AleG Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Except if it's the Shinawatra doing it, then it's Democracy in action. No, it was wrong under previous administrations as well. However it is especially wrong and hypocritical when a junta promising reforms commits the same offense. I see the junta defenders and Prayuth fan club have arrived with the standard "but, but, but....Thaksin!" argument. That's understandable, they have no justification for the junta openly practicing nepotism, so they are trying to change the topic. What is wrong and hypocritical is to compare placing relatives in the highest levels of government to taking relatives as aides way down the hierarchy ladder. It's like the difference between appointing your cousin as a driver or technical adviser and appointing your cousin as Foreign Minister doing things like handing a brand new passport when you are a fugitive on the run. Edited February 28, 2015 by AleG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I can understand why they would employee a relative as an aide. The position is simply that. Aiding. If I required an aide and was in the position to choose between a civilian or family member I would chose a family member as well. It is only an aide position. I cannot begin to guess what the position of personal expert means. If it means knowing someone personally then a family member would certainly qualify. If we focus on the expert side of things then it implies having strong qualifications and experience in a specific field. If that was the case and the family member was not an expert in that specific field then by all means it is wrong and shows contempt for the tax payer. So before people jump all over the Junta one must ask the questions "What qualifications is required for a position as an aide and a personal expert"? and "Do the qualifications and experience of the family member justify employment in these positions"? to avoid corruption, by law : No relatives can be emplayed for such any position which is related to the same area of which the gvt official, MP or senator is designed !! The brother of the finance ministor for example will control the finacial welldoing of the financial ministery !! Thailand !! 5555555555555555555555555555555555555555 ...................."The brother of the finance ministor for example will control the finacial welldoing of the financial ministery"............................... You have a vivid imagination. But, if it was up to me I would also outlaw the employing of relatives in government departments, no matter who is in power and how they got there. The Shins would not like it, but too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Cronyism, nepotism and corruption continue. Only know it is different Amarts shoe horning their probably unqualified relatives into power. 'Clean up corruption' might backside. In the words of the late Leonard Nimroy "and so, the cosmic ballet, goes on" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZurf Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I can understand why they would employee a relative as an aide. The position is simply that. Aiding. If I required an aide and was in the position to choose between a civilian or family member I would chose a family member as well. It is only an aide position. I cannot begin to guess what the position of personal expert means. If it means knowing someone personally then a family member would certainly qualify. If we focus on the expert side of things then it implies having strong qualifications and experience in a specific field. If that was the case and the family member was not an expert in that specific field then by all means it is wrong and shows contempt for the tax payer. So before people jump all over the Junta one must ask the questions "What qualifications is required for a position as an aide and a personal expert"? and "Do the qualifications and experience of the family member justify employment in these positions"? Man, talk about giving someone the benefit of doubt!!! Personal expert could mean knowing someone personally?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post brucec64 Posted February 28, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2015 Except if it's the Shinawatra doing it, then it's Democracy in action. No, it was wrong under previous administrations as well. However it is especially wrong and hypocritical when a junta promising reforms commits the same offense. I see the junta defenders and Prayuth fan club have arrived with the standard "but, but, but....Thaksin!" argument. That's understandable, they have no justification for the junta openly practicing nepotism, so they are trying to change the topic. What is wrong and hypocritical is to compare placing relatives in the highest levels of government to taking relatives as aides way down the hierarchy ladder. It's like the difference between appointing your cousin as a driver or technical adviser and appointing your cousin as Foreign Minister doing things like handing a brand new passport when you are a fugitive on the run. You are right. We can always use prayuth ' s brother as an example of placing relatives at the highest level. What is hypocritical is this current junta making all the same moves for which the previous government was vilified. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangebrew Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 No comment it would be "UNETHICAL" for me to comment on this. A word not found in Thai language wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Except if it's the Shinawatra doing it, then it's Democracy in action. No, it was wrong under previous administrations as well. However it is especially wrong and hypocritical when a junta promising reforms commits the same offense. I see the junta defenders and Prayuth fan club have arrived with the standard "but, but, but....Thaksin!" argument. That's understandable, they have no justification for the junta openly practicing nepotism, so they are trying to change the topic. What is wrong and hypocritical is to compare placing relatives in the highest levels of government to taking relatives as aides way down the hierarchy ladder. It's like the difference between appointing your cousin as a driver or technical adviser and appointing your cousin as Foreign Minister doing things like handing a brand new passport when you are a fugitive on the run. You are right. We can always use prayuth ' s brother as an example of placing relatives at the highest level. What is hypocritical is this current junta making all the same moves for which the previous government was vilified. You spared me the need to reply. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post heybruce Posted February 28, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) 15000 baht a month may not seem like a lot to TV posters, but in much of Thailand that is an excellent starting salary. More important, in a country with little in the way of a social safety net, a government job with job security, seniority based salary increases, benefits and retirement, is highly desirable; even those with little potential to benefit from corruption. Of course an aide able to provide or deny access to a government big-shot is in an excellent position to benefit from corruption. I strongly suspect that is still going on, but with censorship and Prayuth refusing calls for investigations of the junta (http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/) we will get very little information about that. I have some young Thai friends, intelligent, ambitious university graduates, who explained that they would only apply to government jobs with a rigorous qualifying exam. It is widely understood that jobs without these exams were reserved for people who had connections or could pay bribes. It has long been that way in Thailand, and it still is that way. I seriously doubt that these relatives had to pass a rigorous qualifying exam. Even people who think the coup was necessary, who believe Prayuth wants to reform Thailand, and who argue that he can't take on all challenges at once, must agree that for the junta to adopt past bad practices with the argument that they are standard practice is wrong. Only a tunnel-vision Prayuth zealot couldn't see that. Edited February 28, 2015 by heybruce 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 15000 baht a month may not seem like a lot to TV posters, but in much of Thailand that is an excellent starting salary. More important, in a country with little in the way of a social safety net, a government job with job security, seniority based salary increases, benefits and retirement, is highly desirable; even those with little potential to benefit from corruption. Of course an aide able to provide or deny access to a government big-shot is in an excellent position to benefit from corruption. I strongly suspect that is still going on, but with censorship and Prayuth refusing calls for investigations of the junta (http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/) we will get very little information about that. I have some young Thai friends, intelligent, ambitious university graduates, who explained that they would only apply to government jobs with a rigorous qualifying exam. It is widely understood that jobs without these exams were reserved for people who had connections or could pay bribes. It has long been that way in Thailand, and it still is that way. I seriously doubt that these relatives had to pass a rigorous qualifying exam. Even people who think the coup was necessary, who believe Prayuth wants to reform Thailand, and who argue that he can't take on all challenges at once, must agree that for the junta to adopt past bad practices with the argument that they are standard practice is wrong. Only a tunnel-vision Prayuth zealot couldn't see that. No No No! It's all Thaksin! He invented corruption! And cronyism! And Neoptism! The honorable general Prayuth appointing his brother to a high position isn't the same! And stop asking him to explain his assets he doesn't NEED to he's the <deleted> Savior! He is incorruptible and can do no wrong! Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartempion Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Hopely you guys understand now why Thai Airways is loosing tons of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Its the same the whole world over. Its the rich what gets the pleasure and the poor what gets the blame................Aint it a bleeding shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasteddie Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Yet Yingluck got sacked for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasteddie Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Corrupt, nepotism, cronyism, scandalous, disgraceful and an insult to the community. The old guard is back and they are worse than ever...and that's saying something. But, but, the reds, blah blah... Over to Rubl & djjamie.. Don't hold your breath, the apologists for the facists are stiil watching the nightly happiness show and regurgitating it every day. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE. Back to anyone who doesn't love the Shin self enriching kleptocracy must be a fascist (note spelling) and support the Junta routine again. The Shins were so anal in their nepotism and cronyism that little sis lost her glorious PM/DM positions because of it. They got carried away and thought they could ignore rules in their quest to fill key positions with family controlled numbties. Many countries around the world seem to tolerate this appalling behavior from their politicians - with wives, children and assorted relatives being paid a salary from tax payers money for services as secretaries, researchers, gofers etc. The UK has had many scandals regarding this and abuse of home allowances. The rules are outdated but politicians wont change them for obvious reasons. It's crap the NLA leader endorses it - but let's not pretend the Shins didn't max it for their family's benefit either. How many little Shins did "auntie poo" have on the payroll? How many Shins and in-laws were receiving some form of state payment? Wonder if Ying's lad was paid for his hi-speed train lunch box design or just got another meddle to add to his already impressive ribbons on his state uniform? Many people see this, and simply accept it as being beyond change - as all the politicians take advantage and wont change it. nobody's saying the shins didn't do it or it isn't prevalent in many countries, the point here is this lot said they'd clean it up. Fat chance! fat pigs at the trough will never share. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Corrupt, nepotism, cronyism, scandalous, disgraceful and an insult to the community. The old guard is back and they are worse than ever...and that's saying something. But, but, the reds, blah blah... Over to Rubl & djjamie.. Don't hold your breath, the apologists for the facists are stiil watching the nightly happiness show and regurgitating it every day. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE. Back to anyone who doesn't love the Shin self enriching kleptocracy must be a fascist (note spelling) and support the Junta routine again. The Shins were so anal in their nepotism and cronyism that little sis lost her glorious PM/DM positions because of it. They got carried away and thought they could ignore rules in their quest to fill key positions with family controlled numbties. Many countries around the world seem to tolerate this appalling behavior from their politicians - with wives, children and assorted relatives being paid a salary from tax payers money for services as secretaries, researchers, gofers etc. The UK has had many scandals regarding this and abuse of home allowances. The rules are outdated but politicians wont change them for obvious reasons. It's crap the NLA leader endorses it - but let's not pretend the Shins didn't max it for their family's benefit either. How many little Shins did "auntie poo" have on the payroll? How many Shins and in-laws were receiving some form of state payment? Wonder if Ying's lad was paid for his hi-speed train lunch box design or just got another meddle to add to his already impressive ribbons on his state uniform? Many people see this, and simply accept it as being beyond change - as all the politicians take advantage and wont change it. nobody's saying the shins didn't do it or it isn't prevalent in many countries, the point here is this lot said they'd clean it up. Fat chance! fat pigs at the trough will never share. That is why things will never change. With the old defence of but the shins did. Defending and accepting it simply because it happened in the past is not going to change what is wrong and makes the current crop just as bad. In 3 years time we will probably hear but The Prayuth government did it and the wheels keep turning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Ease up on the negativity folks. If their working within the guidelines of the public service what can possibly go wrong! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Don't hold your breath, the apologists for the facists are stiil watching the nightly happiness show and regurgitating it every day. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE. Back to anyone who doesn't love the Shin self enriching kleptocracy must be a fascist (note spelling) and support the Junta routine again. The Shins were so anal in their nepotism and cronyism that little sis lost her glorious PM/DM positions because of it. They got carried away and thought they could ignore rules in their quest to fill key positions with family controlled numbties. Many countries around the world seem to tolerate this appalling behavior from their politicians - with wives, children and assorted relatives being paid a salary from tax payers money for services as secretaries, researchers, gofers etc. The UK has had many scandals regarding this and abuse of home allowances. The rules are outdated but politicians wont change them for obvious reasons. It's crap the NLA leader endorses it - but let's not pretend the Shins didn't max it for their family's benefit either. How many little Shins did "auntie poo" have on the payroll? How many Shins and in-laws were receiving some form of state payment? Wonder if Ying's lad was paid for his hi-speed train lunch box design or just got another meddle to add to his already impressive ribbons on his state uniform? Many people see this, and simply accept it as being beyond change - as all the politicians take advantage and wont change it. The standard defence "but, but, but the Shins did it also" Wasn't the whole pretense for the coup that nepotism and corrupt practices would be stopped? Doesn't that hold this group to a higher standard? And yet, every time this government gets caught out doing the same corrupt practices as the last, all we hear is "but, but, but the Shins did it before". And every time the Shin's get caught we heard "but,but Suthep,,,,," The main difference being the Shins are openly led by a convicted criminal fugitive - who was not elected. I make it clear in my post how vile the nepotism, cronyism and corruption is - where ever and who ever. Do you accept the appalling situation before, where a convicted criminal was selecting cabinet members, senior policemen from within his family and cronies? My Chinese friends and colleagues laugh about us Westerners ranting on about democracy. They say where a country is dominated by ethnic Chinese this will always happen - get family, in-laws and close friends into key positions to control information and decisions. I'm sure you don't believe the coup was simply about nepotism and corruption, or even preventing the murderous attacks the Shin regime did nothing about, do you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 15000 baht a month may not seem like a lot to TV posters, but in much of Thailand that is an excellent starting salary. More important, in a country with little in the way of a social safety net, a government job with job security, seniority based salary increases, benefits and retirement, is highly desirable; even those with little potential to benefit from corruption. Of course an aide able to provide or deny access to a government big-shot is in an excellent position to benefit from corruption. I strongly suspect that is still going on, but with censorship and Prayuth refusing calls for investigations of the junta (http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/) we will get very little information about that. I have some young Thai friends, intelligent, ambitious university graduates, who explained that they would only apply to government jobs with a rigorous qualifying exam. It is widely understood that jobs without these exams were reserved for people who had connections or could pay bribes. It has long been that way in Thailand, and it still is that way. I seriously doubt that these relatives had to pass a rigorous qualifying exam. Even people who think the coup was necessary, who believe Prayuth wants to reform Thailand, and who argue that he can't take on all challenges at once, must agree that for the junta to adopt past bad practices with the argument that they are standard practice is wrong. Only a tunnel-vision Prayuth zealot couldn't see that. Cue the usual suspects once the sun is over the yardarm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Corrupt, nepotism, cronyism, scandalous, disgraceful and an insult to the community. The old guard is back and they are worse than ever...and that's saying something. But, but, the reds, blah blah... Over to Rubl & djjamie.. Don't hold your breath, the apologists for the facists are stiil watching the nightly happiness show and regurgitating it every day. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE. Back to anyone who doesn't love the Shin self enriching kleptocracy must be a fascist (note spelling) and support the Junta routine again. The Shins were so anal in their nepotism and cronyism that little sis lost her glorious PM/DM positions because of it. They got carried away and thought they could ignore rules in their quest to fill key positions with family controlled numbties. Many countries around the world seem to tolerate this appalling behavior from their politicians - with wives, children and assorted relatives being paid a salary from tax payers money for services as secretaries, researchers, gofers etc. The UK has had many scandals regarding this and abuse of home allowances. The rules are outdated but politicians wont change them for obvious reasons. It's crap the NLA leader endorses it - but let's not pretend the Shins didn't max it for their family's benefit either. How many little Shins did "auntie poo" have on the payroll? How many Shins and in-laws were receiving some form of state payment? Wonder if Ying's lad was paid for his hi-speed train lunch box design or just got another meddle to add to his already impressive ribbons on his state uniform? Many people see this, and simply accept it as being beyond change - as all the politicians take advantage and wont change it. nobody's saying the shins didn't do it or it isn't prevalent in many countries, the point here is this lot said they'd clean it up. Fat chance! fat pigs at the trough will never share. That is why things will never change. With the old defence of but the shins did. Defending and accepting it simply because it happened in the past is not going to change what is wrong and makes the current crop just as bad. In 3 years time we will probably hear but The Prayuth government did it and the wheels keep turning And that's because most people think it can't be changed - and the total lack of punishment and accountability for those who benefited the most, whichever party they claim to belong to, reinforces that idea. So if you want to start, you've got to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post billd766 Posted March 1, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2015 Oh, I just can't be bothered to comment, it's just wall to wall hypocrisy with this bunch of ................................. Did you object when Thaksin appointed Yingluck to be the PM when she had NO political experience, or Surapon as Foreign Minister or even further back when he got his cousin promoted by jumping him three ranks in the Army? You are correct though, it is wall to wall hypocracy and you are one of the greater exponents both now and in your former TVF lives. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manhood Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yes thats just nepotism: and personal experts?????????????????????????? if you need an expert you go to a person WHO is an expert and not only relying on the money they get from "Uncle"..... So this is another way of corruption you can see everywhere...lucky we have laws now in Germany against supporting nepotism and its good that way! Ok Thailand needs a long way to go for that as even we in Germany took a long way to have this as a crime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Oh, I just can't be bothered to comment, it's just wall to wall hypocrisy with this bunch of ................................. Did you object when Thaksin appointed Yingluck to be the PM when she had NO political experience, or Surapon as Foreign Minister or even further back when he got his cousin promoted by jumping him three ranks in the Army? You are correct though, it is wall to wall hypocracy and you are one of the greater exponents both now and in your former TVF lives. More lives than a cat ! Meeowwwwww ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yet Yingluck got sacked for it! When did Thaksin sack Yingluck? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Yes the junta enthusiasts are here in force now with the standard argument--"Ignore the OP, let's talk about Thaksin!" Edited March 1, 2015 by heybruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yes the junta enthusiasts are here in force now with the standard argument--"Ignore the OP, let's talk about Thaksin!" Is fast Eddie a junta enthusiast ?? Wow I didn't know. Personally if the people have the required credentials I don't see a problem. If they are employed doing nothing then obviously a problem. It does happen all over the world in all governments so most of you are blathering just because it's this government! Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasteddie Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yet Yingluck got sacked for it! When did Thaksin sack Yingluck? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yes the junta enthusiasts are here in force now with the standard argument--"Ignore the OP, let's talk about Thaksin!" Is fast Eddie a junta enthusiast ?? Wow I didn't know. Personally if the people have the required credentials I don't see a problem. If they are employed doing nothing then obviously a problem. It does happen all over the world in all governments so most of you are blathering just because it's this government! Fair enough. I think the point here is that people were foaming at the mouth when the Shinwatra clan did it, and many accusations were thrown their way (rightly IMO) cos of it. Just seems a tad hypocritical to spout about rooting out corruption/cronyism then just going and doing it anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPratt Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 You would think after all the allegations being banded about that they would have the gall to admit that. Families profiting from the demise of democracy , pigs with their snouts in the trough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yet Yingluck got sacked for it!When did Thaksin sack Yingluck? What? Well generally only an employer can sack somebody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Yes the junta enthusiasts are here in force now with the standard argument--"Ignore the OP, let's talk about Thaksin!" Is fast Eddie a junta enthusiast ?? Wow I didn't know. Personally if the people have the required credentials I don't see a problem. If they are employed doing nothing then obviously a problem. It does happen all over the world in all governments so most of you are blathering just because it's this government! Fair enough. I was in the USAF for twenty years, worked with many government people and offices, and can't think of a single instance of this happening I vaguely recall a sheriff in Bernalillo County New Mexico in the 1980's who tried to hire his wife for some position and who got in a lot of trouble for it. That's the closest I can come up with. In the US military attempting something like this would be a clear violation of conflict of interest regulations and a career killer. Of course I'm sure you wouldn't post "It does happen all over the world in all governments..." without being able to provide examples. So, your examples are...? Edited March 1, 2015 by heybruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yes the junta enthusiasts are here in force now with the standard argument--"Ignore the OP, let's talk about Thaksin!"Is fast Eddie a junta enthusiast ?? Wow I didn't know.Personally if the people have the required credentials I don't see a problem. If they are employed doing nothing then obviously a problem. It does happen all over the world in all governments so most of you are blathering just because it's this government! Fair enough. I was in the USAF for twenty years, worked with many government people and offices, and can't think of a single instance of this happening I vaguely recall a sheriff in Bernalillo County New Mexico in the 1980's who tried to hire his wife for some position and who got in a lot of trouble for it. That's the closest I can come up with. In the US military attempting something like this would be a clear violation of conflict of interest regulations and a career killer. Of course I'm sure you wouldn't post "It does happen all over the world in all governments..." without being able to provide examples. So, your examples are...? We are not talking about military we are talking about politicians and politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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