Overstay Rules

[CiaranO]

Have the new overstay rules come into affect or has Phuket immigration jumped the gun yet again.

http://www.phuketimmigration.go.th/main.php

[digitalchromakey]

Not yet, but Phuket Immigration have been getting applicants for extensions to sign acknowledging said overstay penalties since mid last year!

[ubonjoe]

Not approved yet and probably never will be.

[CiaranO]

It's a real shame that communication is so poor within the immigration department.

[dddave]

When I renewed my Non-O and Retirement Extension yesterday at Chang Wattana, I was required by the Immigration officer to read and sign that same form spelling out the new conditions and penalties for overstaying.

Large signs listing the new overstay rules and penalties are prominently displayed at the entrance to the Immigration offices and next to the information desk.

I think they are serious about it.

Edited March 26, 2015 by dddave

[ubonjoe]

They have been awaiting approval of them since May of last year. It they were going to approved it would of been done long ago.

[CiaranO]

from what Ubonjoe says i believe he is right. It just shows you what no one is really running these places. Having people signing laws that dont exist - posting said laws on their website etc.

Its real cowboy stuff

[SoFarAndNear]

I see correct? You have 1 day overstay and get caught by police and will be banned 5 years?

[Tessellation]

Like many things in government policies (for many governments around the world) this might be a case of having the regulations in place IF they feel they need/want to enforce it in the future, or in specific scenarios.

Lucky for overstayers, they're erring on the side of non-enforcement, so there's not much to complain about. (Who is going to complain that they overstayed and DIDN'T get banned for 1+years??)

I think that if there were certain conditions, such as a particularly undesireable person that they didn't want back in the country after a long overstay, then they would use these regulations to have a legitimate reason to ban the person from Thailand for a period.

As another poster has said, Chaeng Wattana in BKK asks (at least some) people to sign a form acknowledging these regulations, and they have signs posted explaining them.

My experience is limited to BKK, but I can say I've personally never heard of it being enforced yet.

[lust]

I still don't understand the significance of signing the acknowledgment of overstay... If you sign and overstay, are they going to find your signature and and be extra angry compared to someone who has been overstay since before this new law tried to squeeze in? No signature.. What does it mean!!

[Tessellation]

Its not really a "new" policy, its been around for almost a year now. I was concerned about it when I payed an overstay fine last summer.

from what Ubonjoe says i believe he is right. It just shows you what no one is really running these places. Having people signing laws that dont exist - posting said laws on their website etc.

Its real cowboy stuff

I would say regulations/policies, not "laws" (yes they are often the same thing, but not always). I don't know about Phuket, but Cheang Wattana in BKK is very defined and consistent in my experience dealing with them over a broad range of topics.

I see correct? You have 1 day overstay and get caught by police and will be banned 5 years?

Only if you're "apprehended". If you turn yourself in at a border, it would be 90+ days overstay to get a 1 year ban.

Overstays have always had this distinction. If you turn yourself in you pay the fine, if they catch you before you get to the border it would likely mean jail. This "new" policy is being planned similarly.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Tessellation

[Tessellation]

I still don't understand the significance of signing the acknowledgment of overstay... If you sign and overstay, are they going to find your signature and and be extra angry compared to someone who has been overstay since before this new law tried to squeeze in? No signature.. What does it mean!!

"You can't say we didn't tell you so" sums it up. Avoids bad publicity/PR, lawsuits, etc from indignant overstayers faced with a ban. Its the same at many jobs, you'll sign paperwork saying "I've read my employee handbook and understand all company rules, regulations, and what is expected of my job performance". Believe it or not, there are legal reasons for this in nuances of international law.

Bureaucracy: "Welcome to the machine."

[lust]

good news for overstayers who arrived here prior to these changes lol

[Suradit69]

from what Ubonjoe says i believe he is right. It just shows you what no one is really running these places. Having people signing laws that dont exist - posting said laws on their website etc.

Its real cowboy stuff

You aren't signing a law. You're acknowledging that you are aware of the potential penalties. Whatever the current law is, you are breaking it by overstaying and even at this point you could be arrested and will be fined.

If they didn't warn you and then the law was enacted, everyone would be moaning that they were given no warning. Hardly cowboy stuff. If anything they are ensuring that everyone realizes that overstaying can/could be a serious thing to do. Given the number of people posting on TV about being on overstay it seems a very reasonable thing for them to do to wake everyone up to the fact that overstay is illegal and has consequences.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Suradit69

[jspill]

spelling out the new conditions and penalties

Raising awareness of proposed new conditions and penalties that never went into effect

[Tessellation]

spelling out the new conditions and penalties

Raising awareness of proposed new conditions and penalties that never went into effect

Raising awareness of established conditions and penalties that can go into effect any time they want to enforce it against an individual, for whatever reason they choose. Just because they haven't chosen to enforce it yet does not mean they aren't already enforceable. Just because they let people slide it doesn't mean the rule isn't legitimate. Exceptions do not imply exemption.

[paz]

You aren't signing a law. You're acknowledging that you are aware of the potential penalties. Whatever the current law is, you are breaking it by overstaying and even at this point you could be arrested and will be fined.

If they didn't warn you and then the law was enacted, everyone would be moaning that they were given no warning. Hardly cowboy stuff. If anything they are ensuring that everyone realizes that overstaying can/could be a serious thing to do. Given the number of people posting on TV about being on overstay it seems a very reasonable thing for them to do to wake everyone up to the fact that overstay is illegal and has consequences.

Deterring by scaring with empty threats. Does not seem appropriate for a country.

[NoshowJones]

It's a real shame that communication is so poor within the immigration department.

I don't think it's anything to do with communication. The boss loves the power to make his own rules, If a IMO boss finds one office won't allow that, then he will and vice versa.

Banks are the same, one boss comes in, changes the rules. Yes, it's all to do with power, they just love it.

[elviajero]

No.

For now the only thing to be concerned about is getting caught by the police with an overstay.

[csabo]

I still don't understand the significance of signing the acknowledgment of overstay... If you sign and overstay, are they going to find your signature and and be extra angry compared to someone who has been overstay since before this new law tried to squeeze in? No signature.. What does it mean!!

I didn't sign off on the homicide law either. Safe to assume that does not give me a green light to commit a murder. Stop being ridiculous.

Edited March 26, 2015 by csabo

[jacko45k]

from what Ubonjoe says i believe he is right. It just shows you what no one is really running these places. Having people signing laws that dont exist - posting said laws on their website etc.

Its real cowboy stuff

Well of course one doesn't need to sign any paperwork to be subject to laws.

I just worry that immigration now have what appears to be a contract I have signed agreeing to punitive measures not prescribed by law that they could impose on me at any time.

[jspill]

spelling out the new conditions and penalties

Raising awareness of proposed new conditions and penalties that never went into effect

Raising awareness of established conditions and penalties that can go into effect any time they want to enforce it against an individual, for whatever reason they choose. Just because they haven't chosen to enforce it yet does not mean they aren't already enforceable. Just because they let people slide it doesn't mean the rule isn't legitimate. Exceptions do not imply exemption.

No, as moderators have posted before, to enforce them would first require a change to the immigration act of 1979 which stipulates the maximum penalties. They're not already enforceable.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/801613-harsh-overstay-rules-ever-enforced/#entry9089956

[lust]

I still don't understand the significance of signing the acknowledgment of overstay... If you sign and overstay, are they going to find your signature and and be extra angry compared to someone who has been overstay since before this new law tried to squeeze in? No signature.. What does it mean!!

I didn't sign off on the homicide law either. Safe to assume that does not give me a green light to commit a murder. Stop being ridiculous.

*facepalm... What a great comparison.

[tropo]

It's a real shame that communication is so poor within the immigration department.

This can often be an advantage...

[gilo]

If the intention was to sound a warning shot over people who were here on overstay then at least in my case I heeded it and bit the bullet to step forward to face the repercussions. I left when there was a particularly frenzied level of uncertainty in August last year as to whether the rules were in force or not. I signed the acknowledgement of the overstay rules both on departure and again on my return. but on departure although the officials were rightly nonplussed at the length of my overstay (11 years) nevertheless they were professional and courteous (as I hope so was I) and I paid the 20k fine and was told I was not blacklisted on that occasion. On my return I was re-admitted after questioning and basically though warned to not overstay even one day in the future the I/O did allow me in visa exempt. I am now here on a visa and was in fact extremely grateful that immigration gave me and no doubt many others the opportunity to clear their overstays. I have had to extend visas and re-enter on a number of occasions and so long as my paperwork was in order the immigration officers, both at the borders and Chaeng Wattana, have not held it against me. In fact despite it sitting very prominently in what was a new passport they have (thankfully) never even mentioned it -thus far! To be fair to them I found immigration to be totally helpful and professional as I was mentally prepared for the proverbial book to have been thrown at me. I was not required to appear before a judge, nor was I detained at the airport or the dreaded IDC I paid my fine and signed the papers and boarded my flight. So for any over-stayers reading this I urge you to sort it out while immigration is still allowing it.