US gives cautious welcome to Thailand lifting martial law

[No Apologist]

I really don't care for the views of America on another sovereign territory. They should fix their own backyard.

Martial law does not exist in the US nor do fishing slavers. Do you think Thai government would have done anything if it were not for Channel 3 and the international media. They do have problems, but Thailand has serious problems

I was going to add freedom of the press. I left the US ashamed of many things, and often deeply question how the US behaves in the world. But the point is - at the very least - I can say that, and express my feelings. Here and now in Thailand, I'm far more concerned with what only seems to be intensitying. Some of my closest friends in the world are Thai, and I've loved this country more than my own, for years now. I believe in Thailand. But the situation currently seems increasingly new ground, and I've never seen press statements like the other day's, in decades of world travel. It breaks my heart, but I think another exodus may soon be in order for the wise. Get those families somewhere safer.

Edited April 2, 2015 by No Apologist

[rijb]

Oh! The shame! Where will you go now?

[dru2]

I really don't care for the views of America on another sovereign territory. They should fix their own backyard.

Martial law does not exist in the US nor do fishing slavers. Do you think Thai government would have done anything if it were not for Channel 3 and the international media. They do have problems, but Thailand has serious problems

I was going to add freedom of the press. I left the US ashamed of many things, and often deeply question how the US behaves in the world. But the point is - at the very least - I can say that, and express my feelings. Here and now in Thailand, I'm far more concerned with what only seems to be intensitying. Some of my closest friends in the world are Thai, and I've loved this country more than my own, for years now. I believe in Thailand. But the situation currently seems increasingly new ground, and I've never seen press statements like the other day's, in decades of world travel. It breaks my heart, but I think another exodus may soon be in order for the wise. Get those families somewhere safer.

What nonsense. My family - and I - are staying here, happy in the eclipse of ignorant thugs like Natthawut, Jatuporn and Arisaman.

[No Apologist]

Oh! The shame! Where will you go now?

Away from loudmouth'ed losers who couldn't make it in their own countries, would be one nice benefit. How about Amsterdam again? Or Berlin? Paris? You know, interesting and beautiful places around the world where people like yourself would never be especially wanted by anyone. That's a long list of places, actually.

Edited April 2, 2015 by No Apologist

[No Apologist]

I really don't care for the views of America on another sovereign territory. They should fix their own backyard.

Martial law does not exist in the US nor do fishing slavers. Do you think Thai government would have done anything if it were not for Channel 3 and the international media. They do have problems, but Thailand has serious problems

I was going to add freedom of the press. I left the US ashamed of many things, and often deeply question how the US behaves in the world. But the point is - at the very least - I can say that, and express my feelings. Here and now in Thailand, I'm far more concerned with what only seems to be intensitying. Some of my closest friends in the world are Thai, and I've loved this country more than my own, for years now. I believe in Thailand. But the situation currently seems increasingly new ground, and I've never seen press statements like the other day's, in decades of world travel. It breaks my heart, but I think another exodus may soon be in order for the wise. Get those families somewhere safer.

What nonsense. My family - and I - are staying here, happy in the eclipse of ignorant thugs like Natthawut, Jatuporn and Arisaman.

And where you celebrate no freedom of speech existing for your family, apparently. I never liked the figures you mentioned either. It's just amazing what you're willing to cheer for, instead.

Edited April 2, 2015 by No Apologist

[rijb]

Oh! The shame! Where will you go now?

Away from loudmouth'ed losers who couldn't make it in their own countries, would be one nice benefit. How about Amsterdam again? Or Berlin? Paris? You know, interesting and beautiful places around the world where people like yourself would never be especially wanted by anyone. That's a long list of places, actually.

Buh Bye!

[No Apologist]

Oh! The shame! Where will you go now?

Away from loudmouth'ed losers who couldn't make it in their own countries, would be one nice benefit. How about Amsterdam again? Or Berlin? Paris? You know, interesting and beautiful places around the world where people like yourself would never be especially wanted by anyone. That's a long list of places, actually.

Buh Bye!

Your type is so easy to see through. I'm editing to leave it at that. But I do feel sorry for you, sincerely.

Edited April 2, 2015 by No Apologist

[baboon]

I really don't care for the views of America on another sovereign territory. They should fix their own backyard.

Martial law does not exist in the US nor do fishing slavers. Do you think Thai government would have done anything if it were not for Channel 3 and the international media. They do have problems, but Thailand has serious problems

America can't be all bad considering the millions who want to live there. I don't happen to be one of them, but they still must be doing something right. Perhaps some of the most vocal critics were refused a visa or something?

[peecee]

Why does it always end up in mud slinging on this forum?

[geriatrickid]

After receiving continual critical comments from USA is it any wonder that Thailand is now cosying up to China and Japan as well as joining up to the new Asian bank

What exactly is the cosying up to China or Japan going to accomplish? Japan is teetering on bankruptcy and doesn't have much excess funds to give. China has its own economic problems, and never, ever gives money without strings attached.

How many times does it need to said that Thailand depends on the EU and North America for its key exports. These are the markets that generate the much needed FX to pay for energy and scarce resource imports. The capital markets that Thailand relies upon are in the EU. What exactly is China going to provide to Thailand? Chinese manufactured hard goods? Ok. And how would Thailand pay for that? What are the key manufactured goods, the big money makers Thailand exports to China? It's mostly raw materials that China converts and sells back to Thailand. Big contrast with the EU and North America who purchase Thai manufactured goods as well as agricultural products.

Thailand is a country where people are walking around with their 500 baht copies of Samsung and iPhone. It's the country where counterfeit drugs are widespread. The concept of intellectual property or original scientific thought is foreign. The wealthy will still rush to the USA or EU or Australia when there is a cutting edge medical treatment. No hiso family is going to send their child prodigy to We Copy U. The USa and the EU are NOT worried about Thailand kissing China's ass, because Vietnam is ascending and Myanmar is looking for alternatives to China and India. Push the USA into a corner and it will embrace Myanmar such that Thailand will have conniptions. As it is, the USA's key allies are ramping up their contacts and presence with Vietnam. Ever wonder why, Canadian and Australian naval vessels, and military attaches are in and out of Vietnam, but not Thailand? The USA isn't acting alone.

Edited April 2, 2015 by geriatrickid

[winstonc]

Before the US cautious welcomes anything, may I suggest, they read the following quote twice!!

>>In its place, though, the junta invoked a special security measure called Article 44 in the military-imposed interim constitution that gives Prayuth the power to override any branch of government in the name of national security, and absolves him of any legal responsibility for his actions.<<

point taken but the same us government that invoked national security on refusing a mexican lawyer to give evidence on 2.500 guns going to mexico from arizona..because the dea was in cahoots with the cartels..no double standards here though eh...FACT

[Your Thainess]

"It is important that any new security measure end the practice of trying civilians in military courts, end detention without charge, and allow individuals to freely exercise fundamental rights, including the rights of freedom of expression and peaceful assembly," the statement late Wednesday added.

"We are concerned that moving to a security order under Article 44 will not accomplish any of these objectives. We would welcome the actual, full restoration of civil liberties in Thailand," it said.

With this statement, the USA is clearly interfering in the internal issues of Thailand and the AFP is incredibly biased in reporting it.

Look, the military in Thailand has illegally taken control of the country (again). The US, as a close ally, has a right and a duty to point out that the actions of the junta are counterproductive not only to the protection of the rights of the people of Thailand, but to Thailand's alliance with the US and the West. Coups may be business as usual in Thailand, but equating advice with interference is a bit much.

[dru2]

"It is important that any new security measure end the practice of trying civilians in military courts, end detention without charge, and allow individuals to freely exercise fundamental rights, including the rights of freedom of expression and peaceful assembly," the statement late Wednesday added.

"We are concerned that moving to a security order under Article 44 will not accomplish any of these objectives. We would welcome the actual, full restoration of civil liberties in Thailand," it said.

With this statement, the USA is clearly interfering in the internal issues of Thailand and the AFP is incredibly biased in reporting it.

Look, the military in Thailand has illegally taken control of the country (again). The US, as a close ally, has a right and a duty to point out that the actions of the junta are counterproductive not only to the protection of the rights of the people of Thailand, but to Thailand's alliance with the US and the West. Coups may be business as usual in Thailand, but equating advice with interference is a bit much.

Unless, of course, it's Egypt.

[dru2]

What nonsense. My family - and I - are staying here, happy in the eclipse of ignorant thugs like Natthawut, Jatuporn and Arisaman.

And where you celebrate no freedom of speech existing for your family, apparently. I never liked the figures you mentioned either. It's just amazing what you're willing to cheer for, instead.

I didn't notice that I was cheering for anyone or anything. I just want to state that I feel very safe and that I intend to stay here, with my family.

Edited April 2, 2015 by dru2

[jayboy]

The Guardian has a robust take:

http://gu.com/p/477hh/stw

[Your Thainess]

"It is important that any new security measure end the practice of trying civilians in military courts, end detention without charge, and allow individuals to freely exercise fundamental rights, including the rights of freedom of expression and peaceful assembly," the statement late Wednesday added.

"We are concerned that moving to a security order under Article 44 will not accomplish any of these objectives. We would welcome the actual, full restoration of civil liberties in Thailand," it said.

With this statement, the USA is clearly interfering in the internal issues of Thailand and the AFP is incredibly biased in reporting it.

Look, the military in Thailand has illegally taken control of the country (again). The US, as a close ally, has a right and a duty to point out that the actions of the junta are counterproductive not only to the protection of the rights of the people of Thailand, but to Thailand's alliance with the US and the West. Coups may be business as usual in Thailand, but equating advice with interference is a bit much.

Unless, of course, it's Egypt.

May I refer you to the following chart, in order to better classify your comment: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/

[mutha289]

Does the lifting of martial law mean that you can now post something on facebook and not be liable for a 50 year jail term?

[No Apologist]

Does the lifting of martial law mean that you can now post something on facebook and not be liable for a 50 year jail term?

Quite the oppostie, strangely.

[TomJoad]

There are MANY WAYS to restore order in a true democracy. In America we tend to retire our war criminals and let them finger-paint down in Texas. Keeps 'em out of trouble that way.

BTW...I hear he's doing another nice portrait of Vladimir Putin, this time in his KGB uniform. We're all looking forward to seeing that one.

[tbthailand]

"It is important that any new security measure end the practice of trying civilians in military courts, end detention without charge, and allow individuals to freely exercise fundamental rights, including the rights of freedom of expression and peaceful assembly," the statement late Wednesday added.

"We are concerned that moving to a security order under Article 44 will not accomplish any of these objectives. We would welcome the actual, full restoration of civil liberties in Thailand," it said.

With this statement, the USA is clearly interfering in the internal issues of Thailand and the AFP is incredibly biased in reporting it.

Look, the military in Thailand has illegally taken control of the country (again). The US, as a close ally, has a right and a duty to point out that the actions of the junta are counterproductive not only to the protection of the rights of the people of Thailand, but to Thailand's alliance with the US and the West. Coups may be business as usual in Thailand, but equating advice with interference is a bit much.

I agree with you completely...

That is me ROTFLMAO with a post lampooning what some posters - in all seriousness - actually say and believe.

[MadDog2020]

It's simply a case of be careful what you ask for.......you may get it.

[willyumiii]

After receiving continual critical comments from USA is it any wonder that Thailand is now cosying up to China and Japan as well as joining up to the new Asian bank

And you think the U.S. should be giving Thailand praise for a military overthrow of an elected government and taking away the rights of it's people..including the right to elect a government?

I understand why that China may be pleased about this, but not the U.S..

[willyumiii]

I really don't care for the views of America on another sovereign territory. They should fix their own backyard.

good advice, please go sort out your own life before criticizing the US.

I agree.

The U.s has a few weeds in their back yard and the lawn is not as green as it once was, but , the US still has the best yard on the block. It is still the world leader in yard maintenance and overall health......now, let's look over your fence into your back yard!

[yellowboat]

I really don't care for the views of America on another sovereign territory. They should fix their own backyard.

good advice, please go sort out your own life before criticizing the US.

I agree.

The U.s has a few weeds in their back yard and the lawn is not as green as it once was, but , the US still has the best yard on the block. It is still the world leader in yard maintenance and overall health......now, let's look over your fence into your back yard!

The US had the best yard on the block. It now ranks #20 in personal freedoms. Taiwan is a better example, as it is free and a home grown, Asian democracy that gets FAR TOO LITTLE PRAISE. Let's not waive the American flag where others are far more deservant

[NHF]

I really don't care for the views of America on another sovereign territory.

They should fix their own backyard.

I think another exodus may soon be in order for the wise. Get those families somewhere safer.

[scorecard]

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Every press release of US, Europe, Human Rights Groups and interested parties available has called the sham removal of martial law and replacement with article 44's dictatorial powers for what it is. Some with cautious language and others directly nailing it.

And yet the usual suspects on this board continue to try to change the subject or other supercilious couching of opinion denying what's going down.

Denying what's going on.

It's you that needs to realize what's going on, and make some pragmatic realization of what Thailand would be today if there wasn't an intervention.

[billd766]

"It is important that any new security measure end the practice of trying civilians in military courts, end detention without charge, and allow individuals to freely exercise fundamental rights, including the rights of freedom of expression and peaceful assembly," the statement late Wednesday added.

"We are concerned that moving to a security order under Article 44 will not accomplish any of these objectives. We would welcome the actual, full restoration of civil liberties in Thailand," it said.

With this statement, the USA is clearly interfering in the internal issues of Thailand and the AFP is incredibly biased in reporting it.

Look, the military in Thailand has illegally taken control of the country (again). The US, as a close ally, has a right and a duty to point out that the actions of the junta are counterproductive not only to the protection of the rights of the people of Thailand, but to Thailand's alliance with the US and the West. Coups may be business as usual in Thailand, but equating advice with interference is a bit much.

You may not have noticed but this government IS legitimate and was approved by the King of Thailand.

Thailand is NOT a state of the USA though it is an ally. Likewise the USA has NO right or duty to interfere in the internal affairs of any country. Do you remember Iraq under Saddam Hussain, that was an ally of the USA too and they didn't take the "advice" of the USA either.

Advice from friend to friend is usually done quietly in the background not loudly and upfront which can often be misinterpreted as interference.

Edited April 4, 2015 by billd766

[scorecard]

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Before the US cautious welcomes anything, may I suggest, they read the following quote twice!!

>>In its place, though, the junta invoked a special security measure called Article 44 in the military-imposed interim constitution that gives Prayuth the power to override any branch of government in the name of national security, and absolves him of any legal responsibility for his actions.<<

Well JOC no doubt you would be in favor full removal of controls and therefore open the flood gates for the UDD etc to run amuk and deliberately destroy all attempts at desperately needed reforms, quite possibly involving more violence.

No doubt you and a few others would clap your hands.

Press on dear general.

desperately needed reforms

do you really believe the fairy tale about reforms?

Just asking...

That Thailand needs to make changes is obvious. I don't know any country that doesn't and in fact change (hopefully for the better but not always) is a continuous process.

But it is blatantly obvious that this junta is not about "reforms" or "reconciliation" or "justice" in the way that any normal person would define those terms.

"

do you really believe the fairy tale about reforms?

Just asking...

That Thailand needs to make changes is obvious. I don't know any country that doesn't and in fact change (hopefully for the better but not always) is a continuous process."

So that infers you would be OK with the continuation of most recent previous government, a dictator government (not a democracy at all), blatantly corrupt as hell and with no attempt to hide their massive corruption, full of totally incapable and highly immoral cronies running the show, all yes men (in fact not allowed to voice an opinion), a dictatorship which had make quite some progress at achieving a situation where it would be impossible to vote them out.

And perhaps you'd like to list the fairy tales who refer to.

(But I'll assume in advance that you won't mention any of the items which are making good progress on the long and bumpy road to sustainable and valuable change.)

[tbthailand]

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Before the US cautious welcomes anything, may I suggest, they read the following quote twice!!

>>In its place, though, the junta invoked a special security measure called Article 44 in the military-imposed interim constitution that gives Prayuth the power to override any branch of government in the name of national security, and absolves him of any legal responsibility for his actions.<<

Well JOC no doubt you would be in favor full removal of controls and therefore open the flood gates for the UDD etc to run amuk and deliberately destroy all attempts at desperately needed reforms, quite possibly involving more violence.

No doubt you and a few others would clap your hands.

Press on dear general.

desperately needed reforms

do you really believe the fairy tale about reforms?

Just asking...

That Thailand needs to make changes is obvious. I don't know any country that doesn't and in fact change (hopefully for the better but not always) is a continuous process.

But it is blatantly obvious that this junta is not about "reforms" or "reconciliation" or "justice" in the way that any normal person would define those terms.

"

do you really believe the fairy tale about reforms?

Just asking...

That Thailand needs to make changes is obvious. I don't know any country that doesn't and in fact change (hopefully for the better but not always) is a continuous process."

So that infers you would be OK with the continuation of most recent previous government, a dictator government (not a democracy at all), blatantly corrupt as hell and with no attempt to hide their massive corruption, full of totally incapable and highly immoral cronies running the show, all yes men (in fact not allowed to voice an opinion), a dictatorship which had make quite some progress at achieving a situation where it would be impossible to vote them out.

And perhaps you'd like to list the fairy tales who refer to.

(But I'll assume in advance that you won't mention any of the items which are making good progress on the long and bumpy road to sustainable and valuable change.)

the previous government was many things, but it was not a dictator government, sorry, first come down to earth and then we'll talk.

I am for a constitutional system of self-government for the Thai people. The last military constitution allowed for that in certain ways albeit with many levers for the elite/military to pull and to provide them control over any elected government.

I am not for replacing any constitutional form of self-government with a military one or any other non-democratic form of government.

You inference indicates that you were concerned with the abilities of the last government and also concerned with corruption... who wasn't? The point is that incompetence and corruption in any democracy (and it exists in ample supply in every democracy) should be dealt with by the voters and by law, respectively.

What in your opinion is valuable and sustainable change? What I see is the military doing the same thing they have done for decades... It is the opposite of change, much less valuable and sustainable change.

Next, I think there is a big difference between good or bad governance and democratic or autocratic governance. We all want good governance. I am wiling to fight like he11 for good governance, but I am not willing to cede democratic governance to autocratic governance.

Finally the fairy tale - this all comes down to the true motivation for this 'intervention'. If you believe the public line of stopping a civil war and adapting the PDRC platform of reforms, then you will believe the fairy tale. I feel that the true reasons for the 'intervention' surround the problem of maintaining a certain configuration in the elite/military alliance which has ruled this country essentially without interruption since 1932. By definition, this point of view defines the current reforms as a fairy tale.