many things.

DO NOT let anyone except a specialized data recovery company "open the drive up". Bad, very bad.

Otherwise, if you really need the data on the drive (because your life depends on it, or there's millions of currency trapped on it) then it will COST YOU A LOT to have a data recovery center run through their processes and procedures to recover the data for you.

[alocacoc]

Thanks mate.

Now, what happen. I came back home, start my notebook while i pressed some buttons like F1 , F2 and so on during the booting process . Actually, F2 is the key to enter the bios. The notebook started again and it is still running. I was able to backup 133GB data's to a external drive. I only know F2 (for bios) and F8 (for windows startup menue). May be, F1 did something.....

So far, so good. I'm very happy i saved my data's finally. Now, everything is running fine. I just write this answer with it.

You say, i gave not enough details. Ok, this is what happens: My notebook was running. Everything fine. Suddenly a message box from my windows 7 comes up which says something like: Warning: Your hard disk have a problem. Then i restarted the notebook which was not possible.On the screen, only the Samsung logo appeared and on the bottom "Press F2 for Setup", which is the bios.

Thats all.

Now, could it be possible, that the cmos battery is empty? Could this cause the problem? I will not shut down my device for tonight. Who knows if it ever will be able to start it again.

Edited February 19, 2015 by alocacoc

[koo wallety tourist]

Thanks mate.

Now, what happen. I came back home, start my notebook while i pressed some buttons like F1 , F2 and so on during the booting process . Actually, F2 is the key to enter the bios. The notebook started again and it is still running. I was able to backup 133GB data's to a external drive. I only know F2 (for bios) and F8 (for windows startup menue). May be, F1 did something.....

So far, so good. I'm very happy i saved my data's finally. Now, everything is running fine. I just write this answer with it.

You say, i gave not enough details. Ok, this is what happens: My notebook was running. Everything fine. Suddenly a message box from my windows 7 comes up which says something like: Warning: Your hard disk have a problem. Then i restarted the notebook which was not possible.On the screen, only the Samsung logo appeared and on the bottom "Press F2 for Setup", which is the bios.

Thats all.

Now, could it be possible, that the cmos battery is empty? Could this cause the problem? I will not shut down my device for tonight. Who knows if it ever will be able to start it again.

ask the Buddha he knows

[RichCor]

If the Time/Date of the system is WAY OFF then that's an indication that the small internal battery powering CMOS which is the memory storage area for BIOS. And yes, a dead battery would affect how the system works.

IF the system is running normally now, and you've copied all of your critical data to other locations, then it should be OK to do some simple tests.

Take a look at the date/time on your notebook clock.

Power down the notebook. Unplug the power. Disconnect the battery. Wait 5 minutes. Put it all back together.

Boot into BIOS and check date/time. Is it correct, or has it reset (wrong year)? If it's the wrong year then the CMOS battery needs to be replaced.

[NeverSure]

You could have any one of a number of problems. It could even be the HDD controller on the motherboard or the motherboard drivers. It's apparently not the boot files or it would never have booted.

Do you have room on that external drive for an image of your current drive? Right-click on your C: drive to see the size of the data. Then right-click on your external to see if there's room.

Many versions of Windows 7 will make an image natively. HERE are instructions for doing that if your version will do it. You'll need to scroll down to Win 7. An image is a direct image of all that's on your %system% drive (usually C:) and can be restored to a new HDD if you have to do that. If you have other partitions the image can include those too if you check the boxes.

Be sure to also make a restore CD or bootable USB drive so you can restore the image to a new HDD. Google how to do that too and do it.

IMHO everyone should always have a fairly recent image of the HDD.

[ukrules]

I'm glad you managed to recover the files without having to start swapping circuit boards, etc.

I suggest you guard against data loss by using some kind of backup system.

I use google drive, boxcryptor v1 (I don't like the look of v2) and goodsync for my backup system. This encrypts everything including the directory names and file names and you access it via a virtual encrypted drive within the google drive virtual drive. The data is then stored ni the $5 a month google account.

You can also set it so that the data is constantly synced with any other computers you might have access to knowing that nobody else can access your data as it's fully encrypted.

Edited February 19, 2015 by ukrules

[alocacoc]

Thanks mates. Now i backup the "less important" garbage.

Then i do the which RichCor mentioned. I believe, that it could be the weak cmos battery. Because, i did set in the boot order as first place a usb stick with a live linux distribution on it. The notebook was even not able to boot from this device. It may be, that bios lost its configuration.

I read some reports were people recognized exactly the same problem.

After the backup of the important datas was done, i restarted the notebook. No problem at all.

[alocacoc]

Ok,i did the test. After restart the device, the date on the bios was still correct. Then i went to Samsung Service Center. They told me, i should come monday since today there is a long queue. To replace the battery would cost about 1500 Baht. They want check what caused the problem. But I'm sure, if the issue not appears again, they won't found anything.

Last night, as i pressed F1 and the device did boot. I read, that F1 would override some errors. But anyway, now the notebook is booting up normally. So, I'm now not sure what i should do. Do nothing and hope this condition will last, or let it check by Samsung and trust in their diagnosis. I tend to wait, and get back to Samsung if the problem occurs again.

At least all my datas are saved now.

If there is a hardware defect on the mainboard, hdd controller or wherever, does it make sense that the device runs well now? I doubt it.

Edited February 20, 2015 by alocacoc

[RKASA]

If you get into bios turn on the details during boot option rather then a simple spalsh screen and see what it says during boot. Smart disk will sometimes provide wrong error about the drive due to fail and stop the boot process - with details turned on it will say it is asking yes/no to proceed. It will proceed if you safe boot also but you don't want to run that way. If there is really nothing wrong with the drive you can turn off smart drive error detaction in the bios. I have one drive that did this years ago and it still works fine, but I also do lots of back ups so not to worry if it does someday pop.

[alocacoc]

Thanks. I will test this.

I have one drive that did this years ago and it still works fine

Yes, this is reported by many users. So far, my notebook runs fine. Now i have another theory. It might sound strange, but it's true. When i placed my old Smartphone too close to the notebook, i got a blue screen within seconds. Looks like my Samsung notebook don't like the samsung phone. Just a few days ago i bought a new S5 and tested yesterday if it would have the same affect to the notebook. Same result. May be, the radiations did something with the bios eeprom. However, i did reset the bios and after pressing F1 the computer did boot again.

Sounds strange? I guess.

Edited February 20, 2015 by alocacoc

[NeverSure]

If there is a hardware defect on the mainboard, hdd controller or wherever, does it make sense that the device runs well now? I doubt it.

Most of this hardware mentioned has printed circuit boards. That is a fiberglass board with the circuits printed on it and perhaps some diodes and other things attached.

If a circuit board is cracked it can drive you crazy because as long as it maintains its shape the circuit will have continuity. But given some heat from the machine running, the board can expand and break the connection(s).

You have some possibility that the reason your machine started after time was that it had cooled down, a circuit board had contracted, circuit contacts were reestablished and it was able to start. In fact, that's actually and definitely on my list of suspects for those reasons.

If my guess happened to be true it would obviously be the HDD controller on the mobo or a printed circuit board in the HDD.

Now, you don't know enough to be dismissive of someone who's been in enterprise level IT departments with thousand of computers over a lot of years. You came here for help and frankly, I didn't appreciate your last sentence. If you want help, listen to all suggestions and possibilities because:

It started after it cooled down and and that's the only thing we know that changed !!!

Cheers.

Edited February 20, 2015 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

OP, I'd like to go a little deeper. You don't have a software problem on your HDD. Your boot sector, boot files, Windows core kernel files and the files you recovered are all intact. There's nothing wrong there.

The main parts of the computer that would allow it to boot from a USB stick or a CD are fine. You can enter the bios and make changes. That firmware is intact.

Your problem is hardware. Windows warned you of a HDD problem but it doesn't have to be the HDD. It could be the controller on the mobo.

You need to image that HDD onto a new HDD and use it as standby. Then if the HDD is failing you have a plug and play system only needing the backups from when you did the image. Be sure to also burn a rescue disk to use to restore the image to a new HDD.

I like the free program Cobian Backup 10 because it has a scheduler to run every night, can save to an external, and uses the Windows Volume Shadow Copy Service while running, assuring a complete and accurate backup. It will also delete backups and save only as many as you tell it, to save disk space.

Before long you will be replacing some hardware and it may be the HDD. Why not be ready with an image at all times to dump onto a new HDD and be right back where you were in less than 30 minutes?

Cheers.

Edited February 20, 2015 by NeverSure

[lostinisaan]

OP, I'd like to go a little deeper. You don't have a software problem on your HDD. Your boot sector, boot files, Windows core kernel files and the files you recovered are all intact. There's nothing wrong there.

The main parts of the computer that would allow it to boot from a USB stick or a CD are fine. You can enter the bios and make changes. That firmware is intact.

Your problem is hardware. Windows warned you of a HDD problem but it doesn't have to be the HDD. It could be the controller on the mobo.

You need to image that HDD onto a new HDD and use it as standby. Then if the HDD is failing you have a plug and play system only needing the backups from when you did the image. Be sure to also burn a rescue disk to use to restore the image to a new HDD.

I like the free program Cobian Backup 10 because it has a scheduler to run every night, can save to an external, and uses the Windows Volume Shadow Copy Service while running, assuring a complete and accurate backup. It will also delete backups and save only as many as you tell it, to save disk space.

Before long you will be replacing some hardware and it may be the HDD. Why not be ready with an image at all times to dump onto a new HDD and be right back where you were in less than 30 minutes?

Cheers.

A very good post. Wouldn't it make sense to try "Hard drive Sentinel" to see the "health" of your HD? It even tells you when to replace your HD.

I've done that a couple of times, using Acronis True image to clone the HD. That takes only about an hour and you've got your system back where it was before, without downloading drivers, programs, etc and you keep all your files and folders where they are right now. Just a thought.

[NeverSure]

OP, I'd like to go a little deeper. You don't have a software problem on your HDD. Your boot sector, boot files, Windows core kernel files and the files you recovered are all intact. There's nothing wrong there.

The main parts of the computer that would allow it to boot from a USB stick or a CD are fine. You can enter the bios and make changes. That firmware is intact.

Your problem is hardware. Windows warned you of a HDD problem but it doesn't have to be the HDD. It could be the controller on the mobo.

You need to image that HDD onto a new HDD and use it as standby. Then if the HDD is failing you have a plug and play system only needing the backups from when you did the image. Be sure to also burn a rescue disk to use to restore the image to a new HDD.

I like the free program Cobian Backup 10 because it has a scheduler to run every night, can save to an external, and uses the Windows Volume Shadow Copy Service while running, assuring a complete and accurate backup. It will also delete backups and save only as many as you tell it, to save disk space.

Before long you will be replacing some hardware and it may be the HDD. Why not be ready with an image at all times to dump onto a new HDD and be right back where you were in less than 30 minutes?

Cheers.

A very good post. Wouldn't it make sense to try "Hard drive Sentinel" to see the "health" of your HD? It even tells you when to replace your HD.

I've done that a couple of times, using Acronis True image to clone the HD. That takes only about an hour and you've got your system back where it was before, without downloading drivers, programs, etc and you keep all your files and folders where they are right now. Just a thought.

Thanks.

No, a HDD test would show no problem IF this is a cracked printed circuit board that was working.

When you shut a computer down, parts of it continue to get hotter due to fans being off until it actually begins to cool . This is especially true near the CPU. This could explain why it was running and then wouldn't restart. It takes only a tiny separation in a circuit on a circuit board to lose contact.

I'm going to stick to the theory that this is a cracked circuit board either involving the HDD controller on the mobo, or in the HDD itself. Right now it's the only thing that ticks all of the boxes. It isn't software including firmware because it's running fine. It did it only when he shut it down, and then it started only after he left it for a considerable time and it would have cooled off. This situation could only affect hardware.

Because the machine is designed to keep the CPU cooled, and because if fan(s) had failed and overheated the CPU it should have shut down while running. It did give a HDD warning while running but there are so many circuits to a HDD that it might keep running.

I've seen this before and as I said it can drive you nuts because you can't test for it. At least not on our level. All we can do is say "It acts up when hot but not when cool and that must be the CPU or a printed circuit." Since it's not the CPU due to a warning before shut down, and the warning points to the HDD, it's most likely a printed circuit.

Most likely doesn't mean it is. But best practice is to hone in on the most likely, having eliminated the unlikely. It runs fine when the temperature was OK, acted up as it most likely got heated, and then wouldn't start immediately after shutdown when it was really hot in there.

[NeverSure]

Edit. Let me add that it isn't affecting booting from a thumb drive or a CD. So it isn't the whole computer including the CPU. It is something that affects the HDD only when it's hot. This points everything at a heat related issue involving the HDD and nowhere else.

[RichCor]

[...] So far, my notebook runs fine. Now i have another theory.

It might sound strange, but it's true.

When i placed my old Smartphone too close to the notebook, i got a blue screen within seconds. Looks like my Samsung notebook don't like the samsung phone. Just a few days ago i bought a new S5 and tested yesterday if it would have the same affect to the notebook. Same result. May be, the radiations did something with the bios eeprom. However, i did reset the bios and after pressing F1 the computer did boot again.

Sounds strange? I guess.

So now you have several working theories. Heat, Cracked printed board with intermittent connection, or RF Interference.

Is the notebook still continuing to boot and run for hours without issue?

[2fishin2]

The second sentence was he had no access to bios which means more than likely his CMOS battery is dead ( OP how old is your computer?). Remember the computer gets its 1st of instructions from Bios and then it goes to RAM if I remember correctly. Next it goes into POST which if there is a hardware failure the computer will beep depending on the failure. Im thinking the computer never made it to POST and if thats true wouldnt it mean a BIOS issue and more than likely its battery? Sometimes RAM issues will mask other problems....although normally RAM will cause a computer to bluescreen. I know most of you are more savy than me in this arena. Just throwing these things out there.

[NeverSure]

The second sentence was he had no access to bios which means more than likely his CMOS battery is dead ( OP how old is your computer?). Remember the computer gets its 1st of instructions from Bios and then it goes to RAM if I remember correctly. Next it goes into POST which if there is a hardware failure the computer will beep depending on the failure. Im thinking the computer never made it to POST and if thats true wouldnt it mean a BIOS issue and more than likely its battery? Sometimes RAM issues will mask other problems....although normally RAM will cause a computer to bluescreen. I know most of you are more savy than me in this arena. Just throwing these things out there.

"After I removed the hdd, I'm able to get access to the bios. Not when the hdd is installed. There I changed the boot order. So, I'm able to boot from a external device."

They way I read this, he was able to access the bios after he removed the HDD, but not while the HDD was in it. This isn't the CMOS.

It is always HDD related and happened only when the machine was hot. It is a hardware issue related to heat. It always points to the HDD which could be the electronics inside the HDD or the controller on the mobo. He even received a HDD warning from Windows before he shut down.

When we see something like this related to heat, and it's confined to one thing, it's always hardware. We have pinpointed this to only the HDD or controller, and only while hot. It's really not that difficult.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

The OP never mentioned heat. I did. I said an issue like this can drive you nuts because it will be intermittent. His computer may work fine for months and then do it again.

For him it may be no problem to just wait. But in a business environment where an expensive employee is out of work without the computer, and you have to have a tech swap computers and join the new one to the network (Active Directory etc.) and then still have a computer you don't trust, it does drive you nuts. You replace the mobo and the HDD and put it back in rotation. You log the problem and if it happens again you toss the computer. You can't even salvage parts if you can't diagnose it and give it 100% uptime.

When I read the OP I suspected heat. When he later said he'd left the house for quite a while and when he came back it worked fine, I slammed my fist on my keyboard, LOL, and said "heat."

He's going to have this problem again. What he does is up to him. I'd sure keep good backups, but not knowing if it's the HDD or mobo, I'd toss it. Seriously. If it was a tower I'd replace the HDD and mobo, but that's really not an option here.

Cheers

[2fishin2]

The second sentence was he had no access to bios which means more than likely his CMOS battery is dead ( OP how old is your computer?). Remember the computer gets its 1st of instructions from Bios and then it goes to RAM if I remember correctly. Next it goes into POST which if there is a hardware failure the computer will beep depending on the failure. Im thinking the computer never made it to POST and if thats true wouldnt it mean a BIOS issue and more than likely its battery? Sometimes RAM issues will mask other problems....although normally RAM will cause a computer to bluescreen. I know most of you are more savy than me in this arena. Just throwing these things out there.

"After I removed the hdd, I'm able to get access to the bios. Not when the hdd is installed. There I changed the boot order. So, I'm able to boot from a external device."

They way I read this, he was able to access the bios after he removed the HDD, but not while the HDD was in it. This isn't the CMOS.

It is always HDD related and happened only when the machine was hot. It is a hardware issue related to heat. It always points to the HDD which could be the electronics inside the HDD or the controller on the mobo. He even received a HDD warning from Windows before he shut down.

When we see something like this related to heat, and it's confined to one thing, it's always hardware. We have pinpointed this to only the HDD or controller, and only while hot. It's really not that difficult.

Cheers.

Not arguing just trying to understand this all. I cant wrap my head around him not being able to enter the bios until removing the hard drive?? That puzzles me as the computer doesnt even access the hard drive until the bios says to. Bios is first right? Then after the computer access bios for startup parameters it goes into POST and would beep if there is a hardware (hard drive) failure.

I think there is some miscommunication from the OP. Im really curious as to what this hdd failure is that he experienced. When did it happen and exactly what did it say.

Not saying that you are wrong, just saying that what the OP gave as symptoms does not match how a computer operates. Either way like you said he needs to fix this problem as it wont go away. Next time he wont be so lucky.

[NeverSure]

"After I removed the hdd, I'm able to get access to the bios. Not when the hdd is installed. There I changed the boot order. So, I'm able to boot from a external device."

They way I read this, he was able to access the bios after he removed the HDD, but not while the HDD was in it. This isn't the CMOS.

It is always HDD related and happened only when the machine was hot. It is a hardware issue related to heat. It always points to the HDD which could be the electronics inside the HDD or the controller on the mobo. He even received a HDD warning from Windows before he shut down.

When we see something like this related to heat, and it's confined to one thing, it's always hardware. We have pinpointed this to only the HDD or controller, and only while hot. It's really not that difficult.

Cheers.

Not arguing just trying to understand this all. I cant wrap my head around him not being able to enter the bios until removing the hard drive?? That puzzles me as the computer doesnt even access the hard drive until the bios says to. Bios is first right? Then after the computer access bios for startup parameters it goes into POST and would beep if there is a hardware (hard drive) failure.

I think there is some miscommunication from the OP. Im really curious as to what this hdd failure is that he experienced. When did it happen and exactly what did it say.

Not saying that you are wrong, just saying that what the OP gave as symptoms does not match how a computer operates. Either way like you said he needs to fix this problem as it wont go away. Next time he wont be so lucky.

When you get an open circuit or a short circuit, it can affect anything or everything. There are too many interconnected circuits on the mobo. The HDD accesses the RAM, the CPU,, the BIOS, USB ports, etc. and vice versa. These are what we call channels on the mobo.

Good call on the POST but it didn't need to fail the POST to be in the condition it was in. Remember, he couldn't access the bios until he pulled the HDD. The bios was probably disabled.

The POST doesn't check for the HDD even if the bios was working. Some guessed it might have a dead cmos battery which was reasonable up to that point.

When I read the OP I wondered about heat. When he posted later that it started and ran fine after he tuned it off and left it off, I knew it. It had too many symptoms - HDD warning while running, wouldn't start, couldn't access the bios, pulled HDD and could access the bios and boot from USB or CD, then ran great after cooling down while nothing else changed.

The only thing that fixed it was to let it cool.

Edited February 22, 2015 by NeverSure

[lostinisaan]

"After I removed the hdd, I'm able to get access to the bios. Not when the hdd is installed. There I changed the boot order. So, I'm able to boot from a external device."

They way I read this, he was able to access the bios after he removed the HDD, but not while the HDD was in it. This isn't the CMOS.

It is always HDD related and happened only when the machine was hot. It is a hardware issue related to heat. It always points to the HDD which could be the electronics inside the HDD or the controller on the mobo. He even received a HDD warning from Windows before he shut down.

When we see something like this related to heat, and it's confined to one thing, it's always hardware. We have pinpointed this to only the HDD or controller, and only while hot. It's really not that difficult.

Cheers.

Not arguing just trying to understand this all. I cant wrap my head around him not being able to enter the bios until removing the hard drive?? That puzzles me as the computer doesnt even access the hard drive until the bios says to. Bios is first right? Then after the computer access bios for startup parameters it goes into POST and would beep if there is a hardware (hard drive) failure.

I think there is some miscommunication from the OP. Im really curious as to what this hdd failure is that he experienced. When did it happen and exactly what did it say.

Not saying that you are wrong, just saying that what the OP gave as symptoms does not match how a computer operates. Either way like you said he needs to fix this problem as it wont go away. Next time he wont be so lucky.

When you get an open circuit or a short circuit, it can affect anything or everything. There are too many interconnected circuits on the mobo. The HDD accesses the RAM, the CPU,, the BIOS, USB ports, etc. and vice versa. These are what we call channels on the mobo.

Good call on the POST but it didn't need to fail the POST to be in the condition it was in. Remember, he couldn't access the bios until he pulled the HDD. The bios was probably disabled.

The POST doesn't check for the HDD even if the bios was working. Some guessed it might have a dead cmos battery which was reasonable up to that point.

When I read the OP I wondered about heat. When he posted later that it started and ran fine after he tuned it off and left it off, I knew it. It had too many symptoms - HDD warning while running, wouldn't start, couldn't access the bios, pulled HDD and could access the bios and boot from USB or CD, then ran great after cooling down while nothing else changed.

The only thing that fixed it was to let it cool.

Many great reasons, indeed. But honestly speaking, the OP didn't even write what machine it is and how old it is.

It could also have been some tiny ants that caused the malfunction. Regarding the manager of a bigger computer shop, who became my friend over the years, the cause of many computer related problems. Simply some tiny ants, or other insects.

And I still believe that a HD with moving parts could hang, or just worn out.

I don't know why, but I'd check the HD with Sentinel, then the next step, etc...

[NeverSure]

When you get an open circuit or a short circuit, it can affect anything or everything. There are too many interconnected circuits on the mobo. The HDD accesses the RAM, the CPU,, the BIOS, USB ports, etc. and vice versa. These are what we call channels on the mobo.

Good call on the POST but it didn't need to fail the POST to be in the condition it was in. Remember, he couldn't access the bios until he pulled the HDD. The bios was probably disabled.

The POST doesn't check for the HDD even if the bios was working. Some guessed it might have a dead cmos battery which was reasonable up to that point.

When I read the OP I wondered about heat. When he posted later that it started and ran fine after he tuned it off and left it off, I knew it. It had too many symptoms - HDD warning while running, wouldn't start, couldn't access the bios, pulled HDD and could access the bios and boot from USB or CD, then ran great after cooling down while nothing else changed.

The only thing that fixed it was to let it cool.

Many great reasons, indeed. But honestly speaking, the OP didn't even write what machine it is and how old it is.

It could also have been some tiny ants that caused the malfunction. Regarding the manager of a bigger computer shop, who became my friend over the years, the cause of many computer related problems. Simply some tiny ants, or other insects.

And I still believe that a HD with moving parts could hang, or just worn out.

I don't know why, but I'd check the HD with Sentinel, then the next step, etc...

You aren't going to get anything with Sentinel because it's running great, his files are there, nothing is corrupted, it's not the platters or read/write heads "or anything else when it's working."

It's a notebook. It doesn't have ants.

The frustrating thing is that this will be intermittent. It will run great or go dead. There's no way to test it when it's running and no way when it's dead. Only someone willing to go over the boards with a microscope could spot a crack especially when it's closed which it would be when being inspected.

The one thing a guy could do is toss in a new HDD cloned, and see if it ever fails again. If it does it's the mobo. In the meantime you wouldn't know if you could trust the spare HDD or the mobo.

Many times we had tossed out 3 sticks of ram or 4 sticks of dual channel ram because we knew it was ram but weren't sure which stick. When we worked on machines every stick seemed good because they had cooled a little. We knew one was bad but we couldn't be sure which one and we couldn't keep messing with the machine when an employee needed to work. Sometimes they'd act up only once in a while. Out they go.

Cheers

Edited February 22, 2015 by NeverSure

[BB1950]

Not arguing just trying to understand this all. I cant wrap my head around him not being able to enter the bios until removing the hard drive?? That puzzles me as the computer doesnt even access the hard drive until the bios says to. Bios is first right? Then after the computer access bios for startup parameters it goes into POST and would beep if there is a hardware (hard drive) failure.

I think there is some miscommunication from the OP. Im really curious as to what this hdd failure is that he experienced. When did it happen and exactly what did it say.

Not saying that you are wrong, just saying that what the OP gave as symptoms does not match how a computer operates. Either way like you said he needs to fix this problem as it wont go away. Next time he wont be so lucky.

Mostly true and what we don't know is whether the failure occurred during a cold boot or warm process or if the computer has a piezoelectric connected to the motherboard in order for the OP to hear beep codes that are generated when's there a failure during the POST (the POST operates from the BIOS firmware). There are all kinds of things that happen in BIOS long before you can even enter the BIOS settings or Boot device selection with a keystroke including but not limited to power supply test, memory test, and other basic hardware tests. Without knowing more, we're just guessing...

Unfortunately the OP is not qualified enough to know what to look for. But in no way is a mobile phone nearby going to affect this! There are RF protection shields within a laptop.The laptop needs to be taken to a qualified professional who's experience in working on that particular model of laptop because the steps vary depending on installed hardware, hardware configuration, and BIOS versions (for example: Boot process order, different keystrokes and beep codes are used between BIOS developers and versions).

We also don't know if the OP disturbed any other electrical connections while taking the HDD out, or the condition of the power supply or connections. The very first thing is a power good signal must be present before the computer will even start the POST. The OP also could have accidentally reset the CMOS settings while taking out the hard drive!

Bottom line... unless you know what you're doing don't mess with the hardware if a computer won't boot! Take it to a professional who knows what to do and look for! Here in Thailand the evaluation is cheap! It's either free or a charge of about 300 baht!

Okay here's the million dollar question? Is it going to fail again soon! Maybe, maybe not. We can't answer that because the OP has disturbed the hardware by taking the HDD out. We don't know what exactly was done, including touching a sensitive component (i.e. accidentally touching the CMOS reset jumper or disturbing a poor connection).

But there are some things that can be done to help minimize the chance... Have the power supply tested, have the laptop and connections cleaned including the memory chips. Have the motherboard removed and checked for possible electrical discharge points to chassis. This should be done periodically. It's the equivalent to changing oil of an engine to prevent engine failure. This needs to be done by a processional as the OP definitely doesn't know what to look for.

Remember the inside of a computer is very sensitive; Touching a sensitive point, dust, or dirty and resistive connections have a dramatic affect. There's a reason there's tamper detection seals usually present at critical points. It's a usually a sign saying: "Stay out! Critical components inside." The tampering of a seal will void any warranty.

Edited February 22, 2015 by BB1950

[lostinisaan]

When you get an open circuit or a short circuit, it can affect anything or everything. There are too many interconnected circuits on the mobo. The HDD accesses the RAM, the CPU,, the BIOS, USB ports, etc. and vice versa. These are what we call channels on the mobo.

Good call on the POST but it didn't need to fail the POST to be in the condition it was in. Remember, he couldn't access the bios until he pulled the HDD. The bios was probably disabled.

The POST doesn't check for the HDD even if the bios was working. Some guessed it might have a dead cmos battery which was reasonable up to that point.

When I read the OP I wondered about heat. When he posted later that it started and ran fine after he tuned it off and left it off, I knew it. It had too many symptoms - HDD warning while running, wouldn't start, couldn't access the bios, pulled HDD and could access the bios and boot from USB or CD, then ran great after cooling down while nothing else changed.

The only thing that fixed it was to let it cool.

Many great reasons, indeed. But honestly speaking, the OP didn't even write what machine it is and how old it is.

It could also have been some tiny ants that caused the malfunction. Regarding the manager of a bigger computer shop, who became my friend over the years, the cause of many computer related problems. Simply some tiny ants, or other insects.

And I still believe that a HD with moving parts could hang, or just worn out.

I don't know why, but I'd check the HD with Sentinel, then the next step, etc...

You aren't going to get anything with Sentinel because it's running great, his files are there, nothing is corrupted, it's not the platters or read/write heads "or anything else when it's working."

It's a notebook. It doesn't have ants.

The frustrating thing is that this will be intermittent. It will run great or go dead. There's no way to test it when it's running and no way when it's dead. Only someone willing to go over the boards with a microscope could spot a crack especially when it's closed which it would be when being inspected.

The one thing a guy could do is toss in a new HDD cloned, and see if it ever fails again. If it does it's the mobo. In the meantime you wouldn't know if you could trust the spare HDD or the mobo.

Many times we had tossed out 3 sticks of ram or 4 sticks of dual channel ram because we knew it was ram but weren't sure which stick. When we worked on machines every stick seemed good because they had cooled a little. We knew one was bad but we couldn't be sure which one and we couldn't keep messing with the machine when an employee needed to work. Sometimes they'd act up only once in a while. Out they go.

Cheers

It's a notebook. It doesn't have ants.

Even when I have to admit that I like each and every of your posts, I have to disagree on that one.

Just recently, I thought there'd be something wrong with my eyes, when a herd of tiny little ants were in my screen of my DELL notebook.

Just imagine to have these little suckers on your mobo...........that's why i wrote what the computer shop manager had told me that it's pretty common that such animals are causing big problems, once they're in your machine.

The heat might attract them, no idea.

Edited February 22, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

Not arguing just trying to understand this all. I cant wrap my head around him not being able to enter the bios until removing the hard drive?? That puzzles me as the computer doesnt even access the hard drive until the bios says to. Bios is first right? Then after the computer access bios for startup parameters it goes into POST and would beep if there is a hardware (hard drive) failure.

I think there is some miscommunication from the OP. Im really curious as to what this hdd failure is that he experienced. When did it happen and exactly what did it say.

Not saying that you are wrong, just saying that what the OP gave as symptoms does not match how a computer operates. Either way like you said he needs to fix this problem as it wont go away. Next time he wont be so lucky.

Mostly true and what we don't know is whether the failure occurred during a cold boot or warm process or if the computer has a piezoelectric connected to the motherboard in order for the OP to hear beep codes that are generated when's there a failure during the POST (the POST operates from the BIOS firmware). There are all kinds of things that happen in BIOS long before you can even enter the BIOS settings or Boot device selection with a keystroke including but not limited to power supply test, memory test, and other basic hardware tests. Without knowing more, we're just guessing...

Unfortunately the OP is not qualified enough to know what to look for. But in no way is a mobile phone nearby going to affect this! There are RF protection shields within a laptop.The laptop needs to be taken to a qualified professional who's experience in working on that particular model of laptop because the steps vary depending on installed hardware, hardware configuration, and BIOS versions (for example: Boot process order, different keystrokes and beep codes are used between BIOS developers and versions).

We also don't know if the OP disturbed any other electrical connections while taking the HDD out, or the condition of the power supply or connections. The very first thing is a power good signal must be present before the computer will even start the POST. The OP also could have accidentally reset the CMOS settings while taking out the hard drive!

Bottom line... unless you know what you're doing don't mess with the hardware if a computer won't boot! Take it to a professional who knows what to do and look for! Here in Thailand the evaluation is cheap! It's either free or a charge of about 300 baht!

Okay here's the million dollar question? Is it going to fail again soon! Maybe, maybe not. We can't answer that because the OP has disturbed the hardware by taking the HDD out. We don't know what exactly was done, including touching a sensitive component (i.e. accidentally touching the CMOS reset jumper or disturbing a poor connection).

But there are some things that can be done to help minimize the chance... Have the power supply tested, have the laptop and connections cleaned including the memory chips. Have the motherboard removed and checked for possible electrical discharge points to chassis. This should be done periodically. It's the equivalent to changing oil of an engine to prevent engine failure. This needs to be done by a processional as the OP definitely doesn't know what to look for.

Remember the inside of a computer is very sensitive; Touching a sensitive point, dust, or dirty and resistive connections have a dramatic affect. There's a reason there's tamper detection seals usually present at critical points. It's a usually a sign saying: "Stay out! Critical components inside." The tampering of a seal will void any warranty.

Unfortunately the OP is not qualified enough to know what to look for. But in no way is a mobile phone nearby going to affect this! There are RF protection shields within a laptop.

I do recall a guy who never had a problem with his notebook, but whenever his spouse used it, it didn't boot.

It later turned out, of course after many headaches, that it was the brace the spouse was wearing that caused the machine not to boot.

A new HD in a case, then cloning the HD, put it in and see if it works without problems would be my decision.

Edited February 22, 2015 by lostinisaan

[BB1950]

Unfortunately the OP is not qualified enough to know what to look for. But in no way is a mobile phone nearby going to affect this! There are RF protection shields within a laptop.

I do recall a guy who never had a problem with his notebook, but whenever his spouse used it, it didn't boot.

It later turned out, of course after many headaches, that it was the brace the spouse was wearing that caused the machine not to boot.

A new HD in a case, then cloning the HD, put it in and see if it works without problems would be my decision.

I like this. Must have been infuriating.

Without knowing what kind of brace, I would doubt it was because of RFI, as braces don't usually generate RF signals. Probably more likely the brace was acting more like a wrist grounding strap. In addition to discharging static charges, grounding can also alter RF signals and therefore the RF protection shields.

Like I was trying to indicate in my post, computer components and signals are pretty sensitive to all kinds of things. Without knowing exactly what the OP touched or did, it's impossible to determine what prevented the notebook booting. Everything is a guess.

[alocacoc]

[...] So far, my notebook runs fine. Now i have another theory.

It might sound strange, but it's true.

When i placed my old Smartphone too close to the notebook, i got a blue screen within seconds. Looks like my Samsung notebook don't like the samsung phone. Just a few days ago i bought a new S5 and tested yesterday if it would have the same affect to the notebook. Same result. May be, the radiations did something with the bios eeprom. However, i did reset the bios and after pressing F1 the computer did boot again.

Sounds strange? I guess.

So now you have several working theories. Heat, Cracked printed board with intermittent connection, or RF Interference.

Is the notebook still continuing to boot and run for hours without issue?

First, i appreciate all your suggestions.

Often i i use a scree capture tool and then rendering the video. This results in a CPU usage of between 75% and 85% and a heat of the CPU up to 85-90 degrees. I did this yesterday and after the notebook was able to boot without any problem.

The computer is 3 1/2 years old.

Edited February 22, 2015 by alocacoc