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Second rice auction this year fetches another 8 billion baht


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Second rice auction this year fetches another 8 billion baht

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BANGKOK: -- The second round of rice bidding drew 40 rice traders and exporters to compete with 38 being named winners for the 780,000 tons of rice of a total million ton put on auction.

Total bid price was put at eight billion baht, according to the Foreign Trade Department under the Commerce Ministry.

Ms Banjongjit Angsusingh, deputy director-general of Foreign Trade Department, said 40 bidders joined in the rice auction but tenders of 38 bidders were accepted.

Total tender price they were willing to buy was at eight billion baht for some 780,000 tons of the total 1.008 million tons of rice or 71.77 percent of the total amount put up for auction, she noted.

Ms Banjongjit said she was satisfied with the result due to high number of participants.

She said the bidding result would be forwarded to the Rice Policy and Management Committee for consideration within next week.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/second-rice-auction-this-year-fetches-another-8-billion-baht

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-- Thai PBS 2015-03-07

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The question isn't too difficult to understand really.

Didn't the Junta promise a fixed price which was higher than the 8-9000 baht per tonne to the farmers early on after they took control?

I also seem to recall saying that how could they influence the rice market price too?

Now if there only getting 10,000 baht through bids, how much of that goes back to the farmer?

What's so difficult to understand about that?

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In the future, I hope all farmers heed getting involved with any scheme the government proposes. Keep the market open

to world buyers. They don't need another third hand involved with the transactions. With so many hands in the cookie Jar,

you'll only end up with crumbs!

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Isn't this a lot less than what they stated they'd get and pay the farmers for earlier on in the coup?

In auctions you never know what you are going to get.

If the PTP hadn't have been so stupid to have implemented this scam then we wouldn't be talking about auctions right now AND the farmers would be a lot better off!!!!

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

The rice auctioned was milled rice that had been in storage, they do not store unmilled rice, the rice was taken to a mill by the farmers where it is milled into the rice that was put into storage.

There have been far more knowledgeable people than you who have done the math on this including the world bank and the Thai finance ministry and they agree on the loss, as per this graphic from the finance ministry :

post-12069-0-72216000-1425725607_thumb.j

You will note that loss is only up to the time of the inspection and does not include costs and losses from then on.

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

The bidding was by rice traders and exporters so it's far more likely that they were buying milled rice.

Longway's post would appear to be more accurate than your attempt to downplay the losses.

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The question isn't too difficult to understand really.

Didn't the Junta promise a fixed price which was higher than the 8-9000 baht per tonne to the farmers early on after they took control?

I also seem to recall saying that how could they influence the rice market price too?

Now if there only getting 10,000 baht through bids, how much of that goes back to the farmer?

What's so difficult to understand about that?

Have to check but I think the Prayuth government promised some compensation based on acreage and with a maximum.

Furthermore apart from lack of info from which year/season this rice sold is, none of the revenue will go to farmers as this stock is already owned by the government. Farmers got paid (I hope) for their paddy already.

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

The rice auctioned was milled rice that had been in storage, they do not store unmilled rice, the rice was taken to a mill by the farmers where it is milled into the rice that was put into storage.

There have been far more knowledgeable people than you who have done the math on this including the world bank and the Thai finance ministry and they agree on the loss, as per this graphic from the finance ministry :

attachicon.gifrice.jpg

You will note that loss is only up to the time of the inspection and does not include costs and losses from then on.

My point exactly the numbers from the Thai Finance Ministry (aka the junta). So the World Bank has done a full audit on figures provided by the junta isn't really credible. A bit like the nonsense that Yingluck government used to go on with. Both are as bad as each other.

I sold rice in this scam and I am aware of the processes. It is not brought to the mill by the farmers, it was sold to the government at designated sites then transported wherever.

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

The bidding was by rice traders and exporters so it's far more likely that they were buying milled rice.

Longway's post would appear to be more accurate than your attempt to downplay the losses.

I stand corrected if it was milled rice.

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

The rice auctioned was milled rice that had been in storage, they do not store unmilled rice, the rice was taken to a mill by the farmers where it is milled into the rice that was put into storage.

There have been far more knowledgeable people than you who have done the math on this including the world bank and the Thai finance ministry and they agree on the loss, as per this graphic from the finance ministry :

attachicon.gifrice.jpg

You will note that loss is only up to the time of the inspection and does not include costs and losses from then on.

My point exactly the numbers from the Thai Finance Ministry (aka the junta). So the World Bank has done a full audit on figures provided by the junta isn't really credible. A bit like the nonsense that Yingluck government used to go on with. Both are as bad as each other.

I sold rice in this scam and I am aware of the processes. It is not brought to the mill by the farmers, it was sold to the government at designated sites then transported wherever.

The junta indeed ???????

The audit was done during the term of the Yingluck Government by the finance ministry under the control of the then finance minister Khun Kitterat.

Furthermore the chair of the post audit commit was sacked for telling the truth.

The World Bank report also came out during the term of the Yingluck Govt.

You want some more confirmation of the losses try :

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/tdri-says-yinglucks-rice-pledging-scheme-causes-almost-trillion-baht-loss

Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) says the rice-pledging scheme implemented by the Yingluck government during 2011-2014 has so far caused 660 billion baht loss to the state.

But it says the loss could reach a trillion baht on assumption that the remaining 17 million tons of rice in the stocks are sold out in the next 10 years.

And if you want to actually learn something about the scheme read this 14 page report :

http://freedombarometer.org/assets/pdfs/Freedom-Barometer-Special-Report-Thailands-Agrarian-Policy.pdf

For someone who says they sold rice into the scheme you appear to know very little, the rice did go to the mills where it was weighed and assessed for moisture content among other things and a chit issued to the farmers which was supposed to be cashed at the BACC.

The millers then milled the rice and sent it on to storage.

However as someone forgot to give the bank money to pay the farmers many went home empty handed.

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"Ms Banjongjit said she was satisfied with the result due to high number of participants"

Yes it is all positive in Thailand.. Let us hope the farmers will reconsider and insist on a second rice harvest....

Why can some not understand that a second harvest is impossible for many because of the drought situation, you know drought, lack of water.

Where farmers do have water they have planted and are in fact now nearing harvest of a second crop.

In most cases those who have got away with growing a second crop have exhausted their water supply and will not be able to plant again before they get significant rain.

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

Someone who doesn't have a clue, and doesn't have a clue he has no clue ie your typical PT supporter.

You don't even understand the difference between paddy and milled rice. I cant believe I even have to say this: these rice auctions are for milled rice.

And all your other figures are way off too. Money spent was not far from 1 trillion baht, paddy supposedly bought is around 65 million tonnes

The only thing you are right about is that many farmers, especially the poorer ones, did not receive the full price for their paddy. However the PT's own figures show that they paid an average of 15,000 baht per tonne for paddy rice, how that happened when farmers did not receive the full price is for the PT to explain.

At least find out the basic facts before you leap in and try to defend cynical manipulative thieves.

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

You haven't missed the processing yield. One kilo of paddy in, yields 600 grammes out.

So 12,000 to the farmer becomes approx 20k at the factory gate before any margin for the processor. So there is a loss, but whether it is destined to be 700bn is as yet unknown.

Top grade hom Mali is 30k per tonne. 15k to farmer if perfect, process, 23 k, transport storage packaging, margin and bingo 30k.

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

You haven't missed the processing yield. One kilo of paddy in, yields 600 grammes out.

So 12,000 to the farmer becomes approx 20k at the factory gate before any margin for the processor. So there is a loss, but whether it is destined to be 700bn is as yet unknown.

Except that many farmers weren't being paid at all and several of them even committed suicide: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Stress-drives-another-farmer-to-suicide-30226933.html

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Receives a little over 10,000 baht per tonne.

Represents a loss of about 12-13,000 baht per tonne.

It would have been cheaper by 20-30% to pay farmers not to grow any rice at all.

Spectacular display of greed and incompetence, even by Thai standards.

To clarify the PT rice scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy which equates to 22-23,000 per tonne of milled rice, precious little of which went into the hands of poor thai farmers.

There is no way the farmers were paid 15,000 per tonne, if their rice was of high quality, with a low moister content and clean they would of got max 14k per tonne but most would only have received about 10k or 11k as they would have taken it straight to sell after it was cut. So deductions would have been made for high moister content and bits of grass, weds etc that would have been cut by the rice harvester as well. A sample of everybody's rice was checked before a price was given to farmer. If you were not happy with the price you got you could take it way.

This rice auctioned have would have been for unmilled paddy rice i'm sure which equates to a loss of max 2k/3k per tonne!!!

The numbers the junta is saying the scheme lost are either a fantasy to make the Yingluck government like it stole about 500 billion baht or its the greatest theft in the history of the world by about 100 fold!!!!

Quick calculation from memory:

500 billion baht paid to farmers over 3 years

40 million tonnes bought off farmers

Still have in stock 17 million tonnes

So by the above ROUGH calculation and having sold rice for an average of 10,000 baht a tonne and sell the remaining rice at the same price it comes out that the scheme made a loss of only 100 billion baht or 20% per tonne. There will of course be storage and transport costs etc but definitely not a loss of 700 BILLION!!

Interesting to see the actual numbers when they come out in the Yingluck trial!!

You haven't missed the processing yield. One kilo of paddy in, yields 600 grammes out.

So 12,000 to the farmer becomes approx 20k at the factory gate before any margin for the processor. So there is a loss, but whether it is destined to be 700bn is as yet unknown.

Except that many farmers weren't being paid at all and several of them even committed suicide: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Stress-drives-another-farmer-to-suicide-30226933.html

The reasons behind farmers not getting paid were political and have no bearing on understanding the pricing.

Completely irrelevant comment on your part.

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I wonder why bids from two bidders were not accepted. ??

Just guessing, but perhaps their bids were too low.

The auction was not just for one lot of 1000 tons of rice but for many lots of different grades and if I understand correctly from more than one warehouse.

The bidders were given the opportunity to inspect the rice before the auction so would have known which lots they wanted to bid on, not all buyers would have bid on the same lot or the same grade, they would have only bid on what their clients wanted.

As with any auction there can only be one winning bid on each lot so it is inevitable that some bidders missed out, that there were only 2 that went away empty handed seems a very good result and would very likely mean that these 2 were outbid, meaning that there was competition for at least some of the lots sold.

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