Giuliani blames Obama for Ferguson shootings, other unrest

[Chicog]

Giuliani is like a teabag that squeaks tripe when you poke it.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

I never quite understood how Obama got the nomination. I have nothing against him, but he seemed relatively untested and unconnected in the political world. The Clintons, on the other hand, are political animals, They work as a pair and they know the political landscape. Obama is sort of out their alone and gets targeted more easily.

Giuliani is quite out of line and if he tried that with more seasoned politicians he'd find himself muzzled, I think.

Why don't you know how Obama got the nomination?

Hillary Clinton and John Edwards were well into tossing Obama into the dust bin, until Edwards was caught with a mistress when he had a dying wife at home.

With the big states already casting their votes on a candidate forced to withdraw, Obama collected delegates from states no one cared about, and then, his handlers at Goldman Sacs spilled the beans on Edwards whom they knew they couldn't control, and Hillary who none of them trust

[NativeSon360]

Why just think if America had only elected John "cant find my rear with both hands" McCain and his trusty sidekick "Scary Sarah "look at my pretty red shoes" Palin then every problem in the entire world would have been fixed long ago...

But since that didn't happen America had yet another chance to vote in Mitt "show me the money" Romney and his moronic sidekick and we could be in a couple more nice wars, maybe even a really good one with China....

But America elected Obama not once but two times.....and the sore losers have done nothing but whine and moan and blame and disrespect Obama from day one. No president has ever had to put up with such disrespect in my life.

Anyone who thinks America is not better off now than the day W left office is in denial or delusional or has fox news playing 24/7.

A bit off-topic, but well written, and certainly worth further consideration. Thank you.

Edited March 15, 2015 by NativeSon360

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed along with replies.

[Bangkok Herps]

Do you think anyone, especially a minority President is going to go on National TV and tell the nation......."See here all ya young ins, yous need to stay home

with cha Moma and Papa at night. Don't be moseying along at night spit'n fire at the poolesae causen' it not nice."

The problem is we have a bunch of low educated people in Ferguson, most on welfare, two generations or more creating havoc. They love to riot, burn, destroy and loot. They are very violent people and do not listen to the police trying to keep piece and order. Then we got people like Al Sharpton who feed off of the riots

like flies on shit. Stirring the pot creating more problems.........Where is the guy now.....he seems awfully quiet! What about Jessy Jackson.....he seems to be out of the picture as well. Giuliani, I suspect is about to throw his his hat in the ring as a potential Candidate for President. Thats why he is getting into the lime light!

I see Daniel Ingalls coming through with the ridiculously racist posts again. This seems to be a pattern.

And, not surprisingly, "Steely Dan, CMNightRider, JDGRUEN and 2 others like this"

The usual suspects.

How can you people claim that inflammatory rhetoric leads to people getting shot, and yet you let such inflammatory rhetoric against entire communities just fly out of your mouth like vomit?

On the actual topic, anyone who knows even a tiny bit about the Ferguson situation knows that the conduct of the city administration and its police are to blame for the unrest. There was unrest in Ferguson long before Obama had even heard of the city, so to blame him for it is beyond ridiculous.

[Publicus]

The rhetoric against Prez Obama and Attorney General Holder has long since reached the level of being incendiary and of being more than suggestive incendiary. This occurs as an unknown number of the most extreme right wingers in the United States continue to spend their weekends in the woods dressed in combat fatigues with assault weapons in live fire exercises or 'games'.

The latest rantings from the far right focus on Ferguson to make the wild claims Prez Obama and AG Holder are the armed assailants, figuratively speaking. I guess the whacko right that says these reprehensible and incendiary words must figure saying them often enough will cause bullets to fly in the opposite direction. If so, this would unquestionably be repugnant.

There is however a significant difference between Giuliani as a self-serving seeker of publicity and the discussion board posts that state directly and unashamedly that Prez Obama and AG Holder caused or even in a sense did the shootings of the police officers in Ferguson municipality. The discussion board posters do not seek publicity in their schemes, they instead want to encourage someone else to stride out and do their dirty work for them.

Reprehensible sedition.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[Bangkok Herps]

I never quite understood how Obama got the nomination. I have nothing against him, but he seemed relatively untested and unconnected in the political world. The Clintons, on the other hand, are political animals, They work as a pair and they know the political landscape. Obama is sort of out their alone and gets targeted more easily.

Giuliani is quite out of line and if he tried that with more seasoned politicians he'd find himself muzzled, I think.

Why don't you know how Obama got the nomination?

Hillary Clinton and John Edwards were well into tossing Obama into the dust bin, until Edwards was caught with a mistress when he had a dying wife at home.

With the big states already casting their votes on a candidate forced to withdraw, Obama collected delegates from states no one cared about, and then, his handlers at Goldman Sacs spilled the beans on Edwards whom they knew they couldn't control, and Hillary who none of them trust

That doesn't make any sense at all. You're just rewriting history.

The primaries started with Obama winning Iowa by a safe margin, with all the candidates at full strength. John Edwards was considered dead in the water by many commentators at that point, since he had sort of gone all-in on winning Iowa and had little strength in the upcoming states.

Hillary came back by barely beating Obama in New Hampshire (they split the delegates evenly), showing that it was still a real race. Edwards finished a distance 3rd with only 4 of the 22 delegates and no one gave him a chance after that.

Nevada came third and was extremely close, with Hillary getting slightly more of the popular vote but Obama getting one more delegate. John Edwards didn't get a single delegate in Nevada.

South Carolina was next, which Obama won easily, as expected. Clinton and Edwards picked up the crumbs, but Edwards was still a distant third. Doing so poorly in the South, fairly close to where he had served as in the US Senate, was the last straw - if he couldn't even beat Obama in Iowa or Clinton in South Carolina, he wasn't going to beat anyone in this race.

To this point, Obama had 63 delegates, Clinton had 48 delegates, and Edwards had only 26 delegates. Edwards suspended his campaign at that point, now having finished in 3rd for every contest, and was a non-factor for the rest of the race.

After that, Obama and Clinton battled to nearly a draw on Super Tuesday, with Obama getting just slightly more delegates than Clinton. Obama and Clinton pulled every single delegate on Super Tuesday, with no other candidates getting anything. Edwards' withdrawal was over and done...he had lost.

The real deciding time was the February 9th-12th races. Obama dominated in Louisiana, Nebraska, Virgin Islands, Washington, Maine, Democrats Abroad, DC, Maryland, and Virginia. With big delegates margins in every one of those states and lots of positive states still to come, it was really over by February 12th except for the press wanting to keep the news cycle flowing and Hillary hoping that Obama would be sunk by some giant scandal. But with a 100+ delegate margin and the Democrat's split-delegate system, there was really no chance for Clinton to catch up at that point.

Other than the National Enquirer (who no one takes seriously), no one had "spilled the beans" on John Edwards until June, long after the race was decided. Until then he had still been considered a valid potential VP candidate, but he had already lost the race way back in January.

Your weird narrative about John Edwards had nothing to do with anything. In fact, Edwards had sided with Obama more often than not in the debates, so saying that he and Clinton were "putting Obama into the dust bin" doesn't even make sense. If anything, it was Obama and Edwards joining forces to pull down Clinton, the establishment candidate and expected victor heading into the race.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[arjunadawn]

Do you think anyone, especially a minority President is going to go on National TV and tell the nation......."See here all ya young ins, yous need to stay home

with cha Moma and Papa at night. Don't be moseying along at night spit'n fire at the poolesae causen' it not nice."

The problem is we have a bunch of low educated people in Ferguson, most on welfare, two generations or more creating havoc. They love to riot, burn, destroy and loot. They are very violent people and do not listen to the police trying to keep piece and order. Then we got people like Al Sharpton who feed off of the riots

like flies on shit. Stirring the pot creating more problems.........Where is the guy now.....he seems awfully quiet! What about Jessy Jackson.....he seems to be out of the picture as well. Giuliani, I suspect is about to throw his his hat in the ring as a potential Candidate for President. Thats why he is getting into the lime light!

I see Daniel Ingalls coming through with the ridiculously racist posts again. This seems to be a pattern.

And, not surprisingly, "Steely Dan, CMNightRider, JDGRUEN and 2 others like this"

The usual suspects.

How can you people claim that inflammatory rhetoric leads to people getting shot, and yet you let such inflammatory rhetoric against entire communities just fly out of your mouth like vomit?

On the actual topic, anyone who knows even a tiny bit about the Ferguson situation knows that the conduct of the city administration and its police are to blame for the unrest. There was unrest in Ferguson long before Obama had even heard of the city, so to blame him for it is beyond ridiculous.

Actually, I hadn't noticed Daniel Ingalls post previously, nor your response. Please do include me proudly with Steely Dan, CMNightRider, JDGruen, and 2 or 1,000 others who self evidently know Daniel Ingalls is correct.

The Attorney General of the US, under the guidance of the Executive, has turned the civil rights section of the Justice Department into community agitators. When a complicated but racially significant case presents itself this Justice Department team is sent in as early as the media enters the fray. The training, lessons, and goals of this team is not to assess whether a civil liberties issue is present (that is done by another section). This team teaches locals how to rally, protest, community organize, make demands, and collate their power into a force multiplier forcing the media to kneel, and then of course the political narrative to be held hostage. This is Holder's Justice Department under Obama. This was first noted when career justice folks saw the New Black Panther Voter Intimation case, which was airtight and ready for prosecution, dismissed with Holder took over.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/06/ex-official-accuses-justice-department-racial-bias-black-panther-case/

http://www.aim.org/guest-column/justice-department-whistleblower-ignored-by-news-media-why/

http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/new-report-doj-hostile-to-civil-rights-for-whites/

http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news211.htm

I have not read this book but apparently when I type a search for the topic of my above post this clearly shows my observation is at least shared by others as well. http://www.amazon.com/Injustice-Exposing-Racial-Justice-Department/dp/1596982772

It is probably true that in some US locations municipal if not county areas are still fairly prejudiced- both my observation is both ways! I have seen fairly nonstop black bias toward whites throughout my life. Yet, there may be a smidgen of truth to the assertion that Ferguson police may have some profiling history. Well, in a majority black community where the crimes are committed by the majority black community you would be more inclined to both arrest and profile the majority black community. Throughout the US the majority of crimes against blacks are committed by... blacks! In the particular Ferguson case, there is hardly a valid suggestion that the unfortunately killed black man was not a thug. He was a thug and any who have ever been in these neighborhoods knows exactly what I describe- a ghetto, tribal clique that is violent, aggressive, and a very real threat. Numerous cities in the US have increased black on white crime as well. (See White Girl Bleed A Lot). http://whitegirlbleedalot.com/

Holder's agitators in the Justice Department deploy and actually teach people how to protest and agitate, and the US taxpayer pays for this (all without having the chance of due process of law first). Obama's constant interjection in US racial relations are provocative, biased, ill informed, and agitate globally from the Bully Pulpit.

[Bangkok Herps]

You do realize, ArjunaDawn, that the Black Panther case happened until BUSH'S watch and the that BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them before Obama was even sworn in. Of course you do - it's been posted a dozen times in the last two weeks. So why aren't you using that as an example of the ridiculous pro-Black bias of the Bush Administration?

Because it would be ridiculous. Bush's AG dropped criminal charges, Obama's AG dropped civil charges, both of them thought it was a relatively meaningless case that lacked significant elements (like an actual claimant testifying that they had been denied their voting rights), and no body cared except for the right-wing fringe with their constant desire to drum up a Black vs. White story in order to continuing enacting the celebrated Southern Strategy and pick up those racist votes.

[Ulysses G.]

You do realize, ArjunaDawn, that the Black Panther case happened until BUSH'S watch and the that BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them before Obama was even sworn in.

This is as inaccurate as most of what you post in the World News forum. Under the Bush administration, a criminal investigation into the incident was started, but later dropped. No one was charged. However, before the Bush administration left office, the civil rights division of the Department of Justice filed a civil suit. The lawsuit accused the Black Panthers of using uniforms, racial insults and a weapon to intimidate voters and those who were there to assist them. It was the Obama administration that dismissed the charges completely.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

The outright demented, deranged distortions and deviations of the far right from the reality of the Justice Department's quiet work in Ferguson is pointed out by these contentious statements and reports. So the truth does in fact come out....

As the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports, the DoJ has a flying team authorized by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that immediately relocates to communities that have erupted in crisis.

The purpose of the team is to work quietly and modestly to mediate, negotiate, de-escalate.

The DoJ department that houses the peacemakers does not commit itself to every city in every instance of a community disturbance or disruption. The situation in Ferguson was from the outset exactly the kind of highly volatile situation in a shattered community that the DoJ and its peacemaker team engages.

Sinister attributions to the contrary are as deranged and as radically dishonest as anything that comes from the militant, out of bounds deviant whacko right to include Fox.

The Justice Department's soft side: How one federal agency hopes to change Ferguson

The peacemakers arrived on a Sunday. It was a little more than a day after Michael Brown’s shooting.

Since then, as many as eight have worked behind the scenes in Ferguson daily. They’ve held dozens of meetings with police, residents and community leaders, nearly all of them in secret. They have run town hall meetings closed to all but residents. They often ask attendees not to name names or talk specifics.

The Community Relations Service calls itself the nation’s peacemaker. Leaders say their field workers have, for more than 50 years, responded to racial rifts and unrest in American cities — from public school desegregation in the 1970s to post-9/11 backlash against Arab-Americans to the unrest in Sanford in 2012.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/the-justice-department-s-soft-side-how-one-federal-agency/article_591a2e64-7dd1-5008-b300-0ab9ad8b9168.html

[Bangkok Herps]

Yet, there may be a smidgen of truth to the assertion that Ferguson police may have some profiling history. Well, in a majority black community where the crimes are committed by the majority black community you would be more inclined to both arrest and profile the majority black community.

That you would connect that assertion to the Ferguson report suggests that either you did not read it or you did not understand it.

Your excuse does not match the facts. It isn't just that Black people were getting profiled and pulled over. It isn't just that the police were disproportionately using force (especially tasers and dogs) against Black people by a wide margin. It wasn't even just the internal acceptance of racist emails in city channels that suggested background to those facts.

There was a ton of data that can't be explained by your suggestion.

Why were Black people who had been pulled over more than twice as likely as White people to be searched, even though White people were significantly more likely to have contraband found on them?

Why did serious, provable traffic crimes (like DUIs) show no racial disparities, while vague, minor, unproveable crimes (like "Manner of Walking" and "Failure to Obey") showed by far the largest racial disparities, with White people 600% to 800% less likely to be charged with them?

Why did speeding tickets proven with radar guns only show a comparatively minor racial disparity, while speeding tickets proven only with the officer's judgement showed a 50% greater racial disparity?

Why were Black people 70% less likely to have their cases dismissed and 300% less likely to have their cases voided after those cases had already reached the courts?

Why did White people never once get dogs sic'd on them (even though a young Black boy guilty of nothing other than hiding scared in an abandoned house did), and almost never got tasers used on them, even though White people were involved in some serious, violent incidents (like the giant bar fight related in the report), where they refused to obey the officers, committed serious violence to the point of biting someone's ear off, and required physical intervention by multiple offices to be gotten under control? Meanwhile, Black people who demonstrably showed no threat (as proven by taser videos), who had not been charged with any other crime, or who were sitting in a police car or confined alone inside a jail cell had tasers used on them repeatedly, when it has been clearly shown that they could not have posed a physical threat to anyone.

It's not just the profiling. There was a lot in the report that suggested specific bias that had no advantage to public safety.

[sirineou]

You do realize, ArjunaDawn, that the Black Panther case happened until BUSH'S watch and the that BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them before Obama was even sworn in.

This is as inaccurate as most of what you post in the World News forum. Under the Bush administration, a criminal investigation into the incident was started, but later dropped. No one was charged. However, before the Bush administration left office, the civil rights division of the Department of Justice filed a civil suit. The lawsuit accused the Black Panthers of using uniforms, racial insults and a weapon to intimidate voters and those who were there to assist them. It was the Obama administration that dismissed the charges completely.

You are saying the same thing Mangkok Herps said only you used Large funds for the Obama administration

so let's see

"using uniforms, racial insults and a weapon to intimidate voters and those who were there to assist" were grounds for a civil case and the black loving Obama administration refused to procedure, but not ground for a criminal case which the Bush administration rightly dismissed???

wait wait

[F430murci]

The rhetoric against Prez Obama and Attorney General Holder has long since reached the level of being incendiary and of being more than suggestive incendiary. This occurs as an unknown number of the most extreme right wingers in the United States continue to spend their weekends in the woods dressed in combat fatigues with assault weapons in live fire exercises or 'games'.

The latest rantings from the far right focus on Ferguson to make the wild claims Prez Obama and AG Holder are the armed assailants, figuratively speaking. I guess the whacko right that says these reprehensible and incendiary words must figure saying them often enough will cause bullets to fly in the opposite direction. If so, this would unquestionably be repugnant.

There is however a significant difference between Giuliani as a self-serving seeker of publicity and the discussion board posts that state directly and unashamedly that Prez Obama and AG Holder caused or even in a sense did the shootings of the police officers in Ferguson municipality. The discussion board posters do not seek publicity in their schemes, they instead want to encourage someone else to stride out and do their dirty work for them.

Reprehensible sedition.

Nope, this occurred when people with common sense that are not even political simply used the power of observation and common sense.

Even democrats such as I that voted for Obama realized we had been duped and had made a serious mistake in 2012.

Obama and Holder have done nothing but fuel these issues and create more hate and racial divisiveness.

I swear, Obama hates white people deep down inside and will do anything to reduce their voice and voting power even if it is horrible for the country as a whole such as letting in millions of uneducated and poor Central Americans and absolutely horrible people from various African countries that are lazy, uneducated, dishonest and do nothing but drain our system and scam out elderly citizens just as they do when they reach Thailand or other countries. Yet, Obama welcomes them in with open arms and keeps hard working, educated and intelligent people out from Asian and Eastern European countries.

[Bangkok Herps]

The other issue that doesn't fit your "profiling against Black people is justified" excuse is the fact that the vast majority of warrants and arrests of Black people were not for "crimes".

Internal Ferguson documents proved that the focus of police activity was NOT public safety and was NOT catching criminals. The focus of police activity was to make money for the city coffers. That is shown time and time again in the internal emails and policies.

So when you see that Black people were disproportionately targeted, and you know that police activity was just focused on making money...you see how much more unjust the whole situation is. Black people were targeted because they were vulnerable to targeting, NOT because they were committing crimes that required a police response. The courts adjudicated the cases as they did because they were trying to get as much money for the city as possible, NOT because they were interested in dealing out justice or keeping the city safe.

The vast majority of warrants issued in Ferguson were for failing to pay a fine on time, or for missing a court date. The vast majority of the initial infractions that led to those arrests were parking tickets, traffic tickets, minor housing violations, and made-up police judgement calls for things like "Manner of Walking", "Failure to Comply", and "Failure to Obey". The vast majority of the 3 warrants/household that Ferguson was giving out last year were for infractions that would almost never warrant jail time in normally-run communities. Over and over Black people were arrested in situations that clearly violated their 1st and 4th Amendment rights.

If the 9,000 warrants that Ferguson issued last year were for actual crimes, then maybe you could try to make a case. But they weren't. Most of them were for things that would never warrant jail time in other places, and 95% of the warrants that had started with simple parking and traffic infractions were made against Black people in the community.

That's why it seems so oppressive.

[Bangkok Herps]

The rhetoric against Prez Obama and Attorney General Holder has long since reached the level of being incendiary and of being more than suggestive incendiary. This occurs as an unknown number of the most extreme right wingers in the United States continue to spend their weekends in the woods dressed in combat fatigues with assault weapons in live fire exercises or 'games'.

The latest rantings from the far right focus on Ferguson to make the wild claims Prez Obama and AG Holder are the armed assailants, figuratively speaking. I guess the whacko right that says these reprehensible and incendiary words must figure saying them often enough will cause bullets to fly in the opposite direction. If so, this would unquestionably be repugnant.

There is however a significant difference between Giuliani as a self-serving seeker of publicity and the discussion board posts that state directly and unashamedly that Prez Obama and AG Holder caused or even in a sense did the shootings of the police officers in Ferguson municipality. The discussion board posters do not seek publicity in their schemes, they instead want to encourage someone else to stride out and do their dirty work for them.

Reprehensible sedition.

Nope, this occurred when people with common sense that are not even political simply used the power of observation and common sense.

Even democrats such as I that voted for Obama realized we had been duped and had made a serious mistake in 2012.

Obama and Holder have done nothing but fuel these issues and create more hate and racial divisiveness.

I swear, Obama hates white people deep down inside and will do anything to reduce their voice and voting power even if it is horrible for the country as a whole such as letting in millions of uneducated and poor Central Americans and absolutely horrible people from various African countries that are lazy, uneducated, dishonest and do nothing but drain our system and scam out elderly citizens just as they do when they reach Thailand or other countries. Yet, Obama welcomes them in with open arms and keeps hard working, educated and intelligent people out from Asian and Eastern European countries.

How is it that having a few token Black people involved is somehow proof that the Tea Party isn't racist (as was just claimed by a poster today), but the fact that the Obama administration is completely full of White people, including, you know, VP Biden and SecState Kerry, someone doesn't insulate Obama's administration from those ridiculous charges?

Letting Herman Cain give meaningless speeches PROVES that no one else in the movement is racist, but making Hillary Clinton and John Kerry among the most powerful people in the country doesn't show anything at all about the very man who put them there. Right.

It's like the hate-mongerers don't realize that the vast majority of people working in the administration are WHITE, along with most of the people in the Democratic Party that's working alongside Obama, especially the leaders.

Not to mention, you know.....Obama's just as White as he is Black. His mom's White. He was raised by White folk from Kansas. He grew up in a White neighborhood. Went to mostly White universities. Seriously dated White girls for long periods of time. And has worked extremely closely with White people for his entire freaking career. And was voted into office twice with a lot more White votes than Black/Brown votes combined. Just like every president before him.

You people with this Black-White race war nonsense are fools and you will continue to die out more in every generation.

[sirineou]

The rhetoric against Prez Obama and Attorney General Holder has long since reached the level of being incendiary and of being more than suggestive incendiary. This occurs as an unknown number of the most extreme right wingers in the United States continue to spend their weekends in the woods dressed in combat fatigues with assault weapons in live fire exercises or 'games'.

The latest rantings from the far right focus on Ferguson to make the wild claims Prez Obama and AG Holder are the armed assailants, figuratively speaking. I guess the whacko right that says these reprehensible and incendiary words must figure saying them often enough will cause bullets to fly in the opposite direction. If so, this would unquestionably be repugnant.

There is however a significant difference between Giuliani as a self-serving seeker of publicity and the discussion board posts that state directly and unashamedly that Prez Obama and AG Holder caused or even in a sense did the shootings of the police officers in Ferguson municipality. The discussion board posters do not seek publicity in their schemes, they instead want to encourage someone else to stride out and do their dirty work for them.

Reprehensible sedition.

Nope, this occurred when people with common sense that are not even political simply used the power of observation and common sense.

Even democrats such as I that voted for Obama realized we had been duped and had made a serious mistake in 2012.

Obama and Holder have done nothing but fuel these issues and create more hate and racial divisiveness.

I swear, Obama hates white people deep down inside and will do anything to reduce their voice and voting power even if it is horrible for the country as a whole such as letting in millions of uneducated and poor Central Americans and absolutely horrible people from various African countries that are lazy, uneducated, dishonest and do nothing but drain our system and scam out elderly citizens just as they do when they reach Thailand or other countries. Yet, Obama welcomes them in with open arms and keeps hard working, educated and intelligent people out from Asian and Eastern European countries.

used bold to highlight word

OH Ok, If you swear.... whiy did you not say so earlier in this Thread, it would have eliminated a lot of unnecessary discourse

[F430murci]

The other issue that doesn't fit your "profiling against Black people is justified" excuse is the fact that the vast majority of warrants and arrests of Black people were not for "crimes".

Internal Ferguson documents proved that the focus of police activity was NOT public safety and was NOT catching criminals. The focus of police activity was to make money for the city coffers. That is shown time and time again in the internal emails and policies.

So when you see that Black people were disproportionately targeted, and you know that police activity was just focused on making money...you see how much more unjust the whole situation is. Black people were targeted because they were vulnerable to targeting, NOT because they were committing crimes that required a police response. The courts adjudicated the cases as they did because they were trying to get as much money for the city as possible, NOT because they were interested in dealing out justice or keeping the city safe.

The vast majority of warrants issued in Ferguson were for failing to pay a fine on time, or for missing a court date. The vast majority of the initial infractions that led to those arrests were parking tickets, traffic tickets, minor housing violations, and made-up police judgement calls for things like "Manner of Walking", "Failure to Comply", and "Failure to Obey". The vast majority of the 3 warrants/household that Ferguson was giving out last year were for infractions that would almost never warrant jail time in normally-run communities. Over and over Black people were arrested in situations that clearly violated their 1st and 4th Amendment rights.

If the 9,000 warrants that Ferguson issued last year were for actual crimes, then maybe you could try to make a case. But they weren't. Most of them were for things that would never warrant jail time in other places, and 95% of the warrants that had started with simple parking and traffic infractions were made against Black people in the community.

That's why it seems so oppressive.

Wake the <deleted> up. Every police force in the US is constantly under pressure to get out and write ticket or issue citations to help get money for city to meet operating budgets. This happened in all communities, not just black communities and perhaps even more so in white communities.

The instruction is not make up violations of city ordinances. The message is enforce city ordinances. I can say unequivocally and without any doubt whatsoever that after being on the force for a while, cops do not want to and avoid writing tickets and citations. They hate the paperwork and it is hassle. They are given quotas because otherwise some of the very good and more senior cops in small communities would not write and tickets or citations.

Failure to appear for traffic fines will get a warrant for your butt whether you are white, black, green, yellow, purple or alien. So why then is not Holder and Obama investigating all white smaller communities where the cops are given the exact same directives about tickets and citations? simple. Because there would be the same findings and then they could not use that as a race directed issue.

[F430murci]

The rhetoric against Prez Obama and Attorney General Holder has long since reached the level of being incendiary and of being more than suggestive incendiary. This occurs as an unknown number of the most extreme right wingers in the United States continue to spend their weekends in the woods dressed in combat fatigues with assault weapons in live fire exercises or 'games'.

The latest rantings from the far right focus on Ferguson to make the wild claims Prez Obama and AG Holder are the armed assailants, figuratively speaking. I guess the whacko right that says these reprehensible and incendiary words must figure saying them often enough will cause bullets to fly in the opposite direction. If so, this would unquestionably be repugnant.

There is however a significant difference between Giuliani as a self-serving seeker of publicity and the discussion board posts that state directly and unashamedly that Prez Obama and AG Holder caused or even in a sense did the shootings of the police officers in Ferguson municipality. The discussion board posters do not seek publicity in their schemes, they instead want to encourage someone else to stride out and do their dirty work for them.

Reprehensible sedition.

Nope, this occurred when people with common sense that are not even political simply used the power of observation and common sense.

Even democrats such as I that voted for Obama realized we had been duped and had made a serious mistake in 2012.

Obama and Holder have done nothing but fuel these issues and create more hate and racial divisiveness.

I swear, Obama hates white people deep down inside and will do anything to reduce their voice and voting power even if it is horrible for the country as a whole such as letting in millions of uneducated and poor Central Americans and absolutely horrible people from various African countries that are lazy, uneducated, dishonest and do nothing but drain our system and scam out elderly citizens just as they do when they reach Thailand or other countries. Yet, Obama welcomes them in with open arms and keeps hard working, educated and intelligent people out from Asian and Eastern European countries.

used bold to highlight word

OH Ok, If you swear.... whiy did you not say so earlier in this Thread, it would have eliminated a lot of unnecessary discourse

Wow, that is impressive and insightful.

[sirineou]

The other issue that doesn't fit your "profiling against Black people is justified" excuse is the fact that the vast majority of warrants and arrests of Black people were not for "crimes".

Internal Ferguson documents proved that the focus of police activity was NOT public safety and was NOT catching criminals. The focus of police activity was to make money for the city coffers. That is shown time and time again in the internal emails and policies.

So when you see that Black people were disproportionately targeted, and you know that police activity was just focused on making money...you see how much more unjust the whole situation is. Black people were targeted because they were vulnerable to targeting, NOT because they were committing crimes that required a police response. The courts adjudicated the cases as they did because they were trying to get as much money for the city as possible, NOT because they were interested in dealing out justice or keeping the city safe.

The vast majority of warrants issued in Ferguson were for failing to pay a fine on time, or for missing a court date. The vast majority of the initial infractions that led to those arrests were parking tickets, traffic tickets, minor housing violations, and made-up police judgement calls for things like "Manner of Walking", "Failure to Comply", and "Failure to Obey". The vast majority of the 3 warrants/household that Ferguson was giving out last year were for infractions that would almost never warrant jail time in normally-run communities. Over and over Black people were arrested in situations that clearly violated their 1st and 4th Amendment rights.

If the 9,000 warrants that Ferguson issued last year were for actual crimes, then maybe you could try to make a case. But they weren't. Most of them were for things that would never warrant jail time in other places, and 95% of the warrants that had started with simple parking and traffic infractions were made against Black people in the community.

That's why it seems so oppressive.

Wake the <deleted> up. Every police force in the US is constantly under pressure to get out and write ticket or issue citations to help get money for city to meet operating budgets. This happened in all communities, not just black communities and perhaps even more so in white communities.

The instruction is not make up violations of city ordinances. The message is enforce city ordinances. I can say unequivocally and without any doubt whatsoever that after being on the force for a while, cops do not want to and avoid writing tickets and citations. They hate the paperwork and it is hassle. They are given quotas because otherwise some of the very good and more senior cops in small communities would not write and tickets or citations.

Failure to appear for traffic fines will get a warrant for your butt whether you are white, black, green, yellow, purple or alien. So why then is not Holder and Obama investigating all white smaller communities where the cops are given the exact same directives about tickets and citations? simple. Because there would be the same findings and then they could not use that as a race directed issue.

What you are saying is true, but I am afraid more so in economically depressed communities as an attempt in revenue enhancement. It is unfortunate, and I do agree with you not racily motivated

I do have some sympathy for the police there

In the case of Ferguson it became public in the light of the racily motivated riots and as such action has to be taken

It is not a case Of the Obama administration purposely targeting Furguson,and not targeting others. I am sure the Obama administration would rather have nothing to do with this.But do to the media attention they have to act in the only option available to them, You are not suggesting that they investigating every community in the US

Now to say that everyone does it does not make it right, and is no defense\

Try using this defense next time you are pulled over by a cop for speeding, and see how far it get's you,

[sdanielmcev]

The other issue that doesn't fit your "profiling against Black people is justified" excuse is the fact that the vast majority of warrants and arrests of Black people were not for "crimes".

Internal Ferguson documents proved that the focus of police activity was NOT public safety and was NOT catching criminals. The focus of police activity was to make money for the city coffers. That is shown time and time again in the internal emails and policies.

So when you see that Black people were disproportionately targeted, and you know that police activity was just focused on making money...you see how much more unjust the whole situation is. Black people were targeted because they were vulnerable to targeting, NOT because they were committing crimes that required a police response. The courts adjudicated the cases as they did because they were trying to get as much money for the city as possible, NOT because they were interested in dealing out justice or keeping the city safe.

The vast majority of warrants issued in Ferguson were for failing to pay a fine on time, or for missing a court date. The vast majority of the initial infractions that led to those arrests were parking tickets, traffic tickets, minor housing violations, and made-up police judgement calls for things like "Manner of Walking", "Failure to Comply", and "Failure to Obey". The vast majority of the 3 warrants/household that Ferguson was giving out last year were for infractions that would almost never warrant jail time in normally-run communities. Over and over Black people were arrested in situations that clearly violated their 1st and 4th Amendment rights.

If the 9,000 warrants that Ferguson issued last year were for actual crimes, then maybe you could try to make a case. But they weren't. Most of them were for things that would never warrant jail time in other places, and 95% of the warrants that had started with simple parking and traffic infractions were made against Black people in the community.

That's why it seems so oppressive.

A crime is any illegal activity. Misdemeanor and felony are the terms you should be using.

[sirineou]

The rhetoric against Prez Obama and Attorney General Holder has long since reached the level of being incendiary and of being more than suggestive incendiary. This occurs as an unknown number of the most extreme right wingers in the United States continue to spend their weekends in the woods dressed in combat fatigues with assault weapons in live fire exercises or 'games'.

The latest rantings from the far right focus on Ferguson to make the wild claims Prez Obama and AG Holder are the armed assailants, figuratively speaking. I guess the whacko right that says these reprehensible and incendiary words must figure saying them often enough will cause bullets to fly in the opposite direction. If so, this would unquestionably be repugnant.

There is however a significant difference between Giuliani as a self-serving seeker of publicity and the discussion board posts that state directly and unashamedly that Prez Obama and AG Holder caused or even in a sense did the shootings of the police officers in Ferguson municipality. The discussion board posters do not seek publicity in their schemes, they instead want to encourage someone else to stride out and do their dirty work for them.

Reprehensible sedition.

Nope, this occurred when people with common sense that are not even political simply used the power of observation and common sense.

Even democrats such as I that voted for Obama realized we had been duped and had made a serious mistake in 2012.

Obama and Holder have done nothing but fuel these issues and create more hate and racial divisiveness.

I swear, Obama hates white people deep down inside and will do anything to reduce their voice and voting power even if it is horrible for the country as a whole such as letting in millions of uneducated and poor Central Americans and absolutely horrible people from various African countries that are lazy, uneducated, dishonest and do nothing but drain our system and scam out elderly citizens just as they do when they reach Thailand or other countries. Yet, Obama welcomes them in with open arms and keeps hard working, educated and intelligent people out from Asian and Eastern European countries.

used bold to highlight word

OH Ok, If you swear.... whiy did you not say so earlier in this Thread, it would have eliminated a lot of unnecessary discourse

Wow, that is impressive and insightful.

almost as insightful as

" Obama hates white people deep down inside and will do anything to reduce their voice and voting power even if it is horrible for the country as a whole such as letting in millions of uneducated and poor Central Americans and absolutely horrible people from various African countries that are lazy, uneducated, dishonest and do nothing but drain our system and scam out elderly citizens just as they do when they reach Thailand or other countries."

I am sure you were not serious when you said that and as such I attempted to insert some humor my self

I am sorry if my comment was not as funny as yours

[Publicus]

You do realize, ArjunaDawn, that the Black Panther case happened until BUSH'S watch and the that BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them before Obama was even sworn in.

This is as inaccurate as most of what you post in the World News forum. Under the Bush administration, a criminal investigation into the incident was started, but later dropped. No one was charged. However, before the Bush administration left office, the civil rights division of the Department of Justice filed a civil suit. The lawsuit accused the Black Panthers of using uniforms, racial insults and a weapon to intimidate voters and those who were there to assist them. It was the Obama administration that dismissed the charges completely.

In the New Black Panther Party case, which began on election day 2008 at a Philadelphia voting station, the Bush Justice Department closed the criminal investigation it had opened against the Panthers because it had concluded a criminal case would be weak in court.

Two weeks before Prez Obama took office on Jan 20, 2009 the Bush DoJ filed civil charges against four Panthers under the Voting Rights Act.

These actions occurred during the transition of government from one administration to the other.

They also occurred in the context of two reports that already had been issued, one by the Government Accountability Office, the other by the DoJ Inspector General, both of which found that enforcement of anti-discrimination laws had been significantly reduced, and that the Bush administration had systematically loaded up DoJ career management positions with identifiably political conservatives with identifiably conservative backgrounds. Each inspector point out the latter is in direct violation of civil service laws.

The bottom line is that the Bush DoJ found that criminal charges did not apply to the facts of the case in a court of law, which is why the Bush DoJ closed the criminal investigation without lodging any criminal charges.

The bottom line is that the Obama DoJ found that civil charges filed subsequently by the Bush DoJ also would be weak in court so it dropped the civil charges. It agreed to the court injunction against on Panther who carried board but had not used it at the polling station. No local or state charges had been filed so the NBPP members were released of legal liability

The "racial insult" the poster referred to was to say to a voter: "You're going to be governed by a black man, cracker!"

After all the blue smoke and mirrors involved in the winding and torturous case had cleared and all charges had been dropped, the Washington Post summed up the whole of it in an editorial by its Editorial Board, which concluded...

Right call on the Black Panthers

Monday, October 4, 2010

Much of the controversy that has surrounded this case for more than a year has been fueled by partisan hyperbole, conspiracy theories and misinformation. Far from acting recklessly, the Justice Department did what every law enforcement entity is ethically obligated to do: press only those charges that are supported

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/03/AR2010100303620.html

[Bangkok Herps]

The other issue that doesn't fit your "profiling against Black people is justified" excuse is the fact that the vast majority of warrants and arrests of Black people were not for "crimes".

Internal Ferguson documents proved that the focus of police activity was NOT public safety and was NOT catching criminals. The focus of police activity was to make money for the city coffers. That is shown time and time again in the internal emails and policies.

So when you see that Black people were disproportionately targeted, and you know that police activity was just focused on making money...you see how much more unjust the whole situation is. Black people were targeted because they were vulnerable to targeting, NOT because they were committing crimes that required a police response. The courts adjudicated the cases as they did because they were trying to get as much money for the city as possible, NOT because they were interested in dealing out justice or keeping the city safe.

The vast majority of warrants issued in Ferguson were for failing to pay a fine on time, or for missing a court date. The vast majority of the initial infractions that led to those arrests were parking tickets, traffic tickets, minor housing violations, and made-up police judgement calls for things like "Manner of Walking", "Failure to Comply", and "Failure to Obey". The vast majority of the 3 warrants/household that Ferguson was giving out last year were for infractions that would almost never warrant jail time in normally-run communities. Over and over Black people were arrested in situations that clearly violated their 1st and 4th Amendment rights.

If the 9,000 warrants that Ferguson issued last year were for actual crimes, then maybe you could try to make a case. But they weren't. Most of them were for things that would never warrant jail time in other places, and 95% of the warrants that had started with simple parking and traffic infractions were made against Black people in the community.

That's why it seems so oppressive.

A crime is any illegal activity. Misdemeanor and felony are the terms you should be using.

Wrong. Growing your grass too long is not a misdemeaner or a felony. A parking ticket is not a misdemeanor or a felony. Most traffic tickets are merely infractions, not misdemeaners or felonies. Being too poor to pay a fine is not a misdemeanor or a felony. If you look up a report on crime in America, these things will not be listed.

[Bangkok Herps]

The other issue that doesn't fit your "profiling against Black people is justified" excuse is the fact that the vast majority of warrants and arrests of Black people were not for "crimes".

Internal Ferguson documents proved that the focus of police activity was NOT public safety and was NOT catching criminals. The focus of police activity was to make money for the city coffers. That is shown time and time again in the internal emails and policies.

So when you see that Black people were disproportionately targeted, and you know that police activity was just focused on making money...you see how much more unjust the whole situation is. Black people were targeted because they were vulnerable to targeting, NOT because they were committing crimes that required a police response. The courts adjudicated the cases as they did because they were trying to get as much money for the city as possible, NOT because they were interested in dealing out justice or keeping the city safe.

The vast majority of warrants issued in Ferguson were for failing to pay a fine on time, or for missing a court date. The vast majority of the initial infractions that led to those arrests were parking tickets, traffic tickets, minor housing violations, and made-up police judgement calls for things like "Manner of Walking", "Failure to Comply", and "Failure to Obey". The vast majority of the 3 warrants/household that Ferguson was giving out last year were for infractions that would almost never warrant jail time in normally-run communities. Over and over Black people were arrested in situations that clearly violated their 1st and 4th Amendment rights.

If the 9,000 warrants that Ferguson issued last year were for actual crimes, then maybe you could try to make a case. But they weren't. Most of them were for things that would never warrant jail time in other places, and 95% of the warrants that had started with simple parking and traffic infractions were made against Black people in the community.

That's why it seems so oppressive.

Wake the <deleted> up. Every police force in the US is constantly under pressure to get out and write ticket or issue citations to help get money for city to meet operating budgets. This happened in all communities, not just black communities and perhaps even more so in white communities.

The instruction is not make up violations of city ordinances. The message is enforce city ordinances. I can say unequivocally and without any doubt whatsoever that after being on the force for a while, cops do not want to and avoid writing tickets and citations. They hate the paperwork and it is hassle. They are given quotas because otherwise some of the very good and more senior cops in small communities would not write and tickets or citations.

Failure to appear for traffic fines will get a warrant for your butt whether you are white, black, green, yellow, purple or alien. So why then is not Holder and Obama investigating all white smaller communities where the cops are given the exact same directives about tickets and citations? simple. Because there would be the same findings and then they could not use that as a race directed issue.

Again, simply false. There were 9,000 warrents in a town of only 21,000 people (counting kids). There was more than 1 warrent per household. That is NOT the norm anywhere in America.

Read the report. Ferguson city officials BRAGGED that there were only 6 municipalities out of 89 in the region who were getting more than $1 million in income from court fees, and they were pulling in $2 million and growing.

"Failure to appear for traffic fines will get a warrant for your butt whether you are white, black, green, yellow, purple or alien."

False.

I got a red-light ticket that I never answered because I was out of the country. I never appeared in court. Never told them why I didn't go because I didn't even know they sent it. Later on, they made the ticket larger because I didn't show up for the court date I didn't know I had. I mailed in the payment...and that was that. I never got a warrent.

That was NOT an option in Ferguson. They forced people to show up to court to resolve even mundane fines, made it almost impossible to contest the fines, impossible to remove the fine by fixing the problem, and impossible to do community service or anything else in place of a fine. They charged the highest fines in the region and, against Supreme Court precedent, failed to take into account those who were too poor to pay the fines. They made it extremely difficult to resolve your ticket, the only information available online was false, and until the report started they charged numerous unconstitutional fees and add-ons to the original fees that other communities in the area simply did not charge.

Again, read the freaking report unless you want to keep spout stuff that is totally at odds with the information in the report. I already quoted extensively from the relevant portion in another thread - the stuff going down in Ferguson was not anywhere near the norm.

"I can say unequivocally and without any doubt whatsoever that after being on the force for a while, cops do not want to and avoid writing tickets and citations. They hate the paperwork and it is hassle."

Then why is it that cops in the report state that there were contests to see who could give the most tickets out in the single stop, and that police were sometimes giving as many as 14 tickets out in a single traffic stop? That happens everywhere in America? I've never gotten more than ONE ticket in a single stop, even when I was doing more than one thing wrong. In fact, in most of my stops even where I was speeding or made an illegal turn, I was let off without a ticket.

[Ulysses G.]

You do realize, ArjunaDawn, that the Black Panther case happened until BUSH'S watch and the that BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them before Obama was even sworn in.

This is as inaccurate as most of what you post in the World News forum. Under the Bush administration, a criminal investigation into the incident was started, but later dropped. No one was charged. However, before the Bush administration left office, the civil rights division of the Department of Justice filed a civil suit. The lawsuit accused the Black Panthers of using uniforms, racial insults and a weapon to intimidate voters and those who were there to assist them. It was the Obama administration that dismissed the charges completely.

You are saying the same thing Mangkok Herps said

You are truly adept at posting large number of stupid smileys, but not so swift in the reading department. I did NOT say the same thing as Mangkok Herps [sic] .

The Bush administration decided to file civil charges, which the Obama administration dismissed. No criminal charges were ever filed or dropped, but Mangkok Herps [sic] claimed that the "BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them".

[sirineou]

You do realize, ArjunaDawn, that the Black Panther case happened until BUSH'S watch and the that BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them before Obama was even sworn in.

This is as inaccurate as most of what you post in the World News forum. Under the Bush administration, a criminal investigation into the incident was started, but later dropped. No one was charged. However, before the Bush administration left office, the civil rights division of the Department of Justice filed a civil suit. The lawsuit accused the Black Panthers of using uniforms, racial insults and a weapon to intimidate voters and those who were there to assist them. It was the Obama administration that dismissed the charges completely.

You are saying the same thing Mangkok Herps said

You are truly adept at posting large number of stupid smileys, but not so swift in the reading department. I did NOT say the same thing as Mangkok Herps [sic] .

The Bush administration decided to file civil charges, which the Obama administration dismissed. No criminal charges were ever filed or dropped, but Mangkok Herps [sic] claimed that the "BUSH White House dropped criminal charges against them".

The Bush administration instructed the justice department not to peruse criminal charges for the reasons stated by Bangkok Herps in his very well researched analysis

in a politically Cynical move , they filed Civil charges at the eleventh hr of their administration knowing very well that the Obama administration would not pursue it for the same reasons that they did not peruse criminal charges

but they could use it as propaganda to gain the support of simpletons such as you.

<snip>

Edited March 16, 2015 by Jai Dee
flame removed

[sirineou]

Note to Ulysses

even though you called my smiles stupid and highlighted the misspelling of Bangkok Herps name as if it had some significance

I should not had called you a Simpleton I am sorry for that

[Ulysses G.]

Ps: I am glad to hear that the only thing you can find fault with my replies are the smiles:

You mean other than the fact that your comrade falsely claimed that the "BUSH White House dropped criminal charges", when none were ever filed and you backed him up on it?