Newbie rental question - re. one month rent in advance at start of agreement

[mattk1]

Hey guys,

This is a bit of a total newbie rental question but I would just like to ask on here for clarification.

When I moved into my apartment 11 months ago, I paid 6,300 Baht deposit plus one month's rent at 4,300.

I have just given my one month notice to the landlord so am I right to believe that I will not pay any rent (only the bills) for this final month?

I almost forgot I paid the month up front until I dug out the tenancy agreement, else I would have stupidly handed over another 4,300 on my way out.

Like I said, total newbie question, I've never rented anywhere before this apartment so I'm not experienced.

Cheers and thanks for any help. :-)

[manchesterlalala]

The answer to that question would normally be answered by the term in the contract relating to repayment of the deposit. However, I'm going to make a guess – based on the low value of rent you pay, and the fact that you are asking this question – that you didn't sign a rental agreement?

The idea of the deposit being retained by the landlord in lieu of the final month's rent is one of which have I heard a lot. I have rented lots of accommodation all over Thailand and S.E. Asia over the past 6 years, and I can only say from personal exerience that this has never happened to me: I only ever got the deposit back on or after the day I left the property. In other words, I have always had to pay the final month's rent.

Of course, the simple answer is to just ask the landlord

[Andyfez]

A deposit is deposit, rent is rent.

You still need to pay the rent as normal, and you get the deposit back when you have been checked out.

[rickb]

What I'm used to seeing when renting in Thailand is the renter paying the first month's rent up front along with a security deposit, the same as you did. The rental agreement should state how long you must stay in the rental property in order to be entitled to the security deposit being returned, at the conclusion of the rental period. Of course, should there be some damage to the property or some water or electric bills unpaid, all or a portion of the security deposit could be retained by the landlord. Or, if you vacate the property before the stated period of time, you will forfeit the security deposit to the landlord. After staying in the rental property for one month, you are obligated to pay up front for the second month's rent along with payment for the water and electricity you used during the first month. This should be repeated at the end of each month. Therefore, along with the notice of your intent to move out in one month, you should pay the final month's rent. However, it is not uncommon to reach agreement with the landlord that a portion of the security deposit can be used for the final month's rent. But, in my opinion, that decision is solely up to the landlord and shouldn't just be assumed by you as being acceptable, without talking to the landlord.

[dotpoom]

I rent out the occasional room to tenants. Their deposit is to cover any damage they might cause....if no damage has been done they get their deposit back. (normal wear and tear is not considered damage) Their one month's rent in advance is exactly what it says, so the final month is already paid for. It's not in any way complicated. ...Of course there are possibly a few unscrupulous landlords who will try to hold onto your deposit but that is a horse of a different color and a different topic.

PS. I'm surprised that you were going to pay a month's rent upon leaving before you realized you had paid one in advance....what did you think your deposit was for? Did you not think you could have paid it out of that. It suggests too me that you thought the deposit was the landlord's to keep.? No...it is only to cover possible damages. Good Luck anyway, hope it all goes smooth for you.

Edited March 2, 2015 by dotpoom

[business guru]

help needed please

here is my latest experience

rented high end condo at the river Bangkok

they wanted 50,000 bth a month but said i would pay 40,000 in advance every 6 months plus 2 months bond 80,000

paid first 6 months 240,000 plus the 80,000 plus asked if i could send a bit extra for my own bills water electricity wifi cable tv

so i sent extra 30.000 which they returned to me so far so good and gave offical reciepts with in few days

next payment was due in october this time my team sent rent and extra 31,000 for me for my expenses

this time i ask for extra money and recipts 8 times over 4 weeks sorry have not heard from uk owner

so i send my thai girlfriend to talk comes back with typed reciept for 240.ooo only not on company letter head

and a copy of email from owner who is on holidays in mexico and will return my money 31,000 in febuary when he returns to thailand

lucky me

as i travel a lot all over asia i sublease my condo to cover some of the rent ido this in 4 other asian countries with no issues so far

the real estate people keep my key at reception and give my tenant from airbnb the keys and tenant leaves key on check out

then realestate arange to clean

image my surprise last week while in manila with thai girlfriend having holiday when i get email

from realestate saying owner has come back and locked me out with five weeks rent pre paid still to go

and will be keeping my 80,000 bond and my 31.000 and the 5 weeks rent will not quite cover damages to unit (total bull)

and i have 48 hours to pick up my belongings

it seems i was not allowed to sub lease ok i accept that why did agent say i could but now of course denys that

also why did the give out and recieve my key and arrange cleaning

they will not give me the owners email or contact details and he is hiding behind agent

hoping some one here might have some ideas my next move

i have got all my things back all just thrown in garbage bags and dumped in empty unit

a talk with management tells me hi end condo subleasing not allowed

but at least 8 on airbnb today

where can i get help media ???

in our country would not happen but we are in thailand but some uk boy is playing me for a fool

can any of the old hands here give me some ideas

i am 67 and travel all over asia and will not let this one rest

Edited March 2, 2015 by business guru

[mike324]

If you payed for one months rent in advance, then you still have to pay the last months rent. Unless forgot about the "1 month rent in advance" and pay the 1st month rent again at the end of the month you moved in. Then you would have been paying 1 month rent in advance every month, and no longer need to pay the last months rent.

Security deposit has nothing to do with your rent, its use to deduct your water/electricity/cable bills if you move out and did not pay it. Its best you get all things cleared up and show proof of payment to the landlord so they will release your security deposit. I have heard of many cases where landlords don't want to give the deposit back, but then there are also cases where land lord has to delay it because electricity/cable/ and water bill for the last month has not been payed when the tenant moves out, tenant did not pay because they did not get their bill yet or they did not go close the account it themselves.

Edited March 2, 2015 by mike324

[Mr Wonderful]

help needed please

here is my latest experience

rented high end condo at the river Bangkok

they wanted 50,000 bth a month but said i would pay 40,000 in advance every 6 months plus 2 months bond 80,000

paid first 6 months 240,000 plus the 80,000 plus asked if i could send a bit extra for my own bills water electricity wifi cable tv

so i sent extra 30.000 which they returned to me so far so good and gave offical reciepts with in few days

next payment was due in october this time my team sent rent and extra 31,000 for me for my expenses

this time i ask for extra money and recipts 8 times over 4 weeks sorry have not heard from uk owner

so i send my thai girlfriend to talk comes back with typed reciept for 240.ooo only not on company letter head

and a copy of email from owner who is on holidays in mexico and will return my money 31,000 in febuary when he returns to thailand

lucky me

as i travel a lot all over asia i sublease my condo to cover some of the rent ido this in 4 other asian countries with no issues so far

the real estate people keep my key at reception and give my tenant from airbnb the keys and tenant leaves key on check out

then realestate arange to clean

image my surprise last week while in manila with thai girlfriend having holiday when i get email

from realestate saying owner has come back and locked me out with five weeks rent pre paid still to go

and will be keeping my 80,000 bond and my 31.000 and the 5 weeks rent will not quite cover damages to unit (total bull)

and i have 48 hours to pick up my belongings

it seems i was not allowed to sub lease ok i accept that why did agent say i could but now of course denys that

also why did the give out and recieve my key and arrange cleaning

they will not give me the owners email or contact details and he is hiding behind agent

hoping some one here might have some ideas my next move

i have got all my things back all just thrown in garbage bags and dumped in empty unit

a talk with management tells me hi end condo subleasing not allowed

but at least 8 on airbnb today

where can i get help media ???

in our country would not happen but we are in thailand but some uk boy is playing me for a fool

can any of the old hands here give me some ideas

i am 67 and travel all over asia and will not let this one rest

This seems to be a real mess. A recent prospective tenant insisted on having proof of ownership (Juristic person invoice to my name was ok) before handing over the two month security and first month rent.

Sorry to hear this happened to you. If i had a unt available right now, I would certainly love to welcome you as tenant. If you are still looking to rent in July please contact me at IDLogica at gmail.

It doesn't seem fair and I am not sure it's worth the investment in lawyer fees. But you can certainly lodge a police complaint.

[mike324]

here is my latest experience

rented high end condo at the river Bangkok

they wanted 50,000 bth a month but said i would pay 40,000 in advance every 6 months plus 2 months bond 80,000

paid first 6 months 240,000 plus the 80,000 plus asked if i could send a bit extra for my own bills water electricity wifi cable tv

so i sent extra 30.000 which they returned to me so far so good and gave offical reciepts with in few days

next payment was due in october this time my team sent rent and extra 31,000 for me for my expenses

this time i ask for extra money and recipts 8 times over 4 weeks sorry have not heard from uk owner

so i send my thai girlfriend to talk comes back with typed reciept for 240.ooo only not on company letter head

and a copy of email from owner who is on holidays in mexico and will return my money 31,000 in febuary when he returns to thailand

lucky me

as i travel a lot all over asia i sublease my condo to cover some of the rent ido this in 4 other asian countries with no issues so far

the real estate people keep my key at reception and give my tenant from airbnb the keys and tenant leaves key on check out

then realestate arange to clean

image my surprise last week while in manila with thai girlfriend having holiday when i get email

from realestate saying owner has come back and locked me out with five weeks rent pre paid still to go

and will be keeping my 80,000 bond and my 31.000 and the 5 weeks rent will not quite cover damages to unit (total bull)

and i have 48 hours to pick up my belongings

it seems i was not allowed to sub lease ok i accept that why did agent say i could but now of course denys that

also why did the give out and recieve my key and arrange cleaning

they will not give me the owners email or contact details and he is hiding behind agent

hoping some one here might have some ideas my next move

i have got all my things back all just thrown in garbage bags and dumped in empty unit

a talk with seniour management tells mr hi end condo subleasing not allowed

but at least 8 on airbnb today

where can i get help media ???

in our contry would not hapen but we are in thailand but some uk boy is playing me for a fool

You got shafted by the agent, he/she was trying to make extra income before getting caught by the owner or someone at the management office didn't get their share of the commission for helping.

Subleasing is not allowed for majority of condos in Bangkok. You are more likely to get away with it at low end condos. You broke the contract so don't even bother contacting media, you will just look silly yourself. Try getting the owner info from the juristic office at the river condo, most will give it to you unless they are being an ass also. Your best option is to talk to the owner nicely and have him/her return part of the money minus the deposit for breaking the contract. You can argue that in the contract it states that you will forfeit the deposit if you break it, not the rent you prepaid in advance. Hence he/she has to return your rent out of good will.

Look in your contract, there should be a clause saying owner needs to notify you before going into your unit with your consent. Check to see if the contract says "no subleasing", if not then you can blame the agent for saying you could. Talk nicely to everyone and keep a cool head. Last resort is to get a lawyer.

Is the agent from a real estate company or freelance?

Edited March 2, 2015 by mike324

[business guru]

here is my latest experience

rented high end condo at the river Bangkok

they wanted 50,000 bth a month but said i would pay 40,000 in advance every 6 months plus 2 months bond 80,000

paid first 6 months 240,000 plus the 80,000 plus asked if i could send a bit extra for my own bills water electricity wifi cable tv

so i sent extra 30.000 which they returned to me so far so good and gave offical reciepts with in few days

next payment was due in october this time my team sent rent and extra 31,000 for me for my expenses

this time i ask for extra money and recipts 8 times over 4 weeks sorry have not heard from uk owner

so i send my thai girlfriend to talk comes back with typed reciept for 240.ooo only not on company letter head

and a copy of email from owner who is on holidays in mexico and will return my money 31,000 in febuary when he returns to thailand

lucky me

as i travel a lot all over asia i sublease my condo to cover some of the rent ido this in 4 other asian countries with no issues so far

the real estate people keep my key at reception and give my tenant from airbnb the keys and tenant leaves key on check out

then realestate arange to clean

image my surprise last week while in manila with thai girlfriend having holiday when i get email

from realestate saying owner has come back and locked me out with five weeks rent pre paid still to go

and will be keeping my 80,000 bond and my 31.000 and the 5 weeks rent will not quite cover damages to unit (total bull)

and i have 48 hours to pick up my belongings

it seems i was not allowed to sub lease ok i accept that why did agent say i could but now of course denys that

also why did the give out and recieve my key and arrange cleaning

they will not give me the owners email or contact details and he is hiding behind agent

hoping some one here might have some ideas my next move

i have got all my things back all just thrown in garbage bags and dumped in empty unit

a talk with seniour management tells mr hi end condo subleasing not allowed

but at least 8 on airbnb today

where can i get help media ???

in our contry would not hapen but we are in thailand but some uk boy is playing me for a fool

You got shafted by the agent, he/she was trying to make extra income before getting caught by the owner or someone at the management office didn't get their share of the commission for helping.

Subleasing is not allowed for majority of condos in Bangkok. You are more likely to get away with it at low end condos. You broke the contract so don't even bother contacting media, you will just look silly yourself. Try getting the owner info from the juristic office at the river condo. Your best option is to talk to the owner nicely and have him/her return part of the money minus the deposit for breaking the contract.

Look in your contract, there should be a clause saying owner needs to notify you before going into your unit with your consent. If that is not in your contract, you don't have much to argue with.

[ToddinChonburi]

No first read your LEASE, If it says you paid first and last months rent, thats what you did. Damage deposit is different . READ YOUR LEASE !!!

Any ? call your landlord or talk to office staff. Many farangs get charged first and last month just in case you skip out early.

[toenail]

I would say do not pay the last month's rent since the owner has your deposit and downpayment. I work near Pattaya and in ten years I have rented four different condos. The first place required one month deposit and I went ahead and paid the last month, thinking I would get my deposit back. I left the small one bedroom apartment in tip top shape (certainly the windows were a lot clearner out side and inside than when I moved in). The owner kept half of the deposit making an excuse that since I had drilled holes into the walls for wall hangings, he would have to spend money to repair the walls. -Note: the maintenance department drilled the small holes for me.) I was shocked about this charge since I never received a list from the Bangkok owner that I could not dirll holes on the wall to hang picture. I figured it was a way for him to make some extra cash. Two years later, a friend of mine rented the same apartment and the hooks that were to be used for wall hangings were still there and he was glad there was a place to hang his couple paintings. The Chinese-Thai owner never "repaired" the four holes with hooks.

The third place I lived in was three years and was more expensive. The sea view condo had two bedrooms/ two baths and a kitchenette. The rent was quite expensive so when I walked in and saw that the Thai-Chinese owner had changed the furnished apartment with some of her hotel's reject worn-out furniture, I had to put up a fuss about how unethical it was to change furniture after I had seen it. A couple years later when I got ready to move out, I cleaned the inside of every drawer and cabinet; cleaned the oven and refrigerator; I repainted the balcony wall since it looked a bit soiled from my potted plants; I washed the inside and outside of the windows. My close Thai buddy asked why I was spending so much time cleaning the place into perfect condition. I said that I wanted to get my 42,000 baht deposit back (for two months). He said, "You won't get it back." I asked why and he said because of the owner's ethnic background. He was correct. She made an excuse about the curtains needing to be dry cleaned (I never used the curtains and after two years maybe they did need cleaning -- not my fault. An interior glass ceiling light cover was broken when one of the apartment maintenance men broke it when putting in a new light bulb when the whole two years I never used the ceiling light. I was being "nice" and having it work before I left. What a nasty, dishonest woman.

Apartment or condo owners here are not the same as in the West. They do not appreciate that the apartment is left clean. They just want to keep your deposit.

[wump]

It happened to me a few times that the first month's rent 'in advance' is really being treated as part of the deposit, so technically they treat the rent you pay as always for the previous month. So I guess they will still make you pay for the last month, but then you should also get an extra month's rent back as part of your deposit.

[mattk1]

Ok guys excellent and thanks for all the advice

For the new house i'm moving into I have not signed any contract, nor is there going to be, just a receipt fro the landlady for 6,000 deposit plus one month rent up front, so by my understanding when I give notice to my new house I will have already paid the final month's rent and should just expect my deposit back.

[recom273]

To answer the op .. Speak to the manager, sometimes they won't expect you to pay the last months rent, as you have already pre-paid a month in advance.

[mattk1]

Thanks recom273, that's what I need to confirm with the new landlady. It would make sense as like you say, I have already paid a month in advance before ever living there so I can consider that my final month rent when I decide to move out..

[SoiBiker]

You pay the last month rent in advance, same as you do every other month.

You don't pay at the end of the month, so you don't pay anything at the end of the last month.