Advice please: Australia partner visa subclass 820/821 for defacto Thai GF already in Australia

[peter888]

Hi guys

I'd be grateful for any tips on my situation - in summary I think I will need to apply for a partner visa for my Thai GF, who is currently living with me in Australia on a student visa. I am looking for insights on the process, any pitfalls and any possible alternatives.

Key facts:

• I have been separated from my ex-wife for 10 years, but never got around to formalising the divorce (I intend to do that ASAP now). We have two teenage children who spend around 40% of the time living with me, under shared costs and custody. Our finances are completely separate.

• My girlfriend has been in Australia since July 2011 on a student visa, subclass 572. In that time she has completed (or will) two diploma level courses at private colleges.

• She planned to extend her student visa by enrolling in a third diploma course for 2016, however she has recently been advised this is not possible. To continue on a student visa for 2016 and beyond, she would have to enrol in a tertiary degree course at an Australian university. This would incur very high international student fees, more than she or I can afford.

• Her current student visa expires in November 2015.

• I have no experience with visa matters, but my basic research suggests our only option might be to apply for a Partner Visa subclass 820/821. This is a visa designed for people already living in Australia in a de facto relationship.

• Here is a link with details of the subclass 820/821 visa https://www.immi.gov.au/Visas/Pages/801-820.aspx

• We met here in Australia via online dating in May 2012 and have been in a relationship since then, ie our three-year anniversary will be May 2015. She is 12 years younger than me.

• She formally moved into my house around August 2014. She has paid rent since then into a separate bank account I set up for that purpose. For some time PRIOR to August 2014, she used my house as her mailing address, eg for bank statements, official correspondence.

• We have travelled overseas together and share activities, social life with friends etc as required for the Partner Visa. She has a good relationship with my children.

• The relationship is genuine and strong, HOWEVER I am only considering applying for a Partner Visa if there is no other viable option that would allow her to stay in Australia. If she had been able to continue in Australia on student visas, I would have accepted that and continued the relationship. I do want her to stay her with me, but I was happy to see how the relationship developed over the next couple of years or so, before making other decisions.

• She works part-time, as allowed under a student visa, as a cleaner.

• The Partner Visa subclass 820/821 seems to have two stages: 1. A temporary visa for two years and 2. A permanent visa after two years. The Immigration Department makes two decisions, two years apart – one on a temporary visa, the other on a permanent visa.

• This two-year temporary period is one aspect I need more information about – what happens if the relationship breaks down over that time?

• Concerning my assets (mainly a house), does my girlfriend have any claim on these, or will she at a later stage?

• Assuming the Partner Visa is my only viable option, do I need an agent and how much would that cost? I would be happy to handle this without an agent unless I really need one.

Thanks to those who read this far,

Pete

[krisb]

It's possible she will be able to lay some claim to your house. It will only be what she has put into it, certainly not 50% of it, but this is up to a judge.

Because you will be the sponsor, if the relationship fails, you can end the sponsorship. She will be deported soon after. Then if she can afford the legalities of lawyers etc, good luck.

You don't need a visa service to fill in the forms, it's not that hard really, most of us did it ourselves. It takes a while to get approved, I think around 10 months? Maybe more.

The permanent visa is simple compared to the first application. Couple pages of basic questions, another police clearance and that's about it. Costs no more money, takes a couple weeks for an answer.

Edited March 30, 2015 by krisb

[krisb]

You could always "sell" your house to your kids before the visa. Then you pay your kids "rent".

[Will27]

It's possible she will be able to lay some claim to your house. It will only be what she has put into it, certainly not 50% of it, but this is up to a judge.

Because you will be the sponsor, if the relationship fails, you can end the sponsorship. She will be deported soon after. Then if she can afford the legalities of lawyers etc, good luck.

You don't need a visa service to fill in the forms, it's not that hard really, most of us did it ourselves. It takes a while to get approved, I think around 10 months? Maybe more.

The permanent visa is simple compared to the first application. Couple pages of basic questions, another police clearance and that's about it. Costs no more money, takes a couple weeks for an answer.

If the relationship ends, you will need to let Immigration know.

It will then be between Immigration and your partner. She will not

necessarily be removed from Australia. Many lodge a domestic violence

complaint which in a lot of cases, allows people to stay.

All of the costs are on Immigrations website.

[peter888]

Thanks very much krisb - I didn't know about the 10-month wait you mentioned.

Given my GF is already in Australia but her student visa will have expired, how would that 10-month period work? Would she have to return to Thailand while the application is processed or is there a bridging visa?

Thanks also to you Will27, I will check out the costs for the application. And glad to hear I don't have to pay an agent! Hopefully I don't have to ever face unfounded allegations of DV, what a bloody nightmare that would be.

Cheers.

[Will27]

No probs.

Just make sure your girlfriends visa doesn't have 8503 No Further Stay condition on it.

She will be put on a bridging visa A until the application is processed. If she needs to travel,

she will need to apply for a bridging visa B.

[krisb]

Read some of this...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/736813-aussie-partner-processing-wait-times/

[Larz2013]

The waiting time for onshore applications is 12-15 months, off shore is said to be increased to the same.

We used an agent, still waiting for the answer. We are 10 months on the 5th April.

[peter888]

Thanks again for the info on waiting times Larz2013, Will27 and krisb.

It seems we face around three years total before permanent residency is achieved, assuming there are no other problems.

Its an interesting experience to be starting down this road - but great to have the perspective of others who have travelled ahead of us.

[Bcgardener]

Don't know if it's any help but we went through the same process about 16 years ago and it doesn't sound like it has changed much. Student to bridging to permanent in two steps. I found it to be a straightforward procedure as long as the relationship is genuine and you bury them with paperwork to support this. In our case we were interviewed separately and asked a series of questions that only a genuine couple could answer. As I said it's pretty easy if you are genuine.

[peter888]

Thanks Bcgardener, that's good to hear.

No doubt we are genuine - we are a happy loving couple. Probably the only thing might be that we keep generally separate finances, although we do share many costs. I'm hoping that won't be an issue. At my age and with responsibilities for two kids, hopefully they will see that as understandable.

I'm not sure we can 'bury' them in paperwork, but should be able to get statements from family and friends, many photographs, travel records etc. Plus a paper trail with bank payments since my GF moved in with me.

[Bcgardener]

A joint bank account is a good idea. Not all money needs to go through it but some. It shows trust in the relationship. This was recommended to us by a Thai friend who worked there.

[peter888]

Thanks again, Bcgardner, I will give that some serious thought.

Must admit though, even when I was married my ex-wife and I kept separate accounts.

With my GF, currently she pays a modest amount into a dedicated account in my name. I pay mortgage (of course the house is mine), bills, renovations etc. We share some food and other costs. I pay more overall, but it feels pretty fair for both of us given disparities in income. Money has never been an issue.

She is actually paying off an apartment that she bought off the plan in Bangkok, so that's one asset she has locked in for the future.

[simple1]

OP: I have been assiting a Thai friend with Oz citizenship with his Thai GF application for 820 visa.

Much to my amazement GF orginally entered Oz, with their baby, on a 3 month tourist visa. Three weeks prior to end of tourist visa we submitted application for 820 visa & Oz citizenship by descent for baby. Baby was granted citizenship within a few weeks. GF was immediately granted Bridging Visa A, now 12 months later processing officer has contacted her by email for some additional detail and expect decision in coming month, so all told around 13 months wait time.

NB: Oz Immi website claims elapsed processing time is between 12 - 15 months. Be aware current application cost for 820 visa at time of submission is now $6865.00

http://www.immi.gov.au/Help/Pages/fees-charges/visa.aspx

Application and supporting doco is submitted electronically.

http://www.immi.gov.au/services/pages/immiaccount.aspx

EDIT: Doco can be uploaded when it becomes available such as Stat Decs, medical and police clearence certificate. Evidence of shared finances is required & best to have a joint bank account with some transaction flow.

Edited April 4, 2015 by simple1

[peter888]

Hi Simple1, I have been away so just saw your post. Thanks very much for the info, very useful as you have recent experience with the same process.

I had no idea application fee was so high! Will need to prepare for that.

I guess - given you make the same point as previous posters - I will have to open a joint transaction account.

Cheers

[bureaucrazy]

Hey peter888

IMO the partner visa is the best (only?) option for you.

I'm really not an expert on this stuff.. but I thought it was possible to get a bridging visa while you're waiting on the decision to come back.

If you break up with her during that 2 year temporary visa period then that visa would be cancelled.

Re: the house, don't take advice on that stuff from random internet strangers, sadly it's usually wildly inaccurate (sorry @krisb..). Cough up the money for a face to face with a family lawyer so you know where you stand. Based on advice I've received in the past, a good lawyer could land her a slice of the house 2 years after the date your relationship began (not the date she moved in). Her migration status is completely irrelevant.

For the love of everything holy don't sell your house to the kids and rent it back. Not only would this not protect the house from a settlement, but would ensure you (your kids, anyway) pay a bunch of tax for living in your own home.

[simple1]

Hi Simple1, I have been away so just saw your post. Thanks very much for the info, very useful as you have recent experience with the same process.

I had no idea application fee was so high! Will need to prepare for that.

I guess - given you make the same point as previous posters - I will have to open a joint transaction account.

Cheers

It would also be constructive to establish a Will for your Australian assets & name GF beneficiary for some of those assets; if circumstances change can be updated or establish a new Will. If memory is correct it's suggested by Immi in order to support the application.

Just my personal opinion, but describing GF's cost contribution for the house as rent in your application is not a good idea, rather wording such as 'shared contribution'.