Thai cardamoms

[Kanga Japan]

I understand that Thai cardamoms are often used in massaman curry (central Thai version).

Can anyone tell me what they are called in Thai (with the Thai script). I know that the general word for cardamom is KRAWAN (กระวาน) or KRAWAN THET (กระวานเทศ) and that LUK KRAWAN (ลูกกระวาน) means cardamom pods, or cardamom seeds.

Thank you for your help.

[AyG]

We need to deal with three types of cardamom:

- Green cardamom (true cardamom)
- Black cardamom
- Thai cardamom

The first two are common in Indian cuisine, whilst the last is pretty much exclusive to Thai cuisine AFAIK.

Green cardamom is Elettaria cardamomum
Black cardamom is Amomum costatum or Amomum subulatum
Thai cardamom is Amomum kravanh

So, Thai cardamom is closely related to the Indian black cardamom.

Thai cardamom seed pods are spherical and pale coloured, and the seeds are black. The taste of the seeds is rather medicinal. (It reminds me of TCP.) Not as delicate as green cardamom.

When I first started cooking Thai food in Thailand I used the green cardamoms since that's what I had in my spice rack brought from the UK. I later switched to using Thai cardamoms, but to be honest, I prefer the taste and aroma of the Indian green variety.

The two Indian varieties aren't used in Thai cooking to the best of my knowledge, so when Thai people use กระวาน they are referring to Amomum kravanh. However, (according to Wikipedia) if they want to be specific they'll say กระวานไทย for Amomum species, whilst using กระวานเทศ to refer to Elettaria cardamomum. Source: http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99 (เทศ, of course, means foreign or alien, as in tomatoes.)

You may also want to have a look at http://tinyurl.com/l4h9olm . (I love Khun Suthon Sukphisit's writing.)

p.s. Good to see you back in action.

[tolsti]

Thanks AyG.... Very interesting link

[Pla shado]

Yes, excellent reply AyG. I've learned a great deal from the Kanga Japan treads.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

I appreciate your 'welcome back'. It's good to be back.

Thank you so much for the excellent reply to CARDAMOMS. I am in agreement with tolsti and Pla shado. I could not have asked for more. Just to summarise:

Green cardamom

Scientific name: Elettaria cardamomum

Referred to in Thai as: กระวานเทศ KRAWAN THET

Common English names: green cardamom, true cardamom

Black cardamom

Scientific name: Amomum costatum or Amomum subulatum

Referred to in Thai as: กระวานไทย KRAWAN THAI

Common English names: black cardamom, Nepal cardamom, Indian cardamom, Bengal cardamom

Thai cardamom (white):

Scientific name: Amomum kravanh (apparently originating from the Krâvanh Mountains ทิวเขาบรรทัด - literally 'cardamom mountains, in south-west Cambodia)

Referred to in Thai as: กระวานไทย KRAWAN THAI

Common English names: Thai cardamom, Siam cardamom, round cardamom

I hope that my understanding is correct.

The article by Khun Suthon Sukphisit was great and the comments about BAI KRAWAN intrigued me and I would like to start a new post relating to this.

Again, thank you for your help, as always.

[Kanga Japan]

Thanks Pla shado,

I only ask the questions - AyG is the one who does all the hard work and provides the excellent replies.

[AyG]

The only things I'd quibble with are:

(1) I'm not sure (but don't know) that Thai people would refer to black cardamoms as KRAWAN THAI. I rather doubt they have any exposure to them, and doubt they have a name for them. (Even in England where Indian food is pretty common they are a rarity - not stocked by most (all?) supermarkets.) Perhaps a native speaker can help.

(2) White cardamoms are something different. They're green (true) cardamoms which have been bleached outside. Can be ignored for current purposes.

(Never understood this shell bleaching thing. Bought a bag of pistachios in their shells here a year or two ago. Japanese brand. The shells has been bleached white. The kernels tasted OK - not great, rather dry - but for me the unnatural shell colour was a turn-off. To be honest, I don't remember an obsession of bleaching shells when I worked in Japan. Do you see it around? Perhaps it's a recent development.)

Hadn't heard of the Krâvanh Mountains. The Thai translates as straight (ruler-like) mountain range.

[Kanga Japan]

Thank you for your confirmation AYG.

1) BLACK CARDAMOMS

Frankly, I was a bit concerned about referring to the black cardamoms as KRAWAN THAI. I think I should just refer to them as KRAWAN THET, as they are foreign in origin.

2) WHITE CARDAMOMS

What are the colour of Thai cardamoms? I assume that they are round in shape, as compared with standard spindle-shaped cardamoms. They are often called 'round cardamoms'.

Here is an article regarding the 'Cardamom Mountains'. I see that the Thai name does not have any connection to 'cardamoms'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardamom_Mountains

Regarding the pistachios in Japan, the ones I see at the shops are usually beige, or white in colour. We hardly ever see any green ones.

[AyG]

Thank you for your confirmation AYG.

1) BLACK CARDAMOMS

Frankly, I was a bit concerned about referring to the black cardamoms as KRAWAN THAI. I think I should just refer to them as KRAWAN THET, as they are foreign in origin.

2) WHITE CARDAMOMS

What are the colour of Thai cardamoms? I assume that they are round in shape, as compared with standard spindle-shaped cardamoms. They are often called 'round cardamoms'.

Here is an article regarding the 'Cardamom Mountains'. I see that the Thai name does not have any connection to 'cardamoms'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardamom_Mountains

Regarding the pistachios in Japan, the ones I see at the shops are usually beige, or white in colour. We hardly ever see any green ones.

Personally, I'd just drop reference to the black cardamoms. Not particularly familiar in the West, or in Thailand.

Thai cardamoms are pretty much spherical. They're also a bit larger than green cardamoms. They are pale in colour (I'd say beige or ecru, but then I'm not a fashion designer.) They're not the rugby-ball shape of green cardamoms.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Good idea. I'll drop the reference to black cardamoms.

Thanks for the description of the Thai cardamoms.