The Anti-padi Thread

[skippybangkok]

"Anti-PADI" thread rules say you cant talk anything in this thread which is not Anti-PADI. Where are the mods now ? Seems to be a bias.

I dont the cavern / solo / 1st level cave not with PADI, and the basics i.e. Open and Advance with PADI. I did Nitrox with PADI, and had to re-do my NITROX with the cavern, and boy did I learn a thing or two which was not taught at PADI.

PADI is a machine these days, it dont matter what comes out the rear end so long as they can make the quantity and $$$$.

And yes, there are good PADI shops and Instructors out there. This is NOT and anti-padi instructor / shop thread, rather and anti Padi organization thread.

[rcm]

"Anti-PADI" thread rules say you cant talk anything in this thread which is not Anti-PADI. Where are the mods now ? Seems to be a bias.

I dont the cavern / solo / 1st level cave not with PADI, and the basics i.e. Open and Advance with PADI. I did Nitrox with PADI, and had to re-do my NITROX with the cavern, and boy did I learn a thing or two which was not taught at PADI.

PADI is a machine these days, it dont matter what comes out the rear end so long as they can make the quantity and $$$$.

And yes, there are good PADI shops and Instructors out there. This is NOT and anti-padi instructor / shop thread, rather and anti Padi organization thread.

A) I don't think you can make the "rules" here!

B ) Did you try to make your "own" rules while on a Padi Training too? Than i do not wonder that you had to redo a Training.

C) If Padi in your Eyes is "bad" who is good? Bsac, Naui , FFessm.... tell us why and also specify?

D) What Level in Diving do you have (out of interest)?

E) You want to do Padi "bashing" but never came up with some "story" that explains with Details why it is "so bad" with Padi, that includes the Nitrox Course, .....why did you have to do it again what went wrong, what have you learned with somebody else that you didn't learn with Padi,please specify here as well ?

F) Padi is a well oiled Machine that is running very well and People make Money there too- i can't see the Problem with this?

rcm

Edited September 3, 2006 by rcm

[bazmlb]

Agree its too easy to look at the knowledge reviews, if you dont know something look at the book, this doesnt cover everything in the book but its the way a lot try to do it.

Do they even do anything in the classroom with PADI OW now or do they go straight to the pool?

I think its too easy for both Student and instructor to gloss over a lot of stuf, the courseware, visual aids and idea is good but its too easy to skip bits.

[jdinasia]

I am sure some PADI instructors do gloss over stuff ...

zhowever .. basically you are an adult. You are given materials to learn THEN classroom time to go over it. During that time the instructor repeats the important points several times ... and you learn!

Sure some people need different formats to learn ... sure PADI is not the only option! It just tends to be the BEST option for the majority of people....

[bazmlb]

A) I don't think you can make the "rules" here!

Its the OP's thread

F) Padi is a well oiled Machine that is running very well and People make Money there too- i can't see the Problem with this?

Well oiled machine? like the competition PADI ran at TDEX for Thai's, my TGF won a Nitrox course which she only got the crew kit some months after the expo and after several calls to PADI here and several emails, still waiting for them to come good on the actual course that was promised.

rcm

Edited September 3, 2006 by bazmlb

[rcm]

A) I don't think you can make the "rules" here!

Its the OP's thread

Here are the Rules nowhere anything mentioned about OP starting making rules now....

[jdinasia]

Baz ----

Yes it is the OP's thread ... and sadly he just can't have it all anti-Padi ...

his sour grapes certainly can start a thread ABOUT PADI ... it is a valid topic He can piss and moan about PADI Those of us with good experiences will then comment as well. Still being on topic

He could go start a new website with a forum that HE moderates that ONLY allows anti-PADI stuff. Or I guess he COULD use the Report! buttom and see if he could get the mods to delete everything but his viewpoint.

This isn't the same as hijacking a thread bout something else and making it into a rant

about PADI offering your GF a prize .. was it a shop or PADI?

Edited September 3, 2006 by jdinasia

[bazmlb]

Baz ----

Yes it is the OP's thread ... and sadly he just can't have it all anti-Padi ...

his sour grapes certainly can start a thread ABOUT PADI ... it is a valid topic He can piss and moan about PADI Those of us with good experiences will then comment as well. Still being on topic

He could go start a new website with a forum that HE moderates that ONLY allows anti-PADI stuff.

about PADI offering your GF a prize .. was it a shop or PADI?

My experiences with PADI when i first did my OW back in 1988 were great, there wasnt much else in Australia at that stage apart from FAUI and NAUI, the earlier having gone to the depths.

My best times were whilst doing my cave stuff with CDAA in Australia and the knowledge i learnt there was great.

I am sure PADI do things well mostly as they wouldnt be in business otherwise. Yes there are others and all have their good and bad parts -PSA, pda, TDI, SSI.

It was PADI not a shop

[jdinasia]

That was around May 19th? I was at QSNCC for that! Much fun! I don't remember seeing the PADI org offering prizes Maybe i was rushed!

[skippybangkok]

D) What Level in Diving do you have (out of interest)?

Waow...shoot first, ask questions later. Read above, it might help answer ur questions. Guess you must be on of them instructors eh

[bazmlb]

That was around May 19th? I was at QSNCC for that! Much fun! I don't remember seeing the PADI org offering prizes Maybe i was rushed!

It was down the far end and only a small stand, they weren't pushing it that hard, they seemed not to be that organised at all.

[rcm]

D) What Level in Diving do you have (out of interest)?

Waow...shoot first, ask questions later. Read above, it might help answer ur questions. Guess you must be on of them instructors eh

I didn't shoot anything...just asked.

Nor is it relevant wether i am a instructor with Padi (or any other organisation) or not .

But you on the other Hand made the Anti- Padi Thread, so i want to know what is your experience in

Diving to come up with things like that.

[skippybangkok]

D) What Level in Diving do you have (out of interest)?

Data requested, data provided, data processed (?), conclusion drawn (?).

So what's the conclusion?. Is my level ( how many cards do you have in some peoples terms ) sufficient ?

I only did my Advanced reluctantly after 400 dives, not that it made me a better diver, just needed to plastic to stop some dive operators bitching.

Remember on case years back.... I think i was close to 400, of which maybe 30 to 40 dives on the Hardeep ( Sutatip )(liked, it and still do). The falang operator refused to take me cause I did not have "advanced" ( which was his right and PADI rules ). But when questioned , he was willing to take a newly certified "advanced" diver "no problem". In those days I think from memory you could do advanced straight after your open, and with 8 or 10 dives you would be an "Advanced" diver ( give me a break - "advanced" diver with 10 dives ). <deleted>, most divers are still all over the place with that amount of dives due to lack of bouyancy skills.

Watch all the instructors. Most try to hard sell advanced during the OW certification ( now its low tech, they do it above water, but give it a few more years and they will have had signals underwater DO-YOU-WANT-TO-DO-ADVANCED-NOW. You sign the contract underwater, do a few circles underwater, and bingo - your advanced!! There is a new speciality, PADI advanced air bubble ring blower. ( toungue and cheek, so do get all huffed up ).

Seriously, I think "advanced" should be kept until you have had about 30-50 dives, most people start feeling comfortable after about 20+

[Farma]

I’m BSAC Advanced Diver plus PADI Master Scuba Diver and Dive Master.

I started in BSAC and crossed over to PADI a few years later. It was easier to get dive shops to recognise the PADI card.

In my opinion the BSAC training is the best but too complicated and military orientated to attract the average person off the street. They are now starting to try and make their courses more inviting.

With all sports there are good and bad examples of trained people. I’ve found the number of PADI divers that were either not trained correctly or forgot the basics of their training to be way higher than the BSAC divers I’ve dived with.

The standard problem I find with PADI divers is their lack of buoyancy control and the general let everything hang loose and drag in the sand attitude. I’ve even stopped a PADI instructor in the Similans from putting her hand on a stone fish. I pointed to it afterwards and she had no idea what it was. How can you be an instructor and not know the common dangers in the area?

PADI gets people wet early but what are the risks? I personally prefer to know how to prevent a problem occurring rather than find out how to survive when it happens underwater. This is where I think PADI needs to improve its training standards.

[skippybangkok]

I’m BSAC Advanced Diver plus PADI Master Scuba Diver and Dive Master.

PADI gets people wet early but what are the risks? I personally prefer to know how to prevent a problem occurring rather than find out how to survive when it happens underwater. This is where I think PADI needs to improve its training standards.

Well put.

I too have been to various different providers, and have seen the difference. I think ANDI had the system where you deflate ur BCD totally at 10m when ascending, and kick up to 5 or 3, and then inflate to stay level. This prevents you becoming a polaris, which happens so often with new divers.

My nephew learnt in Phi Phi (PADI by the way), had to re-teach him how to manage good bouyancy AFTER his course.

Helping PADI instructors out . I rescued one once who thought it was normal to take out your reg when climbing back onto a ladder in 3 meter swells ( old vertical wreck when it was still vertical ). She said "that was a good idea to keep the reg in, I will do that in future" ( did i miss something, isnt that a PADI rule ??).

I guess there is good and bad everywhere, the issue is PADI them selves, not necessarily the shops / instructors. I still think "advanced" should not be given until you have done x amount of dives.

Edited September 4, 2006 by skippybangkok

[Plus]

When I took my Open water they signed up ALL other class members for Advanced right away - just three more days on the island, they loved it.

[bazmlb]

The course i did with the TDI instructor a while back, he showed us to stop at 10m for 2 then move up to 5 for 5, this way if you were aiming for 10 and missed you could still stop at five.

A slight variation on the ANDI idea.

He is part of the southern ocean exploration team, they have found more wrecks in Australia than any other group, good web site with interesting pics.

Southern Ocean Exploration

[Chantal]

D) What Level in Diving do you have (out of interest)?

Data requested, data provided, data processed (?), conclusion drawn (?).

So what's the conclusion?. Is my level ( how many cards do you have in some peoples terms ) sufficient ?

I only did my Advanced reluctantly after 400 dives, not that it made me a better diver, just needed to plastic to stop some dive operators bitching.

Remember on case years back.... I think i was close to 400, of which maybe 30 to 40 dives on the Hardeep ( Sutatip )(liked, it and still do). The falang operator refused to take me cause I did not have "advanced" ( which was his right and PADI rules ). But when questioned , he was willing to take a newly certified "advanced" diver "no problem". In those days I think from memory you could do advanced straight after your open, and with 8 or 10 dives you would be an "Advanced" diver ( give me a break - "advanced" diver with 10 dives ). <deleted>, most divers are still all over the place with that amount of dives due to lack of bouyancy skills.

Watch all the instructors. Most try to hard sell advanced during the OW certification ( now its low tech, they do it above water, but give it a few more years and they will have had signals underwater DO-YOU-WANT-TO-DO-ADVANCED-NOW. You sign the contract underwater, do a few circles underwater, and bingo - your advanced!! There is a new speciality, PADI advanced air bubble ring blower. ( toungue and cheek, so do get all huffed up ).

Seriously, I think "advanced" should be kept until you have had about 30-50 dives, most people start feeling comfortable after about 20+

Skippy, you misunderstand the concept of the Advanced Course - this program is designed specifically to improve your diving skills and therefore give you more confidence. In many cases for newly certified Open Water divers who are still very nervous it is actually a good idea for them to go ahead and learn how to improve their abilities.

On the other hand I do agree that there are Open Water divers who have a couple of 100 logged and are far better than Advanced or Rescue levels with the less amount of dives under their belts. But then again some people are born naturals and with fewer dives logged they are far superior in the water in comparison to those who have a lot logged and have so called experience.

Once again I have over the year's seen many both good and bad Instructors from all the organizations. But it certainly is a pity to see in the business world - no matter what line of business you are in - that through some bad experiences from various departments an entire organization can be painted with the same brush.

[skippybangkok]

Skippy, you misunderstand the concept of the Advanced Course - this program is designed specifically to improve your diving skills and therefore give you more confidence. In many cases for newly certified Open Water divers who are still very nervous it is actually a good idea for them to go ahead and learn how to improve their abilities.

On the other hand I do agree that there are Open Water divers who have a couple of 100 logged and are far better than Advanced or Rescue levels with the less amount of dives under their belts. But then again some people are born naturals and with fewer dives logged they are far superior in the water in comparison to those who have a lot logged and have so called experience.

Once again I have over the year's seen many both good and bad Instructors from all the organizations. But it certainly is a pity to see in the business world - no matter what line of business you are in - that through some bad experiences from various departments an entire organization can be painted with the same brush.

OK... Point taken...... I guess whats in a name ?

Just looking back into other industries where safety is an issue ( i.e. aerospace / health care ). I guess one would expect the theory and experience to be matched before handing out "advanced " certs.

But, point taken

[davidjtayler]

This is not a problem thats exclusive to PADI ....... you get good and bad in all professions ... just need to take a little time and do some research before making your choice.

[h90]

Donna gave some great recommendations about the Anti-PADI thread belonging in another place. I guess Scuba Diving is the "right" place then.

Since this is an Anti-PADI thread, non-Anti-PADI comments should not be posted here and are considered :off topic:. ( guess this will will be a short thread)

There are those among us who have seen tons of issues with the certification of divers from hobo dive instructors who travel to thailand to well known reasons. Seen many who's main reason is the grog and bar girls, and... dang....they have to make $$ some how. Well, just pretend to teach diving a bit, certify some people even if they are prone to killing themselves, and collect ur cash. I have seen enough of PADI to question their real controls on their instructors who ultimately end up certifying people to kill themselves.

p.s. There are tons of PADI instructors who are a good and dedicated bunch, and I am sure they would prefer to see the back of there rotten apples.

Actually diving is a sport like every other sport. The Padi system is already close to idiot proof and you should read the books as well.

It it is anyway questionable why padi or anyone else should have the right to decide who is allowed to dive and who not. For example climbing mountains in winter is far more dangerous than diving and for more people die, noone get the idea to ask for a certification.

Maybe the newbie thinks because he/she get a certificate that they can do everything and when they get in serious troubles the blame padi.

On the other hand how should you theach people to act safe. I think alone the OW book should be enough to avoid any problems if really learned. It is like driving cars, you can have a bad theacher and you are a bad driver, but as you know it you just drive lame 50 all the time and never get any problem. Another might me an perfect driver but he drives 200 km/h instead of the 180 he can handle, but neither the theacher nor the driving licence test is wrong.

Hmm not sure if it is understandable what I want to tell.....

[h90]

When I took my Open water they signed up ALL other class members for Advanced right away - just three more days on the island, they loved it.

When I made my OW, there was one company who told they can do the OW in 2 days, 2 more for the AOW.

Everything together in 4 days. I am still checking if I can find the old email......

It was after I wanted to pay less they offered to make it faster....

[rcm]

Donna gave some great recommendations about the Anti-PADI thread belonging in another place. I guess Scuba Diving is the "right" place then.

Since this is an Anti-PADI thread, non-Anti-PADI comments should not be posted here and are considered :off topic:. ( guess this will will be a short thread)

There are those among us who have seen tons of issues with the certification of divers from hobo dive instructors who travel to thailand to well known reasons. Seen many who's main reason is the grog and bar girls, and... dang....they have to make $$ some how. Well, just pretend to teach diving a bit, certify some people even if they are prone to killing themselves, and collect ur cash. I have seen enough of PADI to question their real controls on their instructors who ultimately end up certifying people to kill themselves.

p.s. There are tons of PADI instructors who are a good and dedicated bunch, and I am sure they would prefer to see the back of there rotten apples.

Actually diving is a sport like every other sport. The Padi system is already close to idiot proof and you should read the books as well.

It it is anyway questionable why padi or anyone else should have the right to decide who is allowed to dive and who not. For example climbing mountains in winter is far more dangerous than diving and for more people die, noone get the idea to ask for a certification.

Maybe the newbie thinks because he/she get a certificate that they can do everything and when they get in serious troubles the blame padi.

On the other hand how should you theach people to act safe. I think alone the OW book should be enough to avoid any problems if really learned. It is like driving cars, you can have a bad theacher and you are a bad driver, but as you know it you just drive lame 50 all the time and never get any problem. Another might me an perfect driver but he drives 200 km/h instead of the 180 he can handle, but neither the theacher nor the driving licence test is wrong.

Hmm not sure if it is understandable what I want to tell.....

Yes, it is very understandable.....an a good point too.

rcm

[Chantal]

When I took my Open water they signed up ALL other class members for Advanced right away - just three more days on the island, they loved it.

When I made my OW, there was one company who told they can do the OW in 2 days, 2 more for the AOW.

Everything together in 4 days. I am still checking if I can find the old email......

It was after I wanted to pay less they offered to make it faster....

Open Water Course over 2 days? Wow this is a breaking of the PADI standards!

[h90]

When I took my Open water they signed up ALL other class members for Advanced right away - just three more days on the island, they loved it.

When I made my OW, there was one company who told they can do the OW in 2 days, 2 more for the AOW.

Everything together in 4 days. I am still checking if I can find the old email......

It was after I wanted to pay less they offered to make it faster....

Open Water Course over 2 days? Wow this is a breaking of the PADI standards!

I was discussing the prices with all companies and one offered me:

Learn the book at home, just fill these review pages.

In the morning making the pool, after that, till evening in the open water.

Next day open water till evening and than fill out the test.

I don't know what Padi tells, but I made than with a other company: learn the book at home, review of the book with theacher at full speed (I really knew every word of the book and made on all tests nearly 100 %, I guess 2 mistakes). After that pool till the sun went down, pool finished.

than 2 days in the open water (4 dives). I think if well trained it must be possible to make these 4 dives on 1 day. But I don't know how much you remember on such a high speed course.

[Plus]

Who cares? You? PADI? The shop?

[h90]

Who cares? You? PADI? The shop?

you reply to who or which posting?

[rcm]

Who cares? You? PADI? The shop?

you reply to who or which posting?

must be a reply to post # 46...

[Plus]

No, to the post directly above:

"...But I don't know how much you remember on such a high speed course."

Who cares? You? PADI? The shop?

Once you are out of the door and back on your plane no one cares how much you remember.

To be fair, according to PADI, you can't dive after six month interval without a refresher course, but I bet you can negotiate that down with many smaller shops here.

[bazmlb]

Once you are out of the door and back on your plane no one cares how much you remember.

To be fair, according to PADI, you can't dive after six month interval without a refresher course, but I bet you can negotiate that down with many smaller shops here.

Most would be concerned if you had done 6 dives and just OW and hadnt dived since, but if you have a few hundred dives logged and havent been wet for a while they wont worry, a good Instructor/Divemaster will pickup a lot of how you act when you get on the boat and set your gear up and would recommend some refresher stuff or at least diving with a DM I would hope as its what I have seen regardless of Shop or Training agency involved.