Johpa Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Samantha Power is Obamas representative in the UN security council. Thus representing the people of the US with a veto power in the UN security council. Which all sounds great until you remember that the third arm of the tripartite US government, the Judiciary, gave corporations the status of people and thus at this point in time, by many accounts, she represents the controlling corporate interests. Although in her rather symbolic job at the equally symbolic UN, she seems to represent her own pet academic interests. And why not as the UN has become increasingly irrelevant in the age of corporatism (Rollerball) and non-state actors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKBobby Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Samantha Power is Obamas representative in the UN security council. Thus representing the people of the US with a veto power in the UN security council.Which all sounds great until you remember that the third arm of the tripartite US government, the Judiciary, gave corporations the status of people and thus at this point in time, by many accounts, she represents the controlling corporate interests. Although in her rather symbolic job at the equally symbolic UN, she seems to represent her own pet academic interests. And why not as the UN has become increasingly irrelevant in the age of corporatism (Rollerball) and non-state actors. Shes not going to put a veto against Obamas wishes. Any other opinion about that fact is delusional. The things you say about her might be true though, since I dont know and cant comment on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steely Dan Posted March 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2015 It looks like the French may be schooling Obama in how not to surrender. http://app.debka.com/p/article/24479/France-balks-at-the-US-Iranian-deal-on-five-counts-%E2%80%93-not-least-with-an-eye-on-its-Gulf-ties 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chuckd Posted March 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2015 Maybe President Obama's time would be better spent worrying about what Ayatollah Ali Khameini says rather than fretting over what the GOP Congress and PM Netanyahu say. Happy Now Ruz, Barack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 21, 2015, 01:06 pm Ayatollah: Iran nuke talks 'fraudulent' By Mark Hensch Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, tweeted his outrage Saturday over talks with the U.S. over his nation’s nuclear weapons research. “We reject fraudulent offer of reaching w #Iran first than lifting sanctions,” Khamenei tweeted. “Lifting sanctions is a part of deal, not its outcome.” “#US sanctions are ineffective,” he continued. “Threatening to sanction or military action won’t scare #Iran-ians. God backs Iranian nation’s resistance.” http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/236529-ayatollah-iran-nuke-talks-fraudulent --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iran's leader rules out regional cooperation with US AFP 23 hours ago Tehran (AFP) - Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Saturday ruled out any cooperation with the United States in the troubled Middle East, saying talks with Washington are confined to nuclear issues. "No way," he told a raucous crowd in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad, on the chances of an agreement on Iran's atomic programme having other policy implications. "Negotiations with the United States are on the nuclear issue and nothing else," he said. http://news.yahoo.com/irans-leader-rules-regional-cooperation-us-155415555.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF, AP AND AFP March 21, 2015, 8:37 pm 682 Iran’s Supreme leader Ali Khamenei called for “Death to America” on Saturday, a day after President Barack Obama appealed to Iran to seize a “historic opportunity” for a nuclear deal and a better future, and as US Secretary of State John Kerry claimed substantial progress toward an accord. Khamenei told a crowd in Tehran that Iran would not capitulate to Western demands. When the crowd started shouting, “Death to America,” the ayatollah responded: “Of course yes, death to America, because America is the original source of this pressure. “They insist on putting pressure on our dear people’s economy,” he said, referring to economic sanctions aimed at halting Iran’s nuclear program. “What is their goal? Their goal is to put the people against the system,” he said. “The politics of America is to create insecurity,” he added, referring both to US pressure on Iran and elsewhere in the region. Read more: Khamenei calls 'Death to America' as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-calls-death-to-america-as-kerry-hails-progress-on-nuke-deal/#ixzz3V8A4cgg2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Not so. It takes a vote of 2/3 of the Senate to ratify a treaty. This is welded into the US Constitution. "Advice and consent" includes the itty bitty word "consent." From the Senate's website: The Senate's Role in Treaties The Constitution provides that the president "shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur" (Article II, section 2). The Constitution's framers gave the Senate a share of the treaty power in order to give the president the benefit of the Senate's advice and counsel, check presidential power, and safeguard the sovereignty of the states by giving each state an equal vote in the treatymaking process. LINKhttp://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Treaties.htm Not so. The Senate is needed to ratify a treaty. It doesn't ratify. That is the sole prerogative of the President. The Senate could vote for a treaty with 100% voting for it and still cannot ratify it. They cannot overrule the President to get a treaty ratified. See my link above from the same website you use where it clearly states that "the Senate does not ratify treaties " Where did I say that the Senate ratifies treaties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Maybe President Obama's time would be better spent worrying about what Ayatollah Ali Khameini says rather than fretting over what the GOP Congress and PM Netanyahu say. Happy Now Ruz, Barack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 21, 2015, 01:06 pm Ayatollah: Iran nuke talks 'fraudulent' By Mark Hensch Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, tweeted his outrage Saturday over talks with the U.S. over his nation’s nuclear weapons research. “We reject fraudulent offer of reaching w #Iran first than lifting sanctions,” Khamenei tweeted. “Lifting sanctions is a part of deal, not its outcome.” “#US sanctions are ineffective,” he continued. “Threatening to sanction or military action won’t scare #Iran-ians. God backs Iranian nation’s resistance.” http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/236529-ayatollah-iran-nuke-talks-fraudulent --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iran's leader rules out regional cooperation with US AFP 23 hours ago Tehran (AFP) - Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Saturday ruled out any cooperation with the United States in the troubled Middle East, saying talks with Washington are confined to nuclear issues. "No way," he told a raucous crowd in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad, on the chances of an agreement on Iran's atomic programme having other policy implications. "Negotiations with the United States are on the nuclear issue and nothing else," he said. http://news.yahoo.com/irans-leader-rules-regional-cooperation-us-155415555.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF, AP AND AFP March 21, 2015, 8:37 pm 682 Iran’s Supreme leader Ali Khamenei called for “Death to America” on Saturday, a day after President Barack Obama appealed to Iran to seize a “historic opportunity” for a nuclear deal and a better future, and as US Secretary of State John Kerry claimed substantial progress toward an accord. Khamenei told a crowd in Tehran that Iran would not capitulate to Western demands. When the crowd started shouting, “Death to America,” the ayatollah responded: “Of course yes, death to America, because America is the original source of this pressure. “They insist on putting pressure on our dear people’s economy,” he said, referring to economic sanctions aimed at halting Iran’s nuclear program. “What is their goal? Their goal is to put the people against the system,” he said. “The politics of America is to create insecurity,” he added, referring both to US pressure on Iran and elsewhere in the region. Read more: Khamenei calls 'Death to America' as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-calls-death-to-america-as-kerry-hails-progress-on-nuke-deal/#ixzz3V8A4cgg2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It doesn't matter how they spin it though, does it? What's important is results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Maybe President Obama's time would be better spent worrying about what Ayatollah Ali Khameini says rather than fretting over what the GOP Congress and PM Netanyahu say. Happy Now Ruz, Barack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 21, 2015, 01:06 pm Ayatollah: Iran nuke talks 'fraudulent' By Mark Hensch Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, tweeted his outrage Saturday over talks with the U.S. over his nation’s nuclear weapons research. “We reject fraudulent offer of reaching w #Iran first than lifting sanctions,” Khamenei tweeted. “Lifting sanctions is a part of deal, not its outcome.” “#US sanctions are ineffective,” he continued. “Threatening to sanction or military action won’t scare #Iran-ians. God backs Iranian nation’s resistance.” http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/236529-ayatollah-iran-nuke-talks-fraudulent --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iran's leader rules out regional cooperation with US AFP 23 hours ago Tehran (AFP) - Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Saturday ruled out any cooperation with the United States in the troubled Middle East, saying talks with Washington are confined to nuclear issues. "No way," he told a raucous crowd in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad, on the chances of an agreement on Iran's atomic programme having other policy implications. "Negotiations with the United States are on the nuclear issue and nothing else," he said. http://news.yahoo.com/irans-leader-rules-regional-cooperation-us-155415555.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF, AP AND AFP March 21, 2015, 8:37 pm 682 Iran’s Supreme leader Ali Khamenei called for “Death to America” on Saturday, a day after President Barack Obama appealed to Iran to seize a “historic opportunity” for a nuclear deal and a better future, and as US Secretary of State John Kerry claimed substantial progress toward an accord. Khamenei told a crowd in Tehran that Iran would not capitulate to Western demands. When the crowd started shouting, “Death to America,” the ayatollah responded: “Of course yes, death to America, because America is the original source of this pressure. “They insist on putting pressure on our dear people’s economy,” he said, referring to economic sanctions aimed at halting Iran’s nuclear program. “What is their goal? Their goal is to put the people against the system,” he said. “The politics of America is to create insecurity,” he added, referring both to US pressure on Iran and elsewhere in the region. Read more: Khamenei calls 'Death to America' as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-calls-death-to-america-as-kerry-hails-progress-on-nuke-deal/#ixzz3V8A4cgg2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good post. All of this while Obama circumvents Congress expecting Americans to just "trust him." Obama is too blind to see he can't trust Iran. If the sanctions haven't really put the hurts to Iran, why are they so anxious to get rid of them? The truth is that they have really hurt Iran and that's the only reason they are now at the table and the only reason they emphasize lifting sanctions. Brer rabbit, anyone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Maybe President Obama's time would be better spent worrying about what Ayatollah Ali Khameini says rather than fretting over what the GOP Congress and PM Netanyahu say. Happy Now Ruz, Barack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 21, 2015, 01:06 pm Ayatollah: Iran nuke talks 'fraudulent' By Mark Hensch Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, tweeted his outrage Saturday over talks with the U.S. over his nation’s nuclear weapons research. “We reject fraudulent offer of reaching w #Iran first than lifting sanctions,” Khamenei tweeted. “Lifting sanctions is a part of deal, not its outcome.” “#US sanctions are ineffective,” he continued. “Threatening to sanction or military action won’t scare #Iran-ians. God backs Iranian nation’s resistance.” http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/236529-ayatollah-iran-nuke-talks-fraudulent --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iran's leader rules out regional cooperation with US AFP 23 hours ago Tehran (AFP) - Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Saturday ruled out any cooperation with the United States in the troubled Middle East, saying talks with Washington are confined to nuclear issues. "No way," he told a raucous crowd in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad, on the chances of an agreement on Iran's atomic programme having other policy implications. "Negotiations with the United States are on the nuclear issue and nothing else," he said. http://news.yahoo.com/irans-leader-rules-regional-cooperation-us-155415555.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF, AP AND AFP March 21, 2015, 8:37 pm 682 Iran’s Supreme leader Ali Khamenei called for “Death to America” on Saturday, a day after President Barack Obama appealed to Iran to seize a “historic opportunity” for a nuclear deal and a better future, and as US Secretary of State John Kerry claimed substantial progress toward an accord. Khamenei told a crowd in Tehran that Iran would not capitulate to Western demands. When the crowd started shouting, “Death to America,” the ayatollah responded: “Of course yes, death to America, because America is the original source of this pressure. “They insist on putting pressure on our dear people’s economy,” he said, referring to economic sanctions aimed at halting Iran’s nuclear program. “What is their goal? Their goal is to put the people against the system,” he said. “The politics of America is to create insecurity,” he added, referring both to US pressure on Iran and elsewhere in the region. Read more: Khamenei calls 'Death to America' as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-calls-death-to-america-as-kerry-hails-progress-on-nuke-deal/#ixzz3V8A4cgg2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds like the Ayatollah and the Ambassador of the Congress to Iran John Boehner have been talking the past few days, to include some conference calls between the Ayatollah and a certain band of 47 Republican Senators/advisers, whose local press secretary has just issued a public release. This is the time when the negotiators have come down to becoming wrestlers in a cage and no holds barred. We've already had the Ides of March and now the P5+1 and Iran are looking at the March 27th handshake date followed immediately by the March 31th date for the Framework Agreement to be signed. Expect a week coming up of a lot of screaming, hollering, kicking, body slams, noisy crowds and the like. The coming week won't be for the squeamish or the faint of heart. Let's write next Sunday into the appointment calendar because by that time they'll all be hoarse and silent cause the next seven days in March will be a no-man's land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Edit in: To Chicog It depends on who those results ultimately benefit. Surely you have dealt with the Middle East mind in contract negotiations? In Obama's zeal to get some sort of foreign policy accomplishment, he will do anything. The Iranians know it and, if you would admit it, so do you. My guess is the West will wake up in a couple of years, scratch their collective heads and ask..."What happened?" Edited March 22, 2015 by chuckd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 It looks like the French may be schooling Obama in how not to surrender. http://app.debka.com/p/article/24479/France-balks-at-the-US-Iranian-deal-on-five-counts-%E2%80%93-not-least-with-an-eye-on-its-Gulf-ties "US Secretary of State John Kerry fared no better Saturday, when he met British, French and German Foreign ministers in London for a briefing on the talks’ progress intended to line the Europeans up with the American position. He then found, according to debkafile’s sources, that France was not alone; Germany too balked at parts of the deal in the making." Same Link. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Iranians slam France on nuclear talks Nov. 9, 2013. Tehran University professor Sadeq Zibaqalam, said in an interview with the government-run Iranian News Agency, "France always wants to demonstrate its independence from the United States and other European countries, and so its foreign minister's opposition can also be interpreted along these lines." He further explained, "Fabius is pursuing the views of Saudi Arabia and Israel.” http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/11/iran-slams-france-nuclear-talks.html# France back then, late in 2013, almost crashed the negotiations over its surprise initiative to constrain Iran's enriched uranium and to surprise insist construction be frozen of the Arak heavy-water reactor. After the shock was absorbed and the smoke and dust cleared, the P5+1 adopted France's position and after a lot of kicking and screaming, Iran bought it. Some naive people think the P5+1 have themselves spent the past three years in negotiations with Iran being unanimous in everything all the time under all conditions, all circumstances, in every day of negotiating positions, issues, demands. Such people need to think again. Iran came to the negotiating table in 2012 only after the US & EU cut off Iran from the SWIFT global electronic banking system based in Belgium which does $6 Trillion in transactions daily. Iran is in a desperate condition so it desperately needs an agreement desperately. Did I mention Iran is desperate for an agreement? Yes indeed, Iran is desperate for an agreement. There's always the possibility any deal will collapse, fail, and this one is no different. However, the Ayatollah is going to spend all week throwing red meat to the crowds then he's going to announce a total and complete victory agreement, a triumph for Iran in the absolute. That's how these things work when they work, and this deal is a working deal. Edited March 22, 2015 by Publicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up-country_sinclair Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Not so. It takes a vote of 2/3 of the Senate to ratify a treaty. This is welded into the US Constitution. "Advice and consent" includes the itty bitty word "consent." From the Senate's website: The Senate's Role in Treaties The Constitution provides that the president "shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur" (Article II, section 2). The Constitution's framers gave the Senate a share of the treaty power in order to give the president the benefit of the Senate's advice and counsel, check presidential power, and safeguard the sovereignty of the states by giving each state an equal vote in the treatymaking process. LINKhttp://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Treaties.htm Not so. The Senate is needed to ratify a treaty. It doesn't ratify. That is the sole prerogative of the President. The Senate could vote for a treaty with 100% voting for it and still cannot ratify it. They cannot overrule the President to get a treaty ratified. See my link above from the same website you use where it clearly states that "the Senate does not ratify treaties " Of course you're right, but sadly you're wasting your time. Hyper-partisans will never listen to reason or facts if they don't coincide with their extremist views. Whether it be an alleged "veto proof majority", "abolishing the filibuster" or "simply and without a problem" stopping an executive action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 My fellow Americans who don't know what they are talking about when they carry on about the Constitution, treaties, balance of powers, checks and balances, foreign policy executive agreements, domestic executive actions, the veto, the filibuster, immigration law and judges, and a whole lot more should finally at last stop to take stock of their extremist views after having been corrected repeatedly by foreigners from the ayatollahs in Tehran to other posters from English speaking countries abroad. But these fringe Americans don't, won't, probably can't. They insist instead on remaining hell-bent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Edit in: To Chicog It depends on who those results ultimately benefit. Surely you have dealt with the Middle East mind in contract negotiations? In Obama's zeal to get some sort of foreign policy accomplishment, he will do anything. The Iranians know it and, if you would admit it, so do you. My guess is the West will wake up in a couple of years, scratch their collective heads and ask..."What happened?" It's common knowledge that the brainless zealots don't want this deal to go through. And the Iranian hardliners are against, it too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Maybe President Obama's time would be better spent worrying about what Ayatollah Ali Khameini says rather than fretting over what the GOP Congress and PM Netanyahu say. Happy Now Ruz, Barack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 21, 2015, 01:06 pm Ayatollah: Iran nuke talks 'fraudulent' By Mark Hensch Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, tweeted his outrage Saturday over talks with the U.S. over his nation’s nuclear weapons research. “We reject fraudulent offer of reaching w #Iran first than lifting sanctions,” Khamenei tweeted. “Lifting sanctions is a part of deal, not its outcome.” “#US sanctions are ineffective,” he continued. “Threatening to sanction or military action won’t scare #Iran-ians. God backs Iranian nation’s resistance.” http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/236529-ayatollah-iran-nuke-talks-fraudulent --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iran's leader rules out regional cooperation with US AFP 23 hours ago Tehran (AFP) - Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Saturday ruled out any cooperation with the United States in the troubled Middle East, saying talks with Washington are confined to nuclear issues. "No way," he told a raucous crowd in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad, on the chances of an agreement on Iran's atomic programme having other policy implications. "Negotiations with the United States are on the nuclear issue and nothing else," he said. http://news.yahoo.com/irans-leader-rules-regional-cooperation-us-155415555.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF, AP AND AFP March 21, 2015, 8:37 pm 682 Iran’s Supreme leader Ali Khamenei called for “Death to America” on Saturday, a day after President Barack Obama appealed to Iran to seize a “historic opportunity” for a nuclear deal and a better future, and as US Secretary of State John Kerry claimed substantial progress toward an accord. Khamenei told a crowd in Tehran that Iran would not capitulate to Western demands. When the crowd started shouting, “Death to America,” the ayatollah responded: “Of course yes, death to America, because America is the original source of this pressure. “They insist on putting pressure on our dear people’s economy,” he said, referring to economic sanctions aimed at halting Iran’s nuclear program. “What is their goal? Their goal is to put the people against the system,” he said. “The politics of America is to create insecurity,” he added, referring both to US pressure on Iran and elsewhere in the region. Read more: Khamenei calls 'Death to America' as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-calls-death-to-america-as-kerry-hails-progress-on-nuke-deal/#ixzz3V8A4cgg2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good post. All of this while Obama circumvents Congress expecting Americans to just "trust him." Obama is too blind to see he can't trust Iran. If the sanctions haven't really put the hurts to Iran, why are they so anxious to get rid of them? The truth is that they have really hurt Iran and that's the only reason they are now at the table and the only reason they emphasize lifting sanctions. Brer rabbit, anyone? Obama is too blind to see he can't trust Iran. The statement is not credible because it is a vacuous political shout that ignores the fact no one trusts Iran....no one. During the Cold War the United States did not trust the Soviet Union either, which is why we negotiated arms control treaties with them, treaties whose provisions were verifiable and verified. Yet with every treaty between the US and USSR there were always those on the fringe who shouted that we'd been had, that we'd been taken to the woods, that we were saps and suckers to the necessarily more sharp, clever, astute Russians. Who's gone and who's still here? Now come the Persians in the form of ayatollahs and guess what? The Iranian people don't trust 'em either so we're in good company this time. And now comes the unrelenting and hard driving entirely political campaign to try to convince Americans and the world that Prez Obama is something he is not, acts out of a supposed obliviousness, is being led down the garden path that, btw, the political opposition "hopes" can be corrected, as always, "before it's too late." It's the old "Wake Up America" refrain that has come from the political fringe for more than a century of ignoring the fringe itself. The difference now however is that the ideological fringe have taken control, if not taken over, a major political party, the Republican party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 However, the Ayatollah is going to spend all week throwing red meat to the crowds then he's going to announce a total and complete victory agreement, a triumph for Iran in the absolute. Judging by what's known about this "deal", the Ayatollah will be absolutely correct. Unless Iran is absolutely forbidden from enriching uranium - like most countries that do not have nuclear weapons legally - they have won. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steely Dan Posted March 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2015 More corroborating evidence that Obama's planned capitulation to Iran is under attack from several sides. We already know that France is unhappy about several aspects of the deal. They are also in active discussion with the Israelis, who Obama has tried to cut out of the loop. http://app.debka.com/p/newsupdate/10854/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 More corroborating evidence that Obama's planned capitulation to Iran is under attack from several sides. We already know that France is unhappy about several aspects of the deal. They are also in active discussion with the Israelis, who Obama has tried to cut out of the loop. http://app.debka.com/p/newsupdate/10854/ Makes sense. France is easier striking distance than the USA from Iran. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 It looks like the French may be schooling Obama in how not to surrender. http://app.debka.com/p/article/24479/France-balks-at-the-US-Iranian-deal-on-five-counts-%E2%80%93-not-least-with-an-eye-on-its-Gulf-ties " President Barack Obama failed to shift French President France Hollande from his objections to the nuclear accord taking shape between the US and Iran in the call he put through to the Elysée Friday night, March 30. " Is this news from years ago, or is it "news" written in advance of the facts? (Considering that today is Monday, March 23rd) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chicog Posted March 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2015 It looks like the French may be schooling Obama in how not to surrender. http://app.debka.com/p/article/24479/France-balks-at-the-US-Iranian-deal-on-five-counts-%E2%80%93-not-least-with-an-eye-on-its-Gulf-ties " President Barack Obama failed to shift French President France Hollande from his objections to the nuclear accord taking shape between the US and Iran in the call he put through to the Elysée Friday night, March 30. " Is this news from years ago, or is it "news" written in advance of the facts? (Considering that today is Monday, March 23rd) It's not news, it's a fanciful blog by a couple of Israelis masquerading as a news site. Sort of like a small, Israeli Fox. Shamis communication LTD 53/3 Bar Cochba Jerusalem, Is 97892 Israel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The United States suffered irreparable damage in dealing with the Iran nuclear program due to the Bush administration refusing to negotiate. "We don't negotiate with evil," Dick Cheney said in 2003. "We defeat it." The consequence of this mad approach is noted by the journal Defense One in its discussion of the number of Iran's centrifuges, which is number one on France's present list.... Zero is a fantasy, and you can blame President George W. Bush’s administration for that. It may have been possible to convince Iran to dismantle all its centrifuges when it had only a few dozen in 2003 and first offered to talk to the U.S.. Or in 2005, when it had a few hundred and was in talks with the European Union. But the Bush administration spurned any deal. As a result, the talks collapsed and Iran went from zero centrifuges installed at the beginning of the Bush administration to about 6,000 at the end. There is not a political leader in Iran today that could agree to completely dismantle its nuclear fuel complex. But some, including Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, seem ready to sharply limit it. The key to a solid deal is to couple limits on the number of centrifuges with other limits that prevent Iran from quickly building a bomb should it break the deal. http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2015/02/why-our-obsession-irans-centrifuges-could-give-them-bomb/105660/ Internally, the P5+1 have in fact always been the 3+3. That's France, Germany, UK + United States, Russia, China. Originally known as the EU-3, the European members who started negotiating with Iran in 2002 have their own concerns, and always have had their own concerns -- they have the most sanctions against Iran for the longest time. The US was dragged in to the negotiations in 2006 by China and also Russia, but since the Obama administration took office the US had become the effective chairman of the P5+1. China and Russia are not thrilled about the sanctions but the two came on board after most UN sanctions had been imposed while no new ones by the UN have since been added. The killer sanction to Iran occurred in 2012 when the EU ejected Iran to include its central bank from the SWIFT global electronic banking system based in Belgium and which does $6 Trillion of financial transactions daily. It was only after that that Iran came to the present negotiations. The EU-3 are and always have been the hard liners in this and they will continue to drive the deal as it becomes finalized. So while the EU-3 of the P5+1 want a very tight deal, the EU as a whole led by France want a zero for Iran deal, nothing. China, Russia, the United States want an effective and verifiable deal, meaning establishing a breakout time, which implies neither Russia nor China would object to US military action should Iran renege on an agreement. Russia, China, the US accept an Iran having peaceful use of nuclear energy under threat of internationally supported military action should Tehran step over the line. The break down of the talks at this stage would lead to the worst of all possible worlds. It would repeat the flawed strategy of the Bush administration. In short, as Ilan Goldenberg and Robert Kaplan point out, the United States would be forced “to choose between two terrible options both of which are much costlier than the status quo — pursuing military action against Iran or accepting a nuclear-armed Iran.” http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2015/02/why-our-obsession-irans-centrifuges-could-give-them-bomb/105660/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) If you want to be honest about it, why not go back to the Presidency of Jimmy Carter, who put the sanctions in place to begin with. The US sanctions have been in effect since 1979. Edit in: The EU sanctions were not put in until 2006 when the UN Security Council passed additional sanctions. Edited March 23, 2015 by chuckd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 If you want to be honest about it, why not go back to the Presidency of Jimmy Carter, who put the sanctions in place to begin with. The US sanctions have been in effect since 1979. Edit in: The EU sanctions were not put in until 2006 when the UN Security Council passed additional sanctions. I am being honest about it thx The shah had been tinkering with nuclear energy but we're not back there in the times of Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan who wuz the ayatollahs personal arms dealer and agent and all the rest of it. The far right keeps raging on about how they are certain Prez Obama is causing irreparable damage to the United States blah blah blah, but we have concrete documentation of how the Dubya and his Dick Cheney did indeed and in fact irreparably damage the United States with their warmonger attitudes and policies. "We don't negotiate with evil," Dick Cheney said in 2003. "We defeat it." Let's look further at the record, especially as it affects the matter of centrifuges which is the number one French concern...... The deal now being negotiated between Iran and the six countries known as the P5+1 (the U.S., Great Britain, France, Russia, China and Germany) will reportedly cap the number of centrifuges Iran is allowed to keep. Israeli officials appear to have leaked to the press confidential information provided them by the U.S. that places the number at around 6,500 to 7,000 centrifuges. This would be a sharp drop from the 20,000 machines Iran now has. But that is still too many for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is demanding zero centrifuges. Some experts warned in early 2013, “We estimate that Iran, on its current trajectory, will by mid-2014 be able to dash to fissile material in one to two weeks unless its production of 20 percent-enriched uranium is curtailed.” Its production was curtailed. This is no longer a threat. The interim deal negotiated by the P5+1 in November 2013 effectively drained Netanyahu’s bomb. Iran has eliminated its stockpile of 20 percent uranium gas and has stopped making any more.. http://www.defenseon...em-bomb/105660/ As I'd quoted in a post above that is not quoted in your post, zero centrifuges for Iran as demanded by Netanyahu is an impossibility primarily because Bush and Boyz led by his Dick Cheney said they didn't negotiate with evil, that they defeat evil. In other words, the blind fighting the blind. The direct result is a permanent damage in the present processes and irreversible harm to the purpose and goal of the international community vis a vis Iran and nuclear weapons. The legacy of Bush and his Dick Cheney. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chicog Posted March 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2015 I see Cheney did an interview in which he said Obama was the worst president he'd ever seen. Shame he ever went duck hunting with his own one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 More corroborating evidence that Obama's planned capitulation to Iran is under attack from several sides. We already know that France is unhappy about several aspects of the deal. They are also in active discussion with the Israelis, who Obama has tried to cut out of the loop. http://app.debka.com/p/newsupdate/10854/ They are also in active discussion with the Israelis, who Obama has tried to cut out of the loop. France now is being very careful about any information that is of special interest to PM Netanyahu. Iran nuclear talks: US accuses Israel of 'leaks' 19 February 2015The US has accused Israel of selectively leaking information from the Iran nuclear talks to misrepresent its position in the negotiations. White House spokesman Josh Earnest said that Israel was "cherry-picking" information and using it out of context. On Wednesday, Mr Earnest that the US was mindful of keeping negotiations private because of selective leaks on the part of Israel. "There's no question that some of the things that the Israelis have said in characterising our negotiating position have not been accurate," he said http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31538531 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steely Dan Posted March 24, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2015 It looks like the French may be schooling Obama in how not to surrender. http://app.debka.com/p/article/24479/France-balks-at-the-US-Iranian-deal-on-five-counts-%E2%80%93-not-least-with-an-eye-on-its-Gulf-ties " President Barack Obama failed to shift French President France Hollande from his objections to the nuclear accord taking shape between the US and Iran in the call he put through to the Elysée Friday night, March 30. "Is this news from years ago, or is it "news" written in advance of the facts? (Considering that today is Monday, March 23rd) It's not news, it's a fanciful blog by a couple of Israelis masquerading as a news site. Sort of like a small, Israeli Fox. Shamis communication LTD 53/3 Bar Cochba Jerusalem, Is 97892 Israel The Israeli delegation to France was confirmed a day ago in the Guardian, which should put it firmly on your leftist flat earther radar. What the Guardian failed to mention was that France already has the most problems with the Iranian deal, due to their extensive dealings with the Saudis, as well as their own proximity to Iran. This article from a German newspaper also cites French resistance to the deal, the first comment in the comments section observed, now the U.S state department will accuse Israel of controlling France. I'm sure this accusation will indeed be used by some of our esteemed members should the deal fall through.http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/03/21/report-france-taking-toughest-line-in-iran-nuclear-talks/ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 France has always had the hardest of the hard line in Iran negotiations. Germany has never tried hard to dissuade France and the UK gives France a wide berth. This had been true from the time 2002-06 when the only negotiators were the EU-3 of France, Germany, UK. This has been true since the P5+1 were formed in 2006 adding Russia, China, the United States, If a final agreement can be reached, it should be expected it will be driven by France. Neither the Iranians nor Dick Cheney will like it but what else is new. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard will hate it. Prez Barack Obama will sign it. PM Bibi Netanyahu will wail. It's been pointed out that France almost demolished the negotiations in 2013 when it made the surprise and then-radical demand Iran stop enriching uranium to 20% and stop construction of the Arak heavy-water reactor. After the P5+1 composed themselves and Iran faced the reality of a united P5+1, Tehran did both. The ayatollahs are desperate for a deal and their focus is on lifting all sanctions once a deal is struck. Iran is going to have to face the reality they must accept that only some sanctions will be lifted, the lifting of others put on a schedule, and that everything will depend on Iran's above board behaviors. The elected government in Tehran is ready to sign now, but the ayatollahs have to set the table first by throwing red meat to the extremist mobs in the streets. If things get out of hand and the deal falls through, so be it. If the deal depends however on France smooth talking the ayatollahs to convince them they've won, then it's practically a lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seastallion Posted March 24, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2015 " President Barack Obama failed to shift French President France Hollande from his objections to the nuclear accord taking shape between the US and Iran in the call he put through to the Elysée Friday night, March 30. "Is this news from years ago, or is it "news" written in advance of the facts? (Considering that today is Monday, March 23rd) It's not news, it's a fanciful blog by a couple of Israelis masquerading as a news site. Sort of like a small, Israeli Fox. Shamis communication LTD 53/3 Bar Cochba Jerusalem, Is 97892 Israel The Israeli delegation to France was confirmed a day ago in the Guardian, which should put it firmly on your leftist flat earther radar. What the Guardian failed to mention was that France already has the most problems with the Iranian deal, due to their extensive dealings with the Saudis, as well as their own proximity to Iran. This article from a German newspaper also cites French resistance to the deal, the first comment in the comments section observed, now the U.S state department will accuse Israel of controlling France. I'm sure this accusation will indeed be used by some of our esteemed members should the deal fall through.http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/03/21/report-france-taking-toughest-line-in-iran-nuclear-talks/ So, before I click your link, is this another dubious "news" source that writes stories before they happen? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 France has always put its own interests ahead of everyone else, and that includes its supposed "allies". Probably don't want to queer numerous deals they've got going with the GCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chuckd Posted March 25, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 25, 2015 Our current administration seems to think the Iranian leadership can be trusted to do as they promise. They really need to wake up and smell the roses. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iran isn’t providing needed access or information, nuclear watchdog says By Steven Mufson March 24 at 2:23 PM The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency said that Iran has failed to provide the information or access needed to allay the agency’s concerns about the weapons potential of the country’s nuclear program. With the deadline nearing for international talks on constraining Iran’s nuclear program, Yukiya Amano, director general of the IAEA, said in an interview that Iran has replied to just one of a dozen queries about “possible military dimensions” of past nuclear activities. Amano said that Iran has provided only “very limited” information about two other issues, while the rest have not been addressed at all. Entire article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/un-nuclear-watchdog-iran-not-providing-needed-information-access/2015/03/24/6557b24a-d23d-11e4-8fce-3941fc548f1c_story.html 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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