Thailand admits 'urgent' need to improve aviation safety

[transam]

Fink it should have said/read.......... "Road Safety"..............Well lets start at the beginning eh....... ....

[JonnyF]

It's really great to see that this will be addressed now that revenue is clearly at stake. Reassuring to see the priorities are still 100% aligned.

But now I begin to wonder how other countries can manage this without Article 44? Because it's seems clear that this is essential for fixing the problem...

[Suffinator]

And people often have asked me why I don't fly with any of the Thai based operators.

Let's be honest flying for most is worrying enough without having the knowledge that it's being run by stupid people who really don't care.

Thailand has been long heading down a path that leads to no return and yet just to save face they blindly keep walking. It is of course their own country and if they want to sink it it is of course entirely up to them and if they are capable of nothing else they at least we know they are capable of plunging a country into complete and utter disarray.

[fareastguy]

"Quote"

Earlier in the day the minister had said Thailand was warned about its aviation management after an earlier ICAO audit in 2005. "(They) asked us to improve our systems. I understand we have to improve urgently."

Thainess in full operation, ignore the warning for 10 years & only do something when the "arse pocket" is effected....
T.I.T

[lucky11]

These people simply are not proactive, are they? Always "react" after the lights are turned on.

Thank the lord for article 44. and well done Prayuth for tackling this problem so expeditiously!!

Can you honestly imagine what Yingluck would have done in the circumstances? I know actually. She would of said "please don't worry everything will be OK in the end" (her usual blind faith stance when she hasn't got a clue what's going on or what to do about it), followed by don't panic you have my assurance on this" then on to the phone to Thaksin and - "how many shares do we jointly own in the affected airlines"?

Prayuth may not have had any experience like Yingluck when he embarked on this thankless task but boy, is he learning fast!! If he can avert his unhelpful bleatings to the press then he will do better than I thought he was capable of.

I hope that all of you 'article 44.' doom mongers are appreciative of the power of this article when placed in safe hands!!

[Alwyn]

he's mad

[bangon04]

Transport Min sets up 2 panels to fix aviation glitches in 6-8 months

Wow, 2 panels.

I guess it can all be forgotten about for another ten years then.

The panels might not do anything to fix the actual problems, but they will undertake lots and lots of serious research into how the standards are upheld in other countries. Lots of overseas expenses paid factfinding trips for the next 2 years for "key" members of staff . They will be so well-informed about what Thailand is doing wrong, they will probably not want to come back - a least not on a Thai plane....

[farangmick]

Easily sorted. Just hang more amulets in the cockpit, and invite foreign experts to view them to put their minds at rest.

[lavender19]

I hope Prayuth uses his powers to tackle the root problems and makes sure that the Thai Department of Civil Aviation is staffed by competent people. What we don't want is a whitewash and the blaming of "unfriendly" reports.

I also suggest Prayuth looks into the maintenance of military aircraft - their planes and helicopters seem to fall out of the sky with alarming frequency.

The problem is .Where in Thailand to find a competent person as sadly I have had to employ Thai's for years and I am still searching for one with an ounce of competence.

[steveyinasia]

Get a FOREIGN CEO for BOTH Thai Airways and AOT. There are currently no Thais with the experience in raising the standards in this area. After a few years, standards will be up and Thais can take over. That was Singapore's success formula. Always go for the best, regardless of nationality.

It will never happen, Thai don't want nor do they think they need, foreign assistance in any area.

[steveyinasia]

Transport Min sets up 2 panels to fix aviation glitches in 6-8 months

Wow, 2 panels.

I guess it can all be forgotten about for another ten years then.

Two panels, this is serious.....

[Alwyn]

"Listen up all you countries.. I'm using my immense power so smarten yourself up and give me back those routes or I'll section 44 all of you too"

[flyswat]

The "Root Cause" of Thailands problems has been their incredably restrictive General Aviation laws for many years. This has led to a shortage of trained Thai pilots and trained airservice staff.

The restrictions to aircraft ownership (such as only a single owner can fly a private aircraft). General Aviation Flying of light aircraft in Thailand both private flying and light aircraft commercial charter has all but stopped. Healthy growth of the private and commercial "general Aviation sector" In Western countries employs a huge number of skilled people, and provides the basic training and experience for entry into the airline industry via the private pilot license, Commercial pilot license and then Air transport pilot license path. X Military pilots have a different skill set and do not always fit the requirements of Commercial RPT flying.

A healthy general aviation sector also helps educates people with the skills and knowledge necessary to become Air Traffic Controllers and a myriad of Aviation skilled positions, plus provides a healthy local charter industry, sports and leasure flying.

[cookee68]

thai airways and many "normal" thais , act like that...

do nothing, unless someone tells them

see it everyday with our maid ...

there is work to do, just some simple cleaning of this or that , that is dirty

if you don't write it down on a piece of paper, she just ignores it ...

get rid off her then, a good maid knows what needs doing

[Dustdevil]

Get the problem sorted. How get inexperienced people to do it, only interested in whats in it for me.

Look at Emirates First class airline, using qualified experienced foriegners as top management.

Time for Thai airways to wake up. Get the pigs out of the trough.

Naw... have the Malaysians come up and sort everything out.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

just waiting for the Thai response....the ICAO is not our father!!!

[MobileContent]

Let Changi Airport buys a controlling interest in the AOT and tings could be solved in now time.

The AEC makes it possible to hire other ASEAN staffs such as Singaporean to get this issue resolved in no time.

As for THAI I think they are still ok and no bird lately full of the sky so the problem might be Orient Thai and AOT

[fgmr]

Transport Min sets up 2 panels to fix aviation glitches in 6-8 months

BANGKOK, 31 March 2015 (NNT) – The Ministry of Transport has decided to establish two committees to solve problems in the Department of Civil Aviation and to handle impacts from the international aviation regulator’s concerns over Thailand’s safety standards.

Following the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)’s voicing of concerns over the safety standards of the Thai aviation industry based on its previous examinations, Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong stated that Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has designated the matter as a national issue. He pointed out that appropriate actions need to be taken in a timely manner otherwise the nation’s economy and tourism could be damaged.

Therefore, the Transport Ministry has resolved to set up two working committees, one of which is to oversee the tackling of the problem at its root cause, particularly the restructuring of the Department of Civil Aviation, employment of more qualified specialists, increasing of budgets and amendment of laws. Chaired by Minister Prajin, the committee will convene on a weekly basis to follow up on the progress made and will submit a report to the ICAO every two weeks.

The other committee will be responsible for mitigating the effects of the ICAO’s downgrade of Thailand’s safety rating. It will coordinate with all sectors in creating an understanding with the international community concerning Thailand’s commitment to improving its air safety standards.

The setting up of the two committees is due to be proposed to the Prime Minister for approval within 45-60 days. The Ministry of Transport has expressed confidence that the issue surrounding aviation safety will be resolved within 6-8 months.

The ICAO’s safety concerns have prompted Japan as well as China and South Korea to issue a ban on all charter flights from Thailand. Last week, the Transport Ministry already dispatched officials to clarify the situation to the Japan Civil Aviation Bureau. More clarifications are to be made to other countries, including China, South Korea, Australia and Germany.

-- NNT 2015-03-31

45 to 60 days just to seek approval from the PM. Presumably no corrective actions begin before this. Resolution within another 4 to 6 months. Does anyone really believe this crap? Meanwhile choose your airline wisely, but who is turning these aircraft around at Thai airports?

[Oziex1]

The Thais have been very lax on this issue but why has the ICAO allowed 10 years to pass before applying pressure?

Did they in fact instigate action over this or was it the action of other countries threatening not to allow Thai airlines landing permission at their Airports.

​Can someone add some clarity to this for me thanks.

[Oziex1]

The Thais have been very lax on this issue but why has the ICAO allowed 10 years to pass before applying pressure?

Did they in fact instigate action over this or was it the action of other countries threatening not to allow Thai airlines landing permission at their Airports.

​Can someone add some clarity to this for me thanks.

[weegee]

Upsetting all this hey?....not much use shutting the gate after the horse has bolted....

This should never have been an issue....It will flatten Thai Air and anyone associated with a Airline Company in Thailand.

The hole is getting deeper?

[Fairynuff]

My goodness how they love a panel here. Does anyone really expect anything to genuinely be done? Nothing will be done until they're dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Bring in foreign expertise, pretend you're listening, pretend to do everything they say, send them away and carry on as normal. After all what do foreigners know anyway. As long as we (think) we save our face we're ok. The fact that we get mocked...who cares anyway....it's those foreign dummies.

[Srikcir]

When the Chinese government becomes concerned about human safety, you know things have gotten out of hand.

But maybe the Chinese, who seem masters at long-range planning and misdirection, are using their action as leverage to get a better deal on the dual rail project or get further concessions through their 2014 military security agreement with the Junta. If you see the Junta make some sudden economic or military concessions to the Chinese and the flight bans are coincidentally lifted, you'll know.

[Srikcir]

Issues in eight areas include personnel licensing and training, airworthiness assessment and certification, accident investigation and airline operations oversight. Thai Airways may have to be recertified!

These issues can't be addressed and resolved in a month, possibly not even in a year any more than the Junta can make rain. A rushed mishmash of actions under Article 44 will not give Thailand a pass on the issues. Thai airports better get used to seeing more foreign carriers that comply with aviation safety standards to take up the passenger load lost by Thai airlines. I'm sure the foreign carriers will appreciate the revenue boost.

[ALFREDO]

SAFETY?

The luggage you -check in- on smaller airports in TH and on Don Muang which goes into the belly of the planes is checked, x-rayed, before you go to the counter and check in, a sticker on the case-luggage shows that.

That -sticker- should be placed in a way, so that you cannot open the bag again without damaging the sticker.

Surely, only, wishful thinking, my small bag has 3 -opening zips- cannot secure all with one sticker.

More than once, I went out of the check in zone in Udon Thani and Don Muang with checked baggage and security stickers on, could have given something inside my bag again, sneaked in the Ceck In zone and with my unbroken security stickers could have brought something into the planes belly what should not be there.

Slightly off topic, DON MUANG -

1st

So extremly long ways by foot to some planes, crazy, also I saw just some days ago, they seem to install new people movers.

2nd

Its overcrowded already that part what is open now, should open more, not enough Restaurants, ect and sitting possibilties.

Overcrowded same the new Suvarnabhumi, would be surprised to get to know, where they would put all that people in one airport - Suvarnabhumi? Impossible!

Edited March 31, 2015 by ALFREDO

[cookee68]

Thailand and safety just do not go together,

[asean]

This is serious stuff on a national and international level and may just be the catalyst that finally makes Thailand take a good inward look at it's administrative practices and culture. There no "saving face" check box on the auditors reports for international airline safety standards. If I already have decided to not fly Thai again then imagine how many others there will be. This is going to hurt.

[AlQaholic]

They need to urgently get Nine monks to come and sprinkle holy water on the organisation, say prayers and then get the fortune tellers to say all will be ok! and don't forget the amulets in the cockpits...

[Lee4Life]

I'm actually shocked there hasn't been an outpouring of bile at the press for actually reporting this....it could cost millions of lost revenue don't ya know, are you gonna pay??

Then again it wasn't the FAA, if it was TVF would be awash with vitriol telling those evil 'americans to stop meddling lol

I was wondering what was missing from this thread! Just couldn't put a finger on it until I read your post

[bushpilot]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

REGULATORY SYSTEM OVERHAUL
Article 44 to be used to fix aviation woes
SUCHAT SRITAMA,
ANAPAT DEECHUAY
THE NATION

Govt vows to overhaul regulatory system in 2 to 8 months; fears of limits on flights from Thailand

BANGKOK: -- PRIME MINISTER General Prayut Chan-o-cha's will use the immense power given to him by invoking Article 44 of the interim charter to address substandard Department of Civil Aviation procedures that may lead to the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) downgrading its rating.

Prayut, who will have sweeping powers under Article 44 as the head of the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), said the department would be promptly made the adhere to the ICAO's standards after the regulatory system was neglected by previous governments.

He said the ICAO had audited the Department of Civil Aviation for years and had found the country had about 300,000 flights a year regulated by just 12 officers.

But he said the number of flights had increased to 600,000 annually, but there were still only 12 officers.

When he asked the department’s director general what had happened, he said he was told the department had proposed to restructure its organisation, amend its laws and increase its manpower and budget, but the process did not happen because of ignorance.

Prayut said he would use Article 44 in a |creative way to get the job done faster.

A committee would be set up to solve this problem and that would be a faster method than using a traditional process, which would have required Cabinet and National Legislation Assembly approval.

The government is scrambling to find urgent solutions to solve the problem, promising to overhaul the substandard regulatory system within two to eight months.

At a press conference yesterday, Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong said that it was Prayut who wanted the issue solved within that timeframe.

The Civil Aviation Department, which is in charge of airline licensing, will be overhauled as its limited capacity cannot cope with air traffic growth, Prajin said.

Short-term measures include keeping foreign countries that Thai airlines fly to updated on the ongoing process to address the International Civil Aviation Organisation's |safety concerns.

"The department is substandard due to a |limited number of officers, while the number of airlines has increased five-fold in the past 10 years from 12 to 61," Prajin said, adding that only 41 were in operation and the rest inactive.

He said another urgent task was the need for the department to hire more staff such as aviation experts and that would include foreigners.

He said the department having a digital database was in sight while all airlines including national carrier Thai Airways International may need to be recertified.

"Once we able to enhance our capabilities and meet the requirement of ICAO standards, we will recertify all airlines operating in and out the Kingdom," he said.

The Japan Civil Aviation Bureau (JCAB) placing a ban on the new flight services of four Thai airlines that were certified by the department last month served as a wake-up call to highlight the chronic problem.

At least three more airlines, Asia Atlantic, Jet Asia, and Thai AirAsia X, will be affected if the issue is not resolved promptly as they plan to add more flights to Japan in May and September for a combined total of approximately 180 flights.

NokScoot, which was waiting approval to commence a new charter service to Japan, has reportedly halted the plan because of the ban.

South Korea is reportedly considering follow ing Japan's lead, after the ICAO flagged significant concerns about Thailand's aviation safety on March 20. The UN agency did not announce the concerns publicly but informed relevant countries last week.

In another blow, China has banned Asia Atlantic, NokScoot and Thai AirAsia X from launching new services in the country.

ICAO flagged the significant safety concerns following the department's sluggish response to dealing with issues in eight areas that the body first recommended it tackle back in 2005.

They include personnel licensing and training, airworthiness assessment and certification, accident investigation and airline operations oversight, according to a report by Watson Farley and Williams, an international law firm with a commercial transport practice.

Japan's decision to ban flights also affects special summer services for Thai Airways International, just at a time when scores of Thais were planming to travel to Japan over Songkran.

According to Prajin, airlines will be called to a meeting today to discuss the issue. He said a short-term measure the airlines may need engage is charting flights from other airlines.

An ad-hoc team has been set up to explain the situation to embassies and global airlines. After Japan, the next countries to be briefed will be China, Germany and Australia.

The next step will be the establishment of a committee to be chaired by Prajin.

The committee will be tasked with updating the ICAO on the measures used to tackle the eight areas of concerns every two weeks, as well as updating the prime minister once a week.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Article-44-to-be-used-to-fix-aviation-woes-30257100.html

-- The Nation 2015-03-31

The three most important points , in the view of private pilots, changes necessary for Aviation Tourism in Thailand for progress.

• The truth is there is no one set of three changes that will achieve anything close to your goals.

The minimum would be somewhere between five and seven.

Here in order of perceived importance, are the issues:-

1. Permit for Private Aircraft Using (The “5 Year Permit”)

2. Restrictions on Registration, Ownership and Usage of Aircraft

3. Administration of Pilot and Student Pilot Licensing and Validation

4. Limitation of landing sites to approved airfields

5. Blame Culture vs Safety Culture

The desired remedies are:-

1. Permit for Private Aircraft Using (The “5 Year Permit”)

◦ Scrap this and all associated legislation and regulation.

2. Restrictions on Registration, Ownership and Usage of Aircraft

◦ allow foreign ownership of aircraft

◦ allow foreign registered aircraft to operate freely

◦ allow private ownership of helicopters and amphibians

◦ allow, encourage and facilitate appropriate training in all classes of aircraft

◦ allow rental of private and uncertified aircraft

3. Administration of Pilot and Student Pilot Licensing and Validation

◦ simplify and speed up security checks on pilots and potential pilots

◦ Speed up the validation and issue process for foreign licenses

◦ speed up the issue of student pilot licenses

◦ speed up the issue of full pilot licenses

◦ Issue temporary license immediately on passing exams and flight test

◦ Credit all flying time against training requirements

◦ simplify conversion from foreign to Thai licence, with full credit for experience

◦ allow foreign licence holders to obtain and exercise instructor status

◦ allow suitably qualified pilots to perform air experience, coaching, etc.

◦ appoint PILOTS to run pilot licensing!

4. Limitation of landing sites to approved airfields

◦ allow landing anywhere, on land or water:

▪ with the landowners permission

▪ in accordance with internantionally accepted safety procedures

▪ in compliance with the priviliges of the pilots licence and ratings

▪ or at the pilots discretion in an emergency

5. Blame Culture vs Safety Culture

• cease to regard every reportable incident as a crime

• seek to establish truth and inform for safety

• avoid assignment of blame unless an actual crime has been committed

• allow pilots to accept full responsibility for their own actions

• do not punish FBOs and their customers for the actions of one pilot