Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

[berybert]

_{jd 60 witnesses for the prosecution. Any reason none of these 60 people didn't come forward in the days after the crime ?}

_{If Sean who is not a suspect and has the bottle to come forward for the defense he would be one of maybe 5 or 6 people who actually knew what went on.}

[jdinasia]

_{jd 60 witnesses for the prosecution. Any reason none of these 60 people didn't come forward in the days after the crime ?}

_{If Sean who is not a suspect and has the bottle to come forward for the defense he would be one of maybe 5 or 6 people who actually knew what went on.}

Witnesses are not necessarily eyewitnesses. They are people who can testify to individual events. The defense has witnesses as well.

Sean would be useless as a witness for either side. He made public statements after leaving the island that he does not know what happened.

Edited March 25, 2015 by jdinasia

[berybert]

_{jd 60 witnesses for the prosecution. Any reason none of these 60 people didn't come forward in the days after the crime ?}

_{If Sean who is not a suspect and has the bottle to come forward for the defense he would be one of maybe 5 or 6 people who actually knew what went on.}

Witnesses are not necessarily eyewitnesses. They are people who can testify to individual events. The defense has witnesses as well.

Sean would be useless as a witness for either side. He made public statements after leaving the island that he does not know what happened.

Funny enough the 2 Burmese said they do know what happened like Sean. So case over ?

[jdinasia]

_{jd 60 witnesses for the prosecution. Any reason none of these 60 people didn't come forward in the days after the crime ?}

_{If Sean who is not a suspect and has the bottle to come forward for the defense he would be one of maybe 5 or 6 people who actually knew what went on.}

Witnesses are not necessarily eyewitnesses. They are people who can testify to individual events. The defense has witnesses as well.

Sean would be useless as a witness for either side. He made public statements after leaving the island that he does not know what happened.

Funny enough the 2 Burmese said they do know what happened like Sean. So case over ?

I have no idea what you are trying to say there.

[jdinasia]

You keep harping on about social media. I seem to recall plenty of main stream Thai T.V. news shows comment on the case. And many of them asking the same questions we have asked and not getting any answers either.

Strangely, nothing about the claims that someone was not in BKK. A seemingly easy thing to prove.... But nothing. Furniture? Nothing. Classmates? Nothing.

All of those things were just the conspiracy theories posted on csila....

With such high stakes (a young man and/or his uncle facing possible execution if found guilty), it would not be surprising if rich people connected to the prime suspects (at the time) would do anything they can to shield their family members. The first thing that would go out the window is TRUTH. Immediately after, the family goes into emergency mode. In Thailand (and many other countries), a lot can be done with lots of money paid to the right people. Similarly, a lot of leverage can be exerted with threats of harm or death. I'm not saying those things happened for a fact, it's just that looking reasonably at dozens of prior Thai cases with similar circumstances (the son of an important and rich Thai person facing dire troubles), it's par for the course. I'm predicating what I mention with the fact that Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation, ....then miraculously, in a Bangkok minute, they're of no interest to investigators. Poof - magic! Almost like they ceased to exist, and were completely cleared, no involvement on any level - all of a sudden.

Then I would think that once -- poof! magic! -- such wealthy persons were cleared, if only temporarily, they would all of sudden find reason that they would be pursuing for an extended period of time the family business interests in Hong Kong or France or some other venue without an extradition treaty with Thailand in the event that this summer the entire case against the 2 Burmese scapegoats blows up in the orchestrating family's face.

Well the rumor mongering machine certainly tried to circulate that premise... Kinda... With the rumor of someone heading off to Australia. It was just more nonsense from csila.

[berybert]

_{jd 60 witnesses for the prosecution. Any reason none of these 60 people didn't come forward in the days after the crime ?}

_{If Sean who is not a suspect and has the bottle to come forward for the defense he would be one of maybe 5 or 6 people who actually knew what went on.}

Witnesses are not necessarily eyewitnesses. They are people who can testify to individual events. The defense has witnesses as well.

Sean would be useless as a witness for either side. He made public statements after leaving the island that he does not know what happened.

Funny enough the 2 Burmese said they do know what happened like Sean. So case over ?

I have no idea what you are trying to say there.

Funny enough the 2 Burmese said they do not know what happened either ............ Oops.

[jdinasia]

_{jd 60 witnesses for the prosecution. Any reason none of these 60 people didn't come forward in the days after the crime ?}

_{If Sean who is not a suspect and has the bottle to come forward for the defense he would be one of maybe 5 or 6 people who actually knew what went on.}

Witnesses are not necessarily eyewitnesses. They are people who can testify to individual events. The defense has witnesses as well.

Sean would be useless as a witness for either side. He made public statements after leaving the island that he does not know what happened.

Funny enough the 2 Burmese said they do know what happened like Sean. So case over ?

I have no idea what you are trying to say there.

Funny enough the 2 Burmese said they do not know what happened either ............ Oops.

They said they were drunk and....

They also self-incriminated on numerous occasions.

I hope that the defense calls them to testify but it is not a foregone conclusion that they will testify.

[berybert]

They said they were so drunk they didn't know what was going on. Have you even seen someone so drunk they don't know what they are doing ?

Most wouldn't be able to swing a hoe, let alone hit anyone with it.

They hit two people, managed to get hard on,Both managed to cum, both managed to get home without being seen by anyone, both managed to be blood free at 5am when Muang Muang got home.

I wish I could hold my beer like a 4 foot 10 Burmese. Legends.

[jdinasia]

They said they were so drunk they didn't know what was going on. Have you even seen someone so drunk they don't know what they are doing ?

Most wouldn't be able to swing a hoe, let alone hit anyone with it.

They hit two people, managed to get hard on,Both managed to cum, both managed to get home without being seen by anyone, both managed to be blood free at 5am when Muang Muang got home.

I wish I could hold my beer like a 4 foot 10 Burmese. Legends.

Didn't they also say that they only shared 3 beers over several hours? The "I was so drunk" story is about as believable as when a frat boy says the same thing after an intimate evening with one of his frat brothers.

Didn't they also say that they did rape and murder Hannah, and murder David? (ignore the signed confessions and just consider the HRC commissioner and the lawyer)...

[berybert]

They said they were so drunk they didn't know what was going on. Have you even seen someone so drunk they don't know what they are doing ?

Most wouldn't be able to swing a hoe, let alone hit anyone with it.

They hit two people, managed to get hard on,Both managed to cum, both managed to get home without being seen by anyone, both managed to be blood free at 5am when Muang Muang got home.

I wish I could hold my beer like a 4 foot 10 Burmese. Legends.

Didn't they also say that they only shared 3 beers over several hours? The "I was so drunk" story is about as believable as when a frat boy says the same thing after an intimate evening with one of his frat brothers.

Didn't they also say that they did rape and murder Hannah, and murder David? (ignore the signed confessions and just consider the HRC commissioner and the lawyer)...

Yeah but that just takes us back to the torture claims and pictures of people with burnt arm pits.

Not really interested in all that again.

As it happens the 3 bottles of beer they shared, what ever happened to those bottles ? Maybe they put them in the bin like good law abiding citizens before deciding on a double murder.

Edited March 25, 2015 by berybert

[bannork]

3 bottles of beer shared among 3 young men over several hours and they claimed they were too drunk to know what happened that night.

They're hiding something, either several more bottles of beer or what actually happened that night.

[boomerangutang]

With such high stakes (a young man and/or his uncle facing possible execution if found guilty), it would not be surprising if rich people connected to the prime suspects (at the time) would do anything they can to shield their family members. The first thing that would go out the window is TRUTH. Immediately after, the family goes into emergency mode. In Thailand (and many other countries), a lot can be done with lots of money paid to the right people. Similarly, a lot of leverage can be exerted with threats of harm or death. I'm not saying those things happened for a fact, it's just that looking reasonably at dozens of prior Thai cases with similar circumstances (the son of an important and rich Thai person facing dire troubles), it's par for the course. I'm predicating what I mention with the fact that Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation, ....then miraculously, in a Bangkok minute, they're of no interest to investigators. Poof - magic! Almost like they ceased to exist, and were completely cleared, no involvement on any level - all of a sudden.

Then I would think that once -- poof! magic! -- such wealthy persons were cleared, if only temporarily, they would all of sudden find reason that they would be pursuing for an extended period of time the family business interests in Hong Kong or France or some other venue without an extradition treaty with Thailand in the event that this summer the entire case against the 2 Burmese scapegoats blows up in the orchestrating family's face.

The fantasies of some people never end. Miraculously, when suspects are no longer suspects.... They are not suspects. Sean. -- not a suspect. Ware--- not a suspect Nomsod --- not a suspect Mon --- not a suspect

The first Burmese guys -- not suspects.

Boomerangutang claimed first (and for a long time) that the direction of the investigation suddenly changed when Gen Panya was promoted. It was in the news a week before the promotion but... Even today he was saying a junior officer made the statement that prior suspects had been excluded (and why) even though it was announced on the 25th of September. He was still asking about Mon when the same article from September 25th stated clearly that he was excluded and why. It is simply defamation to keep going back to things like this, but hey.....

Note -- no mention of the long but not exhaustive list of people who would have to be in on a conspiracy theory like the one presented here : either directly or complicitly

AleG put forth a claim that it was someone other than Panya who who announced Nomsod was cleared. Either way, it's not that big a deal. The big deal is that Nomsod, after evading police for a week, was cleared so quickly, by using such a paltry and questionable 'alibi.' And, just for the fun of it, RTP excused the other prime suspect, Mon, just as quickly (for what reasons?). Jdinasia conveniently ignores all the evidence which might implicate Nomsod and/or Mon, and finds one little non-issue (who made the announcement about something) and try to blow that up as the only issue. There are a slew of more important issues which neither jdinasia, AleG nor the RTP can begin to address (except with denials), because those issues may reveal the RTP are shielding the people who should still be prime suspects. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Let's see what happens in the trial, and hope it's not as terribly lopsided as many suspect it will be - with the full force of Thai officialdom coming down fanatically on one side of the issue.

As for Sean: I don't think anyone seriously thinks he was one of the criminals. However, it's quite possible he was either a witness or knows some key clues about the crime. RTP don't want anything to do with Sean, because Sean may spill the beans and implicate the people the RTP are trying to shield. Why else escort Sean out of the country so quickly? ....never to be seen or heard from again.

[jdinasia]

You have no idea what went into his being cleared. You are basing your assumption on a statement and a photo provided by a lawyer to the press.

Contrary to your claim about Sean, he was heard from again. Why lie about that?

[AleG]

With such high stakes (a young man and/or his uncle facing possible execution if found guilty), it would not be surprising if rich people connected to the prime suspects (at the time) would do anything they can to shield their family members. The first thing that would go out the window is TRUTH. Immediately after, the family goes into emergency mode. In Thailand (and many other countries), a lot can be done with lots of money paid to the right people. Similarly, a lot of leverage can be exerted with threats of harm or death. I'm not saying those things happened for a fact, it's just that looking reasonably at dozens of prior Thai cases with similar circumstances (the son of an important and rich Thai person facing dire troubles), it's par for the course. I'm predicating what I mention with the fact that Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation, ....then miraculously, in a Bangkok minute, they're of no interest to investigators. Poof - magic! Almost like they ceased to exist, and were completely cleared, no involvement on any level - all of a sudden.

Then I would think that once -- poof! magic! -- such wealthy persons were cleared, if only temporarily, they would all of sudden find reason that they would be pursuing for an extended period of time the family business interests in Hong Kong or France or some other venue without an extradition treaty with Thailand in the event that this summer the entire case against the 2 Burmese scapegoats blows up in the orchestrating family's face.

The fantasies of some people never end. Miraculously, when suspects are no longer suspects.... They are not suspects. Sean. -- not a suspect. Ware--- not a suspect Nomsod --- not a suspect Mon --- not a suspect

The first Burmese guys -- not suspects.

Boomerangutang claimed first (and for a long time) that the direction of the investigation suddenly changed when Gen Panya was promoted. It was in the news a week before the promotion but... Even today he was saying a junior officer made the statement that prior suspects had been excluded (and why) even though it was announced on the 25th of September. He was still asking about Mon when the same article from September 25th stated clearly that he was excluded and why. It is simply defamation to keep going back to things like this, but hey.....

Note -- no mention of the long but not exhaustive list of people who would have to be in on a conspiracy theory like the one presented here : either directly or complicitly

AleG put forth a claim that it was someone other than Panya who who announced Nomsod was cleared. Either way, it's not that big a deal. The big deal is that Nomsod, after evading police for a week, was cleared so quickly, by using such a paltry and questionable 'alibi.' And, just for the fun of it, RTP excused the other prime suspect, Mon, just as quickly (for what reasons?). Jdinasia conveniently ignores all the evidence which might implicate Nomsod and/or Mon, and finds one little non-issue (who made the announcement about something) and try to blow that up as the only issue. There are a slew of more important issues which neither jdinasia, AleG nor the RTP can begin to address (except with denials), because those issues may reveal the RTP are shielding the people who should still be prime suspects. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Let's see what happens in the trial, and hope it's not as terribly lopsided as many suspect it will be - with the full force of Thai officialdom coming down fanatically on one side of the issue.

As for Sean: I don't think anyone seriously thinks he was one of the criminals. However, it's quite possible he was either a witness or knows some key clues about the crime. RTP don't want anything to do with Sean, because Sean may spill the beans and implicate the people the RTP are trying to shield. Why else escort Sean out of the country so quickly? ....never to be seen or heard from again.

"AleG put forth a claim that it was someone other than Panya who who announced Nomsod was cleared."

No, you claimed he was cleared only after Panya was promoted, with the intention of implying he was bumped out of the way to change the direction of the investigation, I proved you wrong, repeatedly; now you are just trying to weasel your way out of it.

"There are a slew of more important issues which neither jdinasia, AleG nor the RTP can begin to address (except with denials)"

Those issues being what, your vacuous allegations?

[catsanddogs]

With such high stakes (a young man and/or his uncle facing possible execution if found guilty), it would not be surprising if rich people connected to the prime suspects (at the time) would do anything they can to shield their family members. The first thing that would go out the window is TRUTH. Immediately after, the family goes into emergency mode. In Thailand (and many other countries), a lot can be done with lots of money paid to the right people. Similarly, a lot of leverage can be exerted with threats of harm or death. I'm not saying those things happened for a fact, it's just that looking reasonably at dozens of prior Thai cases with similar circumstances (the son of an important and rich Thai person facing dire troubles), it's par for the course. I'm predicating what I mention with the fact that Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects in the early stages of the investigation, ....then miraculously, in a Bangkok minute, they're of no interest to investigators. Poof - magic! Almost like they ceased to exist, and were completely cleared, no involvement on any level - all of a sudden.

Then I would think that once -- poof! magic! -- such wealthy persons were cleared, if only temporarily, they would all of sudden find reason that they would be pursuing for an extended period of time the family business interests in Hong Kong or France or some other venue without an extradition treaty with Thailand in the event that this summer the entire case against the 2 Burmese scapegoats blows up in the orchestrating family's face.

The fantasies of some people never end. Miraculously, when suspects are no longer suspects.... They are not suspects. Sean. -- not a suspect. Ware--- not a suspect Nomsod --- not a suspect Mon --- not a suspect

The first Burmese guys -- not suspects.

Boomerangutang claimed first (and for a long time) that the direction of the investigation suddenly changed when Gen Panya was promoted. It was in the news a week before the promotion but... Even today he was saying a junior officer made the statement that prior suspects had been excluded (and why) even though it was announced on the 25th of September. He was still asking about Mon when the same article from September 25th stated clearly that he was excluded and why. It is simply defamation to keep going back to things like this, but hey.....

Note -- no mention of the long but not exhaustive list of people who would have to be in on a conspiracy theory like the one presented here : either directly or complicitly

AleG put forth a claim that it was someone other than Panya who who announced Nomsod was cleared. Either way, it's not that big a deal. The big deal is that Nomsod, after evading police for a week, was cleared so quickly, by using such a paltry and questionable 'alibi.' And, just for the fun of it, RTP excused the other prime suspect, Mon, just as quickly (for what reasons?). Jdinasia conveniently ignores all the evidence which might implicate Nomsod and/or Mon, and finds one little non-issue (who made the announcement about something) and try to blow that up as the only issue. There are a slew of more important issues which neither jdinasia, AleG nor the RTP can begin to address (except with denials), because those issues may reveal the RTP are shielding the people who should still be prime suspects. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Let's see what happens in the trial, and hope it's not as terribly lopsided as many suspect it will be - with the full force of Thai officialdom coming down fanatically on one side of the issue.

As for Sean: I don't think anyone seriously thinks he was one of the criminals. However, it's quite possible he was either a witness or knows some key clues about the crime. RTP don't want anything to do with Sean, because Sean may spill the beans and implicate the people the RTP are trying to shield. Why else escort Sean out of the country so quickly? ....never to be seen or heard from again.

What I find odd about Nomsod is that there was such a massive issue made by his father, others and the press when he finally had a DNA test done, but yet there have been no other outcry's regarding his innocence in any other respect. No friends, no family, no teachers no travel companies that have come out publicly and stated that they have evidence to prove his innocence. I am not including the still of him supposedly at the uni block because this seems to be dubious. If it were a friend of mine in such circumstances and I could prove their innocence I would do so publicly so as to help clear their name.

[jdinasia]

Cats....

Cleared is cleared.

[rockingrobin]

Regards Nomsod

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-former-koh-tao-murder-suspect-confirms-innocence-48943.php

"I've been affected a lot," said Warot Tuwichian, a 22-year-old Bangkok University student. "I haven't attended classes since the incident occurred because people keep asking me if I am the killer. People on social media also harangued me." - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-former-koh-tao-murder-suspect-confirms-innocence-48943.php#sthash.5ZaiGEpD.dpuf

[berybert]

Regards Nomsod

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-former-koh-tao-murder-suspect-confirms-innocence-48943.php

"I've been affected a lot," said Warot Tuwichian, a 22-year-old Bangkok University student. "I haven't attended classes since the incident occurred because people keep asking me if I am the killer. People on social media also harangued me." - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-former-koh-tao-murder-suspect-confirms-innocence-48943.php#sthash.5ZaiGEpD.dpuf

Well I have mentioned on here many times that he didn't attend class for a week after the crimes. Yet people on here keep on saying he was in class the day after it.

Now in his own words he admits he wasn't there. How do the famous four swing this one ? Maybe Nom is now part of the conspiracy.

I seem to recall at the time saying why would a crime hundreds of miles from where he was have affected him so much. Its not as if its an unusual occurrence for farang to die on the island.

I doubt the day after the crime many of his class mates would have even known about it. Even he himself wouldn't have. Certainly not before starting class. I doubt the first thing his father would have done would be to worry about how his son was feeling in Bangkok when he was having rather more pressing concerns to deal with.

[retsdon]

No doubt at all that they'll be convicted - innocent or guilty, it's immaterial. But at the end of the day, everyone who's not a simpleton knows that in any civilized country their case would never have made it to trial on account of the investigation and subsequent proceedings being so compromised and tainted as to make any court verdict irrelevant in terms of truth of actual real criminal responsibility. But hey, this is Thailand, right?

[jimmybkk]

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

555... hilarious! It's very gracious of you to give me the freedom to disbelieve. I would say that a more accurate statement would be that in the absence of anything to corroborate your claims regarding when Panya's promotion was announced <deleted>. Hmmmm... although I can see why you would prefer to label me as a disbeliever.

If you would like to shut me up you could convince me by finding the articles that confirm your assertions, telling me the exact date the articles appeared and the names of the publications they appeared in, and I can do the rest. To my understanding that would not be breaking any forum rules. And while you're at it show me the links to the historic reporting of trials

The point about the moot point you mention is that it was not my point, as you well know. My point was simply that you seem to enjoy making statements that suit your agenda and presenting them as undeniable facts, and yet when scrutinized and requests are made for you to substantiate these "undeniable facts" what is glaringly apparent is that the statements lack any factual content whatsoever, and in the place of facts lies a disturbing undertone of prejudice and propaganda.

But hey, don't let my observations stop you from doing what you do best...

[jimmybkk]

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

Irrefutable my dear Watson... With you at the helm this case should be cleared up in no time.

[catsanddogs]

Cats....

Cleared is cleared.

And smeared is smeared.

Prayuth, the day after Hannah and David's lives were wiped out -

"Tourists think that Thailand is beautiful, safe and that they can do anything they want here. That they can put on their bikinis and go anywhere they want. I ask, can you get away with wearing bikinis in Thailand? Unless you are not beautiful?"

and the day after -

"I am sorry with what I said and if it has caused any ill-feelings. I just wanted to warn tourists that we have different traditions and they have to stay on their toes."

[boomerangutang]

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.

But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

[boomerangutang]

And smeared is smeared.

Prayuth, the day after Hannah and David's lives were wiped out -

"Tourists think that Thailand is beautiful, safe and that they can do anything they want here. That they can put on their bikinis and go anywhere they want. I ask, can you get away with wearing bikinis in Thailand? Unless you are not beautiful?"

and the day after -

"I am sorry with what I said and if it has caused any ill-feelings. I just wanted to warn tourists that we have different traditions and they have to stay on their toes."

Thanks for the reminder C&D. It gives a window on the type of mind-set we're dealing with here in Thailand.

Those two statements are too weird to even comment about. Perhaps there needs to be an adjustment of the expression, "putting foot in mouth" ....to something like; "putting toe in ear."

[catsanddogs]

Regarding the discussion of Mamen on the thread.

I understand that Police Major General Panya Mamen, the (then) head Thai Police southern region announced that quite early on in the investigation that two suspects were the son and younger brother of a the local ‘head man’and owner of the AC bar, In Touch Resort and Phoenix Divers. And then the General was transferred and the Thai police arrested two Burmese men saying that their DNA had been discovered at the crime scene. Then the National Human Rights Commission said the Burmese men had been tortured to give confessions.

Does the defence get to see the CCTV from the alleged altercation that was reported to have happened in the bar between the victims and whoever else? Do they get to see the footage of the Western woman captured on CCTV that the RTP chose not to release? And all the other evidence that is contained on all the other CCTVs on Koh Tao of that evening and morning - do they get to see that? Does anyone know? Can Mamen be called to court at the defence lawyer's request?

[JLCrab]

I'd just llike to say here that Kuhn Boomerangutang has done a great pubic service in listing many of the investigative procedures that should have been done by the RTP but weren't done such that when the REAL killers still on the loose choose to strike again the RTP and others will be much better informed as to how a proper murder investigation should be conducted i.e.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/?view=findpost&p=9206658

(... and the beat goes on)

Edited March 25, 2015 by JLCrab

[catsanddogs]

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.

But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

Brilliant post Boomer! Even a four year old could join the dots.

[IslandLover]

rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:rockingrobin, on 24 Mar 2015 - 06:54, said:

It is my understanding that the RTP are claiming that there was no blood on the clothes because they had been washed

As for defense not disclosing its information, this would be normal and especially so in Thailand where the prosecution doesnt reveal the evidence in there possesion

It would appear that some posters like the judiicial system of discovery but appear not to like the defence to have the same privilege

Correction the translator made the claim the clothes had been washed

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get heavy bloodstains out of fabric by washing alone. I know from personal experience. You need special chemicals. And after a crime like that which happened on 15 September 2014, there would have been a lot of blood.

Examination of clothing, where available, is vital in a case like this. I would be very surprised if the forensic chemist in charge did not ask for all available clothing. What you can see with the naked eye is not all there is to it. Detailed forensic examination is required. This is done in a laboratory.

A lot will depend on things like the amount of blood, the type of fabric, how well the clothing was washed. I dealt with a case once where blood in readable quantities was found in the seams of a garment after washing.

Another aspect relating to clothing that has not, as far as I am aware, got even a single mention is “contact evidence”. Basically when two people come into contact with each other, fibers may be transferred from one person’s clothing to the others. This can also survive wash depending on fabric, how many fibers, how thoroughly washed etc.

For the nitty gritty on these things you would need to consult a forensic chemist.

One thing I do know the examination and testing could take weeks to complete depending on circumstances; certainly after the police stopped releasing details to the public.

Whether the prosecution has such evidence I do not know and nor does anyone else on this thread. We will have to wait for the trial.

.

Agreed, all this would be done as a matter of course in a western forensics laboratory, but in Thailand?? As to the washing of blood stained clothes on KT, I doubt they have the kind of laundry facilities to remove all visible traces. If the killers had any sense, they would have burned such evidence surely? IMO for the "translator", sorry roti vendor to claim that the B2 had no bloodstains on their clothing because they had washed them is ridiculous.

Edited March 25, 2015 by IslandLover

[catsanddogs]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/burmese-murder-accused-british-backpackers-thailand

Two Burmese men detained in Thailand for allegedly killing the British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have told the Guardian they are innocent and have appealed to the victims’ families and the UK government to help them clear their names.

In their first media interview since being arrested almost eight weeks ago, Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 21, stressed their sorrow over the deaths of the Britons, whose battered bodies were found on a beach on the holiday island of Koh Tao on 15 September. But they said they were not involved and asked UK authorities to share with their lawyers the results of a Metropolitan police review of the Thai investigation.

Imagine it was 2 Thai men (previously discussed) who had been detained the murders. And try to imagine them writing to the victims' families and the UK government for help. They wouldn't need to would they?

[greenchair]

3 bottles of beer shared among 3 young men over several hours and they claimed they were too drunk to know what happened that night.

They're hiding something, either several more bottles of beer or what actually happened that night.

Neither the rtp nor the b2 were able to put together a plausible explaination as to how this crime took place. It was a convenient statement. That possibly the b2 came up with themselves for self preservation. Since their arrest, at no time have the b2 been permitted to talk with anyone without an official standing over them. People must remember, though they may well be safe to speak in the court. At the end of the day they will go back to the prison, that any number of things may happen to someone that does not follow the rules. The b2 may continue to say this for safety. It will be up to the lawyers to speak the truths for them. Iin captivity, I don't expect the story to change. If the b2 were free their story may well be very different.